"Forward" in the standard way

"Forward" in the standard way

[Jordan Wilson]

I have been trying to forward HTML email (*makes the sign of the
cross*).

I want to have Gnus treat the email content "in the standard way",
i.e. have the HTML content inline (not as an attachment), and renderable
by non-Gnus email clients.

My fiddlings with `message-forward-as-mime' and
`message-forward-show-mml' has got me as far as having the
HTML message inline, but the HTML is unrendered on the other end.

Is there a simple way of doing this using Gnus?

-- 

Sent from Gnus v5.13, Emacs 25.0.92.1

Re: "Forward" in the standard way

[Adam Sjøgren]

Jordan writes:

> I want to have Gnus treat the email content "in the standard way",
> i.e. have the HTML content inline (not as an attachment), and renderable
> by non-Gnus email clients.

None of the different ARGs gives what you want?

,----[ C-h f gnus-summary-mail-forward RET ]
| gnus-summary-mail-forward is an interactive autoloaded compiled Lisp
| function in `gnus-msg.el'.
| 
| (gnus-summary-mail-forward &optional ARG POST)
| 
| Forward the current message(s) to another user.
| If process marks exist, forward all marked messages;
| if ARG is nil, see `message-forward-as-mime' and `message-forward-show-mml';
| if ARG is 1, decode the message and forward directly inline;
| if ARG is 2, forward message as an rfc822 MIME section;
| if ARG is 3, decode message and forward as an rfc822 MIME section;
| if ARG is 4, forward message directly inline;
| otherwise, use flipped `message-forward-as-mime'.
| If POST, post instead of mail.
| For the "inline" alternatives, also see the variable
| `message-forward-ignored-headers'.
| 
`----

It sounds like 1 is the one you want?


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Dansk, dette unikum af artikulatorisk økonomi."             Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk


_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

Re: "Forward" in the standard way

[Jordan Wilson]

I've been through all of them, 1 and 4 incline the HTML but it's treated
as plain text by the receiving client. 2 and 3 create attachments of the
old email contents.

Regards,
Jordan
-- 

Sent from Gnus v5.13, Emacs 25.0.92.1

Re: "Forward" in the standard way

[Adam Sjøgren]

Jordan writes:

> I've been through all of them, 1 and 4 incline the HTML but it's treated
> as plain text by the receiving client.

Is your own email plain text or HTML in this case?

I would guess you have to write an HTML-email if you want an inlined
email to be treated as HTML.


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "God must've been punting angels left and right."            Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk


_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

Re: "Forward" in the standard way

[Elias Mårtenson]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1032 bytes --]

I wrote an entire package to deal with this issue. It's difficult to do it
right, and I'm not even claiming my tool is good enough for general use
(even though me and several colleagues have used it for years).

https://github.com/lokedhs/gnus-outlook-style

On 14 March 2016 at 04:44, Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> wrote:

> Jordan writes:
>
> > I've been through all of them, 1 and 4 incline the HTML but it's treated
> > as plain text by the receiving client.
>
> Is your own email plain text or HTML in this case?
>
> I would guess you have to write an HTML-email if you want an inlined
> email to be treated as HTML.
>
>
>   Best regards,
>
>     Adam
>
> --
>  "God must've been punting angels left and right."            Adam Sjøgren
>                                                          asjo@koldfront.dk
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info-gnus-english mailing list
> info-gnus-english@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english
>

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1850 bytes --]

Re: "Forward" in the standard way

[Adam Sjøgren]

Elias writes:

> On 14 March 2016 at 04:44, Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> wrote:

>> I would guess you have to write an HTML-email if you want an inlined
>> email to be treated as HTML.

> I wrote an entire package to deal with this issue. It's difficult to do it
> right, and I'm not even claiming my tool is good enough for general use
> (even though me and several colleagues have used it for years).
>
> https://github.com/lokedhs/gnus-outlook-style

In this context, but a slightly different subject: It would be cool if
Gnus could:

 * elide all "full-bottom-quoted" emails, preferably with a line for
   each, togglable,

     or

 * reformat an email containing a thread of emails full-bottom-quoted
   into the "correct" format (top quoted)

I guess the latter isn't that useful, but sometimes I reformat threads
to make them understandable.

Like this one :-)


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Facebook cannot control emotions of users. Facebook         Adam Sjøgren
  will not control emotions of users." - Facebook's COO  asjo@koldfront.dk


_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

Re: "Forward" in the standard way

[Eric S Fraga]

On Wednesday,  6 Apr 2016 at 10:46, Adam Sjøgren wrote:

[...]

> In this context, but a slightly different subject: It would be cool if
> Gnus could:
>
>  * elide all "full-bottom-quoted" emails, preferably with a line for
>    each, togglable,
>
>      or
>
>  * reformat an email containing a thread of emails full-bottom-quoted
>    into the "correct" format (top quoted)
>
> I guess the latter isn't that useful, but sometimes I reformat threads
> to make them understandable.

I would love to have both of those features!  The latter is actually of
great potential benefit: I have to live in an Outlook world as well and
it is most annoying to have to read by flipping up and down pages to
figure out what is going on: <eob> <prior>*5 <next>*5 <prior>*8 <next>*3
... :-(


-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xFFFCF67D
: in Emacs 25.0.92.1 + Ma Gnus v0.16 + evil-git-ff74cfb
: BBDB version 3.1.2 (2015-10-28 10:47:01+00:00)

_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

Re: "Forward" in the standard way

[Rasmus]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> Elias writes:
>
>> On 14 March 2016 at 04:44, Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> wrote:
>
>>> I would guess you have to write an HTML-email if you want an inlined
>>> email to be treated as HTML.
>
>> I wrote an entire package to deal with this issue. It's difficult to do it
>> right, and I'm not even claiming my tool is good enough for general use
>> (even though me and several colleagues have used it for years).
>>
>> https://github.com/lokedhs/gnus-outlook-style
>
> In this context, but a slightly different subject: It would be cool if
> Gnus could:
>
>  * elide all "full-bottom-quoted" emails, preferably with a line for
>    each, togglable,
>
>      or
>
>  * reformat an email containing a thread of emails full-bottom-quoted
>    into the "correct" format (top quoted)
>
> I guess the latter isn't that useful, but sometimes I reformat threads
> to make them understandable.

I'd like to see both features; the latter more than the former.

Rasmus

-- 
Tack, ni svenska vakttorn. Med plutonium tvingar vi dansken på knä!


_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

Re: "Forward" in the standard way

[Elias Mårtenson]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1958 bytes --]

On 6 April 2016 at 16:46, Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> wrote:

 * elide all "full-bottom-quoted" emails, preferably with a line for
>    each, togglable,
>
>      or
>
>  * reformat an email containing a thread of emails full-bottom-quoted
>    into the "correct" format (top quoted)
>
> I guess the latter isn't that useful, but sometimes I reformat threads
> to make them understandable.
>

Fair enough (and yes, I'm aware of the fact that I made a mistake with my
previous message).

The first suggestion is what Gmail is doing, I believe, and it seems to
work quite well.

The second suggestion is not really workable. Anyone who has been working
in an organisation that uses Outlook extensively (like where I work) knows
that the chains become very long, and reformatting to put the entire
message (or even message chain) on top would make it incredibly difficult
to read.

My tool does not address this at all. In fact, using shr to render the HTML
Outlook emails works really well in almost all cases, and for the remaining
ones all you need to do is to press K H to render it in a browser.

My tool ensures that the reply chain is preserved when you reply. Believe
it or not, but in many companies, when someone wants to inform another
person of a previous discussion, he simply forwards the email to the
recipient, and the entire chain is there for him. Thus, you need to make
sure that no matter how you write your mails, you need to ensure that the
previous chain is preserved, including inline images etc. That is what my
tool does.

I'm brining this up here, because I feel that this functionality should be
part of Gnus. However, my tool is not suitable for this, due to the fact
that it does the HTML rewriting using an external program. If there was an
Elisp implementation of a parser that supports the HTML→DOM→Edit→DOM→HTML
workflow, I'd be happy to implement it.

Regards,
Elias

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2544 bytes --]

Re: "Forward" in the standard way

[Adam Sjøgren]

Elias writes:

> On 6 April 2016 at 16:46, Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> wrote:

>>  * reformat an email containing a thread of emails full-bottom-quoted
>>    into the "correct" format (top quoted)
>>
>> I guess the latter isn't that useful, but sometimes I reformat threads
>> to make them understandable.

> Fair enough (and yes, I'm aware of the fact that I made a mistake with my
> previous message).

(I hope you took the comment tongue-in-cheek, as it was meant. It is
very easy to get used to doing "Outlook"-quoting).

> The first suggestion is what Gmail is doing, I believe, and it seems to
> work quite well.

Yes, that must be where I have seen it.

> The second suggestion is not really workable.

That's what I meant by it being less useful - only in cases like this
thread, it can be used. And maybe on some technical mailing lists.

> Anyone who has been working in an organisation that uses Outlook
> extensively (like where I work) knows that the chains become very
> long, and reformatting to put the entire message (or even message
> chain) on top would make it incredibly difficult to read.

Yes, you would have to trim and interleave the quotes as well, which
would make the functionality less useful.

> My tool does not address this at all.

Indeed - every time your tool is mentioned, I think: "Oooh, nice!", and
then I read what it does, and remember that it isn't really what *I*
need; which I why I brought up the two other functionalities.

> In fact, using shr to render the HTML Outlook emails works really well
> in almost all cases, and for the remaining ones all you need to do is
> to press K H to render it in a browser.

I know, I work in a place where everybody but me and a handful of other
people use Outlook.

I don't have any problems with them, when I reply "top quote"-style with
Gnus, though. Explanation coming up:

> My tool ensures that the reply chain is preserved when you reply.

How it this different from a normal Reply in Gnus, where you add your
text at the top?

> Believe it or not, but in many companies, when someone wants to inform
> another person of a previous discussion, he simply forwards the email
> to the recipient, and the entire chain is there for him.

I think, sadly, that this is every company by now.

As a matter of principle, I still trim excessive .signatures etc. from
such emails, but I have given up teaching everybody how to use email.

> Thus, you need to make sure that no matter how you write your mails,
> you need to ensure that the previous chain is preserved, including
> inline images etc. That is what my tool does.

I guess this is where my colleages and yours differ, nobody uses inline
images and formatting enough to expect them to be preserved at "my" place.

Or maybe they are too polite to complain to me.

> I'm brining this up here, because I feel that this functionality should be
> part of Gnus.

I don't think Gnus supports, directly, anything but *display* of HTML emails?


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Va' kallt det är.."                                         Adam Sjøgren
 "Mmmh? Det brukar det vara om vintern!"                 asjo@koldfront.dk


_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

Re: "Forward" in the standard way

[Adam Sjøgren]

Adam writes:

> As a matter of principle, I still trim excessive .signatures etc. from
> such emails, but I have given up teaching everybody how to use email.

There ought to be a name for this, like the eternal september...


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Apparantly I was misinformed."                              Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk


_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

Re: "Forward" in the standard way

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Elias Mårtenson <lokedhs@gmail.com> writes:

> I'm brining this up here, because I feel that this functionality should be
> part of Gnus.

Yes, it sounds very useful.

> However, my tool is not suitable for this, due to the fact that it
> does the HTML rewriting using an external program. If there was an
> Elisp implementation of a parser that supports the
> HTML→DOM→Edit→DOM→HTML workflow, I'd be happy to implement it.

Hm...  Well, Emacs can parse HTML, and can mutate the DOM (with dom.el),
and it can print the DOM out again (as HTML), so I basically think Emacs
can do this all now?  (I realise I'm replying to a two year old email.
:-))

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

_______________________________________________
info-gnus-english mailing list
info-gnus-english@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

Re: "Forward" in the standard way

[Jordan Wilson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 852 bytes --]

On 2016-03-13 (Sun) at 20:00 (+0000), I wrote:
> I have been trying to forward HTML email (*makes the sign of the
> cross*).
>
> I want to have Gnus treat the email content "in the standard way",
> i.e. have the HTML content inline (not as an attachment), and renderable
> by non-Gnus email clients.
>
> My fiddlings with `message-forward-as-mime' and
> `message-forward-show-mml' has got me as far as having the
> HTML message inline, but the HTML is unrendered on the other end.
>
> Is there a simple way of doing this using Gnus?

I completely forgot about this thread, until just now seeing Lars's reply.

I ended up hacking together this very ugly function (more of a
script). I imagine it would have been trivial to implement this
properly, but didn't have the time to look at Gnus' internals. It works
most of the time in the way that I wanted.

[-- Attachment #2: html-forward.el --]
[-- Type: application/emacs-lisp, Size: 1496 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 41 bytes --]

-- 
Sent from Gnus v5.13, GNU Emacs 26.1

Re: "Forward" in the standard way

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Jordan Wilson <jordan.t.wilson@gmx.com> writes:

> I ended up hacking together this very ugly function (more of a
> script). I imagine it would have been trivial to implement this
> properly, but didn't have the time to look at Gnus' internals. It works
> most of the time in the way that I wanted.

Hm, I see...  Yes, something along those lines looks like the right
idea.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no