Gnus and GroupLens

Gnus and GroupLens

[David Allen]

Just upgraded to September Gnus 0.40 (from 5.0.9) + GroupLens
(gnus-gl.el v2.5).  I like both!  Thanks all.

XEmacs 19.13.

Two problems:

1) When trying to enter a GroupLens enhanced group I get

Symbol's function definition is void: make-local-hook

I see this is also used in custom.el, but protected by

(if (fboundp 'make-local-hook))

Presumably this function is not in XEmacs (yet).

Retrying seems to (usually) enter the group successfully.


2) Trying to enter the group the next day fails with timeout errors,
presumably retrieving the GroupLens scores.  Quitting and restarting
Gnus fixed this.

David

P.S. My XEmacs memory problems mean I need to restart about every 2
days--when the memory usage exceeds about 35Mb.  This is probably more
due to a 1.8Mb tags file and a lot of font-locked buffers than Gnus.

--
David Allen (davida@lsl.co.uk)		   Laser-Scan Ltd, 
Principal Software Engineer		   Science Park, Milton Road
Tel: 01223 420414   Fax: 01223 420044      Cambridge, CB4 4FY, UK

Re: Gnus and GroupLens

[Brad Miller]

>>>>> "David" == David Allen <davida@lsl.co.uk> writes:

David> Just upgraded to September Gnus 0.40 (from 5.0.9) + GroupLens
David> (gnus-gl.el v2.5).  I like both!  Thanks all.

David> XEmacs 19.13.

David> Two problems:

David> 1) When trying to enter a GroupLens enhanced group I get
David> Symbol's function definition is void: make-local-hook
David> I see this is also used in custom.el, but protected by
David> (if (fboundp 'make-local-hook))
David> Presumably this function is not in XEmacs (yet).
David> Retrying seems to (usually) enter the group successfully.

Hmmm, But I have my doubts about whether your ratings are actually
getting sent to the BBB when you exit the group.....
You may want to use:
(add-hook 'gnus-exit-group-hook 'bbb-put-ratings)
until I fix this properly.

make-local-hook, is supported in xemacs-19.14

David> 2) Trying to enter the group the next day fails with timeout errors,
David> presumably retrieving the GroupLens scores.  Quitting and restarting
David> Gnus fixed this.

The BBB has a three hour inactivity timer on your login token.  If you
haven't sent any ratings or received any predictions for more than 3
hours, you should see a message telling you to log-in.  Just M-x
bbb-login will do the trick.

\Brad
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brad Miller                    | e-mail: bmiller@cs.umn.edu
University of Minnesota        | phone:  (612) 626-8396     
Department of Computer Science | www:    http://www.cs.umn.edu/~bmiller
EE/CS 5-244                    | 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Gnus and GroupLens

[David Allen]

>>>>> "Brad" == Brad Miller <bmiller@cs.umn.edu> writes:

>>>>> "David" == David Allen <davida@lsl.co.uk> writes:
    David> Two problems:

    David> 1) When trying to enter a GroupLens enhanced group I get
    David> Symbol's function definition is void: make-local-hook I see
    David> this is also used in custom.el, but protected by (if
    David> (fboundp 'make-local-hook)) Presumably this function is not
    David> in XEmacs (yet).  Retrying seems to (usually) enter the
    David> group successfully.

    Brad> Hmmm, But I have my doubts about whether your ratings are
    Brad> actually getting sent to the BBB when you exit the
    Brad> group.....  You may want to use: (add-hook
    Brad> 'gnus-exit-group-hook 'bbb-put-ratings) until I fix this
    Brad> properly.

Well, it says "Sending Ratings...Done" when I quit the group.  I don't
know that I can check whether they are actually getting there.

    Brad> make-local-hook, is supported in xemacs-19.14

Roll on the day ...

    David> 2) Trying to enter the group the next day fails with
    David> timeout errors, presumably retrieving the GroupLens scores.
    David> Quitting and restarting Gnus fixed this.

    Brad> The BBB has a three hour inactivity timer on your login
    Brad> token.  If you haven't sent any ratings or received any
    Brad> predictions for more than 3 hours, you should see a message
    Brad> telling you to log-in.  Just M-x bbb-login will do the
    Brad> trick.

OK.  The symptoms I were seeing involved a message that mentioned
timeout that was very quickly overwritten so I wasn't sure what had
happened.  I'll check this out next time it times out.

Interestingly, the first day I started using GroupLens, most of the
articles in the GroupLens groups had predictions.  Today, none of the
new articles seem to have predictions (I can still see the predictions
for old articles).

Presumably, with GroupLens you should be able to read only articles
with high predictions (plus any you might select for other reasons).
You will then only be rating a relatively small number of articles.
Do you expect that with a large user community, each user will only
need to rate a very small percentage of articles but there will still
be enough ratings for the system to work well?

Again, thanks for GroupLens.

David

--
David Allen (davida@lsl.co.uk)		   Laser-Scan Ltd, 
Principal Software Engineer		   Science Park, Milton Road
Tel: 01223 420414   Fax: 01223 420044      Cambridge, CB4 4FY, UK

Re: Gnus and GroupLens

[Brad Miller]

>>>>> "David" == David Allen <davida@lsl.co.uk> writes:

>>>>> "Brad" == Brad Miller <bmiller@cs.umn.edu> writes:
>>>>> "David" == David Allen <davida@lsl.co.uk> writes:

David> Well, it says "Sending Ratings...Done" when I quit the group.  I don't
David> know that I can check whether they are actually getting there.

The trace buffer is called trace of BBB session to grouplens.cs....
you can look at this buffer and see if you got an
OK
receved messages

at the bottom, after your list of message-ids and ratings.

Brad> The BBB has a three hour inactivity timer on your login
Brad> token.  If you haven't sent any ratings or received any
Brad> predictions for more than 3 hours, you should see a message
Brad> telling you to log-in.  Just M-x bbb-login will do the
Brad> trick.

David> OK.  The symptoms I were seeing involved a message that mentioned
David> timeout that was very quickly overwritten so I wasn't sure what had
David> happened.  I'll check this out next time it times out.

David> Interestingly, the first day I started using GroupLens, most of the
David> articles in the GroupLens groups had predictions.  Today, none of the
David> new articles seem to have predictions (I can still see the predictions
David> for old articles).

David> Presumably, with GroupLens you should be able to read only articles
David> with high predictions (plus any you might select for other reasons).
David> You will then only be rating a relatively small number of articles.
David> Do you expect that with a large user community, each user will only
David> need to rate a very small percentage of articles but there will still
David> be enough ratings for the system to work well?

That is the theory.  For really high volume groups, I expect that
GroupLens will need at least a hundred people reading and rating, to
keep a good mix of rated articles.  A thousand would be even better.

Some days are definitely going to be better than others.  For example in
comp.lang.java we had a couple days in a row where there were over 500
ratings entered.  I just checked the stats now, and there were only
16 ratings in the last 24 hours.  You can check these stats off the
GroupLens homepage http://www.cs.umn.edu/Research/GroupLens/stats/daily.html

Getting GroupLens past the critical mass point seems to be our most
challenging problem right now.   There are several issues involved here:
   - Publicity
   - The number of supported newsreaders (including the total lack of a
     Windows newsreader)
   - The ability of the average user to install a special version
     of a newsreader just for GroupLens 
   - Getting users to change their behavior, and remember to rate the
     articles as they are read.

I'm sure there are other factors at work too.  I'm open to any ideas on
how to get more people using GroupLens.   

\Brad
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brad Miller                    | e-mail: bmiller@cs.umn.edu
University of Minnesota        | phone:  (612) 626-8396     
Department of Computer Science | www:    http://www.cs.umn.edu/~bmiller
EE/CS 5-244                    | 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Gnus and GroupLens

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

bmiller@cs.umn.edu (Brad Miller) writes:

> Getting GroupLens past the critical mass point seems to be our most
> challenging problem right now.   There are several issues involved here:
>    - Publicity

I think you should definitely do a few more announcements on the
news.* groups, the various newsreader groups, and the groups that are
GroupLens enhanced.

>    - The ability of the average user to install a special version
>      of a newsreader just for GroupLens 

How did the xrn and trn (those were the other two newsreades that are
supperted, right?) maintainers react to GroupLens?  I think GroupLens
is very exciting, and could potentially revolutionize Usenet.  

Oh, and I've been meaning to ask you:  Would it be possible to sign
the copyright of gnus-gl.el over to the FSF?  Then it would definitely
be included in, uhm, Emacs 19.32.

-- 
  "Yes.  The journey through the human heart 
     would have to wait until some other time."