* English-Vietnamese facing pages
@ 2023-04-03 9:54 jbf via ntg-context
2023-04-03 10:15 ` Taco Hoekwater via ntg-context
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: jbf via ntg-context @ 2023-04-03 9:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: jbf
Am always up for a challenge, but hope this one is not beyond my
possibilities! Have a request to produce a book with English-Vietnamese
facing pages. The text doesn't have to be strictly in sync, but
generally so. The only ConTeXt guidelines I think I have at the moment
are (1) an old module called m-streams (which I am assuming is now
obsolete), and (2) an exchange of emails on this list over a decade
about bilingual typesetting.
It won't bother me too much if I have to tell the intending author and
his editor that this might be beyond me, but before taking that stance,
I have a couple of simple questions that someone might be able to
respond to. And, BTW, the Vietnamese font is not the problem. Tex Gyre
Pagella seems to be able to cope with that at least!
Q 1: Has anybody reading this actually produced a bilingual book (it
doesn't have to be en-vn) with ConTeXt? And if so would you be prepared
to offer me some basic guidelines?
Q 2: There is some guidance from Wolfgang on
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Columns towards the end of that page. I
tried two or three pages of the first chapter of the book, placing
English in outputstream[one] and the Vietnamese in outputstream[two] and
kind of got a suitable result except that the last paragraph of both
languages ended up BEFORE the chapter began. No idea why. The rest
seemed okay. So my question is whether or not Wolfgang's sample (where
he says 'a simple example but I had to write the splitter myself') would
be sufficient for me to put the book together?
Q 2: I suppose the third question is whether, since LMTX, there has been
any further development in the 'streams' mechanism that might help me?
Julian
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread* Re: English-Vietnamese facing pages
2023-04-03 9:54 English-Vietnamese facing pages jbf via ntg-context
@ 2023-04-03 10:15 ` Taco Hoekwater via ntg-context
2023-04-04 0:54 ` jbf via ntg-context
2023-04-03 10:55 ` Peter Münster via ntg-context
2023-04-03 12:04 ` Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context
2 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Taco Hoekwater via ntg-context @ 2023-04-03 10:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Taco Hoekwater
> On 3 Apr 2023, at 11:54, jbf via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
>
> Am always up for a challenge, but hope this one is not beyond my possibilities! Have a request to produce a book with English-Vietnamese facing pages. The text doesn't have to be strictly in sync, but generally so. The only ConTeXt guidelines I think I have at the moment are (1) an old module called m-streams (which I am assuming is now obsolete), and (2) an exchange of emails on this list over a decade about bilingual typesetting.
>
> It won't bother me too much if I have to tell the intending author and his editor that this might be beyond me, but before taking that stance, I have a couple of simple questions that someone might be able to respond to. And, BTW, the Vietnamese font is not the problem. Tex Gyre Pagella seems to be able to cope with that at least!
>
> Q 1: Has anybody reading this actually produced a bilingual book (it doesn't have to be en-vn) with ConTeXt? And if so would you be prepared to offer me some basic guideline
Way, way back when, I did a document in NL + EN by creating two separate pdfs for the page bodies only and using a third context doc to included those pages alternated, with the correct headers added in that third document. Not a ’nice’ solution at all, but it worked for me. (this was in the nineties, though)
>
> Q 2: There is some guidance from Wolfgang on https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Columns towards the end of that page. I tried two or three pages of the first chapter of the book, placing English in outputstream[one] and the Vietnamese in outputstream[two] and kind of got a suitable result except that the last paragraph of both languages ended up BEFORE the chapter began. No idea why. The rest seemed okay. So my question is whether or not Wolfgang's sample (where he says 'a simple example but I had to write the splitter myself') would be sufficient for me to put the book together?
>
> Q 2: I suppose the third question is whether, since LMTX, there has been any further development in the 'streams' mechanism that might help me?
>
> Julian
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : https://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
—
Taco Hoekwater E: taco@bittext.nl
genderfluid (all pronouns)
___________________________________________________________________________________
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: English-Vietnamese facing pages
2023-04-03 10:15 ` Taco Hoekwater via ntg-context
@ 2023-04-04 0:54 ` jbf via ntg-context
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: jbf via ntg-context @ 2023-04-04 0:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Taco Hoekwater; +Cc: jbf, mailing list for ConTeXt users
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Okay Taco, so that's a possibility I can explore, even though it is not
a nice one, as you say. I can think of a couple of other not-so-nice
ways of achieving a result as well. The manuscript shown me (in MSWord,
obviously) has been carefully prepared to ensure no text flows over a
page, so we are really dealing with separate pages. But of course, all
that changes once page dimensions and font size etc. get involved at the
ConTeXt stage.
However, you gave me a clue: 3 files: "by creating two separate pdfs for
the page bodies only and using a third context doc to include those
pages alternated'.
For the first chapter of the proposed book I have tried Wolfgang's
suggestion as listed in https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Columns#Streams
by simply using the \input method. Obviously 'en' and 'vn' stand for two
tex files set up as I normally would with preamble and bodymatter. I
certainly get a good result once the chapter starts. It would seem
logical that further chapters can be added. Obviously I only want one
TOC, not two (only call it in for, say, the en.tex but not for vn.tex)
and for some reason I have several blank pages before everything
starts... but hopefully can solve that. Maybe I can adapt what we have
below with the project structure.
Not ready to give up yet!
Julian
\starttext
\startoutputstream[one]
\startcolor[red]
\input en\par
\stopcolor
\stopoutputstream
\startoutputstream[two]
\startcolor[blue]
\input vn\par
\stopcolor
\stopoutputstream
\synchronizestreams[one,two]
\setbox\scratchboxone\outputstreambox[one]
\setbox\scratchboxtwo\outputstreambox[two]
\doloop
{\ifvoid\scratchboxone
\exitloop
\else
\setbox\scratchboxfour\vsplit\scratchboxone to \textheight
\vbox to \vsize{\box\scratchboxfour\vss}%
\setbox\scratchboxfive\vsplit\scratchboxtwo to \textheight
\vbox to \vsize{\box\scratchboxfive\vss}%
\fi}
\stoptext
On 3/4/23 20:15, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> Way, way back when, I did a document in NL + EN by creating two separate pdfs for the page bodies only and using a third context doc to included those pages alternated, with the correct headers added in that third document. Not a ’nice’ solution at all, but it worked for me. (this was in the nineties, though)
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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: English-Vietnamese facing pages
2023-04-03 9:54 English-Vietnamese facing pages jbf via ntg-context
2023-04-03 10:15 ` Taco Hoekwater via ntg-context
@ 2023-04-03 10:55 ` Peter Münster via ntg-context
2023-04-04 0:57 ` jbf via ntg-context
2023-04-03 12:04 ` Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context
2 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Peter Münster via ntg-context @ 2023-04-03 10:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ConTeXt users; +Cc: Peter Münster
On Mon, Apr 03 2023, jbf via ntg-context wrote:
> Q 1: Has anybody reading this actually produced a bilingual book (it doesn't
> have to be en-vn) with ConTeXt?
Hi,
Only some pages of a book: https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Catalogue_raisonné
HTH,
--
Peter
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread* Re: English-Vietnamese facing pages
2023-04-03 10:55 ` Peter Münster via ntg-context
@ 2023-04-04 0:57 ` jbf via ntg-context
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: jbf via ntg-context @ 2023-04-04 0:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Peter Münster via ntg-context; +Cc: jbf, mailing list for ConTeXt users
Thanks Peter. I took a look at your lua pages. I think I would get
entirely lost with that code at this stage, and of course I am not
considering (at least not for now) a two-column approach, but facing
pages. But at least you achieved what you were trying to do at the time.
Hopefully I will also!
Julian
On 3/4/23 20:55, Peter Münster via ntg-context wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 03 2023, jbf via ntg-context wrote:
>
>> Q 1: Has anybody reading this actually produced a bilingual book (it doesn't
>> have to be en-vn) with ConTeXt?
> Hi,
>
> Only some pages of a book: https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Catalogue_raisonné
>
> HTH,
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: English-Vietnamese facing pages
2023-04-03 9:54 English-Vietnamese facing pages jbf via ntg-context
2023-04-03 10:15 ` Taco Hoekwater via ntg-context
2023-04-03 10:55 ` Peter Münster via ntg-context
@ 2023-04-03 12:04 ` Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context
2023-04-04 1:13 ` jbf via ntg-context
2 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context @ 2023-04-03 12:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: jbf via ntg-context; +Cc: Henning Hraban Ramm
Am 03.04.23 um 11:54 schrieb jbf via ntg-context:
> Q 2: I suppose the third question is whether, since LMTX, there has been
> any further development in the 'streams' mechanism that might help me?
No.
This is one these problems that arise once every other year, but so far
nobody contributed a usable solution or at least specification. (That’s
how I understood Hans when I asked about this fo my book.)
Hraban
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
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