time to turn this off yet?

time to turn this off yet?

[Wes Hardaker]

So, uh, my quest to know everything about Lars has gone on for a while 
now...  Should I turn it off yet?  (heh)

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen - Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
            net: larsi@gnus.org, bugs@gnus.org, larsi@ifi.uio.no, lmi@gnus.org
  creation-date: 24 Apr 1997
      timestamp: 02 Dec 1998
         Mailer: Quassia Gnus v0.19/XEmacs 19.15
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     newsgroups: gnu.emacs.gnus
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                 comp.emacs.xemacs,gnu.emacs.gnus
     Newsreader: Gnus/5.07006 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.60) XEmacs/21.2(beta3) (Aglaia)
        country: Norway
     Books-Read: Stephen Jay Goulds _Hønsetenner og hestetær_
                 Paul Auster's _Smoke & Blue in the Face_
                 Jane Smiley's _At Paradise Gate_
                 Mary Doria Russell's _Children of God_
                 Amy Hempel's _Reasons to Live_
                 C. J. Cherry's _Finity's End_
                 Ursula K. Le Guin & Virginia Kidd (ed.)'s _Interfaces_
                 Dorothy L. Sayers' _Unnatural Death_
                 Janet Frame's _The Carpathians_
                 nothing
                 Octavia Butler's _Survivor_
                 Elizabeth Hand's _Waking the Moon_
                 Paul Auster's _Translations_
                 Greg Bear's _Slant_
   Albums-Owned: Kraftwerk's _Concert Classics_: "Autobahn"
                 Squarepusher's _Music Is Rotted One Note_: "My Sound"
                 Depeche Mode's _101_: "stripped"
                 Joni Mitchell's _Taming the Tiger_: "Man From Mars"
                 Andrea Parker's _DJ-Kicks_: "Gescom - Puzl"
                 Andrea Parker's _DJ-Kicks_: "Man Parrish - Hip Hop Be Bop (Don't Stop)"
                 Andrea Parker's _DJ-Kicks_: "C.O.D. - In The Bottle"
                 Andrea Parker's _DJ-Kicks_: "Two Sandwiches Short Of A Lunchbox - Too Good To Be Strange"
                 Andrea Parker's _DJ-Kicks_: "Space DJ's - Celestial Funk"
                 Stereolab's _Aluminium Tunes [Switched On 3] (cd2)_: "The Incredible He Woman"
                 Grooverider's _Mysteries of Funk (cd2)_: "Imagination (Parts 1 & 2)"
                 Mojave 3's _Out of Tune_: "All Your Tears"
                 Andrea Parker's _DJ-Kicks_: "DJ Panic - Vision Of Mars"
                 Joni Mitchell's _Taming the Tiger_: "Face Lift"
                 Björk's _Hunter (cd1)_: "Hunter (State of Bengal Mix)"
                 Squarepusher's _Music Is Rotted One Note_: "Chunk-S"
                 Belle & Sebastian's _the Boy With the Arab Strap_: "It Could Have Been a Brilliant Career"
                 Coil's _Autumn Equinox: Regel_: "The Auto-Asphyxiating Hierophant"
                 Squarepusher's _Music Is Rotted One Note_: "137 (Rinse)"
                 Joni Mitchell's _Taming the Tiger_: "Love Puts on a New Face"
                 Lisa Germano's _Slide_: "Wood Floors"
                 Andrea Parker's _DJ-Kicks_: "Andrea Parker - Unconnected"
                 Andrea Parker's _DJ-Kicks_: "Voigt Kampff - Asphalt"
                 Mojave 3's _Out of Tune_: "Caught Beneath Your Heel"
                 Grooverider's _Mysteries of Funk (cd1)_: "On the Double"
                 Grooverider's _Mysteries of Funk (cd2)_: "Stay With Me"
                 Andrea Parker's _DJ-Kicks_: "Dr Octagon - Earth People (Earth Planet Mix)"
                 Björk's _Hunter (cd3)_: "Hunter (Mood Swing Remix)"
                 Stereolab's _Aluminium Tunes [Switched On 3] (cd2)_: "Get Carter"
                 Stereolab's _Aluminium Tunes [Switched On 3] (cd2)_: "Munich Madness"
                 Stereolab's _Aluminium Tunes [Switched On 3] (cd2)_: "Check And Double Check"
                 Stereolab's _Aluminium Tunes [Switched On 3] (cd2)_: "Seeperbold"
                 Massive Attack's _Blue Lines_
                 Isotope 217's _The Unstable Molecule_: "Phonometrics"
                 Jeff Buckley's _Grace_: "Corpus Christi Carol"
                 Stereolab's _Dots and Loops_: "Miss Modular"
                 Jeff Buckley's _Grace_: "Lover, You Should Come Over"
                 Isotope 217's _The Unstable Molecule_: "Beneath the Undertow"
                 Bundy K. Brown, Doug Scharin, James Warden's _Directions In Music_: "(untitled)"
                 Pram's _Music for your Movies_: "Eggshells"
                 Eurythmics's _Sweet Dreams (Are Made Of This)_
                 Eurythmics's _1984 (For the Love of Big Brother)_
                 Eurythmics's _Be Yourself Tonight_
                 Eurythmics's _Savage_
                 The Durutti Column's _Circuses and Bread_
                 Grooverider's _Mysteries of Funk (cd1)_: "Time & Space"
                 The Durutti Column's _Obey The Time_
                 The Durutti Column's _The Guitar and Other Machines_
                 Einstürzende Neubauten's _Strategies Against Architecture_
                 Thomas Dolby's _The Flat Earth_
                 Dif Juz's _Extractions_
                 Einstürzende Neubauten's _Halber Mensch_
                 Einstürzende Neubauten's _Halber Mensch_
                 Grooverider's _Mysteries of Funk (cd1)_: "Cybernetic Jazz"
                 Depeche Mode's _Speak & Spell_
                 Depeche Mode's _Construction Time Again_
                 Crime + The City Solution's _The Bride Ship_
                 Depeche Mode's _Some Great Reward_
                 Crime + The City Solution's _Just South of Heaven_
                 Cocteau Twins's _Treasure_
                 Depeche Mode's _Strangelove_
                 Depeche Mode's _Master And Servant_
                 The Clash's _Sandinista!_
                 Cocteau Twins's _Sunburst and Snowblind_
                 Clan of Xymox's _Medusa_
                 Circus Modern's _Circus Modern_
                 Severed Heads's _Come Visit The Big Bigot_: "Propellor"
                 Stereolab's _Dots and Loops_: "Brakhage"
                 Depeche Mode's _Never Let Me Down Again (Tsangarides Mix)_
                 Circus Modern's _Trøst_
                 Sheila Chandra's _Quiet_
                 Cabaret Voltaire's _Hypnotised_
                 Caterwaul's _Portent Hue_
                 Cabaret Voltaire's _Drinking Gasoline_
                 Steven Brown's _Searching for Contact_
                 William S. Burroughs's _Spare Ass Annie_
                 Neil Young & Crazy Horse's _Live Rust_: "Powderfinger"
                 Neil Young's _Harvest_: "Harvest"
                 Neil Young & Crazy Horse's _Live Rust_: "Like A Hurricane"
                 Neil Young & Crazy Horse's _Live Rust_: "Sedan Delivery"
                 Everything But The Girl's _Walking Wounded_: "Walking Wounded"
                 Meat Beat Manifesto's _Actual Sounds and Voices_: "Prime Audio Soup"
                 New Grape's _New Grape_
                 ESP Family's _ESP Family_
                 Pram's _Sargasso Sea_: "Sea Swells and Distant Squalls"
                 His Name Is Alive's _Live in Mexico_
                 Tortoise's _TNT_: "Everglade"
                 Mojave 3's _Out of Tune_: "Some Kinda Angel"
                 Stereolab's _Emperor Tomato Ketchup_: "Les Yper-sound"
                 Various's _Energy Flash_: "LFO - Mentok 1"
                 Stereolab's _Dots and Loops_: "The Flower Called Nowhere"
                 Stereolab's _Dots and Loops_: "Parsec"
                 Stereolab's _Emperor Tomato Ketchup_: "Metronomic Underground"
                 Various's _Energy Flash_: "Hyper-On Experience - Assention (To The Ninth Level)"
                 The Art of Noise's _Who's Afraid of...!_
                 The Art of Noise's _In Visible Silence_
                 A Certain Ratio's _Sextet_
                 Ida's _I Know About You_: "Downtown"
                 Stereolab's _Aluminium Tunes [Switched On 3] (cd1)_: "Pop Quiz"
                 Stereolab's _Dots and Loops_: "Diagonals"
                 Portishead's _Roseland NYC Live_: "Humming"
                 Meat Beat Manifesto's _Actual Sounds and Voices_: "Oblivion-Humans"
                 Stereolab's _Aluminium Tunes [Switched On 3] (cd1)_: "Iron Man"
                 Bettie Serveert's _Palomine_
                 The Birthday Party's _Prayers On Fire_
                 The Art of Noise's _In No Sense? Nonsense!_
                 Ida's _I Know About You_: "Little Things"
                 Nick Drake's _Way To Blue_: "Fruit Tree"
                 Stereolab's _Aluminium Tunes [Switched On 3] (cd1)_: "Space Moment"
                 Goldie's _Ring of Saturn_: "Judged by Colour, Heard by Sound, Seen by Blind"
                 Portishead's _Roseland NYC Live_: "Strangers"
                 A Certain Ratio's _To Each..._



-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Lars Balker Rasmussen]

Wes Hardaker <wjhardaker@ucdavis.edu> writes:
> So, uh, my quest to know everything about Lars has gone on for a while 
> now...  Should I turn it off yet?  (heh)

Heavens, Lars, you're being net-stalked!
-- 
Lars Balker Rasmussen, Software Engineer, Mjolner Informatics ApS
lbr@mjolner.dk

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Didier Verna]

Wes Hardaker writes:

Wes> Mailer: Quassia Gnus v0.19/XEmacs 19.15

	Naaaa, Larsy, I'm very disappointed ...

Wes> Newsreader: Gnus/5.07006 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.60) XEmacs/21.2(beta3)

	hm, ok for this time ...

-- 
    /     /   _   _       Didier Verna        http://www.inf.enst.fr/~verna/
 - / / - / / /_/ /      E.N.S.T. INF C201.1      mailto:verna@inf.enst.fr
/_/ / /_/ / /__ /        46 rue Barrault        Tel.   (33) 01 45 81 73 46
                      75634 Paris  cedex 13     Fax.   (33) 01 45 81 31 19

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Lars Balker Rasmussen <lbr@mjolner.dk> writes:

> > So, uh, my quest to know everything about Lars has gone on for a while 
> > now...  Should I turn it off yet?  (heh)
> 
> Heavens, Lars, you're being net-stalked!

Ooo!  It makes me feel warm and tingly all over!  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Han Pilmeyer]

Hmmm,

Seem that you're keeping a database with details about other
individuals. I assume you've gone through the necessary paperwork to
be allowed to have such a database? :-)

Or is that no needed in the USA or Norway?

Cheers.
-- 
-- Han Pilmeyer, han@uto.dec.com, Phone: +31 342 428694, FAX: +31 342 428606 --
-- Digital Equipment B.V., Europalaan 44, 3526 KS Utrecht, The Netherlands   --
--         Answers are the easy part, questions raise the doubt   - JB       --
-- All opinions are those of the author, not of Digital Equipment!           --

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On 02 Dec 1998 19:51:58 +0100, Didier Verna <verna@inf.enst.fr> said:

Wes> Mailer: Quassia Gnus v0.19/XEmacs 19.15

dv> 	Naaaa, Larsy, I'm very disappointed ...

Actually, this was due to the fact that I'm not catching UserAgent:,
mainly because which field do I stick it in (mail vs newsreader)?
Both? (yeah)

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On 02 Dec 1998 22:01:56 +0100, Han Pilmeyer <han@uto.dec.com> said:

Han> Seem that you're keeping a database with details about other
Han> individuals. I assume you've gone through the necessary paperwork
Han> to be allowed to have such a database? :-)

He he.

Han> Or is that no needed in the USA or Norway?

Certainly not when I'm not using it for commercial purposes.  Though,
no one has yet offered me money to sell out my knowledge of Lars'
marketing profile about what books and CDs he'd probably buy from
them...

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On 02 Dec 1998 20:36:46 +0100, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> said:

Lars> Lars Balker Rasmussen <lbr@mjolner.dk> writes:
>> > So, uh, my quest to know everything about Lars has gone on for a while 
>> > now...  Should I turn it off yet?  (heh)
>> 
>> Heavens, Lars, you're being net-stalked!

Lars> Ooo!  It makes me feel warm and tingly all over!  :-)

By the way:

  X-Now-Playing: Laurie Anderson's _Strange Angels_

cool!

and:

  X-Now-Reading: Joe Keenan's _Blue Heaven_

Should this have been:

  X-Now-Reading: Lars Balker Rasmussen's <0fg1ayxu2x.fsf@fenris.mjolner.dk>

I seriously doubt you were reading a book while you were reading his message...

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Wes Hardaker <wjhardaker@ucdavis.edu> writes:

>   X-Now-Reading: Joe Keenan's _Blue Heaven_
> 
> Should this have been:
> 
>   X-Now-Reading: Lars Balker Rasmussen's <0fg1ayxu2x.fsf@fenris.mjolner.dk>
> 
> I seriously doubt you were reading a book while you were reading his
> message...

Well, for some values of "now", that header is perfectly correct.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On 02 Dec 1998 22:38:21 +0100, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> said:

Lars> Well, for some values of "now", that header is perfectly
Lars> correct.  :-)

Yes, but is it ever correct when the "Now" is when the header is
being generated?
-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Wes Hardaker <wjhardaker@ucdavis.edu> writes:

> Lars> Well, for some values of "now", that header is perfectly
> Lars> correct.  :-)
> 
> Yes, but is it ever correct when the "Now" is when the header is
> being generated?

Sure.  FSVO "now".  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Han Pilmeyer <han@uto.dec.com>:

> Seem that you're keeping a database with details about other
> individuals. I assume you've gone through the necessary paperwork to
> be allowed to have such a database? :-)

> Or is that no needed in the USA or Norway?

In Norway it's needed, and the default answer is "no".  You have to
prove your need.

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:

> >>>>> Han Pilmeyer <han@uto.dec.com>:
> 
> > Seem that you're keeping a database with details about other
> > individuals. I assume you've gone through the necessary paperwork to
> > be allowed to have such a database? :-)
> 
> > Or is that no needed in the USA or Norway?
> 
> In Norway it's needed, and the default answer is "no".  You have to
> prove your need.

Need every BBDB user prove his need, then?

-- 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
Union break!

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Per Abrahamsen]

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:

> Need every BBDB user prove his need, then?

Normal use of BBDB might very well be illegal in Denmark.

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[William M. Perry]

Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes:

> Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:
> 
> > Need every BBDB user prove his need, then?
> 
> Normal use of BBDB might very well be illegal in Denmark.

  So would netscape's address book stuff be equally illegal?  Seems that
'keeping a database of information about other people' is way too general
to be prosecutable.

  But then laws like that always tend to befuddle me.

-Bill P.

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk>:

> Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:
>> Need every BBDB user prove his need, then?

> Normal use of BBDB might very well be illegal in Denmark.

It might in Norway too.

But I doubt it will ever by prosecuted.

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Colin Rafferty]

Kurt Swanson writes:

> The idea that the government writes general laws it only intends upon
> enforcing in certain cases is hard to understand if one is an
> American, though this is often the case in Europe.

Ha!

-- 
Colin (American) Rafferty

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Michael Cook]

Kurt Swanson <ksw@dna.lth.se> writes:

> The idea that the government writes general laws it only intends upon
> enforcing in certain cases is hard to understand if one is an
> American, though this is often the case in Europe.

Actually, George Stephanopolas was just talking about this issue
last Sunday on one of those Meet the Press-type shows.  The context
was the recent Kavorkian events.  Stephanopolas argued that issues
like assisted suicide are perhaps too complicated to apply rigid
laws to, and that the usual "solution" for this kind of situation is
to enact laws but then only selectively enforce them.  I think he
called it something like "good hypocrisy".

M.

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On 03 Dec 1998 15:26:42 +0100, Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> said:

>> Need every BBDB user prove his need, then?

Per> Normal use of BBDB might very well be illegal in Denmark.

So, this is a slippery slope...  Does this mean that address books are 
illegal?  If not, does it mean if you have an automatic button to
press to add an address from a mail user into your address book, thats 
illegal?  If the button is automated for every new message you
receive (always adding people to your address book), thats illegal?
Is buttonizing the gnus article so that you can click on a name and
reply to them (thus, collecting and using information just like bbdb
does) is illegal?  Not if you don't keep the article around for
purposes of collecting said information?

Yikes...

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Per Abrahamsen]

Wes Hardaker <wjhardaker@ucdavis.edu> writes:

> If not, does it mean if you have an automatic button to press to add
> an address from a mail user into your address book, thats illegal?

It is not the software or the means of collecting the data that might
be illegal, but the database itself.  There are limits to what kind of
stuf about other people you may store on a computer.  However, you are
welcome to print it out and store it on paper.

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On 03 Dec 1998 18:48:23 +0100, Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> said:

Per> It is not the software or the means of collecting the data that
Per> might be illegal, but the database itself.  There are limits to
Per> what kind of stuf about other people you may store on a computer.
Per> However, you are welcome to print it out and store it on paper.

Ahh....  The interesting thing about this case (why are we getting
into this?) is that Lars is sending out the information, which means
he wants it to be public knowledge.

Then again, I'm also doing tracking of what newsgroups he posts to
(that I read), which is much more borderline.

Doesn't matter, where I live, of course.
-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Kurt Swanson <ksw@dna.lth.se>:

> Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:
>>>>>>> Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk>:

>>> Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:
>>>> Need every BBDB user prove his need, then?

>>> Normal use of BBDB might very well be illegal in Denmark.

>> It might in Norway too.

>> But I doubt it will ever by prosecuted.

> I'm sure it will be, though not in the BBDB case. 

Well, that was the case I meant.

> Many European counties, including all of the EU, have strict laws
> governing such things.  But these laws, despite their wording, have
> never been meant to be applied to individuals and for "good" uses.
> The idea is to write a law general enough to catch the "bad" guys
> (neo-Nazis making lists of all Jews in the country, companies
> selling secret information about induhviduals for purposes of sneaky
> advertising).

The main purpose of the Norwegian law, is the privacy issue and
protection of the individual.  The law makes it harder (though not
impossible) for insurance companies, credit card companies and banks
to collate information on individuals.

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Kai.Grossjohann]

Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes:

  > It is not the software or the means of collecting the data that might
  > be illegal, but the database itself.  There are limits to what kind of
  > stuf about other people you may store on a computer.  However, you are
  > welcome to print it out and store it on paper.

Hm.  I think in Germany one is allowed to store stuff like name and
address (and maybe phone number, dunno).  Would make sense to include
the email address in this, as well.  Additional information falls
under `information protection' (what's the right English word?) law.

What does the law say in Denmark?

kai
-- 
This gubblick contains many nonsklarkish English flutzpahs,
but the overall pluggandisp can be glorked from context. -- David Moser

Re: time to turn this off yet?

[Dave Love]

>>>>> "Kai" == Kai Grossjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes:

 Kai> Additional information falls under `information protection'
 Kai> (what's the right English word?) law.

Well, the corresponding UK law is the Data Protection Act.  It's
probably at least as wonderful as the continental versions.