* [TUHS] Qed vs ed @ 2021-01-31 3:16 Will Senn 2021-01-31 3:48 ` Will Senn 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Will Senn @ 2021-01-31 3:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs Hi all, So. On a lighter note. I was tooling around the web and came across a discussion of QED, the editor. It’s been resurrected in no small part based on discussions on this list (and members like Rob Pike). Anyhow, there’s a version that compiles in modern systems and that handles wide characters. My question for the group is this how different is QED from ed? I’ve read Dennis’ paper on the history of QED and it’s fascinating, but all I really got out of the discussion related to ed, was that QED was a precursor. I’m curious about functional parity or lack thereof, more than technical differences. In full disclosure, and at the risk of drawing fire from lovers of other editors, I have to confess a love of the original ed (and it’s decendent ed’s and vi). Cheers, Will Sent from my iPhone ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Qed vs ed 2021-01-31 3:16 [TUHS] Qed vs ed Will Senn @ 2021-01-31 3:48 ` Will Senn 2021-01-31 3:58 ` Will Senn 2021-01-31 4:07 ` Al Kossow 0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Will Senn @ 2021-01-31 3:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1179 bytes --] On 1/30/21 9:16 PM, Will Senn wrote: > Hi all, > > So. On a lighter note. I was tooling around the web and came across a discussion of QED, the editor. It’s been resurrected in no small part based on discussions on this list (and members like Rob Pike). Anyhow, there’s a version that compiles in modern systems and that handles wide characters. My question for the group is this how different is QED from ed? I’ve read Dennis’ paper on the history of QED and it’s fascinating, but all I really got out of the discussion related to ed, was that QED was a precursor. I’m curious about functional parity or lack thereof, more than technical differences. In full disclosure, and at the risk of drawing fire from lovers of other editors, I have to confess a love of the original ed (and it’s decendent ed’s and vi). > > Cheers, > > Will > > > > Sent from my iPhone Here's the link to the article that kicked off this line of inquiry: https://leahneukirchen.org/blog/archive/2021/01/remembering-the-work-of-david-m-tilbrook-and-the-qed-editor.html Does anyone know of any effort to show the family tree of editors, similar to what we have for unix and linux? Will [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1778 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Qed vs ed 2021-01-31 3:48 ` Will Senn @ 2021-01-31 3:58 ` Will Senn 2021-01-31 4:07 ` Al Kossow 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Will Senn @ 2021-01-31 3:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1429 bytes --] On 1/30/21 9:48 PM, Will Senn wrote: > On 1/30/21 9:16 PM, Will Senn wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> So. On a lighter note. I was tooling around the web and came across a discussion of QED, the editor. It’s been resurrected in no small part based on discussions on this list (and members like Rob Pike). Anyhow, there’s a version that compiles in modern systems and that handles wide characters. My question for the group is this how different is QED from ed? I’ve read Dennis’ paper on the history of QED and it’s fascinating, but all I really got out of the discussion related to ed, was that QED was a precursor. I’m curious about functional parity or lack thereof, more than technical differences. In full disclosure, and at the risk of drawing fire from lovers of other editors, I have to confess a love of the original ed (and it’s decendent ed’s and vi). >> >> Cheers, >> >> Will >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone > Here's the link to the article that kicked off this line of inquiry: > > https://leahneukirchen.org/blog/archive/2021/01/remembering-the-work-of-david-m-tilbrook-and-the-qed-editor.html > > Does anyone know of any effort to show the family tree of editors, > similar to what we have for unix and linux? > > Will Ah, heck - Dennis says QED influenced ed, but the first line of the description in QED (1) (Mar/82) is: Qed is a multiple-file programmable text editor based on ed. Which is it? Will [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2958 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Qed vs ed 2021-01-31 3:48 ` Will Senn 2021-01-31 3:58 ` Will Senn @ 2021-01-31 4:07 ` Al Kossow 2021-01-31 7:00 ` Lars Brinkhoff 2021-01-31 10:04 ` arnold 1 sibling, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Al Kossow @ 2021-01-31 4:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs > https://leahneukirchen.org/blog/archive/2021/01/remembering-the-work-of-david-m-tilbrook-and-the-qed-editor.html references https://github.com/arnoldrobbins/qed-archive/tree/master/sds-940 SDS 940 QED "These files were supplied to me by Lars Brinkhoff (lars AT nocrew.org). I have no idea where he got them." Me, assuming he pulled them from the SDS940 tapes I recovered and are on bitsavers The .pdf scans are from me, so I assume the code came from bitsavers as well. Shit like this pisses me off. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Qed vs ed 2021-01-31 4:07 ` Al Kossow @ 2021-01-31 7:00 ` Lars Brinkhoff 2021-01-31 8:29 ` Rob Pike 2021-01-31 10:04 ` arnold 1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Lars Brinkhoff @ 2021-01-31 7:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Al Kossow; +Cc: tuhs Al Kossow wrote: > https://github.com/arnoldrobbins/qed-archive/tree/master/sds-940 > > SDS 940 QED > > "These files were supplied to me by Lars Brinkhoff (lars AT > nocrew.org). I have no idea where he got them." > > Me, assuming he pulled them from the SDS940 tapes I recovered and are > on bitsavers > > The .pdf scans are from me, so I assume the code came from bitsavers as well. I got everything in a zip file from Mark Emmer when I asked him about QED. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Qed vs ed 2021-01-31 7:00 ` Lars Brinkhoff @ 2021-01-31 8:29 ` Rob Pike 2021-01-31 9:28 ` Jaap Akkerhuis 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Rob Pike @ 2021-01-31 8:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Brinkhoff; +Cc: TUHS main list [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2331 bytes --] The version of qed Leah refers to is not pure. It was created in the late 1970s by Tom Duff, Hugh Redelmeier, David Tilbrook and myself by hacking the (already hacked) v6 ed we had at the University of Toronto, to restore some of the programmability that had been removed when ed was created, and to have fun. Mostly to have fun. Tom Duff used a real QED (sic) on the GCOS at Waterloo and was a bit conflicted about all this. For me the programmability was fun, and I wrote the tutorial, but what ended up sticking with me was the ability to edit multiple files simultaneously, something no other editor I had available could do. I don't mean switching between files, I mean making things like global substitutions across *.c. I'd start a session by typing qed *.[ch] and go from there. Our qed traveled with me from Caltech to Bell Labs, where I used it to write jim, which I used to write sam, which I used to write Acme. I tried vi when starting jim, but again the one file thing was too much to bear. I also tried emacs, which could in principle handle multiple files but the interface was cumbersome - it was much too hard to open a new file in a subwindow - and without regular expressions I gave up after a day or two. Also with a 2-d screen and a 1-d input device (no mouse), vi and emacs were too remote, like giving directions to someone holding a map without being able to point at the map. Describing where you want to point rather than just pointing. Anyway that was 40 or so years ago, and it's clear from the screens on others' desks at work that my opinion on those matters is not widely shared. I had a lot of fun hacking qed, mostly side-by-side with Tilbrook, who was its biggest fan. He taught me a lot and I loved working with him. -rob On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 6:01 PM Lars Brinkhoff <lars@nocrew.org> wrote: > Al Kossow wrote: > > https://github.com/arnoldrobbins/qed-archive/tree/master/sds-940 > > > > SDS 940 QED > > > > "These files were supplied to me by Lars Brinkhoff (lars AT > > nocrew.org). I have no idea where he got them." > > > > Me, assuming he pulled them from the SDS940 tapes I recovered and are > > on bitsavers > > > > The .pdf scans are from me, so I assume the code came from bitsavers as > well. > > I got everything in a zip file from Mark Emmer when I asked him about QED. > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3029 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Qed vs ed 2021-01-31 8:29 ` Rob Pike @ 2021-01-31 9:28 ` Jaap Akkerhuis 0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Jaap Akkerhuis @ 2021-01-31 9:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Rob Pike; +Cc: TUHS main list [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 437 bytes --] > On Jan 31, 2021, at 9:29, Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote: > > I had a lot of fun hacking qed, mostly side-by-side with Tilbrook, who was its biggest fan. He taught me a lot and I loved working with him. Woking with David was great and always inspiring. I used to have an early version of his QEF system which did QED on it. He never stopped tinkeing with that. Alas, the tape got lost in one of my relocations. jaap [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1285 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Message signed with OpenPGP --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 267 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Qed vs ed 2021-01-31 4:07 ` Al Kossow 2021-01-31 7:00 ` Lars Brinkhoff @ 2021-01-31 10:04 ` arnold 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: arnold @ 2021-01-31 10:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs, aek Al, I'm sorry you're pissed off. I was simply being honest about the provenance of what's in the archive. Now that I know more, I will update the README files to give you credit. Arnold Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote: > > > https://leahneukirchen.org/blog/archive/2021/01/remembering-the-work-of-david-m-tilbrook-and-the-qed-editor.html > > references > > https://github.com/arnoldrobbins/qed-archive/tree/master/sds-940 > > SDS 940 QED > > "These files were supplied to me by Lars Brinkhoff (lars AT nocrew.org). I have no idea where he got them." > > Me, assuming he pulled them from the SDS940 tapes I recovered and are on bitsavers > > The .pdf scans are from me, so I assume the code came from bitsavers as well. > > Shit like this pisses me off. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2021-01-31 10:04 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2021-01-31 3:16 [TUHS] Qed vs ed Will Senn 2021-01-31 3:48 ` Will Senn 2021-01-31 3:58 ` Will Senn 2021-01-31 4:07 ` Al Kossow 2021-01-31 7:00 ` Lars Brinkhoff 2021-01-31 8:29 ` Rob Pike 2021-01-31 9:28 ` Jaap Akkerhuis 2021-01-31 10:04 ` arnold
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