[NTG-context] Fractions (was \placefigure[location=here...] problem)

[NTG-context] Fractions (was \placefigure[location=here...] problem)

[Wolfgang Schuster]

anton.chigurh@mail.com schrieb am 09.12.2023 um 14:15:
> I worked, ;-), thanks.
> Let me ask you another thing, how can I avoid messing up the
> line spacing by using \sqrt and \frac, the line that follows these has increased
> line spacing in the pdf output
>
> code:
> Find the normal and shearing stresses on an oblique plane defined by
> $l=\sqrt{\frac{3}{13}}$, $m=\sqrt{\frac{1}{13}}$, and $n=\sqrt{\frac{9}{13}}$.

Complete working minimal examples are preferred over code snippets.

To avoid single lines with different spacing you can either increase the 
line spacing for all
lines with \setupinterlinespace or you use a different fraction command 
which uses
smaller numbers or creates inline fractions.

\starttext

\startlines
\type{\frac{1}{3}}: \m{\frac{1}{3}}
\type{\xfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\xfrac{1}{3}}
\type{\xxfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\xxfrac{1}{3}}
\type{\tfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\tfrac{1}{3}}
\type{\sfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\sfrac{1}{3}}
\type{\frac{1}{3}}: \m{\frac{1}{3}}
\type{\dfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\dfrac{1}{3}}
\type{\cfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\cfrac{1}{3}}
\type{\vfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\vfrac{1}{3}}
\type{\hfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\hfrac{1}{3}}
\stoplines

\stoptext

Wolfgang

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[NTG-context] Re: Fractions (was \placefigure[location=here...] problem)

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 09.12.23 um 14:43 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:
> anton.chigurh@mail.com schrieb am 09.12.2023 um 14:15:
> \startlines
> \type{\frac{1}{3}}: \m{\frac{1}{3}}
> \type{\xfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\xfrac{1}{3}}
> \type{\xxfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\xxfrac{1}{3}}
> \type{\tfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\tfrac{1}{3}}
> \type{\sfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\sfrac{1}{3}}
> \type{\frac{1}{3}}: \m{\frac{1}{3}}
> \type{\dfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\dfrac{1}{3}}
> \type{\cfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\cfrac{1}{3}}
> \type{\vfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\vfrac{1}{3}}
> \type{\hfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\hfrac{1}{3}}
> \stoplines

There’s also \vulgarfraction{1}{3} (but probably not suitable for your 
application).

Hraban

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[NTG-context] Re: Fractions (was \placefigure[location=here...] problem)

[anton.chigurh]

Thanks :-)
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[NTG-context] Re: Fractions (was \placefigure[location=here...] problem)

[Fabrice Couvreur]

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Hi Wolfgang,
I'm reading this thread and I'm interested because I type a lot of text
with mathematical formulas.
In fact, I find that \dfrac{} creates unsightly leading space and that
\frac{} is too small. What is the difference between \frac{} and \tfrac{} ?
Fabrice

Le sam. 9 déc. 2023 à 14:00, Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net> a écrit :

> Am 09.12.23 um 14:43 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:
> > anton.chigurh@mail.com schrieb am 09.12.2023 um 14:15:
> > \startlines
> > \type{\frac{1}{3}}: \m{\frac{1}{3}}
> > \type{\xfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\xfrac{1}{3}}
> > \type{\xxfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\xxfrac{1}{3}}
> > \type{\tfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\tfrac{1}{3}}
> > \type{\sfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\sfrac{1}{3}}
> > \type{\frac{1}{3}}: \m{\frac{1}{3}}
> > \type{\dfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\dfrac{1}{3}}
> > \type{\cfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\cfrac{1}{3}}
> > \type{\vfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\vfrac{1}{3}}
> > \type{\hfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\hfrac{1}{3}}
> > \stoplines
>
> There’s also \vulgarfraction{1}{3} (but probably not suitable for your
> application).
>
> Hraban
>
>
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>
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>

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[NTG-context] Re: Fractions (was \placefigure[location=here...] problem)

[Wolfgang Schuster]

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Fabrice Couvreur schrieb am 09.12.2023 um 16:13:
> Hi Wolfgang,
> I'm reading this thread and I'm interested because I type a lot of 
> text with mathematical formulas.
> In fact, I find that \dfrac{} creates unsightly leading space and that 
> \frac{} is too small. What is the difference between \frac{} and 
> \tfrac{} ?

\frac switches the math style while \tfrac (textstyle), \dfrac 
(displaystyle) and \sfrac (scriptstyle) enforce a certain style.

%%%% begin example
\startbuffer[frac]
\frac{1}{2} + \dfrac{1}{2} - \tfrac{1}{2} + \sfrac{1}{2}
\stopbuffer

\starttext

\startformula
\getbuffer[frac]
\stopformula

\m{\getbuffer[frac]}

\startformula
   \frac
     {\getbuffer[frac]}
     {\getbuffer[frac]}
\stopformula

\m{\frac
   {\getbuffer[frac]}
   {\getbuffer[frac]}}

\stoptext
%%%% end example

Wolfgang


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[NTG-context] Re: Fractions (was \placefigure[location=here...] problem)

[Wolfgang Schuster]

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Fabrice Couvreur schrieb am 09.12.2023 um 17:19:
> Very clear !
> In typography for Mathematics books, what choice should we make for 
> the best possible result ?

A question better answered by Mikael or Aditya!

Wolfgang


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[NTG-context] Re: Fractions (was \placefigure[location=here...] problem)

[Mikael Sundqvist]

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Hi,

On Sat, Dec 9, 2023 at 4:39 PM Wolfgang Schuster
<wolfgang.schuster.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Fabrice Couvreur schrieb am 09.12.2023 um 17:19:
>
> Very clear !
> In typography for Mathematics books, what choice should we make for the best possible result ?
>
>
> A question better answered by Mikael or Aditya!

Thank you for your trust, Wolfgang. I am not sure I have something
valuable to say in addition to Adityas suggestion \frac{1/3} in inline
math. In any case, I attach a passage, with suggestions inspired by
Lansburgh's book (iin Swedish). Not sure the file size makes it
through to the list, though.

/Mikael

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[NTG-context] Re: Fractions

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 09.12.23 um 23:30 schrieb Mikael Sundqvist:
> Hi,
> 
> On Sat, Dec 9, 2023 at 4:39 PM Wolfgang Schuster
> <wolfgang.schuster.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Fabrice Couvreur schrieb am 09.12.2023 um 17:19:
>>
>> Very clear !
>> In typography for Mathematics books, what choice should we make for the best possible result ?
>>
>> A question better answered by Mikael or Aditya!
> 
> Thank you for your trust, Wolfgang. I am not sure I have something
> valuable to say in addition to Adityas suggestion \frac{1/3} in inline
> math. In any case, I attach a passage, with suggestions inspired by
> Lansburgh's book (iin Swedish). Not sure the file size makes it
> through to the list, though.

Thank you!

I usually only need simple inline fractions like 1/n, 1/2 or 3/8 in text.
With these and \frac, the spacing below the numerator (depth) is too 
big, while the denominator sticks too tightly to the fraction bar.
(Of course I use regular numbers for fractions, not mediaeval.)

Usually I’d prefer “vulgar fractions”, but \vulgarfraction looks 
“horrible” in comparison to the few usual fractions contained in fonts 
(like ½ & ¾).

I tried to use the OpenType fraction features to no avail.

So I’m still looking for “the best” solution for simple fractions inline.

Hraban
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[NTG-context] Re: Fractions

[Gavin via ntg-context]

Hello fraction fascinated friends,

> On Dec 10, 2023, at 5:24 AM, Henning Hraban Ramm <texml@fiee.net> wrote:
> 
> Am 09.12.23 um 23:30 schrieb Mikael Sundqvist:
>> Hi,
>> On Sat, Dec 9, 2023 at 4:39 PM Wolfgang Schuster
>> <wolfgang.schuster.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Fabrice Couvreur schrieb am 09.12.2023 um 17:19:
>>> 
>>> Very clear !
>>> In typography for Mathematics books, what choice should we make for the best possible result ?
>>> 
>>> A question better answered by Mikael or Aditya!
>> Thank you for your trust, Wolfgang. I am not sure I have something
>> valuable to say in addition to Adityas suggestion \frac{1/3} in inline
>> math. In any case, I attach a passage, with suggestions inspired by
>> Lansburgh's book (iin Swedish). Not sure the file size makes it
>> through to the list, though.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> I usually only need simple inline fractions like 1/n, 1/2 or 3/8 in text.
> With these and \frac, the spacing below the numerator (depth) is too big, while the denominator sticks too tightly to the fraction bar.
> (Of course I use regular numbers for fractions, not mediaeval.)
> 
> Usually I’d prefer “vulgar fractions”, but \vulgarfraction looks “horrible” in comparison to the few usual fractions contained in fonts (like ½ & ¾).
> 
> I tried to use the OpenType fraction features to no avail.
> 
> So I’m still looking for “the best” solution for simple fractions inline.
> 
> Hraban

I also use fractions frequently, so I’ve tried a few things.

Some fonts have superior and inferior numbers that can be used to make small slash fractions. I’ve done this, but my method is not pretty. Hraban suggested using font features for this, but I haven’t learned how to do that. Any advice is welcome.

Example code below uses the Libertinus font, which has these superior and inferior numbers, to produce sample paragraph demonstrating a few options for fractions in text.

Gavin


\usetypescriptfile[libertinus]
\setupbodyfont [libertinus,11pt]%
\setupinterlinespace[line=3.1ex]

\define\fracone{\getnamedglyphdirect{libertinus}{onesuperior}} % 1
\define\fracthree{\getnamedglyphdirect{libertinus}{threesuperior}} % 3
\define\fracnine{\getnamedglyphdirect{libertinus}{ninesuperior}} % 9

\define\thirteenths{\textfraction\getnamedglyphdirect{libertinus}{oneinferior}\getnamedglyphdirect{libertinus}{threeinferior}} % /13

\define\onethirteenth{\text{\fracone\thirteenths}} % 1/13
\define\threethirteenths{\text{\fracthree\thirteenths}} % 3/13
\define\ninethirteenths{\text{\fracnine\thirteenths}} % 9/13

\starttext
Some small fractions are already available in many fonts, like \onehalf\ and \onethird. Others can be built using superior and inferior numbers in some fonts. This includes the fractions required to
find the normal and shearing stresses on an oblique plane defined by $l=\sqrt{\threethirteenths}$, $m=\sqrt{\onethirteenth}$, and $n=\sqrt{\ninethirteenths}$.
Of course, you could just find the normal and shearing stresses on an oblique plane defined by $l=\sqrt{3/13}$, $m=\sqrt{1/13}$, and $n=\sqrt{9/13}$.
Vulgar fractions are between these extremes.
Find the normal and shearing stresses on an oblique plane defined by $l=\sqrt{\vfrac{3}{13}}$, $m=\sqrt{\vfrac{1}{13}}$, and $n=\sqrt{\vfrac{9}{13}}$.
I included more text than strictly necessary in this example to demonstrate the effect on line spacing.
\stoptext
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[NTG-context] Re: Fractions

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 10.12.23 um 13:24 schrieb Henning Hraban Ramm:
> Usually I’d prefer “vulgar fractions”, but \vulgarfraction looks 
> “horrible” in comparison to the few usual fractions contained in fonts 
> (like ½ & ¾).

I take this back: I had a problem in my font setup.
Usually, \vulgarfraction is quite okay.

Hraban
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[NTG-context] Re: Fractions (was \placefigure[location=here...] problem)

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Sat, 9 Dec 2023, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

> \starttext
> 
> \startlines
> \type{\frac{1}{3}}: \m{\frac{1}{3}}
> \type{\xfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\xfrac{1}{3}}
> \type{\xxfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\xxfrac{1}{3}}
> \type{\tfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\tfrac{1}{3}}
> \type{\sfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\sfrac{1}{3}}
> \type{\frac{1}{3}}: \m{\frac{1}{3}}
> \type{\dfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\dfrac{1}{3}}
> \type{\cfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\cfrac{1}{3}}
> \type{\vfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\vfrac{1}{3}}
> \type{\hfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\hfrac{1}{3}}
> \stoplines
> 
> \stoptext

Or, for inline math, $\sqrt{1/3}$. 

Aditya
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[NTG-context] Re: Fractions (was \placefigure[location=here...] problem)

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

On 12/9/2023 4:33 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Dec 2023, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> 
>> \starttext
>>
>> \startlines
>> \type{\frac{1}{3}}: \m{\frac{1}{3}}
>> \type{\xfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\xfrac{1}{3}}
>> \type{\xxfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\xxfrac{1}{3}}
>> \type{\tfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\tfrac{1}{3}}
>> \type{\sfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\sfrac{1}{3}}
>> \type{\frac{1}{3}}: \m{\frac{1}{3}}
>> \type{\dfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\dfrac{1}{3}}
>> \type{\cfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\cfrac{1}{3}}
>> \type{\vfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\vfrac{1}{3}}
>> \type{\hfrac{1}{3}}: \m{\hfrac{1}{3}}
>> \stoplines
>>
>> \stoptext
> 
> Or, for inline math, $\sqrt{1/3}$.
radicals are somewhat special to deal with:

- multidimensional delimiter
- vertical spacing inside
- horizontal spacing oustside
- anchoring degrees
- left and right radicals
- more consistent rules (char based)
- size dependent additional spacing (avoid clash)
- normalize size across formula
- lack of granularity in variants sizes

by now we have dealt with all of that (some not in the current release), 
think of additional control in the engine, compensation for insufficient 
opentype math features, companion fonts with more sizes

there will always be suboptimal cases but the average is ok (we put 
radical - character kerning on hold because it is a lot of definitions) 
and we don't want to add hard to fight heuristics

so to inline: in most cases the solution that Adirya suggests will work 
out okay with respect toline spacing

Hans


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