* [NTG-context] Par Builder Tests
@ 2023-07-21 15:34 Keith McKay
2023-07-21 15:53 ` [NTG-context] " Hans Hagen
2023-07-21 16:10 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context
0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Keith McKay @ 2023-07-21 15:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4525 bytes --]
Hi all,
At the end of June, Hans uploaded a new lmtx version which included
improvements to par building which he and Mikael had been working on in
math mode. Hans suggested in the online chat that these improvements may
be useful in typesetting novels. I was keen to try these since I have
typset novels in the past.
I have ran some tests on two novels which I downloaded from the
Gutenberg Project site as epubs and extracted them to get the original
xhtml files which I then typeset in context. I made very little in the
way of changes to the files so that my setup for xml was very simple.
Here are my setups for the layout of the novels showing some trackers
that were used as well:
\definepapersize[pagee][width=5.06in,height=7.81in]
\setuppapersize[pagee]
% XML setups here
\startsetups[grid][mypenalties]
\setdefaultpenalties
\setpenalties\widowpenalties{1}{150}
\setpenalties\clubpenalties {1}{150}
\stopsetups
\setuplayout[
width=10cm,
topspace=0.5in,
backspace=2.0cm,
header=7.5mm,
footer=0.25in,
location={middle,middle},
vs=2,
grid=yes,
setups=mypenalties
]
%\enabletrackers[makeup]
%\enabletrackers[builders.hpack.quality]
\enabletrackers[builders.hpack.overflow]
%\enabletrackers[layout.vz]
%\enabletrackers[paragraphs.passes]
\enabletrackers[paragraphs.passes=summary]
%\enabletrackers[paragraphs.passes=details]
\setupalign[granular]
%\setupalign[nothyphenated,hz,verytolerant]
%\setupalign[vertical,height]
%\setupalignpass[decent]
%\setupalignpass[quality]
%\setupalignpass[test1]
\setupalignpass[test2]
%\setupalignpass[test3]
%\setupalignpass[test4]
%\setupalignpass[test5]
%\setupalignpass[optional1]
%\setupalignpass[test2b]
\starttext
\setuppagenumbering[location={footer,middle},alternative=doublesided,state=start]
\setcounter[userpage][1]
%\showmakeup[vbox]
%\showlayout
\dostepwiserecurse{0}{30}{1}{
\xmlprocessfile{mysetups}{/path to xhtml
files/4439720318703948998_84-h-\recurselevel.htm.xhtml}{}
}
\stoptext
Below are the result showing the number of overfull boxes for these
novels using the setups in the file spac-imp-tests.mkxl . See the manual
Low Level - Lines
Test Novel1 Novel2
Test1 70 35
Test2 30 8
Test3 62 23
Test4 89 40
Test5 28 9
Optional1 55 19
Quality 74 32
Decent 39 11
From these initial tests one can see that Test2 gave the lowest number
of overfull boxes. So I edited test two, ran it, and the results are below.
Test Novel1 Novel2
Test2b 11 0
My setup for test 2b is as follows:
\startsetups align:pass:test2b
\pretolerance 100
\tolerance 200
\parpasses 3
classes \indecentparpassclasses
threshold 0.025pt
tolerance 800
extrahyphenpenalty 50
next
threshold 0.025pt
tolerance 900
adjustspacing 3
adjustspacingstep 1
adjustspacingshrink 10
adjustspacingstretch 15
next
threshold 0.025pt
tolerance 1000
adjustspacing 3
adjustspacingstep 1
adjustspacingshrink 20
adjustspacingstretch 40
emergencystretch .25\bodyfontsize
\relax
% \linebreakpasses\plusone
\stopsetups
The only difference between test 2 and 2b are that I increased the
tolerance in each of the three passes.
In novel 2 this was successful in eliminating the overfull boxes but not
in Novel 1 although I noticed that majority of overfull boxes were above
1pt with the largest about 12pt in Novel 1.
I am at the stage now where I need some kind of strategy to
reduce/eliminate overfull boxes, other than changing the tolerance, and
I'm hoping for some advice from the community. Suggestions for further
reading particularly on the commands in \setupalignpass and their usage
would be appreciated and on the best way to tackle overfull boxes.
Best Wishes
Keith McKay
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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [NTG-context] Re: Par Builder Tests
2023-07-21 15:34 [NTG-context] Par Builder Tests Keith McKay
@ 2023-07-21 15:53 ` Hans Hagen
2023-07-21 16:10 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context
1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2023-07-21 15:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Keith McKay, mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 7/21/2023 5:34 PM, Keith McKay wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> At the end of June, Hans uploaded a new lmtx version which included
> improvements to par building which he and Mikael had been working on in
> math mode. Hans suggested in the online chat that these improvements may
> be useful in typesetting novels. I was keen to try these since I have
> typset novels in the past.
>
> I have ran some tests on two novels which I downloaded from the
> Gutenberg Project site as epubs and extracted them to get the original
> xhtml files which I then typeset in context. I made very little in the
> way of changes to the files so that my setup for xml was very simple.
>
> Here are my setups for the layout of the novels showing some trackers
> that were used as well:
>
> \definepapersize[pagee][width=5.06in,height=7.81in]
> \setuppapersize[pagee]
> % XML setups here
> \startsetups[grid][mypenalties]
> \setdefaultpenalties
> \setpenalties\widowpenalties{1}{150}
> \setpenalties\clubpenalties {1}{150}
> \stopsetups
> \setuplayout[
> width=10cm,
> topspace=0.5in,
> backspace=2.0cm,
> header=7.5mm,
> footer=0.25in,
> location={middle,middle},
> vs=2,
> grid=yes,
> setups=mypenalties
> ]
> %\enabletrackers[makeup]
> %\enabletrackers[builders.hpack.quality]
> \enabletrackers[builders.hpack.overflow]
> %\enabletrackers[layout.vz]
> %\enabletrackers[paragraphs.passes]
> \enabletrackers[paragraphs.passes=summary]
> %\enabletrackers[paragraphs.passes=details]
> \setupalign[granular]
> %\setupalign[nothyphenated,hz,verytolerant]
> %\setupalign[vertical,height]
> %\setupalignpass[decent]
> %\setupalignpass[quality]
> %\setupalignpass[test1]
> \setupalignpass[test2]
> %\setupalignpass[test3]
> %\setupalignpass[test4]
> %\setupalignpass[test5]
> %\setupalignpass[optional1]
> %\setupalignpass[test2b]
> \starttext
> \setuppagenumbering[location={footer,middle},alternative=doublesided,state=start]
> \setcounter[userpage][1]
> %\showmakeup[vbox]
> %\showlayout
> \dostepwiserecurse{0}{30}{1}{
> \xmlprocessfile{mysetups}{/path to xhtml
> files/4439720318703948998_84-h-\recurselevel.htm.xhtml}{}
> }
> \stoptext
>
> Below are the result showing the number of overfull boxes for these
> novels using the setups in the file spac-imp-tests.mkxl . See the manual
> Low Level - Lines
>
> Test Novel1 Novel2
> Test1 70 35
> Test2 30 8
> Test3 62 23
> Test4 89 40
> Test5 28 9
> Optional1 55 19
> Quality 74 32
> Decent 39 11
>
> From these initial tests one can see that Test2 gave the lowest number
> of overfull boxes. So I edited test two, ran it, and the results are below.
>
> Test Novel1 Novel2
>
> Test2b 11 0
>
> My setup for test 2b is as follows:
> \startsetups align:pass:test2b
> \pretolerance 100
> \tolerance 200
> \parpasses 3
> classes \indecentparpassclasses
> threshold 0.025pt
> tolerance 800
> extrahyphenpenalty 50
> next
> threshold 0.025pt
> tolerance 900
> adjustspacing 3
> adjustspacingstep 1
> adjustspacingshrink 10
> adjustspacingstretch 15
> next
> threshold 0.025pt
> tolerance 1000
> adjustspacing 3
> adjustspacingstep 1
> adjustspacingshrink 20
> adjustspacingstretch 40
> emergencystretch .25\bodyfontsize
> \relax
> % \linebreakpasses\plusone
> \stopsetups
> The only difference between test 2 and 2b are that I increased the
> tolerance in each of the three passes.
> In novel 2 this was successful in eliminating the overfull boxes but not
> in Novel 1 although I noticed that majority of overfull boxes were above
> 1pt with the largest about 12pt in Novel 1.
>
> I am at the stage now where I need some kind of strategy to
> reduce/eliminate overfull boxes, other than changing the tolerance, and
> I'm hoping for some advice from the community. Suggestions for further
> reading particularly on the commands in \setupalignpass and their usage
> would be appreciated and on the best way to tackle overfull boxes.
you're too tolerant (stick to 200), you can even start out with
pretolerance 50 and tolerance 150 and then in the passes 200
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [NTG-context] Re: Par Builder Tests
2023-07-21 15:34 [NTG-context] Par Builder Tests Keith McKay
2023-07-21 15:53 ` [NTG-context] " Hans Hagen
@ 2023-07-21 16:10 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context
2023-07-21 16:33 ` Keith McKay
1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen via ntg-context @ 2023-07-21 16:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context; +Cc: Hans Hagen
Hi Keith,
Here an example that Mikael made for such a book:
\showframe
% let's very strict
\startsetups [*default]
\directsetup{*reset}
\frozen\widowpenalty 10000
\frozen\clubpenalty 10000
\frozen\displaywidowpenalty 10000
\frozen\brokenpenalty 0 % \defaultbrokenpenalty
\stopsetups
% we enable the use of expansion (this feature might become preset
% because we now delay setting the vectors anyway so less overhead)
\definefontfeature
[default]
[default]
[expansion=quality,
protrusion=quality,
itlc=yes]
% vertical expansion
\setuplayout
[vz=2]
% for which we need:
% \setupalign[hanging,depth,stretch,granular]
\setupalign[depth,stretch,granular]
% here are the passes:
\startsetups align:pass:test4
\pretolerance 100
\tolerance 200
\parpasses 4
classes \indecentparpassclasses
threshold 0.025pt
adjustspacing 3
adjustspacingstep 1
adjustspacingshrink 5
adjustspacingstretch 10
next
classes \indecentparpassclasses
threshold 0.025pt
adjustspacing 3
adjustspacingstep 1
adjustspacingshrink 10
adjustspacingstretch 20
next
classes \indecentparpassclasses
threshold 0.025pt
adjustspacing 3
adjustspacingstep 1
adjustspacingshrink 25
adjustspacingstretch 50
next
classes \indecentparpassclasses
threshold 0.025pt
adjustspacing 3
adjustspacingstep 1
adjustspacingshrink 50
adjustspacingstretch 100
\relax
\stopsetups
\setupalignpass[test4]
\starttext
...
\stoptext
(work in progress so keep an eye on updates)
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [NTG-context] Re: Par Builder Tests
2023-07-21 16:10 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context
@ 2023-07-21 16:33 ` Keith McKay
2023-07-28 15:04 ` Keith McKay
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Keith McKay @ 2023-07-21 16:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
Thanks Hans!
I'll have a play and keep an eye on updates
Best Wishes
Keith
On 21/07/2023 17:10, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> Hi Keith,
>
> Here an example that Mikael made for such a book:
>
> \showframe
>
> % let's very strict
>
> \startsetups [*default]
>
> \directsetup{*reset}
>
> \frozen\widowpenalty 10000
> \frozen\clubpenalty 10000
> \frozen\displaywidowpenalty 10000
> \frozen\brokenpenalty 0 % \defaultbrokenpenalty
>
> \stopsetups
>
> % we enable the use of expansion (this feature might become preset
> % because we now delay setting the vectors anyway so less overhead)
>
> \definefontfeature
> [default]
> [default]
> [expansion=quality,
> protrusion=quality,
> itlc=yes]
>
> % vertical expansion
>
> \setuplayout
> [vz=2]
>
> % for which we need:
>
> % \setupalign[hanging,depth,stretch,granular]
>
> \setupalign[depth,stretch,granular]
>
> % here are the passes:
>
> \startsetups align:pass:test4
> \pretolerance 100
> \tolerance 200
> \parpasses 4
> classes \indecentparpassclasses
> threshold 0.025pt
> adjustspacing 3
> adjustspacingstep 1
> adjustspacingshrink 5
> adjustspacingstretch 10
> next
> classes \indecentparpassclasses
> threshold 0.025pt
> adjustspacing 3
> adjustspacingstep 1
> adjustspacingshrink 10
> adjustspacingstretch 20
> next
> classes \indecentparpassclasses
> threshold 0.025pt
> adjustspacing 3
> adjustspacingstep 1
> adjustspacingshrink 25
> adjustspacingstretch 50
> next
> classes \indecentparpassclasses
> threshold 0.025pt
> adjustspacing 3
> adjustspacingstep 1
> adjustspacingshrink 50
> adjustspacingstretch 100
> \relax
> \stopsetups
>
> \setupalignpass[test4]
>
> \starttext
> ...
> \stoptext
>
> (work in progress so keep an eye on updates)
>
> Hans
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry
> to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [NTG-context] Re: Par Builder Tests
2023-07-21 16:33 ` Keith McKay
@ 2023-07-28 15:04 ` Keith McKay
2023-07-28 16:22 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Keith McKay @ 2023-07-28 15:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ntg-context
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4957 bytes --]
Hi all!
Using the example below I have completed a test using a larger book.
This time I downloaded War and Peace from the Gutenberg Project and
extracted the individual xhtml files for Context.
I played around with the setups for the align:pass:test4 code below, as
Hans suggested, and it was changing the \tolerance value which made the
difference. Increasing the \tolerance value to 1000 eliminated all
overfull hboxes but still left 79 underfull hboxes. I continued to
increase the \tolerance value up to 6600 and was left with two overfull
hboxes. One with a badness of 6641 (warAndPeace1.png) and one with a
badness of 1097 (warAndPeace2.png). Above the \tolerance of 6600 only
warAndPeace2.png was left with a badness of 1097. Both of these
underfull hboxes were at the beginning of a paragraph - "To his Honor"
in the first png and "Well, you see," in the second png. I not sure a
reader would spot the second png badness but the first is noticeable to
my eyes.
I'm very pleased how the book has turned out, all 1668 pages of it as an
approximately 13cm by 20cm book. The pdf is 4MB and each run in ConTeXt
takes about 10 seconds on my M1 mac mini.
I'm interested in seeing how \setupalignpass develops and learning more
of how to use it.
Best Wishes
Keith McKay
On 21/07/2023 17:33, Keith McKay wrote:
> Thanks Hans!
>
> I'll have a play and keep an eye on updates
>
> Best Wishes
>
> Keith
>
> On 21/07/2023 17:10, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
>> Hi Keith,
>>
>> Here an example that Mikael made for such a book:
>>
>> \showframe
>>
>> % let's very strict
>>
>> \startsetups [*default]
>>
>> \directsetup{*reset}
>>
>> \frozen\widowpenalty 10000
>> \frozen\clubpenalty 10000
>> \frozen\displaywidowpenalty 10000
>> \frozen\brokenpenalty 0 % \defaultbrokenpenalty
>>
>> \stopsetups
>>
>> % we enable the use of expansion (this feature might become preset
>> % because we now delay setting the vectors anyway so less overhead)
>>
>> \definefontfeature
>> [default]
>> [default]
>> [expansion=quality,
>> protrusion=quality,
>> itlc=yes]
>>
>> % vertical expansion
>>
>> \setuplayout
>> [vz=2]
>>
>> % for which we need:
>>
>> % \setupalign[hanging,depth,stretch,granular]
>>
>> \setupalign[depth,stretch,granular]
>>
>> % here are the passes:
>>
>> \startsetups align:pass:test4
>> \pretolerance 100
>> \tolerance 200
>> \parpasses 4
>> classes \indecentparpassclasses
>> threshold 0.025pt
>> adjustspacing 3
>> adjustspacingstep 1
>> adjustspacingshrink 5
>> adjustspacingstretch 10
>> next
>> classes \indecentparpassclasses
>> threshold 0.025pt
>> adjustspacing 3
>> adjustspacingstep 1
>> adjustspacingshrink 10
>> adjustspacingstretch 20
>> next
>> classes \indecentparpassclasses
>> threshold 0.025pt
>> adjustspacing 3
>> adjustspacingstep 1
>> adjustspacingshrink 25
>> adjustspacingstretch 50
>> next
>> classes \indecentparpassclasses
>> threshold 0.025pt
>> adjustspacing 3
>> adjustspacingstep 1
>> adjustspacingshrink 50
>> adjustspacingstretch 100
>> \relax
>> \stopsetups
>>
>> \setupalignpass[test4]
>>
>> \starttext
>> ...
>> \stoptext
>>
>> (work in progress so keep an eye on updates)
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an
>> entry to the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
>> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
>> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>>
[-- Attachment #2: warAndPeace1.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 15891 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #3: warAndPeace2.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 18002 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #4: Type: text/plain, Size: 495 bytes --]
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [NTG-context] Re: Par Builder Tests
2023-07-28 15:04 ` Keith McKay
@ 2023-07-28 16:22 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
2023-07-28 18:20 ` Keith McKay
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Henning Hraban Ramm @ 2023-07-28 16:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Am 28.07.23 um 17:04 schrieb Keith McKay:
> I played around with the setups for the align:pass:test4 code below, as
> Hans suggested, and it was changing the \tolerance value which made the
> difference. Increasing the \tolerance value to 1000 eliminated all
> overfull hboxes but still left 79 underfull hboxes. I continued to
> increase the \tolerance value up to 6600 and was left with two overfull
> hboxes. One with a badness of 6641 (warAndPeace1.png) and one with a
> badness of 1097 (warAndPeace2.png). Above the \tolerance of 6600 only
> warAndPeace2.png was left with a badness of 1097. Both of these
> underfull hboxes were at the beginning of a paragraph - "To his Honor"
> in the first png and "Well, you see," in the second png. I not sure a
> reader would spot the second png badness but the first is noticeable to
> my eyes.
Hi Keith,
since both cases are caused by names with accents, did you try to add
hyphenation exceptions for those? Such cases are probably not covered by
English hyphentation rules.
Hraban
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [NTG-context] Re: Par Builder Tests
2023-07-28 16:22 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
@ 2023-07-28 18:20 ` Keith McKay
2023-07-30 13:09 ` Keith McKay
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Keith McKay @ 2023-07-28 18:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1744 bytes --]
Thanks Hraban, didn't think of that so will give it a try.
Best Wishes
Keith
On Fri, 28 Jul 2023, 17:28 Henning Hraban Ramm, <texml@fiee.net> wrote:
> Am 28.07.23 um 17:04 schrieb Keith McKay:
> > I played around with the setups for the align:pass:test4 code below, as
> > Hans suggested, and it was changing the \tolerance value which made the
> > difference. Increasing the \tolerance value to 1000 eliminated all
> > overfull hboxes but still left 79 underfull hboxes. I continued to
> > increase the \tolerance value up to 6600 and was left with two overfull
> > hboxes. One with a badness of 6641 (warAndPeace1.png) and one with a
> > badness of 1097 (warAndPeace2.png). Above the \tolerance of 6600 only
> > warAndPeace2.png was left with a badness of 1097. Both of these
> > underfull hboxes were at the beginning of a paragraph - "To his Honor"
> > in the first png and "Well, you see," in the second png. I not sure a
> > reader would spot the second png badness but the first is noticeable to
> > my eyes.
>
> Hi Keith,
> since both cases are caused by names with accents, did you try to add
> hyphenation exceptions for those? Such cases are probably not covered by
> English hyphentation rules.
>
> Hraban
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
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>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [NTG-context] Re: Par Builder Tests
2023-07-28 18:20 ` Keith McKay
@ 2023-07-30 13:09 ` Keith McKay
2023-08-01 13:37 ` [NTG-context] Bibliography cite Robert via ntg-context
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Keith McKay @ 2023-07-30 13:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
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Hraban's suggestion works really well. I setup hyphenation rules for the
underfull boxes of Russian names and reduced the \tolerance to 600. I'm
now down to about 20 underfull boxes which to my eyes look fine.
Thanks again Hraban
Best Wishes
Keith
On 28/07/2023 19:20, Keith McKay wrote:
> Thanks Hraban, didn't think of that so will give it a try.
> Best Wishes
> Keith
>
>
> On Fri, 28 Jul 2023, 17:28 Henning Hraban Ramm, <texml@fiee.net> wrote:
>
> Am 28.07.23 um 17:04 schrieb Keith McKay:
> > I played around with the setups for the align:pass:test4 code
> below, as
> > Hans suggested, and it was changing the \tolerance value which
> made the
> > difference. Increasing the \tolerance value to 1000 eliminated all
> > overfull hboxes but still left 79 underfull hboxes. I continued to
> > increase the \tolerance value up to 6600 and was left with two
> overfull
> > hboxes. One with a badness of 6641 (warAndPeace1.png) and one
> with a
> > badness of 1097 (warAndPeace2.png). Above the \tolerance of 6600
> only
> > warAndPeace2.png was left with a badness of 1097. Both of these
> > underfull hboxes were at the beginning of a paragraph - "To his
> Honor"
> > in the first png and "Well, you see," in the second png. I not
> sure a
> > reader would spot the second png badness but the first is
> noticeable to
> > my eyes.
>
> Hi Keith,
> since both cases are caused by names with accents, did you try to add
> hyphenation exceptions for those? Such cases are probably not
> covered by
> English hyphentation rules.
>
> Hraban
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
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>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [NTG-context] Bibliography cite
2023-07-30 13:09 ` Keith McKay
@ 2023-08-01 13:37 ` Robert via ntg-context
2023-08-01 20:42 ` [NTG-context] " Alan Braslau via ntg-context
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Robert via ntg-context @ 2023-08-01 13:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: r.ermers
Dear List members,
For my academic work with context I need the following cite according to Apa standards:
Knuth (1984, p. 12) mentions ….
The matrix is this:
AUTHOR (YYYY, p.~n).
I reckon this can somehow be accomplished with the \setupbtx command.
(Standard these and other variants are possible: AUTHOR (YYYY) and AUTHOR YYYY, p. n.)
I tried different setups: \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryear], and \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryears], I played with the lefttext, righttext and other options, but none of them give the desired result.
Thank you for any suggestions.
Regards,
Robert
@article{Knuth1984,
author={Knuth, Donald E.},
title={Literate Programming},
journal={The Computer Journal}, Volume={27}, Number={2}, year={1984},
Pages={97--111},
}
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [NTG-context] Re: Bibliography cite
2023-08-01 13:37 ` [NTG-context] Bibliography cite Robert via ntg-context
@ 2023-08-01 20:42 ` Alan Braslau via ntg-context
2023-08-01 21:26 ` Robert via ntg-context
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Alan Braslau via ntg-context @ 2023-08-01 20:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Alan Braslau
Using the APA specification:
\usebtxdefinitions
[apa]
you can then
\cite[alternative=authoryears,righttext={{, p.\nbsp 12}}] [Knuth1984]
mentions ….
The tricky part concerning righttext= is the double {{ }}, needed
because the text contains a comma. The reason for this is simple, as
righttext is a comma-separated list, where each entry corresponds to a
cited reference, as in \cite[righttext={a,b}] [ref1,ref2]
so a is associated with ref1 and b is associated with ref2.
Alan
On 01/08/23 01/08/23, 15:37, Robert via ntg-context wrote:
> Dear List members,
>
> For my academic work with context I need the following cite according to Apa standards:
>
> Knuth (1984, p. 12) mentions ….
>
> The matrix is this:
>
> AUTHOR (YYYY, p.~n).
>
> I reckon this can somehow be accomplished with the \setupbtx command.
>
> (Standard these and other variants are possible: AUTHOR (YYYY) and AUTHOR YYYY, p. n.)
>
> I tried different setups: \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryear], and \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryears], I played with the lefttext, righttext and other options, but none of them give the desired result.
>
> Thank you for any suggestions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robert
>
>
>
> @article{Knuth1984,
> author={Knuth, Donald E.},
> title={Literate Programming},
> journal={The Computer Journal}, Volume={27}, Number={2}, year={1984},
> Pages={97--111},
> }
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [NTG-context] Re: Bibliography cite
2023-08-01 20:42 ` [NTG-context] " Alan Braslau via ntg-context
@ 2023-08-01 21:26 ` Robert via ntg-context
2023-08-04 11:57 ` Alan Braslau via ntg-context
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Robert via ntg-context @ 2023-08-01 21:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: r.ermers
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Thank you, Alan for the suggestion.
I tried as you said: \cite[alternative=authoryears,righttext={{, p. 3}}][Knuth1984].
Yet the result is this: Knuth (1984), , p. 3
If I leave out the first comma, the result is: Knuth (1984), p. 3
Righttext probably refers to the text outside the parentheses.
Thank you in advance,
Robert.
> Op 1 aug. 2023, om 22:42 heeft Alan Braslau <alan.braslau@icloud.com> het volgende geschreven:
>
> Using the APA specification:
>
> \usebtxdefinitions
> [apa]
>
>
> you can then
>
> \cite[alternative=authoryears,righttext={{, p.\nbsp 12}}] [Knuth1984]
> mentions ….
>
>
> The tricky part concerning righttext= is the double {{ }}, needed because the text contains a comma. The reason for this is simple, as righttext is a comma-separated list, where each entry corresponds to a cited reference, as in \cite[righttext={a,b}] [ref1,ref2]
> so a is associated with ref1 and b is associated with ref2.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
> On 01/08/23 01/08/23, 15:37, Robert via ntg-context wrote:
>> Dear List members,
>> For my academic work with context I need the following cite according to Apa standards:
>> Knuth (1984, p. 12) mentions ….
>> The matrix is this:
>> AUTHOR (YYYY, p.~n).
>> I reckon this can somehow be accomplished with the \setupbtx command.
>> (Standard these and other variants are possible: AUTHOR (YYYY) and AUTHOR YYYY, p. n.)
>> I tried different setups: \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryear], and \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryears], I played with the lefttext, righttext and other options, but none of them give the desired result.
>> Thank you for any suggestions.
>> Regards,
>> Robert
>> @article{Knuth1984,
>> author={Knuth, Donald E.},
>> title={Literate Programming},
>> journal={The Computer Journal}, Volume={27}, Number={2}, year={1984},
>> Pages={97--111},
>> }
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [NTG-context] Re: Bibliography cite
2023-08-01 21:26 ` Robert via ntg-context
@ 2023-08-04 11:57 ` Alan Braslau via ntg-context
2023-08-05 14:43 ` Robert via ntg-context
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Alan Braslau via ntg-context @ 2023-08-04 11:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Alan Braslau
Indeed, one does not need the comma, it is programmed in the style.
You can see this in the manual, on p. 43 documenting citations.
The style is setup to put the righttext inside the parenthesis for
alternative=authoryear and outside of the year parenthesis for
alternative=authoryears.
I looked carefully in the APA Style Guide and did not find any
suggestion that one should use Knuth (1984, p. 3). The variant (Knuth,
1984, p. 3) is documented.
You can make the following changes (untested)
\setupbtx [apa:cite:author:years] [right=]
\setupbtx [apa:cite:authoryears] [right={)}]
to get the other behavior.
--
Alan
On 01/08/23 01/08/23, 23:26, Robert via ntg-context wrote:
> Thank you, Alan for the suggestion.
>
> I tried as you said: \cite[alternative=authoryears,righttext={{, p.
> 3}}][Knuth1984].
>
> Yet the result is this: Knuth (1984), , p. 3
>
> If I leave out the first comma, the result is: Knuth (1984), p. 3
>
> Righttext probably refers to the text outside the parentheses.
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Robert.
>
>
>> Op 1 aug. 2023, om 22:42 heeft Alan Braslau <alan.braslau@icloud.com>
>> het volgende geschreven:
>>
>> Using the APA specification:
>>
>> \usebtxdefinitions
>> [apa]
>>
>>
>> you can then
>>
>> \cite[alternative=authoryears,righttext={{, p.\nbsp 12}}] [Knuth1984]
>> mentions ….
>>
>>
>> The tricky part concerning righttext= is the double {{ }}, needed
>> because the text contains a comma. The reason for this is simple, as
>> righttext is a comma-separated list, where each entry corresponds to a
>> cited reference, as in \cite[righttext={a,b}] [ref1,ref2]
>> so a is associated with ref1 and b is associated with ref2.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 01/08/23 01/08/23, 15:37, Robert via ntg-context wrote:
>>> Dear List members,
>>> For my academic work with context I need the following cite according
>>> to Apa standards:
>>> Knuth (1984, p. 12) mentions ….
>>> The matrix is this:
>>> AUTHOR (YYYY, p.~n).
>>> I reckon this can somehow be accomplished with the \setupbtx command.
>>> (Standard these and other variants are possible: AUTHOR (YYYY) and
>>> AUTHOR YYYY, p. n.)
>>> I tried different setups: \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryear], and
>>> \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryears], I played with the lefttext,
>>> righttext and other options, but none of them give the desired result.
>>> Thank you for any suggestions.
>>> Regards,
>>> Robert
>>> @article{Knuth1984,
>>> author={Knuth, Donald E.},
>>> title={Literate Programming},
>>> journal={The Computer Journal}, Volume={27}, Number={2}, year={1984},
>>> Pages={97--111},
>>> }
>
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [NTG-context] Re: Bibliography cite
2023-08-04 11:57 ` Alan Braslau via ntg-context
@ 2023-08-05 14:43 ` Robert via ntg-context
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Robert via ntg-context @ 2023-08-05 14:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: r.ermers
Dear Alan,
Thanks for your response. What I need in fact is this
Knuth (1984:12).
I am sorry for the confusion.
I will try your suggestions!
Robert
> Op 4 aug. 2023, om 13:57 heeft Alan Braslau <alan.braslau@icloud.com> het volgende geschreven:
>
> Indeed, one does not need the comma, it is programmed in the style.
> You can see this in the manual, on p. 43 documenting citations.
>
> The style is setup to put the righttext inside the parenthesis for alternative=authoryear and outside of the year parenthesis for alternative=authoryears.
>
> I looked carefully in the APA Style Guide and did not find any suggestion that one should use Knuth (1984, p. 3). The variant (Knuth, 1984, p. 3) is documented.
>
> You can make the following changes (untested)
> \setupbtx [apa:cite:author:years] [right=]
> \setupbtx [apa:cite:authoryears] [right={)}]
> to get the other behavior.
>
> --
> Alan
>
>
> On 01/08/23 01/08/23, 23:26, Robert via ntg-context wrote:
>> Thank you, Alan for the suggestion.
>> I tried as you said: \cite[alternative=authoryears,righttext={{, p. 3}}][Knuth1984].
>> Yet the result is this: Knuth (1984), , p. 3
>> If I leave out the first comma, the result is: Knuth (1984), p. 3
>> Righttext probably refers to the text outside the parentheses.
>> Thank you in advance,
>> Robert.
>>> Op 1 aug. 2023, om 22:42 heeft Alan Braslau <alan.braslau@icloud.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>
>>> Using the APA specification:
>>>
>>> \usebtxdefinitions
>>> [apa]
>>>
>>>
>>> you can then
>>>
>>> \cite[alternative=authoryears,righttext={{, p.\nbsp 12}}] [Knuth1984]
>>> mentions ….
>>>
>>>
>>> The tricky part concerning righttext= is the double {{ }}, needed because the text contains a comma. The reason for this is simple, as righttext is a comma-separated list, where each entry corresponds to a cited reference, as in \cite[righttext={a,b}] [ref1,ref2]
>>> so a is associated with ref1 and b is associated with ref2.
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/08/23 01/08/23, 15:37, Robert via ntg-context wrote:
>>>> Dear List members,
>>>> For my academic work with context I need the following cite according to Apa standards:
>>>> Knuth (1984, p. 12) mentions ….
>>>> The matrix is this:
>>>> AUTHOR (YYYY, p.~n).
>>>> I reckon this can somehow be accomplished with the \setupbtx command.
>>>> (Standard these and other variants are possible: AUTHOR (YYYY) and AUTHOR YYYY, p. n.)
>>>> I tried different setups: \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryear], and \setupbtx[apa:cite:authoryears], I played with the lefttext, righttext and other options, but none of them give the desired result.
>>>> Thank you for any suggestions.
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Robert
>>>> @article{Knuth1984,
>>>> author={Knuth, Donald E.},
>>>> title={Literate Programming},
>>>> journal={The Computer Journal}, Volume={27}, Number={2}, year={1984},
>>>> Pages={97--111},
>>>> }
>>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2023-08-05 14:45 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2023-07-21 15:34 [NTG-context] Par Builder Tests Keith McKay
2023-07-21 15:53 ` [NTG-context] " Hans Hagen
2023-07-21 16:10 ` Hans Hagen via ntg-context
2023-07-21 16:33 ` Keith McKay
2023-07-28 15:04 ` Keith McKay
2023-07-28 16:22 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
2023-07-28 18:20 ` Keith McKay
2023-07-30 13:09 ` Keith McKay
2023-08-01 13:37 ` [NTG-context] Bibliography cite Robert via ntg-context
2023-08-01 20:42 ` [NTG-context] " Alan Braslau via ntg-context
2023-08-01 21:26 ` Robert via ntg-context
2023-08-04 11:57 ` Alan Braslau via ntg-context
2023-08-05 14:43 ` Robert via ntg-context
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