English-Vietnamese facing pages

English-Vietnamese facing pages

[jbf via ntg-context]

Am always up for a challenge, but hope this one is not beyond my 
possibilities! Have a request to produce a book with English-Vietnamese 
facing pages. The text doesn't have to be strictly in sync, but 
generally so. The only ConTeXt guidelines I think I have at the moment 
are (1) an old module called m-streams (which I am assuming is now 
obsolete), and (2) an exchange of emails on this list over a decade 
about bilingual typesetting.

It won't bother me too much if I have to tell the intending author and 
his editor that this might be beyond me, but before taking that stance, 
I have a couple of simple questions that someone might be able to 
respond to. And, BTW, the Vietnamese font is not the problem. Tex Gyre 
Pagella seems to be able to cope with that at least!

Q 1: Has anybody reading this actually produced a bilingual book (it 
doesn't have to be en-vn) with ConTeXt? And if so would you be prepared 
to offer me some basic guidelines?

Q 2: There is some guidance from Wolfgang on 
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Columns towards the end of that page. I 
tried two or three pages of the first chapter of the book, placing 
English in outputstream[one] and the Vietnamese in outputstream[two] and 
kind of got a suitable result except that the last paragraph of both 
languages ended up BEFORE the chapter began. No idea why. The rest 
seemed okay. So my question is whether or not Wolfgang's sample (where 
he says 'a simple example but I had to write the splitter myself') would 
be sufficient for me to put the book together?

Q 2: I suppose the third question is whether, since LMTX, there has been 
any further development in the 'streams' mechanism that might help me?

Julian

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Re: English-Vietnamese facing pages

[Taco Hoekwater via ntg-context]

> On 3 Apr 2023, at 11:54, jbf via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
> 
> Am always up for a challenge, but hope this one is not beyond my possibilities! Have a request to produce a book with English-Vietnamese facing pages. The text doesn't have to be strictly in sync, but generally so. The only ConTeXt guidelines I think I have at the moment are (1) an old module called m-streams (which I am assuming is now obsolete), and (2) an exchange of emails on this list over a decade about bilingual typesetting.
> 
> It won't bother me too much if I have to tell the intending author and his editor that this might be beyond me, but before taking that stance, I have a couple of simple questions that someone might be able to respond to. And, BTW, the Vietnamese font is not the problem. Tex Gyre Pagella seems to be able to cope with that at least!
> 
> Q 1: Has anybody reading this actually produced a bilingual book (it doesn't have to be en-vn) with ConTeXt? And if so would you be prepared to offer me some basic guideline

Way, way back when, I did a document in NL + EN by creating two separate pdfs for the page bodies only and using a third context doc to included those pages alternated, with the correct headers added in that third document. Not a ’nice’ solution at all, but it worked for me. (this was in the nineties, though)

> 
> Q 2: There is some guidance from Wolfgang on https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Columns towards the end of that page. I tried two or three pages of the first chapter of the book, placing English in outputstream[one] and the Vietnamese in outputstream[two] and kind of got a suitable result except that the last paragraph of both languages ended up BEFORE the chapter began. No idea why. The rest seemed okay. So my question is whether or not Wolfgang's sample (where he says 'a simple example but I had to write the splitter myself') would be sufficient for me to put the book together?
> 
> Q 2: I suppose the third question is whether, since LMTX, there has been any further development in the 'streams' mechanism that might help me?
> 
> Julian
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> wiki     : https://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

— 
Taco Hoekwater              E: taco@bittext.nl
genderfluid (all pronouns)


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Re: English-Vietnamese facing pages

[Peter Münster via ntg-context]

On Mon, Apr 03 2023, jbf via ntg-context wrote:

> Q 1: Has anybody reading this actually produced a bilingual book (it doesn't
> have to be en-vn) with ConTeXt?

Hi,

Only some pages of a book: https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Catalogue_raisonné

HTH,
-- 
           Peter
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Re: English-Vietnamese facing pages

[Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context]

Am 03.04.23 um 11:54 schrieb jbf via ntg-context:

> Q 2: I suppose the third question is whether, since LMTX, there has been 
> any further development in the 'streams' mechanism that might help me?

No.

This is one these problems that arise once every other year, but so far 
nobody contributed a usable solution or at least specification. (That’s 
how I understood Hans when I asked about this fo my book.)

Hraban

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Re: English-Vietnamese facing pages

[jbf via ntg-context]

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Okay Taco, so that's a possibility I can explore, even though it is not 
a nice one, as you say. I can think of a couple of other not-so-nice 
ways of achieving a result as well. The manuscript shown me (in MSWord, 
obviously) has been carefully prepared to ensure no text flows over a 
page, so we are really dealing with separate pages. But of course, all 
that changes once page dimensions and font size etc. get involved at the 
ConTeXt stage.

However, you gave me a clue: 3 files: "by creating two separate pdfs for 
the page bodies only and using a third context doc to include those 
pages alternated'.

For the first chapter of the proposed book I have tried Wolfgang's 
suggestion as listed in https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Columns#Streams 
by simply using the \input method. Obviously 'en' and 'vn' stand for two 
tex files set up as I normally would with preamble and bodymatter. I 
certainly get a good result once the chapter starts. It would seem 
logical that further chapters can be added. Obviously I only want one 
TOC, not two (only call it in for, say, the en.tex but not for vn.tex) 
and for some reason I have several blank pages before everything 
starts... but hopefully can solve that. Maybe I can adapt what we have 
below with the project structure.

Not ready to give up yet!

Julian

\starttext

\startoutputstream[one]

\startcolor[red]

\input en\par

\stopcolor

\stopoutputstream

\startoutputstream[two]

\startcolor[blue]

\input vn\par

\stopcolor

\stopoutputstream

\synchronizestreams[one,two]

\setbox\scratchboxone\outputstreambox[one]

\setbox\scratchboxtwo\outputstreambox[two]

\doloop

{\ifvoid\scratchboxone

\exitloop

\else

\setbox\scratchboxfour\vsplit\scratchboxone to \textheight

\vbox to \vsize{\box\scratchboxfour\vss}%

\setbox\scratchboxfive\vsplit\scratchboxtwo to \textheight

\vbox to \vsize{\box\scratchboxfive\vss}%

\fi}

\stoptext

On 3/4/23 20:15, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> Way, way back when, I did a document in NL + EN by creating two separate pdfs for the page bodies only and using a third context doc to included those pages alternated, with the correct headers added in that third document. Not a ’nice’ solution at all, but it worked for me. (this was in the nineties, though)

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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 496 bytes --]

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Re: English-Vietnamese facing pages

[jbf via ntg-context]

Thanks Peter. I took a look at your lua pages. I think I would get 
entirely lost with that code at this stage, and of course I am not 
considering (at least not for now) a two-column approach, but facing 
pages. But at least you achieved what you were trying to do at the time. 
Hopefully I will also!

Julian

On 3/4/23 20:55, Peter Münster via ntg-context wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 03 2023, jbf via ntg-context wrote:
>
>> Q 1: Has anybody reading this actually produced a bilingual book (it doesn't
>> have to be en-vn) with ConTeXt?
> Hi,
>
> Only some pages of a book: https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Catalogue_raisonné
>
> HTH,
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Re: English-Vietnamese facing pages

[jbf via ntg-context]

Yes, that is clear from the emails over a decade or so on the list. But 
as you will see from my response to Taco, it is possible I can achieve a 
satisfactory result from Wolfgang's 2016 'stream' suggestion.

Julian

On 3/4/23 22:04, Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context wrote:
> This is one these problems that arise once every other year, but so 
> far nobody contributed a usable solution or at least specification. 
> (That’s how I understood Hans when I asked about this fo my book.) 
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