Re: To IMAP or not to IMAP

Re: To IMAP or not to IMAP

[Christopher Browne]

Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw when jesse@phiwumbda.org (Jesse F. Hughes) would write:
> Marcus Frings <iam-est-hora-surgere@despammed.com> writes:
>
>> I recommend Courier or Dovecot.              
>
> Quick question:  I use sendmail now, but if I understand the Courier
> site, it appears I have to change to some other MTA to use Maildir.  I
> think that Exim, Postfix or Courier's own MTA will do, if I
> understand.
>
> Boy, that's more overhead, ain't it?  Maybe Kai's suggestion is
> looking keener.

I _know_ that qmail and Postfix support Maildir (the former was where
the innovation came from; I use the latter).  

I thought that Sendmail had a patch available to let it support
Maildir too.
-- 
(format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "ntlug.org")
http://cbbrowne.com/info/rdbms.html
Why are there interstate highways in Hawaii? 

Re: To IMAP or not to IMAP

[Jesse F. Hughes]

Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@acm.org> writes:

> I thought that Sendmail had a patch available to let it support
> Maildir too.

A little googling told me this:

,----
| sendmail is only the mail transfer agent, it does not store e-mails by
| itself. To do so, it hands the e-mail message over to a so called
| local delivery agent or LDA for short.
| 
| It is the with choice of the LDA that you make a choice for the
| message store format. Whereas mail.local uses ed7 mailbox format,
| maildrop or procmail (AFAIK) can deliver to Maildirs.
`----

<http://www.mailarchive.ca/lists/comp.mail.sendmail/2003-04/1031.html>
This makes things simpler.  I already use procmail in a trivial way
(for bogofilter mostly).

-- 
Jesse Hughes
"Yes, I'm one of those arrogant people who tries to be quotable.
There is actually at least one person who quotes me often." 
                                                 -- James Harris

Re: To IMAP or not to IMAP

[David Magda]

jesse@phiwumbda.org (Jesse F. Hughes) writes:

> Does anyone know of a site that compares various IMAP servers?  I'd

http://www.extundo.com/gnus-imap/buggy-imap-servers.html

You may want to check the archives of comp.mail.imap. This question
comes up every so often there.

-- 
David Magda <dmagda at ee.ryerson.ca>, http://www.magda.ca/
Because the innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under
the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may do well 
under the new. -- Niccolo Machiavelli, _The Prince_, Chapter VI

Re: To IMAP or not to IMAP

[Richard Watson]

jesse@phiwumbda.org (Jesse F. Hughes) writes:

> Quick question:  I use sendmail now, but if I understand the Courier
> site, it appears I have to change to some other MTA to use Maildir.  I
> think that Exim, Postfix or Courier's own MTA will do, if I
> understand.

Yes, in fact for home use you'd probably be much better off with any
of those than sendmail (unless you are already a sendmail guru)

> Boy, that's more overhead, ain't it? 

Depends what you mean by overhead. You only need one MTA after all. It
might as well be one you like :-)

-- 
Richard Watson
http://www.opencolo.com/
High Quality, Value for money colocation

Re: To IMAP or not to IMAP

[Marcus Frings]

* jesse@phiwumbda.org (Jesse F. Hughes) wrote:
> David Magda <dmagda+trace040423@ee.ryerson.ca> writes:

>> http://www.extundo.com/gnus-imap/buggy-imap-servers.html

> Uh oh.  Courier IMAPD is on that list.  That's the one I was going to
> try out on Marcus's suggestion.  But it's also on the fixed list.

I wouldn't care too much because of this list although Simon is one of
the IMAP gurus in the Gnus developer team. I have never run into
problems with Courier IMAP and I use it for years (with Gnus and others
MUAs).

Regards,
Marcus
-- 
"I think I've reached that point where all the things you have to say 
and hopes for something more from me are just games to pass the time away.
Please stop loving me, please stop loving me, I am none of these things..."

Re: To IMAP or not to IMAP

[Marcus Frings]

* Josh Huber <huber+news@alum.wpi.edu> wrote:

> I really enjoy using Cyrus as my home IMAP server.  It's really
> fast, has built-in filtering support (through sieve), and has
> been really stable.  Of course, it may be overkill with only 7
> regular users, but I figured it would be a good learning
> experience at the same time!

Cyrus was my first IMAP server I have ever used (IIRC from a SuSE 6.0)
and as I said I do really think that it's a very great thing and cool if
you run a large site but especially because of my home usage I thought I
should better run a smaller IMAPd and so I came to Courier IMAP some
years ago which usually runs "out of the box". However, I have tweaked
it a little. :-)

Regards,
Marcus
-- 
"Enter that room, insect, and it will become your grave!"
                                 (Shodan in System Shock)

Re: To IMAP or not to IMAP

[Chris Green]

"Andrew A. Raines" <aaraines@pobox.com> writes:

> So, is there a better way of doing this now?  Or did you not need
> to sync between two machines anymore?

I've thought about using something like
http://gnumonks.org/projects/project_details?p_id=10
http://isync.sourceforge.net/ or
http://mailsync.sourceforge.net/

The one nit seems to be synchronizing a local delete to a remote
box.  I've not had time to fiddle.
-- 
Chris Green <cmg@dok.org>
Laugh and the world laughs with you, snore and you sleep alone.

Re: To IMAP or not to IMAP

[Marcus Frings]

* Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> wrote:

> Do (setq imap-log t) and wait an hour, or enough to get a fair amount
> of data, and look at the lines starting with '* FLAGS', e.g.:

> * FLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Draft \Seen)

> If some of them contain SPC anywhere except between two flags, then it
> is still buggy.  Compare the reported buggy sample:

> ( \Noinferior)

Okay, here is the log (from the time of your posting up to now):

,----[ xenon% grep FLAGS /tmp/log.txt ]
| * FLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Recent)
| * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS ()] No permanent flags permitted
| * FLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Recent)
| * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen)] Limited
| 39 UID STORE 31380 +FLAGS (\Seen)
| * 552 FETCH (UID 31380 FLAGS (\Seen \Recent))
| * FLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Recent)
| * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen)] Limited
| 52 UID STORE 6401 +FLAGS (\Seen)
| * 558 FETCH (UID 6401 FLAGS (\Seen \Recent))
| * FLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Recent)
| * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen)] Limited
| * FLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Recent)
| * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS ()] No permanent flags permitted
| * FLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Recent)
| * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen)] Limited
| 147 UID STORE 31381 +FLAGS (\Seen)
| * 553 FETCH (UID 31381 FLAGS (\Seen \Recent))
| * FLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Recent)
| * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS ()] No permanent flags permitted
| * FLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Recent)
| * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS ()] No permanent flags permitted
| * FLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Recent)
| * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen)] Limited
| 310 UID STORE 6402 +FLAGS (\Seen)
| * 559 FETCH (UID 6402 FLAGS (\Seen \Recent))
| * FLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Recent)
| * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen)] Limited
| * FLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Recent)
| * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen)] Limited
| 335 UID STORE 31382:31387 +FLAGS (\Seen)
| * 554 FETCH (UID 31382 FLAGS (\Seen \Recent))
| * 555 FETCH (UID 31383 FLAGS (\Seen \Recent))
| * 556 FETCH (UID 31384 FLAGS (\Seen \Recent))
| * 557 FETCH (UID 31385 FLAGS (\Seen \Recent))
| * 558 FETCH (UID 31386 FLAGS (\Seen \Recent))
| * 559 FETCH (UID 31387 FLAGS (\Seen \Recent))
`----

There is no invalid SPC between brackets.

> I suspect this has been fixed long time ago.  If you can find out
> which version your server is, I can update the web page.

I use Debian Woody's Courier IMAP server, the version is 1.4.3.

HTH,
Marcus
-- 
"Es soll kein unschuldig Blut vergossen werden, doch das Blut der Gottlosen
soll fließen in Strömen. Die Drei sollen ihre schwarzen Flügel spreizen und
werden der Hammer sein der Rache Gottes."

Re: To IMAP or not to IMAP

[Kai Grossjohann]

"Andrew A. Raines" <aaraines@pobox.com> writes:

> Kai Grossjohann <kai@emptydomain.de> writes:
>
>> It works.  Just use the Agent and do like this when on the road:
>
> [...]
>
>> I used this setup for a while,
>
> So, is there a better way of doing this now?  Or did you not need
> to sync between two machines anymore?

No need to sync two machines anymore.  I changed to an environment
where I'm always using the same laptop, so I just use Gnus from there.

Kai

Re: To IMAP or not to IMAP

[Steven E. Harris]

Kai Grossjohann <kai@emptydomain.de> writes:

> * ssh to your desktop.  Invoke Gnus in plugged mode (with emacs -nw,
>   perhaps, for speed).  Fetch mail.  Switch Gnus to unplugged mode.
>   Exit Gnus.
>
> * Sync everything with the laptop.
>
> * Run Gnus in unplugged mode on laptop, do whatever you like.

I can never get this to work properly (running a nearly up-to-date No
Gnus 0.3). When I start up Gnus is unplugged mode, it still tries to
connect to my non-agentized groups, and fails when I try to enter any
of my agentized nnimap groups.

Using the agent always sounds like a great idea, but even these simple
operations don't work right, at least for me. I submitted a bug
report¹, and I've seen some recent discussion here on the same
problem, so I don't think I'm the only one seeing this.


Footnotes: 
¹ <83smbyqxsw.fsf@torus.sehlabs.com> on news.gnus.org

-- 
Steven E. Harris