[NTG-context] Par Builder Tests

[NTG-context] Par Builder Tests

[Keith McKay]

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Hi all,

At the end of June, Hans uploaded a new lmtx version which included 
improvements to par building which he and Mikael had been working on in 
math mode. Hans suggested in the online chat that these improvements may 
be useful in typesetting novels. I was keen to try these since I have 
typset novels in the past.

I have ran some tests on two novels which I downloaded from the 
Gutenberg Project site as epubs and extracted them to get the original 
xhtml files which I then typeset in context. I made very little in the 
way of changes to the files so that my setup for xml was very simple.

Here are my setups for the layout of the novels showing some trackers 
that were used as well:

\definepapersize[pagee][width=5.06in,height=7.81in]
\setuppapersize[pagee]
% XML setups here
\startsetups[grid][mypenalties]
\setdefaultpenalties
\setpenalties\widowpenalties{1}{150}
\setpenalties\clubpenalties {1}{150}
\stopsetups
\setuplayout[
width=10cm,
topspace=0.5in,
backspace=2.0cm,
header=7.5mm,
footer=0.25in,
location={middle,middle},
vs=2,
grid=yes,
setups=mypenalties
]
%\enabletrackers[makeup]
%\enabletrackers[builders.hpack.quality]
\enabletrackers[builders.hpack.overflow]
%\enabletrackers[layout.vz]
%\enabletrackers[paragraphs.passes]
\enabletrackers[paragraphs.passes=summary]
%\enabletrackers[paragraphs.passes=details]
\setupalign[granular]
%\setupalign[nothyphenated,hz,verytolerant]
%\setupalign[vertical,height]
%\setupalignpass[decent]
%\setupalignpass[quality]
%\setupalignpass[test1]
\setupalignpass[test2]
%\setupalignpass[test3]
%\setupalignpass[test4]
%\setupalignpass[test5]
%\setupalignpass[optional1]
%\setupalignpass[test2b]
\starttext
\setuppagenumbering[location={footer,middle},alternative=doublesided,state=start]
\setcounter[userpage][1]
%\showmakeup[vbox]
%\showlayout
\dostepwiserecurse{0}{30}{1}{
\xmlprocessfile{mysetups}{/path to xhtml 
files/4439720318703948998_84-h-\recurselevel.htm.xhtml}{}
}
\stoptext

Below are the result showing the number of overfull boxes for these 
novels using the setups in the file spac-imp-tests.mkxl . See the manual 
Low Level - Lines

Test        Novel1   Novel2
Test1        70            35
Test2        30            8
Test3        62            23
Test4        89            40
Test5        28            9
Optional1 55            19
Quality      74            32
Decent      39            11

 From these initial tests one can see that Test2 gave the lowest number 
of overfull boxes. So I edited test two, ran it, and the results are below.

Test        Novel1   Novel2

Test2b      11        0

My setup for test 2b is as follows:
\startsetups align:pass:test2b
     \pretolerance 100
     \tolerance    200
     \parpasses      3
         classes              \indecentparpassclasses
         threshold            0.025pt
         tolerance            800
         extrahyphenpenalty    50
       next
         threshold            0.025pt
         tolerance            900
         adjustspacing          3
         adjustspacingstep      1
         adjustspacingshrink   10
         adjustspacingstretch  15
     next
         threshold            0.025pt
         tolerance            1000
         adjustspacing          3
         adjustspacingstep      1
         adjustspacingshrink   20
         adjustspacingstretch  40
         emergencystretch     .25\bodyfontsize
     \relax
%     \linebreakpasses\plusone
\stopsetups
The only difference between test 2 and 2b are that I increased the 
tolerance in each of the three passes.
In novel 2 this was successful in eliminating the overfull boxes but not 
in Novel 1 although I noticed that majority of overfull boxes were above 
1pt with the largest about 12pt in Novel 1.

I am at the stage now where I need some kind of strategy to 
reduce/eliminate overfull boxes, other than changing the tolerance, and 
I'm hoping for some advice from the community. Suggestions for further 
reading particularly on the commands in \setupalignpass and their usage 
would be appreciated and on the best way to tackle overfull boxes.

Best Wishes

Keith McKay

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[NTG-context] Re: Par Builder Tests

[Hans Hagen]

On 7/21/2023 5:34 PM, Keith McKay wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> At the end of June, Hans uploaded a new lmtx version which included 
> improvements to par building which he and Mikael had been working on in 
> math mode. Hans suggested in the online chat that these improvements may 
> be useful in typesetting novels. I was keen to try these since I have 
> typset novels in the past.
> 
> I have ran some tests on two novels which I downloaded from the 
> Gutenberg Project site as epubs and extracted them to get the original 
> xhtml files which I then typeset in context. I made very little in the 
> way of changes to the files so that my setup for xml was very simple.
> 
> Here are my setups for the layout of the novels showing some trackers 
> that were used as well:
> 
> \definepapersize[pagee][width=5.06in,height=7.81in]
> \setuppapersize[pagee]
> % XML setups here
> \startsetups[grid][mypenalties]
> \setdefaultpenalties
> \setpenalties\widowpenalties{1}{150}
> \setpenalties\clubpenalties {1}{150}
> \stopsetups
> \setuplayout[
> width=10cm,
> topspace=0.5in,
> backspace=2.0cm,
> header=7.5mm,
> footer=0.25in,
> location={middle,middle},
> vs=2,
> grid=yes,
> setups=mypenalties
> ]
> %\enabletrackers[makeup]
> %\enabletrackers[builders.hpack.quality]
> \enabletrackers[builders.hpack.overflow]
> %\enabletrackers[layout.vz]
> %\enabletrackers[paragraphs.passes]
> \enabletrackers[paragraphs.passes=summary]
> %\enabletrackers[paragraphs.passes=details]
> \setupalign[granular]
> %\setupalign[nothyphenated,hz,verytolerant]
> %\setupalign[vertical,height]
> %\setupalignpass[decent]
> %\setupalignpass[quality]
> %\setupalignpass[test1]
> \setupalignpass[test2]
> %\setupalignpass[test3]
> %\setupalignpass[test4]
> %\setupalignpass[test5]
> %\setupalignpass[optional1]
> %\setupalignpass[test2b]
> \starttext
> \setuppagenumbering[location={footer,middle},alternative=doublesided,state=start]
> \setcounter[userpage][1]
> %\showmakeup[vbox]
> %\showlayout
> \dostepwiserecurse{0}{30}{1}{
> \xmlprocessfile{mysetups}{/path to xhtml 
> files/4439720318703948998_84-h-\recurselevel.htm.xhtml}{}
> }
> \stoptext
> 
> Below are the result showing the number of overfull boxes for these 
> novels using the setups in the file spac-imp-tests.mkxl . See the manual 
> Low Level - Lines
> 
> Test        Novel1   Novel2
> Test1        70            35
> Test2        30            8
> Test3        62            23
> Test4        89            40
> Test5        28            9
> Optional1 55            19
> Quality      74            32
> Decent      39            11
> 
>  From these initial tests one can see that Test2 gave the lowest number 
> of overfull boxes. So I edited test two, ran it, and the results are below.
> 
> Test        Novel1   Novel2
> 
> Test2b      11        0
> 
> My setup for test 2b is as follows:
> \startsetups align:pass:test2b
>      \pretolerance 100
>      \tolerance    200
>      \parpasses      3
>          classes              \indecentparpassclasses
>          threshold            0.025pt
>          tolerance            800
>          extrahyphenpenalty    50
>        next
>          threshold            0.025pt
>          tolerance            900
>          adjustspacing          3
>          adjustspacingstep      1
>          adjustspacingshrink   10
>          adjustspacingstretch  15
>      next
>          threshold            0.025pt
>          tolerance            1000
>          adjustspacing          3
>          adjustspacingstep      1
>          adjustspacingshrink   20
>          adjustspacingstretch  40
>          emergencystretch     .25\bodyfontsize
>      \relax
> %     \linebreakpasses\plusone
> \stopsetups
> The only difference between test 2 and 2b are that I increased the 
> tolerance in each of the three passes.
> In novel 2 this was successful in eliminating the overfull boxes but not 
> in Novel 1 although I noticed that majority of overfull boxes were above 
> 1pt with the largest about 12pt in Novel 1.
> 
> I am at the stage now where I need some kind of strategy to 
> reduce/eliminate overfull boxes, other than changing the tolerance, and 
> I'm hoping for some advice from the community. Suggestions for further 
> reading particularly on the commands in \setupalignpass and their usage 
> would be appreciated and on the best way to tackle overfull boxes.
you're too tolerant (stick to 200), you can even start out with 
pretolerance 50 and tolerance 150 and then in the passes 200

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

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___________________________________________________________________________________

[NTG-context] Re: Par Builder Tests

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

Hi Keith,

Here an example that Mikael made for such a book:

\showframe

% let's very strict

\startsetups [*default]

     \directsetup{*reset}

     \frozen\widowpenalty        10000
     \frozen\clubpenalty         10000
     \frozen\displaywidowpenalty 10000
     \frozen\brokenpenalty       0 % \defaultbrokenpenalty

\stopsetups

% we enable the use of expansion (this feature might become preset
% because we now delay setting the vectors anyway so less overhead)

\definefontfeature
   [default]
   [default]
   [expansion=quality,
    protrusion=quality,
    itlc=yes]

% vertical expansion

\setuplayout
   [vz=2]

% for which we need:

% \setupalign[hanging,depth,stretch,granular]

\setupalign[depth,stretch,granular]

% here are the passes:

\startsetups align:pass:test4
     \pretolerance 100
     \tolerance    200
     \parpasses    4
         classes              \indecentparpassclasses
         threshold            0.025pt
         adjustspacing          3
         adjustspacingstep      1
         adjustspacingshrink    5
         adjustspacingstretch  10
     next
         classes              \indecentparpassclasses
         threshold            0.025pt
         adjustspacing          3
         adjustspacingstep      1
         adjustspacingshrink   10
         adjustspacingstretch  20
     next
         classes              \indecentparpassclasses
         threshold            0.025pt
         adjustspacing          3
         adjustspacingstep      1
         adjustspacingshrink   25
         adjustspacingstretch  50
     next
         classes              \indecentparpassclasses
         threshold            0.025pt
         adjustspacing          3
         adjustspacingstep      1
         adjustspacingshrink   50
         adjustspacingstretch 100
     \relax
\stopsetups

\setupalignpass[test4]

\starttext
     ...
\stoptext

(work in progress so keep an eye on updates)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

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___________________________________________________________________________________

[NTG-context] Re: Par Builder Tests

[Keith McKay]

Thanks Hans!

I'll have a play and keep an eye on updates

Best Wishes

Keith

On 21/07/2023 17:10, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> Hi Keith,
>
> Here an example that Mikael made for such a book:
>
> \showframe
>
> % let's very strict
>
> \startsetups [*default]
>
>     \directsetup{*reset}
>
>     \frozen\widowpenalty        10000
>     \frozen\clubpenalty         10000
>     \frozen\displaywidowpenalty 10000
>     \frozen\brokenpenalty       0 % \defaultbrokenpenalty
>
> \stopsetups
>
> % we enable the use of expansion (this feature might become preset
> % because we now delay setting the vectors anyway so less overhead)
>
> \definefontfeature
>   [default]
>   [default]
>   [expansion=quality,
>    protrusion=quality,
>    itlc=yes]
>
> % vertical expansion
>
> \setuplayout
>   [vz=2]
>
> % for which we need:
>
> % \setupalign[hanging,depth,stretch,granular]
>
> \setupalign[depth,stretch,granular]
>
> % here are the passes:
>
> \startsetups align:pass:test4
>     \pretolerance 100
>     \tolerance    200
>     \parpasses    4
>         classes              \indecentparpassclasses
>         threshold            0.025pt
>         adjustspacing          3
>         adjustspacingstep      1
>         adjustspacingshrink    5
>         adjustspacingstretch  10
>     next
>         classes              \indecentparpassclasses
>         threshold            0.025pt
>         adjustspacing          3
>         adjustspacingstep      1
>         adjustspacingshrink   10
>         adjustspacingstretch  20
>     next
>         classes              \indecentparpassclasses
>         threshold            0.025pt
>         adjustspacing          3
>         adjustspacingstep      1
>         adjustspacingshrink   25
>         adjustspacingstretch  50
>     next
>         classes              \indecentparpassclasses
>         threshold            0.025pt
>         adjustspacing          3
>         adjustspacingstep      1
>         adjustspacingshrink   50
>         adjustspacingstretch 100
>     \relax
> \stopsetups
>
> \setupalignpass[test4]
>
> \starttext
>     ...
> \stoptext
>
> (work in progress so keep an eye on updates)
>
> Hans
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________ 
>
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry 
> to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki     : https://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________ 
>
___________________________________________________________________________________
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___________________________________________________________________________________

[NTG-context] Re: Par Builder Tests

[Keith McKay]

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Hi all!

Using the example below I have completed a test using a larger book. 
This time I downloaded War and Peace from the Gutenberg Project and 
extracted the individual xhtml files for Context.

I played around with the setups for the align:pass:test4 code below, as 
Hans suggested, and it was changing the \tolerance value which made the 
difference. Increasing the \tolerance value to 1000 eliminated all 
overfull hboxes but still left 79 underfull hboxes. I continued to 
increase the \tolerance value up to 6600 and was left with two overfull 
hboxes. One with a badness of 6641 (warAndPeace1.png) and one with a 
badness of 1097 (warAndPeace2.png). Above the \tolerance of 6600 only 
warAndPeace2.png was left with a badness of 1097. Both of these 
underfull hboxes were at the beginning of a paragraph - "To his Honor" 
in the first png and "Well, you see," in the second png. I not sure a 
reader would spot the second png badness but the first is noticeable to 
my eyes.

I'm very pleased how the book has turned out, all 1668 pages of it as an 
approximately 13cm by 20cm book. The pdf is 4MB and each run in ConTeXt 
takes about 10 seconds on my M1 mac mini.

I'm interested in seeing how \setupalignpass develops and learning more 
of how to use it.

Best Wishes

Keith McKay

On 21/07/2023 17:33, Keith McKay wrote:
> Thanks Hans!
>
> I'll have a play and keep an eye on updates
>
> Best Wishes
>
> Keith
>
> On 21/07/2023 17:10, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
>> Hi Keith,
>>
>> Here an example that Mikael made for such a book:
>>
>> \showframe
>>
>> % let's very strict
>>
>> \startsetups [*default]
>>
>>     \directsetup{*reset}
>>
>>     \frozen\widowpenalty        10000
>>     \frozen\clubpenalty         10000
>>     \frozen\displaywidowpenalty 10000
>>     \frozen\brokenpenalty       0 % \defaultbrokenpenalty
>>
>> \stopsetups
>>
>> % we enable the use of expansion (this feature might become preset
>> % because we now delay setting the vectors anyway so less overhead)
>>
>> \definefontfeature
>>   [default]
>>   [default]
>>   [expansion=quality,
>>    protrusion=quality,
>>    itlc=yes]
>>
>> % vertical expansion
>>
>> \setuplayout
>>   [vz=2]
>>
>> % for which we need:
>>
>> % \setupalign[hanging,depth,stretch,granular]
>>
>> \setupalign[depth,stretch,granular]
>>
>> % here are the passes:
>>
>> \startsetups align:pass:test4
>>     \pretolerance 100
>>     \tolerance    200
>>     \parpasses    4
>>         classes              \indecentparpassclasses
>>         threshold            0.025pt
>>         adjustspacing          3
>>         adjustspacingstep      1
>>         adjustspacingshrink    5
>>         adjustspacingstretch  10
>>     next
>>         classes              \indecentparpassclasses
>>         threshold            0.025pt
>>         adjustspacing          3
>>         adjustspacingstep      1
>>         adjustspacingshrink   10
>>         adjustspacingstretch  20
>>     next
>>         classes              \indecentparpassclasses
>>         threshold            0.025pt
>>         adjustspacing          3
>>         adjustspacingstep      1
>>         adjustspacingshrink   25
>>         adjustspacingstretch  50
>>     next
>>         classes              \indecentparpassclasses
>>         threshold            0.025pt
>>         adjustspacing          3
>>         adjustspacingstep      1
>>         adjustspacingshrink   50
>>         adjustspacingstretch 100
>>     \relax
>> \stopsetups
>>
>> \setupalignpass[test4]
>>
>> \starttext
>>     ...
>> \stoptext
>>
>> (work in progress so keep an eye on updates)
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>>               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>>        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________ 
>>
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an 
>> entry to the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
>> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
>> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
>> wiki     : https://contextgarden.net
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________ 
>>

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___________________________________________________________________________________

[NTG-context] Re: Par Builder Tests

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 28.07.23 um 17:04 schrieb Keith McKay:
> I played around with the setups for the align:pass:test4 code below, as 
> Hans suggested, and it was changing the \tolerance value which made the 
> difference. Increasing the \tolerance value to 1000 eliminated all 
> overfull hboxes but still left 79 underfull hboxes. I continued to 
> increase the \tolerance value up to 6600 and was left with two overfull 
> hboxes. One with a badness of 6641 (warAndPeace1.png) and one with a 
> badness of 1097 (warAndPeace2.png). Above the \tolerance of 6600 only 
> warAndPeace2.png was left with a badness of 1097. Both of these 
> underfull hboxes were at the beginning of a paragraph - "To his Honor" 
> in the first png and "Well, you see," in the second png. I not sure a 
> reader would spot the second png badness but the first is noticeable to 
> my eyes.

Hi Keith,
since both cases are caused by names with accents, did you try to add 
hyphenation exceptions for those? Such cases are probably not covered by 
English hyphentation rules.

Hraban

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___________________________________________________________________________________

[NTG-context] Re: Par Builder Tests

[Keith McKay]

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Thanks Hraban, didn't think of that so will give it a try.
Best Wishes
Keith


On Fri, 28 Jul 2023, 17:28 Henning Hraban Ramm, <texml@fiee.net> wrote:

> Am 28.07.23 um 17:04 schrieb Keith McKay:
> > I played around with the setups for the align:pass:test4 code below, as
> > Hans suggested, and it was changing the \tolerance value which made the
> > difference. Increasing the \tolerance value to 1000 eliminated all
> > overfull hboxes but still left 79 underfull hboxes. I continued to
> > increase the \tolerance value up to 6600 and was left with two overfull
> > hboxes. One with a badness of 6641 (warAndPeace1.png) and one with a
> > badness of 1097 (warAndPeace2.png). Above the \tolerance of 6600 only
> > warAndPeace2.png was left with a badness of 1097. Both of these
> > underfull hboxes were at the beginning of a paragraph - "To his Honor"
> > in the first png and "Well, you see," in the second png. I not sure a
> > reader would spot the second png badness but the first is noticeable to
> > my eyes.
>
> Hi Keith,
> since both cases are caused by names with accents, did you try to add
> hyphenation exceptions for those? Such cases are probably not covered by
> English hyphentation rules.
>
> Hraban
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki     : https://contextgarden.net
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

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[NTG-context] Re: Par Builder Tests

[Keith McKay]

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Hraban's suggestion works really well. I setup hyphenation rules for the 
underfull boxes of Russian names and reduced the \tolerance to 600.  I'm 
now down to about 20 underfull boxes which to my eyes look fine.

Thanks again Hraban

Best Wishes

Keith

On 28/07/2023 19:20, Keith McKay wrote:

> Thanks Hraban, didn't think of that so will give it a try.
> Best Wishes
> Keith
>
>
> On Fri, 28 Jul 2023, 17:28 Henning Hraban Ramm, <texml@fiee.net> wrote:
>
>     Am 28.07.23 um 17:04 schrieb Keith McKay:
>     > I played around with the setups for the align:pass:test4 code
>     below, as
>     > Hans suggested, and it was changing the \tolerance value which
>     made the
>     > difference. Increasing the \tolerance value to 1000 eliminated all
>     > overfull hboxes but still left 79 underfull hboxes. I continued to
>     > increase the \tolerance value up to 6600 and was left with two
>     overfull
>     > hboxes. One with a badness of 6641 (warAndPeace1.png) and one
>     with a
>     > badness of 1097 (warAndPeace2.png). Above the \tolerance of 6600
>     only
>     > warAndPeace2.png was left with a badness of 1097. Both of these
>     > underfull hboxes were at the beginning of a paragraph - "To his
>     Honor"
>     > in the first png and "Well, you see," in the second png. I not
>     sure a
>     > reader would spot the second png badness but the first is
>     noticeable to
>     > my eyes.
>
>     Hi Keith,
>     since both cases are caused by names with accents, did you try to add
>     hyphenation exceptions for those? Such cases are probably not
>     covered by
>     English hyphentation rules.
>
>     Hraban
>
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[NTG-context] Bibliography cite

[Robert via ntg-context]

Dear List members,

For my academic work with context I need the following cite according to Apa standards:

Knuth (1984, p. 12) mentions ….

The matrix is this:

AUTHOR (YYYY, p.~n).

I reckon this can somehow be accomplished with the \setupbtx command.

(Standard these and other variants are possible: AUTHOR (YYYY) and AUTHOR YYYY, p. n.)

I tried different setups: \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryear], and \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryears], I played with the lefttext, righttext and other options, but none of them give the desired result.

Thank you for any suggestions.

Regards,

Robert



@article{Knuth1984,
author={Knuth, Donald E.},
title={Literate Programming},
journal={The Computer Journal}, Volume={27}, Number={2}, year={1984}, 
Pages={97--111}, 
}

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[NTG-context] Re: Bibliography cite

[Alan Braslau via ntg-context]

Using the APA specification:

\usebtxdefinitions
     [apa]


you can then

\cite[alternative=authoryears,righttext={{, p.\nbsp 12}}] [Knuth1984]
mentions ….


The tricky part concerning righttext= is the double {{ }}, needed 
because the text contains a comma. The reason for this is simple, as 
righttext is a comma-separated list, where each entry corresponds to a 
cited reference, as in \cite[righttext={a,b}] [ref1,ref2]
so a is associated with ref1 and b is associated with ref2.

Alan



On 01/08/23 01/08/23, 15:37, Robert via ntg-context wrote:
> Dear List members,
> 
> For my academic work with context I need the following cite according to Apa standards:
> 
> Knuth (1984, p. 12) mentions ….
> 
> The matrix is this:
> 
> AUTHOR (YYYY, p.~n).
> 
> I reckon this can somehow be accomplished with the \setupbtx command.
> 
> (Standard these and other variants are possible: AUTHOR (YYYY) and AUTHOR YYYY, p. n.)
> 
> I tried different setups: \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryear], and \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryears], I played with the lefttext, righttext and other options, but none of them give the desired result.
> 
> Thank you for any suggestions.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robert
> 
> 
> 
> @article{Knuth1984,
> author={Knuth, Donald E.},
> title={Literate Programming},
> journal={The Computer Journal}, Volume={27}, Number={2}, year={1984},
> Pages={97--111},
> }
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[NTG-context] Re: Bibliography cite

[Robert via ntg-context]

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Thank you, Alan for the suggestion.

I tried as you said: \cite[alternative=authoryears,righttext={{, p. 3}}][Knuth1984].

Yet the result is this: Knuth (1984), , p. 3 

If I leave out the first comma, the result is: Knuth (1984), p. 3 

Righttext probably refers to the text outside the parentheses.

Thank you in advance,

Robert.


> Op 1 aug. 2023, om 22:42 heeft Alan Braslau <alan.braslau@icloud.com> het volgende geschreven:
> 
> Using the APA specification:
> 
> \usebtxdefinitions
>    [apa]
> 
> 
> you can then
> 
> \cite[alternative=authoryears,righttext={{, p.\nbsp 12}}] [Knuth1984]
> mentions ….
> 
> 
> The tricky part concerning righttext= is the double {{ }}, needed because the text contains a comma. The reason for this is simple, as righttext is a comma-separated list, where each entry corresponds to a cited reference, as in \cite[righttext={a,b}] [ref1,ref2]
> so a is associated with ref1 and b is associated with ref2.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
> 
> On 01/08/23 01/08/23, 15:37, Robert via ntg-context wrote:
>> Dear List members,
>> For my academic work with context I need the following cite according to Apa standards:
>> Knuth (1984, p. 12) mentions ….
>> The matrix is this:
>> AUTHOR (YYYY, p.~n).
>> I reckon this can somehow be accomplished with the \setupbtx command.
>> (Standard these and other variants are possible: AUTHOR (YYYY) and AUTHOR YYYY, p. n.)
>> I tried different setups: \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryear], and \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryears], I played with the lefttext, righttext and other options, but none of them give the desired result.
>> Thank you for any suggestions.
>> Regards,
>> Robert
>> @article{Knuth1984,
>> author={Knuth, Donald E.},
>> title={Literate Programming},
>> journal={The Computer Journal}, Volume={27}, Number={2}, year={1984},
>> Pages={97--111},
>> }


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[NTG-context] Re: Bibliography cite

[Alan Braslau via ntg-context]

Indeed, one does not need the comma, it is programmed in the style.
You can see this in the manual, on p. 43 documenting citations.

The style is setup to put the righttext inside the parenthesis for 
alternative=authoryear and outside of the year parenthesis for 
alternative=authoryears.

I looked carefully in the APA Style Guide and did not find any 
suggestion that one should use Knuth (1984, p. 3). The variant (Knuth, 
1984, p. 3) is documented.

You can make the following changes (untested)
\setupbtx [apa:cite:author:years] [right=]
\setupbtx [apa:cite:authoryears] [right={)}]
to get the other behavior.

--
Alan


On 01/08/23 01/08/23, 23:26, Robert via ntg-context wrote:
> Thank you, Alan for the suggestion.
> 
> I tried as you said: \cite[alternative=authoryears,righttext={{, p. 
> 3}}][Knuth1984].
> 
> Yet the result is this: Knuth (1984), , p. 3
> 
> If I leave out the first comma, the result is: Knuth (1984), p. 3
> 
> Righttext probably refers to the text outside the parentheses.
> 
> Thank you in advance,
> 
> Robert.
> 
> 
>> Op 1 aug. 2023, om 22:42 heeft Alan Braslau <alan.braslau@icloud.com> 
>> het volgende geschreven:
>>
>> Using the APA specification:
>>
>> \usebtxdefinitions
>>    [apa]
>>
>>
>> you can then
>>
>> \cite[alternative=authoryears,righttext={{, p.\nbsp 12}}] [Knuth1984]
>> mentions ….
>>
>>
>> The tricky part concerning righttext= is the double {{ }}, needed 
>> because the text contains a comma. The reason for this is simple, as 
>> righttext is a comma-separated list, where each entry corresponds to a 
>> cited reference, as in \cite[righttext={a,b}] [ref1,ref2]
>> so a is associated with ref1 and b is associated with ref2.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 01/08/23 01/08/23, 15:37, Robert via ntg-context wrote:
>>> Dear List members,
>>> For my academic work with context I need the following cite according 
>>> to Apa standards:
>>> Knuth (1984, p. 12) mentions ….
>>> The matrix is this:
>>> AUTHOR (YYYY, p.~n).
>>> I reckon this can somehow be accomplished with the \setupbtx command.
>>> (Standard these and other variants are possible: AUTHOR (YYYY) and 
>>> AUTHOR YYYY, p. n.)
>>> I tried different setups: \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryear], and 
>>> \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryears], I played with the lefttext, 
>>> righttext and other options, but none of them give the desired result.
>>> Thank you for any suggestions.
>>> Regards,
>>> Robert
>>> @article{Knuth1984,
>>> author={Knuth, Donald E.},
>>> title={Literate Programming},
>>> journal={The Computer Journal}, Volume={27}, Number={2}, year={1984},
>>> Pages={97--111},
>>> }
>
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[NTG-context] Re: Bibliography cite

[Robert via ntg-context]

Dear Alan,

Thanks for your response. What I need in fact is this

Knuth (1984:12).

I am sorry for the confusion.

I will try your suggestions!

Robert


> Op 4 aug. 2023, om 13:57 heeft Alan Braslau <alan.braslau@icloud.com> het volgende geschreven:
> 
> Indeed, one does not need the comma, it is programmed in the style.
> You can see this in the manual, on p. 43 documenting citations.
> 
> The style is setup to put the righttext inside the parenthesis for alternative=authoryear and outside of the year parenthesis for alternative=authoryears.
> 
> I looked carefully in the APA Style Guide and did not find any suggestion that one should use Knuth (1984, p. 3). The variant (Knuth, 1984, p. 3) is documented.
> 
> You can make the following changes (untested)
> \setupbtx [apa:cite:author:years] [right=]
> \setupbtx [apa:cite:authoryears] [right={)}]
> to get the other behavior.
> 
> --
> Alan
> 
> 
> On 01/08/23 01/08/23, 23:26, Robert via ntg-context wrote:
>> Thank you, Alan for the suggestion.
>> I tried as you said: \cite[alternative=authoryears,righttext={{, p. 3}}][Knuth1984].
>> Yet the result is this: Knuth (1984), , p. 3
>> If I leave out the first comma, the result is: Knuth (1984), p. 3
>> Righttext probably refers to the text outside the parentheses.
>> Thank you in advance,
>> Robert.
>>> Op 1 aug. 2023, om 22:42 heeft Alan Braslau <alan.braslau@icloud.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>> 
>>> Using the APA specification:
>>> 
>>> \usebtxdefinitions
>>>    [apa]
>>> 
>>> 
>>> you can then
>>> 
>>> \cite[alternative=authoryears,righttext={{, p.\nbsp 12}}] [Knuth1984]
>>> mentions ….
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The tricky part concerning righttext= is the double {{ }}, needed because the text contains a comma. The reason for this is simple, as righttext is a comma-separated list, where each entry corresponds to a cited reference, as in \cite[righttext={a,b}] [ref1,ref2]
>>> so a is associated with ref1 and b is associated with ref2.
>>> 
>>> Alan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 01/08/23 01/08/23, 15:37, Robert via ntg-context wrote:
>>>> Dear List members,
>>>> For my academic work with context I need the following cite according to Apa standards:
>>>> Knuth (1984, p. 12) mentions ….
>>>> The matrix is this:
>>>> AUTHOR (YYYY, p.~n).
>>>> I reckon this can somehow be accomplished with the \setupbtx command.
>>>> (Standard these and other variants are possible: AUTHOR (YYYY) and AUTHOR YYYY, p. n.)
>>>> I tried different setups: \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryear], and \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryears], I played with the lefttext, righttext and other options, but none of them give the desired result.
>>>> Thank you for any suggestions.
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Robert
>>>> @article{Knuth1984,
>>>> author={Knuth, Donald E.},
>>>> title={Literate Programming},
>>>> journal={The Computer Journal}, Volume={27}, Number={2}, year={1984},
>>>> Pages={97--111},
>>>> }
>> 

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