* Splitting gnus.texi (was: Split man directory) [not found] ` <87fy1ut4hp.fsf@jurta.org> @ 2007-09-24 17:10 ` Reiner Steib 2007-09-25 10:44 ` Richard Stallman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2007-09-24 17:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Juri Linkov; +Cc: ding, emacs-devel On Wed, Sep 05 2007, Juri Linkov wrote: > Some manuals are very large (e.g. calc.texi, gnus.texi). It makes sense > to create a separate directory under doc/ for packages with large manuals > and split these manuals to smaller files. It might make sense to make a separate directory for Gnus manual files (in current Gnus trunk: gnus-coding, gnus-news, gnus-faq, gnus) or Gnus-related files (the former plus message, sasl, emacs-mime, pgg and sieve). But what would be the benefit of splitting gnus.texi into several files? Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting gnus.texi (was: Split man directory) 2007-09-24 17:10 ` Splitting gnus.texi (was: Split man directory) Reiner Steib @ 2007-09-25 10:44 ` Richard Stallman 2007-09-26 0:23 ` Splitting gnus.texi Katsumi Yamaoka 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2007-09-25 10:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Reiner Steib; +Cc: juri, emacs-devel, ding It would be good to split gnus.texi into 10 to 15 files just because it is so big. Similar for calc.texi. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting gnus.texi 2007-09-25 10:44 ` Richard Stallman @ 2007-09-26 0:23 ` Katsumi Yamaoka 2007-09-26 6:07 ` Reiner Steib 2007-09-26 8:55 ` Juri Linkov 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Katsumi Yamaoka @ 2007-09-26 0:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: juri, ding, Reiner Steib, emacs-devel >>>>> Richard Stallman wrote: > It would be good to split gnus.texi into 10 to 15 files > just because it is so big. Similar for calc.texi. At least for gnus.texi, I don't see the benefit of splitting. It's indeed big, but is not too big to edit with Emacs. Rather, I cannot ignore a disadvantage of splitting it. I sometimes write in it. Since various Gnus functions are related mutually, I frequently check other items concerned when I write something. For example, when I write description about nntp, I have to check whether my writing does not conflict with descriptions of other sections. When I hesitate whether I should add @vindex for the nntp-foo-bar variable, I scan the whole gnus.texi. I do also it when I examine it should be @acronym{NNTP}, @code{nntp}, or NNTP. Now I only need to type `C-s nntp' for them. But if gnus.texi is split into 10 to 15 files, it will be quite troublesome. I can agree with splitting if it is very useful to users, though. Regards, ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting gnus.texi 2007-09-26 0:23 ` Splitting gnus.texi Katsumi Yamaoka @ 2007-09-26 6:07 ` Reiner Steib 2007-09-30 20:50 ` Giorgos Keramidas 2007-09-26 8:55 ` Juri Linkov 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2007-09-26 6:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Katsumi Yamaoka; +Cc: juri, rms, ding, emacs-devel On Wed, Sep 26 2007, Katsumi Yamaoka wrote: >>>>>> Richard Stallman wrote: > >> It would be good to split gnus.texi into 10 to 15 files >> just because it is so big. Similar for calc.texi. > > At least for gnus.texi, I don't see the benefit of splitting. > It's indeed big, but is not too big to edit with Emacs. Rather, > I cannot ignore a disadvantage of splitting it. I sometimes > write in it. Since various Gnus functions are related mutually, > I frequently check other items concerned when I write something. > [...] But if gnus.texi is split into 10 to 15 files, it will be > quite troublesome. > > I can agree with splitting if it is very useful to users, though. Additionally, splitting destroys CVS annovate (vc-annotoate). I also see no problem with the size. Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting gnus.texi 2007-09-26 6:07 ` Reiner Steib @ 2007-09-30 20:50 ` Giorgos Keramidas 2007-09-30 21:34 ` Reiner Steib 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Giorgos Keramidas @ 2007-09-30 20:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Katsumi Yamaoka, rms, juri, ding, emacs-devel On 2007-09-26 08:07, Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> wrote: >On Wed, Sep 26 2007, Katsumi Yamaoka wrote: >>>>>>> Richard Stallman wrote: >> >>> It would be good to split gnus.texi into 10 to 15 files >>> just because it is so big. Similar for calc.texi. >> >> At least for gnus.texi, I don't see the benefit of splitting. >> It's indeed big, but is not too big to edit with Emacs. Rather, >> I cannot ignore a disadvantage of splitting it. I sometimes >> write in it. Since various Gnus functions are related mutually, >> I frequently check other items concerned when I write something. >> [...] But if gnus.texi is split into 10 to 15 files, it will be >> quite troublesome. >> >> I can agree with splitting if it is very useful to users, though. > > Additionally, splitting destroys CVS annovate (vc-annotoate). I also > see no problem with the size. This doesn't have to be the result of splitting. The files may be 'repo-copied' by one of the CVS admins, creating let's say 3 files: gnus.texi gnus-news.texi gnus-email.texi These files can then be 'trimmed' with a normal commit, and the trimmed text becomes a changeset of its own. This way 'cvs annotate' will still show useful information. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting gnus.texi 2007-09-30 20:50 ` Giorgos Keramidas @ 2007-09-30 21:34 ` Reiner Steib 2007-09-30 21:46 ` Giorgos Keramidas 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2007-09-30 21:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Giorgos Keramidas; +Cc: ding, emacs-devel On Sun, Sep 30 2007, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On 2007-09-26 08:07, Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> wrote: >> Additionally, splitting destroys CVS annovate (vc-annotoate). I also >> see no problem with the size. > > This doesn't have to be the result of splitting. The files may be > 'repo-copied' by one of the CVS admins, creating let's say 3 files: > > gnus.texi > gnus-news.texi > gnus-email.texi > > These files can then be 'trimmed' with a normal commit, and the trimmed > text becomes a changeset of its own. This way 'cvs annotate' will still > show useful information. ... but e.g. "cvs ... co -r v5-10 gnus" will create bogus gnus-*.texi files. This is a no-no. Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting gnus.texi 2007-09-30 21:34 ` Reiner Steib @ 2007-09-30 21:46 ` Giorgos Keramidas 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Giorgos Keramidas @ 2007-09-30 21:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding, emacs-devel On 2007-09-30 23:34, Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> wrote: >On Sun, Sep 30 2007, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: >> On 2007-09-26 08:07, Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> wrote: >>> Additionally, splitting destroys CVS annovate (vc-annotoate). I also >>> see no problem with the size. >> >> This doesn't have to be the result of splitting. The files may be >> 'repo-copied' by one of the CVS admins, creating let's say 3 files: >> >> gnus.texi >> gnus-news.texi >> gnus-email.texi >> >> These files can then be 'trimmed' with a normal commit, and the trimmed >> text becomes a changeset of its own. This way 'cvs annotate' will still >> show useful information. > > ... but e.g. "cvs ... co -r v5-10 gnus" will create bogus gnus-*.texi > files. This is a no-no. Indeed, or someone has to go through the 'copies' and delete the tags which are no longer relevant. I understand that this is just an "ugly hack", so let's avoid it if there isn't a very good reason to split `gnus.texi' :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Splitting gnus.texi 2007-09-26 0:23 ` Splitting gnus.texi Katsumi Yamaoka 2007-09-26 6:07 ` Reiner Steib @ 2007-09-26 8:55 ` Juri Linkov 2007-09-26 18:14 ` Directory doc/gnus in Emacs CVS (was: Splitting gnus.texi) Reiner Steib 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Juri Linkov @ 2007-09-26 8:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Katsumi Yamaoka; +Cc: ding, rms, Reiner.Steib, emacs-devel > At least for gnus.texi, I don't see the benefit of splitting. > It's indeed big, but is not too big to edit with Emacs. Rather, > I cannot ignore a disadvantage of splitting it. I sometimes > write in it. Since various Gnus functions are related mutually, > I frequently check other items concerned when I write something. > For example, when I write description about nntp, I have to check > whether my writing does not conflict with descriptions of other > sections. When I hesitate whether I should add @vindex for the > nntp-foo-bar variable, I scan the whole gnus.texi. I do also it > when I examine it should be @acronym{NNTP}, @code{nntp}, or NNTP. > Now I only need to type `C-s nntp' for them. But if gnus.texi is > split into 10 to 15 files, it will be quite troublesome. We can improve C-s to search a collection of files, but this is not implemented yet. > I can agree with splitting if it is very useful to users, though. This is intended for developers. So if developers think this is not useful then there is no need to split it. I proposed splitting only because source files for the Emacs manual are split into several texi files. However, I see no clear benefits of splitting. Rather we could take the suggestion of Reiner and put gnus-coding, gnus-news, gnus-faq, gnus, message, sasl, emacs-mime, pgg and sieve into a new `gnus' subdirectory. -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Directory doc/gnus in Emacs CVS (was: Splitting gnus.texi) 2007-09-26 8:55 ` Juri Linkov @ 2007-09-26 18:14 ` Reiner Steib 2007-10-20 22:33 ` Directory doc/gnus in Emacs CVS Bill Wohler 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2007-09-26 18:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Juri Linkov; +Cc: Katsumi Yamaoka, rms, ding, emacs-devel On Wed, Sep 26 2007, Juri Linkov wrote: >> I can agree with splitting if it is very useful to users, though. > > This is intended for developers. So if developers think this is > not useful then there is no need to split it. > > I proposed splitting only because source files for the Emacs manual are > split into several texi files. However, I see no clear benefits > of splitting. Me neither. > Rather we could take the suggestion of Reiner and put gnus-coding, > gnus-news, gnus-faq, gnus, message, sasl, emacs-mime, pgg and sieve > into a new `gnus' subdirectory. For the record some explanations about these files: - gnus*.el are (parts of) core Gnus manuals. - Message:(message). Composing messages. - Emacs-MIME:(emacs-mime). Composing messages; MIME-specific parts. Both are supposed to be independent from Gnus. Alas it they are not anymore. emacs-mime is also used by MH-E. AFAICS, the MH-E manual describes the relevant MH-E specific stuff and has some references to the emacs-mime and Gnus manual. - Sieve:(sieve). Managing Sieve scripts in Emacs. - PGG:(pgg). PGP/MIME with Gnus. - SASL:(sasl). SASL authentication in Emacs. These are independent from Gnus. It would be fine with me to include those in a separate doc/gnus directory. But maybe the authors Simon Josefsson (sieve) and Daiki Ueno (pgg and sasl) would prefer to have them in doc/misc. Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Directory doc/gnus in Emacs CVS 2007-09-26 18:14 ` Directory doc/gnus in Emacs CVS (was: Splitting gnus.texi) Reiner Steib @ 2007-10-20 22:33 ` Bill Wohler 2007-10-21 9:37 ` Reiner Steib 2007-10-21 16:26 ` Richard Stallman 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Bill Wohler @ 2007-10-20 22:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel; +Cc: ding Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes: > For the record some explanations about these files: > > - gnus*.el are (parts of) core Gnus manuals. > > - Message:(message). Composing messages. > - Emacs-MIME:(emacs-mime). Composing messages; MIME-specific parts. > > Both are supposed to be independent from Gnus. Alas it they are not > anymore. emacs-mime is also used by MH-E. AFAICS, the MH-E manual > describes the relevant MH-E specific stuff and has some references to > the emacs-mime and Gnus manual. Yes, we (MH-E) have some cross-references as you describe. What is the effect on our cross-references of putting these manuals in a gnus sub-directory? Would the cross-references still work in both Emacs 22.2 and pre-Emacs 22.2 environments? Sorry for the long delay, but work and summer activities have kept me away. -- Bill Wohler <wohler@newt.com> http://www.newt.com/wohler/ GnuPG ID:610BD9AD ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Directory doc/gnus in Emacs CVS 2007-10-20 22:33 ` Directory doc/gnus in Emacs CVS Bill Wohler @ 2007-10-21 9:37 ` Reiner Steib 2007-10-21 16:26 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2007-10-21 9:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bill Wohler; +Cc: ding, emacs-devel On Sun, Oct 21 2007, Bill Wohler wrote: > Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes: > >> For the record some explanations about these files: >> >> - gnus*.el are (parts of) core Gnus manuals. >> >> - Message:(message). Composing messages. >> - Emacs-MIME:(emacs-mime). Composing messages; MIME-specific parts. >> >> Both are supposed to be independent from Gnus. Alas it they are not >> anymore. emacs-mime is also used by MH-E. AFAICS, the MH-E manual >> describes the relevant MH-E specific stuff and has some references to >> the emacs-mime and Gnus manual. > > Yes, we (MH-E) have some cross-references as you describe. What is the > effect on our cross-references of putting these manuals in a gnus > sub-directory? Would the cross-references still work in both Emacs > 22.2 and pre-Emacs 22.2 environments? There's no effect because the resulting info files would still be installed in the standard directory. It's just about re-organizing the *.texi files. Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Directory doc/gnus in Emacs CVS 2007-10-20 22:33 ` Directory doc/gnus in Emacs CVS Bill Wohler 2007-10-21 9:37 ` Reiner Steib @ 2007-10-21 16:26 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2007-10-21 16:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bill Wohler; +Cc: emacs-devel, ding Is it possible to make Emacs-MIME work with M-x mail? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2007-10-21 16:26 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <E1IPj9V-0003Yo-MM@fencepost.gnu.org> [not found] ` <mxejhjdrqs.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> [not found] ` <E1IRYNh-0003dG-Sc@fencepost.gnu.org> [not found] ` <jer6lh2f4e.fsf@sykes.suse.de> [not found] ` <E1ISGc3-000624-G9@fencepost.gnu.org> [not found] ` <izlkbnk2us.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> [not found] ` <87fy1v36be.fsf@neutrino.caeruleus.net> [not found] ` <u3axvv8rp.fsf@gnu.org> [not found] ` <E1ISbWd-00074O-HB@fencepost.gnu.org> [not found] ` <87fy1ut4hp.fsf@jurta.org> 2007-09-24 17:10 ` Splitting gnus.texi (was: Split man directory) Reiner Steib 2007-09-25 10:44 ` Richard Stallman 2007-09-26 0:23 ` Splitting gnus.texi Katsumi Yamaoka 2007-09-26 6:07 ` Reiner Steib 2007-09-30 20:50 ` Giorgos Keramidas 2007-09-30 21:34 ` Reiner Steib 2007-09-30 21:46 ` Giorgos Keramidas 2007-09-26 8:55 ` Juri Linkov 2007-09-26 18:14 ` Directory doc/gnus in Emacs CVS (was: Splitting gnus.texi) Reiner Steib 2007-10-20 22:33 ` Directory doc/gnus in Emacs CVS Bill Wohler 2007-10-21 9:37 ` Reiner Steib 2007-10-21 16:26 ` Richard Stallman
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