lmtx update

lmtx update

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

Hi,

We were considering to drop the virtual math fonts mechanism (which has 
served its purpose in the transition in the very early days of luatex 
but became obsolete as math fonts evolved) but in the end we were forced 
keep this feature and even upgrade it because we liked iwona, kurier and 
anwykwa math too much. A typical case where one needs a week for 
reviewing, supporting, discussing, testing a few fonts, so let's hope it 
wi;l be used. Iwona and Kurier are nice sansish fonts and antykwa has a 
rather distinctive look and feel.

The current variant works okay for most of math (in most weights of the 
fonts)  but then, these fonts are not used for complex math or math 
using obscure symbols anyway.

It can also serve as a test case for somewhat ancient fonts but it is 
configured in the modern way we like more (as we might completely drop 
old code paths some day anyway).

And so, this update is dedicated to Janusz Nowacki, a Polish font 
friend, who passed away some time ago.

% \setupbodyfont[iwona]
% \setupbodyfont[kurier]
% \setupbodyfont[antykwa]

Hans & Mikael


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: lmtx update

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

On 8/23/2021 12:55 AM, Benjamin Buchmuller via ntg-context wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Here is another thing which worked previously for me:
> 
> ConTeXt  ver: 2021.07.30 00:57 LMTX  fmt: 2021.8.8  int: english/english
> 
> Now:
> 
> ConTeXt  ver: 2021.08.22 11:54 LMTX  fmt: 2021.8.22  int: english/english
> 
> Error:
> 
> lua error:
> 
> 	registered function call [396]: ...eXt/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/anch-pos.lmt:1286: attempt to call a nil value (upvalue 'texgetparstate')
> stack traceback:
> 	...eXt/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/anch-pos.lmt:1286: in function <...eXt/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/anch-pos.lmt:1262>
> 	(...tail calls...)	
> 
> 129     	\NC \unit{0.88 angstrom}
> 130     	\NC \unit{2.02 angstrom}
> 131     	\NC \unit{2.03 angstrom}
> 132     	\NC \unit{1.90 angstrom}
> 133     	\NC \unit{4.99 angstrom} % rmsd #1/a:14-61 & backbone to #5/a:103-150 & backbone
> 134     	\NC \unit{1.88 angstrom}
> 135     	\NC \unit{5.20 angstrom} % rmsd #1/a:46-55 & backbone to #5/a:135-144 & backbone
> 136     	\NC \NR
> 137     	\HL
> 138     \stoptabulate
> 
> The difficulty here is that when I copy the "faulty" part (my table) to another document (including all relevant defs etc.) it just works fine. So, I think it must have to do something with the placement of the float on the page.
> 
> Any hints what has changed?
your luametatex binary seems older than in the lmtx distribution .. what 
platform?

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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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lmtx update

[Benjamin Buchmuller via ntg-context]

Hi,

Here is another thing which worked previously for me:

ConTeXt  ver: 2021.07.30 00:57 LMTX  fmt: 2021.8.8  int: english/english

Now:

ConTeXt  ver: 2021.08.22 11:54 LMTX  fmt: 2021.8.22  int: english/english

Error:

lua error:

	registered function call [396]: ...eXt/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/anch-pos.lmt:1286: attempt to call a nil value (upvalue 'texgetparstate')
stack traceback:
	...eXt/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/anch-pos.lmt:1286: in function <...eXt/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/anch-pos.lmt:1262>
	(...tail calls...)	

129     	\NC \unit{0.88 angstrom}
130     	\NC \unit{2.02 angstrom}
131     	\NC \unit{2.03 angstrom}
132     	\NC \unit{1.90 angstrom}
133     	\NC \unit{4.99 angstrom} % rmsd #1/a:14-61 & backbone to #5/a:103-150 & backbone
134     	\NC \unit{1.88 angstrom}
135     	\NC \unit{5.20 angstrom} % rmsd #1/a:46-55 & backbone to #5/a:135-144 & backbone
136     	\NC \NR
137     	\HL
138     \stoptabulate

The difficulty here is that when I copy the "faulty" part (my table) to another document (including all relevant defs etc.) it just works fine. So, I think it must have to do something with the placement of the float on the page. 

Any hints what has changed?

Thanks!


Benjamin

> On Aug 20, 2021, at 12:00, ntg-context-request@ntg.nl wrote:
> 
> lmtx update

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Re: lmtx update

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

On 8/19/2021 10:07 PM, Aditya Mahajan via ntg-context wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Aug 2021, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> Here are the highlights of todays update:
>>
>> - somewhat more compact tuc files, not for all documents, but it can
>> accumulate; also less memory used then; i could bring down an extreme
>> 2000 page 5 column doc tuc file down to 5% -- it was 70 MB; for the
>> luametatex manual it reducec the tuc more than 30%; hard to tell if
>> there will be an associated performance hit, but i'm sure thomas will
>> complain if that's the case
> 
> I never realized that tuc files can grow so big. For big documents, would it make sense to simply read and write zipped tuc files?
normally they are not that large but when you enable for instance 
mechanisms that need positioning they can grow large .. zipping makes 
for less bytes but still large files and the overhead for serialization 
stays

(to some extend trying to make these things small is like compression 
but in a different way .. could be a nice topic for a ctx meeting)

Hans

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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: lmtx update

[Aditya Mahajan via ntg-context]

On Thu, 19 Aug 2021, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Here are the highlights of todays update:
> 
> - somewhat more compact tuc files, not for all documents, but it can 
> accumulate; also less memory used then; i could bring down an extreme 
> 2000 page 5 column doc tuc file down to 5% -- it was 70 MB; for the 
> luametatex manual it reducec the tuc more than 30%; hard to tell if 
> there will be an associated performance hit, but i'm sure thomas will 
> complain if that's the case

I never realized that tuc files can grow so big. For big documents, would it make sense to simply read and write zipped tuc files?

Aditya
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lmtx update

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

Hi,

Here are the highlights of todays update:

- somewhat more compact tuc files, not for all documents, but it can 
accumulate; also less memory used then; i could bring down an extreme 
2000 page 5 column doc tuc file down to 5% -- it was 70 MB; for the 
luametatex manual it reducec the tuc more than 30%; hard to tell if 
there will be an associated performance hit, but i'm sure thomas will 
complain if that's the case

- more mp-tex-lua interfacing upgraded plus extra preliminary chapter 
for luametafun about extensions - for taco

- a slightly more compact cache files for fonts with many (pseudo) 
ligatures; hopefully no side effects (nothing that can't be fixed fast 
if noted); quite probably no performance hit and maybe even some room 
for optimization (not done yet)

- a split in the cache directory for luametatex so that we can more 
easilly experiment without interference (so, although the above works in 
mkiv it's not enabled there currently)

- some minor things (also in the process of splitting the codebase)

- no real changes in / additions to the luametatex binary (we're in 
cosmetics mode now)

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: lmtx update

[Eduardo Bohoyo]

El 17/9/20 a las 12:50, Eduardo Bohoyo escribió:
>
> El 17/9/20 a las 12:35, Wolfgang Schuster escribió:
>> Eduardo Bohoyo schrieb am 17.09.2020 um 10:14:
>>> Thank you for this illustrative example, Wolfgang.
>>>
>>> So, what \forgetparagraphfreezing does is to reverse the order that 
>>> lmtx currently imposes by default, right? In other words, 
>>> \forgetparagraphfreezing, recovers the default behaviour of MkIV.
>>>
>>> So, I suspect that this will not change; if we want to apply 
>>> Lettrine to a paragraph, from now on we must wrap it up with 
>>> \forgetparagraphfreezing and \setparagraphfreezing.
>>>
>>> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>
>> LMTX removes some restrictions for settings which are applies to 
>> paragraphs, e.g. the following example works now without problems 
>> with LMTX while LuaTeX needs the \dontleavehmode at the begin of the 
>> paragraph
>>
>> \starttext
>>
>> \placefigure[left]{none}{\framed[width=2cm,height=2cm]{}}
>> %\dontleavehmode
>> {\bf Tufte: }\input tufte
>>
>> \stoptext
>>
>> To avoid side effects from these changes LMTX freezes a few settings 
>> at the begin of the paragraph. In some cases commands or settings 
>> have to be adapted to these changes and the lettrine module is one of 
>> them.
>>
>> The changes itself to the commands have to be made in the modules 
>> etc. itself and not in the documents, below is a minimal example how 
>> the lettrine module has to be changed to get indentation for the 
>> initial back.
>>
>> \starttext
>>
>> \hsize 10cm
>>
>> \noindent
>> \parshape 3 1cm 9cm 1.5cm 8.5cm 0cm 10cm
>> \input weisman
>>
>> \blank
>>
>> \begingroup
>> \noindent
>> \parshape 3 1cm 9cm 1.5cm 8.5cm 0cm 10cm
>> \updateparagraphshapes
>> \endgroup
>> \input weisman
>>
>> \stoptext
>>
>> BTW: ConTeXt already provides a command to place initials as part of 
>> the core but it lacks a few features of the lettrine module.
>>
>> Wolfgang
>>
>
> OK, I get it.
>
> Oh, and yes, I knew about the \setupinitial command. Thanks for 
> pointing that out.


Sorry, Wolfgag,

I forgot to sign my reply.

Eduardo

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Re: lmtx update

[Eduardo Bohoyo]

El 17/9/20 a las 12:35, Wolfgang Schuster escribió:
> Eduardo Bohoyo schrieb am 17.09.2020 um 10:14:
>> Thank you for this illustrative example, Wolfgang.
>>
>> So, what \forgetparagraphfreezing does is to reverse the order that 
>> lmtx currently imposes by default, right? In other words, 
>> \forgetparagraphfreezing, recovers the default behaviour of MkIV.
>>
>> So, I suspect that this will not change; if we want to apply Lettrine 
>> to a paragraph, from now on we must wrap it up with 
>> \forgetparagraphfreezing and \setparagraphfreezing.
>>
>> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> LMTX removes some restrictions for settings which are applies to 
> paragraphs, e.g. the following example works now without problems with 
> LMTX while LuaTeX needs the \dontleavehmode at the begin of the paragraph
>
> \starttext
>
> \placefigure[left]{none}{\framed[width=2cm,height=2cm]{}}
> %\dontleavehmode
> {\bf Tufte: }\input tufte
>
> \stoptext
>
> To avoid side effects from these changes LMTX freezes a few settings 
> at the begin of the paragraph. In some cases commands or settings have 
> to be adapted to these changes and the lettrine module is one of them.
>
> The changes itself to the commands have to be made in the modules etc. 
> itself and not in the documents, below is a minimal example how the 
> lettrine module has to be changed to get indentation for the initial 
> back.
>
> \starttext
>
> \hsize 10cm
>
> \noindent
> \parshape 3 1cm 9cm 1.5cm 8.5cm 0cm 10cm
> \input weisman
>
> \blank
>
> \begingroup
> \noindent
> \parshape 3 1cm 9cm 1.5cm 8.5cm 0cm 10cm
> \updateparagraphshapes
> \endgroup
> \input weisman
>
> \stoptext
>
> BTW: ConTeXt already provides a command to place initials as part of 
> the core but it lacks a few features of the lettrine module.
>
> Wolfgang
>

OK, I get it.

Oh, and yes, I knew about the \setupinitial command. Thanks for pointing 
that out.

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Re: lmtx update

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Eduardo Bohoyo schrieb am 17.09.2020 um 10:14:
> Thank you for this illustrative example, Wolfgang.
>
> So, what \forgetparagraphfreezing does is to reverse the order that 
> lmtx currently imposes by default, right? In other words, 
> \forgetparagraphfreezing, recovers the default behaviour of MkIV.
>
> So, I suspect that this will not change; if we want to apply Lettrine 
> to a paragraph, from now on we must wrap it up with 
> \forgetparagraphfreezing and \setparagraphfreezing.
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.

LMTX removes some restrictions for settings which are applies to 
paragraphs, e.g. the following example works now without problems with 
LMTX while LuaTeX needs the \dontleavehmode at the begin of the paragraph

\starttext

\placefigure[left]{none}{\framed[width=2cm,height=2cm]{}}
%\dontleavehmode
{\bf Tufte: }\input tufte

\stoptext

To avoid side effects from these changes LMTX freezes a few settings at 
the begin of the paragraph. In some cases commands or settings have to 
be adapted to these changes and the lettrine module is one of them.

The changes itself to the commands have to be made in the modules etc. 
itself and not in the documents, below is a minimal example how the 
lettrine module has to be changed to get indentation for the initial back.

\starttext

\hsize 10cm

\noindent
\parshape 3 1cm 9cm 1.5cm 8.5cm 0cm 10cm
\input weisman

\blank

\begingroup
\noindent
\parshape 3 1cm 9cm 1.5cm 8.5cm 0cm 10cm
\updateparagraphshapes
\endgroup
\input weisman

\stoptext

BTW: ConTeXt already provides a command to place initials as part of the 
core but it lacks a few features of the lettrine module.

Wolfgang

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Re: lmtx update

[Eduardo Bohoyo]

El 17/9/20 a las 1:07, ebohoyod escribió:
>
> El 16/9/20 a las 18:23, Wolfgang Schuster escribió:
>> ebohoyod schrieb am 16.09.2020 um 17:52:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> It seems that the Lettrine module is one of those affected:
>>>
>>> https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/562534/does-context-fail-in-the-lmtx-environment-with-the-lettrine-module?noredirect=1#comment1418902_562534 
>>>
>>>
>>> But, honestly, first, I don't know what means "/Of course it might 
>>> have other side effects once in lmtx we everywhere expect freezing 
>>> to be enabled./"
>>> I suppose that, in order not to be a nuisance (and not to digress 
>>> into this real subject of interest), a short answer would be enough 
>>> to put me on track to investigate it.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, I suppose the best practice, from what I have 
>>> just read, would be not to use \forgetparagraphfreezing globaly, but 
>>> \forgetparagraphfreezing  and \setparagraphfreezing at the beginning 
>>> and end of the first paragraph respectively of each chapter.  Would 
>>> this be the least harmful way? That is, wrapping it up to avoid this 
>>> provisional failure of the Lettrine with LMTX module, but at the 
>>> same time to avoid affecting that default freezing proposal in the 
>>> rest of the document, right?
>>>
>>> By the way, and just out of curiosity, how does the recommended 
>>> provisional command work? Would it be something like this in the 
>>> preamble?:
>>>
>>> \definingparagraphs
>>>      firstparagraph][n=1]
>>>      \setupparagraphs [firstparagraph][1][align={hanging}]
>>>
>>> And then this arrangement in the \input files?:
>>>
>>> \startfirstparagraph
>>> \lettrine{B}{lah} blah, blah, blah...
>>> \stopfirstparagraph
>>> \blank [overlay] \strut
>>>
>>> I know it's a dirty, inelegant solution, but I can't think of a 
>>> better one at the moment.
>>
>> Below is a minimal example which doesn't rely on the module,
>> the problem is caused by the order of the \noindent and \parshape
>> command.
>>
>> When a paragraph starts before the \parshape values are set
>> the arguments are ignored because the values are already frozen
>> at this moment, when you set the values before the paragraphs
>> starts ConTeXt applies them.
>>
>> \starttext
>>
>> \hsize 10cm
>>
>> % lettrine module, \noindent before \parshape
>>
>> \noindent
>> \parshape 3 1cm 9cm 1.5cm 8.5cm 0cm 10cm
>> \input weisman
>>
>> \blank
>>
>> % working order, \parshape before \noindent
>>
>> \parshape 3 1cm 9cm 1.5cm 8.5cm 0cm 10cm
>> \noindent
>> \input weisman
>>
>> \stoptext
>>
>> Wolfgang
>
Thank you for this illustrative example, Wolfgang.

So, what \forgetparagraphfreezing does is to reverse the order that lmtx 
currently imposes by default, right? In other words, 
\forgetparagraphfreezing, recovers the default behaviour of MkIV.

So, I suspect that this will not change; if we want to apply Lettrine to 
a paragraph, from now on we must wrap it up with 
\forgetparagraphfreezing and \setparagraphfreezing.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Eduardo.
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Re: lmtx update

[Wolfgang Schuster]

ebohoyod schrieb am 16.09.2020 um 17:52:
> Hi,
> 
> It seems that the Lettrine module is one of those affected:
> 
> https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/562534/does-context-fail-in-the-lmtx-environment-with-the-lettrine-module?noredirect=1#comment1418902_562534 
> 
> 
> But, honestly, first, I don't know what means "/Of course it might have 
> other side effects once in lmtx we everywhere expect freezing to be 
> enabled./"
> I suppose that, in order not to be a nuisance (and not to digress into 
> this real subject of interest), a short answer would be enough to put me 
> on track to investigate it.
> 
> On the other hand, I suppose the best practice, from what I have just 
> read, would be not to use \forgetparagraphfreezing globaly, but 
> \forgetparagraphfreezing  and \setparagraphfreezing at the beginning and 
> end of the first paragraph respectively of each chapter.  Would this be 
> the least harmful way? That is, wrapping it up to avoid this provisional 
> failure of the Lettrine with LMTX module, but at the same time to avoid 
> affecting that default freezing proposal in the rest of the document, 
> right?
> 
> By the way, and just out of curiosity, how does the recommended 
> provisional command work? Would it be something like this in the preamble?:
> 
> \definingparagraphs
>      firstparagraph][n=1]
>      \setupparagraphs [firstparagraph][1][align={hanging}]
> 
> And then this arrangement in the \input files?:
> 
> \startfirstparagraph
> \lettrine{B}{lah} blah, blah, blah...
> \stopfirstparagraph
> \blank [overlay] \strut
> 
> I know it's a dirty, inelegant solution, but I can't think of a better 
> one at the moment.

Below is a minimal example which doesn't rely on the module,
the problem is caused by the order of the \noindent and \parshape
command.

When a paragraph starts before the \parshape values are set
the arguments are ignored because the values are already frozen
at this moment, when you set the values before the paragraphs
starts ConTeXt applies them.

\starttext

\hsize 10cm

% lettrine module, \noindent before \parshape

\noindent
\parshape 3 1cm 9cm 1.5cm 8.5cm 0cm 10cm
\input weisman

\blank

% working order, \parshape before \noindent

\parshape 3 1cm 9cm 1.5cm 8.5cm 0cm 10cm
\noindent
\input weisman

\stoptext

Wolfgang
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lmtx update

[ebohoyod]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1556 bytes --]

Hi,

It seems that the Lettrine module is one of those affected:

https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/562534/does-context-fail-in-the-lmtx-environment-with-the-lettrine-module?noredirect=1#comment1418902_562534 


But, honestly, first, I don't know what means "/Of course it might have 
other side effects once in lmtx we everywhere expect freezing to be 
enabled./"
I suppose that, in order not to be a nuisance (and not to digress into 
this real subject of interest), a short answer would be enough to put me 
on track to investigate it.

On the other hand, I suppose the best practice, from what I have just 
read, would be not to use \forgetparagraphfreezing globaly, but 
\forgetparagraphfreezing  and \setparagraphfreezing at the beginning and 
end of the first paragraph respectively of each chapter.  Would this be 
the least harmful way? That is, wrapping it up to avoid this provisional 
failure of the Lettrine with LMTX module, but at the same time to avoid 
affecting that default freezing proposal in the rest of the document, 
right?

By the way, and just out of curiosity, how does the recommended 
provisional command work? Would it be something like this in the preamble?:

\definingparagraphs
     firstparagraph][n=1]
     \setupparagraphs [firstparagraph][1][align={hanging}]

And then this arrangement in the \input files?:

\startfirstparagraph
\lettrine{B}{lah} blah, blah, blah...
\stopfirstparagraph
\blank [overlay] \strut

I know it's a dirty, inelegant solution, but I can't think of a better 
one at the moment.


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Re: lmtx update

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 7/31/20 10:32 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Sorry for the long mail ...
>
> One of the changes in lmtx is that we freeze the properties that
> determine the paragraph shape as well as breaking into lines in such a
> way that we have predictable behaviour. As a side effect it can be that
> existing code (lmtx only) will behave differently (will be fixed when we
> notice) but also that some low level user tweaking can not work, i.e.
> they are just ignored, but only when they happen mid paragraph which
> actually is always debatable anyway.

Hi Hans,

many thanks for your explanation.

I wonder whether the new improvements could prevent body text running
into the footnotes (as some of us have already reported).

> [...]
> No one ever requested it so see it an a quick and dirty example but
> don't hesitate to ask for more anyway (we like an occasional challenge).

If you are open for suggestions, I would ask for a footnotes that behave
as a page index, such as in:

  \setuplanguage[en][patterns={en,agr}]
  \setuppapersize[A6]
  \setupbodyfont[dejavu]
  \definenote[dict]
  \setupnote[dict][n=2,rule=off,
      split=strict, inbetween=\hskip1.5em]
  \setupnotation[dict][number=no,
      style={\tfx\setupinterlinespace[line=2.5ex]}]
  \starttext
  Πρῶτον δεῖ θέσθαι τί ὄνομα\dict{ὄνομα,
  -ατος, τό: noun} καὶ τί ῥῆμα\dict{ῥῆμα, -ατος, τό: verb},
  ἔπειτα τί ἐστιν
  ἀπόφασις\dict{ἀπόφασις, -εως, ἡ: negation}
  καὶ κατάφασις\dict{κατάφασις, εως, ἡ:
  affirmation} καὶ ἀπόφανσις\dict{ἀπόφανσις,
  -εως, ἡ: statement} καὶ λόγος.
  \stoptext

What I need there is that these notes are alphabetically sorted, such as
in a standard register.

As I proposed that (years ago), you told me it was too complex. I wonder
whether this would be easier with the current developments.

Many thanks for your improvements to ConTeXt,

Pablo
--
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: lmtx update

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Fri, 31 Jul 2020, Hans Hagen wrote:

Thanks for the update.

> Other work in progress is: better columns in itemize, esp proper 
> footnote support (not that I ever need that but I know users do so ...), 
> experiments work ok, but I need to check spacing. In general, footnotes 
> (will) behave a bit better, especially those used nested in other 
> mechanisms. A side effect of more control is that we can do other tricks 
> too and we're playing with it (kind of fun).

Does this mean we can get two-column footnotes in two-column documents?

Aditya
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Re: lmtx update

[Otared Kavian]

Hi Hraban,

Thank you for reminding me of the solution cooked up by Wolfgang for you a few years ago. That solution works fine when the notes are short enough, but in some cases the notes in the margin bump into each other (indeed it is not a good habit to have long notes, but in some cases one cannot avoid them).

Best regards: Otared 

> On 1 Aug 2020, at 18:41, Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>> Am 01.08.2020 um 15:20 schrieb Otared Kavian <otared@gmail.com>:
>> 
>> Regarding footnotes, would it be possible to have a built-in support for writing the footnotes in the margin? (For instance, assuming that the layout is such that for instance the right margin takes 1/3 of the page width, then the footnotes would occupy the right margin, beginning at the top).
> 
> I wanted to have footnotes in the margin, possibly starting in the same line as the marker.
> 
> Wolfgang came up with this:
> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Footnotes#..._but_not_at_the_bottom
> 
> (Not related to LMTX.)
> 
> Hraban
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
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Re: lmtx update

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 01.08.2020 um 15:20 schrieb Otared Kavian <otared@gmail.com>:
> 
> Regarding footnotes, would it be possible to have a built-in support for writing the footnotes in the margin? (For instance, assuming that the layout is such that for instance the right margin takes 1/3 of the page width, then the footnotes would occupy the right margin, beginning at the top).

I wanted to have footnotes in the margin, possibly starting in the same line as the marker.

Wolfgang came up with this:
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Footnotes#..._but_not_at_the_bottom

(Not related to LMTX.)

Hraban
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Re: lmtx update

[Otared Kavian]

> On 1 Aug 2020, at 16:17, Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> 
> On 8/1/2020 3:20 PM, Otared Kavian wrote:
>>> On 31 Jul 2020, at 10:32, Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>> 
>>> […]
>>> 
>>> Other work in progress is: better columns in itemize, esp proper footnote support (not that I ever need that but I know users do so ...), experiments work ok, but I need to check spacing. In general, footnotes (will) behave a bit better, especially those used nested in other mechanisms. A side effect of more control is that we can do other tricks too and we're playing with it (kind of fun).
>> Hi Hans,
>> Thanks for your explanations.
>> Regarding footnotes, would it be possible to have a built-in support for writing the footnotes in the margin? (For instance, assuming that the layout is such that for instance the right margin takes 1/3 of the page width, then the footnotes would occupy the right margin, beginning at the top).
> It depends on what you want. This works ok:
> […]

Hi Hans,

That's great! Thanks a lot!
I have two questions in order to adapt what you sent to my case.
I played a bit with your second solution, as in:

%%%%%%% begin sidenote-Hans.tex
\showframe
\setupinteraction[state=start]
\setuplayout
	[cutspace=7cm,
	width=middle,
	margin=5cm,
	margindistance=7mm]

\setuptexttexts
	[margin]
	[] [{\directsetup{notabene}}]

\newbox\MyNoteOverflow
\setupnotation[endnote]
	[interaction=yes,
	after={\blank[big]}]
	
\startsetups notabene
	\setbox\scratchbox\vbox
	\bgroup
		\setupalign[tolerant]
		\ifvoid\MyNoteOverflow 
		\else
			\unvbox\MyNoteOverflow
		\fi
		\placenotes[endnote][before=,after=]
	\egroup
	\scratchdimen\dimexpr\textheight-.5\lineheight\relax
	\ifdim\ht\scratchbox>\scratchdimen
		\global\setbox\MyNoteOverflow\box\scratchbox
		\setbox\scratchbox\vsplit \MyNoteOverflow to \scratchdimen
	\fi
	\vbox
	\bgroup
		\topskipcorrection
		\unvbox\scratchbox
		\vfilll
	\egroup
\stopsetups

\startsetups notaflush
	\doloop {
	\page
	\ifvoid\MyNoteOverflow
		\exitloop
	\else
		\null \page
	\fi
	}
\stopsetups

\starttext

\dorecurse{10}{
	test \endnote{\input ward }\input tufte.tex \par
	test \endnote{This is a note about Ward, who says: \par \input ward.tex} \input ward.tex \par
	test \endnote{This is a note about Donald Knuth.} \input knuth.tex \par
	}
This is a last note. \endnote{This last note is here to see what happens in the next page\dots\par \input knuth.tex}
\par \input knuth.tex
%\setups{notaflush}
\stoptext
%%%%%%% end sidenote-Hans.tex

The first question is why did you define a setups called notaflush, and why your example works fine without using it ?

The second question is: the side notes are vertically centered in the margin (one can see this when the notes do not cover all the margin), which is fine for me. But, out of curiosity, what can be changed in the setups notabene in order to have the notes to begin at the top of the margin ?
(When a note runs into the next page, as in the last note, then it would be nicer to begin on top of the margin).

Thanks again: Otared K.
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Re: lmtx update

[Hans Hagen]

On 8/1/2020 3:20 PM, Otared Kavian wrote:
>> On 31 Jul 2020, at 10:32, Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>
>> […]
>>
>> Other work in progress is: better columns in itemize, esp proper footnote support (not that I ever need that but I know users do so ...), experiments work ok, but I need to check spacing. In general, footnotes (will) behave a bit better, especially those used nested in other mechanisms. A side effect of more control is that we can do other tricks too and we're playing with it (kind of fun).
> 
> Hi Hans,
> 
> Thanks for your explanations.
> 
> Regarding footnotes, would it be possible to have a built-in support for writing the footnotes in the margin? (For instance, assuming that the layout is such that for instance the right margin takes 1/3 of the page width, then the footnotes would occupy the right margin, beginning at the top).
It depends on what you want. This works ok:

\setuplayout
   [cutspace=5cm,
    width=middle,
    margin=4cm]

\setuptexttexts
   [margin]
   [] [{\directsetup{notabene}}]

\startsetups notabene
     \vbox to \textheight \bgroup
         \setupalign[tolerant]
         \topskipcorrection
         \placenotes[endnote][before=,after=]
         \vfilll
     \egroup
\stopsetups

\starttext

test \endnote{\input ward }\par
test \endnote{x}\par
test \endnote{x}\par

\setups{notaflush}

\stoptext

This one handles overflow (suboptimal, nicer is stepwise flushing) but 
this one also flushes notes that have refs on the next page. It just 
indicates the usual: most can be done in tex without too much hassle but 
one always needs to think about the edge cases as users can drop 
anything in there and all can interfere.

\newbox\MyNoteOverflow

\startsetups notabene
      \setbox\scratchbox\vbox\bgroup
         \setupalign[tolerant]
         \ifvoid\MyNoteOverflow \else
             \unvbox\MyNoteOverflow
         \fi
         \placenotes[endnote][before=,after=]
     \egroup
     \scratchdimen\dimexpr\textheight-.5\lineheight\relax
     \ifdim\ht\scratchbox>\scratchdimen
         \global\setbox\MyNoteOverflow\box\scratchbox
         \setbox\scratchbox\vsplit \MyNoteOverflow to \scratchdimen
     \fi
     \vbox\bgroup
         \topskipcorrection
         \unvbox\scratchbox
         \vfilll
     \egroup
\stopsetups

\startsetups notaflush
     \doloop {
         \page
         \ifvoid\MyNoteOverflow
            \exitloop
         \else
            \null \page
         \fi
     }
\stopsetups

\starttext

test \endnote{\input ward }\par
test \endnote{x}\par
test \endnote{x}\par

\setups{notaflush}

\stoptext

Variants (i can make one but not with this warm weather) can use 
selective flushing (all kinds of things are possible with notes) but 
another challenge is to have an independent criterium hooked into the 
page builder (when i'm done with playing with extensions regarding pars 
i might give that a go ... as usual more a challenge than a need so i 
need some motive).

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: lmtx update

[Otared Kavian]

> On 31 Jul 2020, at 10:32, Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> 
> […]
> 
> Other work in progress is: better columns in itemize, esp proper footnote support (not that I ever need that but I know users do so ...), experiments work ok, but I need to check spacing. In general, footnotes (will) behave a bit better, especially those used nested in other mechanisms. A side effect of more control is that we can do other tricks too and we're playing with it (kind of fun).

Hi Hans,

Thanks for your explanations.

Regarding footnotes, would it be possible to have a built-in support for writing the footnotes in the margin? (For instance, assuming that the layout is such that for instance the right margin takes 1/3 of the page width, then the footnotes would occupy the right margin, beginning at the top).

Best regards: Otared

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Re: lmtx update

[Hans Hagen]

On 7/31/2020 10:40 AM, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> Hi Hans,
> 
>> On 31 Jul 2020, at 10:32, Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Sorry for the long mail ...
>>
>> One of the changes in lmtx is that we freeze the properties that determine the paragraph shape as well as breaking into lines in such a way that we have predictable behaviour. As a side effect it can be that existing code (lmtx only) will behave differently (will be fixed when we notice) but also that some low level user tweaking can not work, i.e. they are just ignored, but only when they happen mid paragraph which actually is always debatable anyway.
>>
>> Now, if for some reasom you get unexpected results and can't wait for a fix, you can do this:
>>
>>   \forgetparagraphfreezing : disables
>>   \setparagraphfreezing    : enables (default)
> 
> Are those global or local or can they be prefixed? For example, can we do this:
> 
>    \setparagraphfreezing
>    ….
>    \placefigure[left]{}{} {Bla bla \forgetparagraphfreezing .. <override some stuff> }

the forget will basically tell the system that it should use the normal 
(register) variables ... a freeze stores values in the local par node 
but also stores which parameters are stored, so it is selective (one can 
  freeze specific ones

\snapshotpar \frozenhangaftercode

which now makes me think: i can let a negative value do a specific 
unfreeze (\snapshotpar0 will unfreeze all)

> or would that still trigger the built-in freeze ?

the (enabled by default) stored the values right after the par has started

\setparagraphfreezing

so then these values are frozen

a successive change is then not used, but say that you do

\parfillskip100pt

in the middle of a paragraph, then that one will affect the next paragraph

\bgroup
\frozen \parfillskip100pt
\egroup

when this is done inside a paragraph, the assignment is done local, then 
it gets frozen in the current paragraph but it will not affect the next 
paragraph unless of course you used \global

(\frozen is just a prefix and when it's time to do an assignment, just 
like the global state is checked, the frozen state is checked, and 
applied after the normal assignment, of course only for variables that 
deal with the par buildingl it is ignored otherwise; so, \frozen also 
works here: \frozen\advance\leftskip 10pt\relax)

Hans

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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: lmtx update

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hi Hans,

> On 31 Jul 2020, at 10:32, Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Sorry for the long mail ...
> 
> One of the changes in lmtx is that we freeze the properties that determine the paragraph shape as well as breaking into lines in such a way that we have predictable behaviour. As a side effect it can be that existing code (lmtx only) will behave differently (will be fixed when we notice) but also that some low level user tweaking can not work, i.e. they are just ignored, but only when they happen mid paragraph which actually is always debatable anyway.
> 
> Now, if for some reasom you get unexpected results and can't wait for a fix, you can do this:
> 
>  \forgetparagraphfreezing : disables
>  \setparagraphfreezing    : enables (default)

Are those global or local or can they be prefixed? For example, can we do this:

  \setparagraphfreezing
  ….
  \placefigure[left]{}{} {Bla bla \forgetparagraphfreezing .. <override some stuff> }

or would that still trigger the built-in freeze ?


> 
> Of course it might have other side effects once in lmtx we everywhere expect freezing to be enabled. You can take a snapshot with:
> 
>  \freezeparagraphproperties  : snapshot relevant parameters
>  \defrostparagraphproperties : resets snapshot
> 
> More efficient is snapshotting a subcategory:
> 
>  \updateparagraphproperties : all
>  \updateparagraphpenalties  : only penalties
>  \updateparagraphdemerits   : other than penalties
>  \updateparagraphshapes     : hangindent etc
> 
> Don't use the low level commands that they use because we take plenty of time to experiment at that level and interfaces might evolve, for instance:
> 
> \frozen\hangindent 30pt
> \frozen\hangafter  2
> 
> is valid and will likely stay.
> 
> We're talking of a conceptually rather different approach. Internally the engine is still doing the same things but we can control it a bit differently. Due to the way ConTeXt is set up, we can make such a paradigm shift without too much troubles. I'll wrap up more details in an article later.
> 
> Other work in progress is: better columns in itemize, esp proper footnote support (not that I ever need that but I know users do so ...), experiments work ok, but I need to check spacing. In general, footnotes (will) behave a bit better, especially those used nested in other mechanisms. A side effect of more control is that we can do other tricks too and we're playing with it (kind of fun).
> 
> More work in progress concerns paragraph wrappers and that will result in a rewrite of some existing mechanism (generic subsystems with instances), but that might as well go unnoticed.
> 
> To give an idea of possibilities, here is an example:
> 
> \definedescription[whatever][alternative=right:bottom]
> 
> \startwhatever{just a small\\example}
>    \input ward
> \stopwhatever
> 
> No one ever requested it so see it an a quick and dirty example but don't hesitate to ask for more anyway (we like an occasional challenge).
> 
> Anyway, it might take some weeks / iterations before all this settles down and now you can't say that we didn't warn you.
> 
> So far,
> 
> Hans
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>       tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________

Taco Hoekwater
Elvenkind BV




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lmtx update

[Hans Hagen]

Hi,

Sorry for the long mail ...

One of the changes in lmtx is that we freeze the properties that 
determine the paragraph shape as well as breaking into lines in such a 
way that we have predictable behaviour. As a side effect it can be that 
existing code (lmtx only) will behave differently (will be fixed when we 
notice) but also that some low level user tweaking can not work, i.e. 
they are just ignored, but only when they happen mid paragraph which 
actually is always debatable anyway.

Now, if for some reasom you get unexpected results and can't wait for a 
fix, you can do this:

   \forgetparagraphfreezing : disables
   \setparagraphfreezing    : enables (default)

Of course it might have other side effects once in lmtx we everywhere 
expect freezing to be enabled. You can take a snapshot with:

   \freezeparagraphproperties  : snapshot relevant parameters
   \defrostparagraphproperties : resets snapshot

More efficient is snapshotting a subcategory:

   \updateparagraphproperties : all
   \updateparagraphpenalties  : only penalties
   \updateparagraphdemerits   : other than penalties
   \updateparagraphshapes     : hangindent etc

Don't use the low level commands that they use because we take plenty of 
time to experiment at that level and interfaces might evolve, for instance:

\frozen\hangindent 30pt
\frozen\hangafter  2

is valid and will likely stay.

We're talking of a conceptually rather different approach. Internally 
the engine is still doing the same things but we can control it a bit 
differently. Due to the way ConTeXt is set up, we can make such a 
paradigm shift without too much troubles. I'll wrap up more details in 
an article later.

Other work in progress is: better columns in itemize, esp proper 
footnote support (not that I ever need that but I know users do so ...), 
experiments work ok, but I need to check spacing. In general, footnotes 
(will) behave a bit better, especially those used nested in other 
mechanisms. A side effect of more control is that we can do other tricks 
too and we're playing with it (kind of fun).

More work in progress concerns paragraph wrappers and that will result 
in a rewrite of some existing mechanism (generic subsystems with 
instances), but that might as well go unnoticed.

To give an idea of possibilities, here is an example:

\definedescription[whatever][alternative=right:bottom]

\startwhatever{just a small\\example}
     \input ward
\stopwhatever

No one ever requested it so see it an a quick and dirty example but 
don't hesitate to ask for more anyway (we like an occasional challenge).

Anyway, it might take some weeks / iterations before all this settles 
down and now you can't say that we didn't warn you.

So far,

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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