[NTG-context] incosistent output of --- dash

[NTG-context] incosistent output of --- dash

[madiazm.eoicc]

Hi everyone,
I'm a bit puzzled because I usually don't get an em-dash when I type tree hyphens. If I use the command \emdash, no problem but when I use the hyphens some days it works... and somedays I see three small hyphens.
I tried it on overleaf and of ContextOnWeb with the same inconsistency. If I create a new file it usually works right; but when I overwrite an existing file subtituting a hyphen for three where the dash should be I sometimes get it right and sometimes wrong.
It is not the pdf viewer since I get good or bad results in all, the overleaf pdf preview tool, the context on web preview tool and the mozilla integrated pdf viewer.

Am I missing something on the use of this ligature? (the question is just out of curiosity, since I plan to create a command that adds a hairspace after or before the dash, since I don't like it to stick to some letters like "o".

thanks
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[NTG-context] Re: incosistent output of --- dash

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 06.04.24 um 11:43 schrieb madiazm.eoicc@gmail.com:
> Hi everyone,
> I'm a bit puzzled because I usually don't get an em-dash when I type tree hyphens. If I use the command \emdash, no problem but when I use the hyphens some days it works... and somedays I see three small hyphens.
> I tried it on overleaf and of ContextOnWeb with the same inconsistency. If I create a new file it usually works right; but when I overwrite an existing file subtituting a hyphen for three where the dash should be I sometimes get it right and sometimes wrong.
> It is not the pdf viewer since I get good or bad results in all, the overleaf pdf preview tool, the context on web preview tool and the mozilla integrated pdf viewer.
> 
> Am I missing something on the use of this ligature? (the question is just out of curiosity, since I plan to create a command that adds a hairspace after or before the dash, since I don't like it to stick to some letters like "o".

Generally, “we” try to reduce active characters as much as possible, 
that’s why -- and --- usually /don’t/ produce en or em dashes. You can 
activate these ligatures as a font feature though (AFAIR "latexhyphens", 
can’t find it…).

Some editors and some fonts do automatical replacements.

Hraban
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[NTG-context] Re: incosistent output of --- dash

[Wolfgang Schuster]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1906 bytes --]

Henning Hraban Ramm schrieb am 06.04.2024 um 12:23:
> Am 06.04.24 um 11:43 schrieb madiazm.eoicc@gmail.com:
>> Hi everyone,
>> I'm a bit puzzled because I usually don't get an em-dash when I type 
>> tree hyphens. If I use the command \emdash, no problem but when I use 
>> the hyphens some days it works... and somedays I see three small 
>> hyphens.
>> I tried it on overleaf and of ContextOnWeb with the same 
>> inconsistency. If I create a new file it usually works right; but 
>> when I overwrite an existing file subtituting a hyphen for three 
>> where the dash should be I sometimes get it right and sometimes wrong.
>> It is not the pdf viewer since I get good or bad results in all, the 
>> overleaf pdf preview tool, the context on web preview tool and the 
>> mozilla integrated pdf viewer.
>>
>> Am I missing something on the use of this ligature? (the question is 
>> just out of curiosity, since I plan to create a command that adds a 
>> hairspace after or before the dash, since I don't like it to stick to 
>> some letters like "o".
>
> Generally, “we” try to reduce active characters as much as possible, 
> that’s why -- and --- usually /don’t/ produce en or em dashes. You can 
> activate these ligatures as a font feature though (AFAIR 
> "latexhyphens", can’t find it…).

The name of the option has changes a few times and the current setting 
is textcontrol=collapsehyphens.

> Some editors and some fonts do automatical replacements.

In this case it could be the wrong symbol in the document, there are 
many dashes in unicode which look similar in the input and output files.

\starttext

\startbuffer
\starttabulate[|T||||]
\NC U+0002D \NC - \NC -- \NC --- \NC\NR
\NC U+02011 \NC ‑ \NC ‑‑ \NC ‑‑‑ \NC\NR
\NC U+02012 \NC ‒ \NC ‒‒ \NC ‒‒‒ \NC\NR
\stoptabulate
\stopbuffer

\getbuffer

\setupbodyfont[pagella]

\getbuffer

\stoptext

Wolfgang


[-- Attachment #2: hyphen.tex --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 295 bytes --]

\starttext

\startbuffer
\starttabulate[|T||||]
\NC U+0002D \NC - \NC -- \NC --- \NC\NR
\NC U+02011 \NC ‑ \NC ‑‑ \NC ‑‑‑ \NC\NR
\NC U+02012 \NC ‒ \NC ‒‒ \NC ‒‒‒ \NC\NR
\stoptabulate
\stopbuffer

\getbuffer

\setupbodyfont[pagella]

\getbuffer

\stoptext

[-- Attachment #3: hyphen.pdf --]
[-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 9266 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #4: Type: text/plain, Size: 511 bytes --]

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[NTG-context] Re: incosistent output of --- dash

[Hans Hagen]

On 4/6/2024 1:38 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Henning Hraban Ramm schrieb am 06.04.2024 um 12:23:
>> Am 06.04.24 um 11:43 schrieb madiazm.eoicc@gmail.com:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> I'm a bit puzzled because I usually don't get an em-dash when I type 
>>> tree hyphens. If I use the command \emdash, no problem but when I use 
>>> the hyphens some days it works... and somedays I see three small 
>>> hyphens.
>>> I tried it on overleaf and of ContextOnWeb with the same 
>>> inconsistency. If I create a new file it usually works right; but 
>>> when I overwrite an existing file subtituting a hyphen for three 
>>> where the dash should be I sometimes get it right and sometimes wrong.
>>> It is not the pdf viewer since I get good or bad results in all, the 
>>> overleaf pdf preview tool, the context on web preview tool and the 
>>> mozilla integrated pdf viewer.
>>>
>>> Am I missing something on the use of this ligature? (the question is 
>>> just out of curiosity, since I plan to create a command that adds a 
>>> hairspace after or before the dash, since I don't like it to stick to 
>>> some letters like "o".
>>
>> Generally, “we” try to reduce active characters as much as possible, 
>> that’s why -- and --- usually /don’t/ produce en or em dashes. You can 
>> activate these ligatures as a font feature though (AFAIR 
>> "latexhyphens", can’t find it…).
> 
> The name of the option has changes a few times and the current setting 
> is textcontrol=collapsehyphens.
> 
>> Some editors and some fonts do automatical replacements.
> 
> In this case it could be the wrong symbol in the document, there are 
> many dashes in unicode which look similar in the input and output files.
> 
> \starttext
> 
> \startbuffer
> \starttabulate[|T||||]
> \NC U+0002D \NC - \NC -- \NC --- \NC\NR
> \NC U+02011 \NC ‑ \NC ‑‑ \NC ‑‑‑ \NC\NR
> \NC U+02012 \NC ‒ \NC ‒‒ \NC ‒‒‒ \NC\NR
> \stoptabulate
> \stopbuffer
> 
> \getbuffer
> 
> \setupbodyfont[pagella]
> 
> \getbuffer
> 
> \stoptext
detail: it is not a real fontfeature (as tlig in mkiv) but implemented 
differently with a bit more control, so we have

\nohyphencollapsing
\dohyphencollapsing

etc too as control options. These collapsed hyphens are also configured 
as valid hyphenation chars.

Hans


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
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[NTG-context] Re: incosistent output of --- dash

[vm via ntg-context]

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\starttext

\startbuffer
\starttabulate[|T||||]
\NC U+0002D \NC - \NC -- \NC --- \NC\NR
\NC U+02011 \NC ‑ \NC ‑‑ \NC ‑‑‑ \NC\NR
\NC U+02012 \NC ‒ \NC ‒‒ \NC ‒‒‒ \NC\NR
\stoptabulate
\stopbuffer

\nohyphencollapsing
\getbuffer
\setupbodyfont[pagella]
\getbuffer

\dohyphencollapsing
\getbuffer
\setupbodyfont[pagella]
\getbuffer

\stoptext


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[-- Type: image/png, Size: 6461 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 511 bytes --]

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[NTG-context] Re: incosistent output of --- dash

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 4/6/24 11:43, madiazm.eoicc@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi everyone,

Hi Miguel,

> […]
> Am I missing something on the use of this ligature?

I don’t think so.

In some cases you may not get the ligature for a good reason:

  \starttyping
  program --option=value file.ext
  \stoptyping

It would make no sense to get an en-dash there (but I guess you don’t
mean that).

But all OSes provide character maps to get single characters. And also
Unicodia works fine in Windows (https://mercury13.github.io/unicodia/,
just in case it might suit your needs).

Having a single character (emoji, dashes or whatever) is way more
readable than a character combination for a ligature or a TeX command.

This single-character approach also makes easier to copy and paste text
to other formats.

> (the question is just out of curiosity, since I plan to create a
> command that adds a hairspace after or before the dash, since I don't
> like it to stick to some letters like "o").
Just consider that you should add an horizontal box (or pair both space
and hyphen), otherwise you may get a line break between character and
hyphen (instead of the hair space):

  \starttext
  \startTEXpage[offset=2st]
  \hsize\zeropoint
  this —\hairspace or so\hairspace— that

  this \hbox{—\hairspace}or so\hbox{\hairspace—} that
  \stopTEXpage
  \stoptext

Just in case it might help,

Pablo
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[NTG-context] Re: incosistent output of --- dash

[madiazm.eoicc]

thanks to all for pointing to the reason, to the collapsing command and to pablo for pointing to the hbox-trick. I will use the \emdash to ensure a right dash
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