[TUHS] TCP/IP implementations

[TUHS] TCP/IP implementations

[Michael Sokolov]

"=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jos=E9?= R. Valverde" <jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es> wrote:

> While working at the Biomedical Research Institute (Madrid, Spain) I got a
> quote from DEC for access to Ultrix source code. As I remember it, it wasn't
> that expensive (~1000$ for an academic license) and I mused bout acquiring=
> =20
> it for some time. My na=EFvete at the time prevented me from ordering it (t=
> hat
> and the availability of BSD sources).

Ultrix-32 sources can be found on ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG in
/pub/UNIX/thirdparty/Ultrix-32/sources available via anonymous FTP.

MS

[TUHS] research unix

[Tim Newsham]

What has become of the various research unix releases after
7th edition?  Have any of these ever been released publically?
Are any of them being archived for historical reasons?  Are any
of the versions publically available now?

Tim N.

[TUHS] research unix

[Warren Toomey]

On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 06:23:31PM -1000, Tim Newsham wrote:
> What has become of the various research unix releases after
> 7th edition?  Have any of these ever been released publically?
> Are any of them being archived for historical reasons?  Are any
> of the versions publically available now?

I'm sure that Norman Wilson will answer with a more definitive
answer, but...  2 reasons: there wasn't the concept of a "release"
with 8th, 9th or 10th Edition, they were purely internal
always-in-development systems. The other reason is that, as time
went on, more code from non-AT&T places was incorporated. It will
be difficult to get the clearance from all the copyright holders
to let a snapshot of any of these systems out.

	Warren

[TUHS] research unix

[Wesley Parish]

As far as I know, they're still held tightly by whatever part of AT&T 
inherited them.

They should be released - for a variety of reasons, amongst them the pulling 
of the teeth of various entities intent on muddying the waters with an 
outflux of legal venom.

Perhaps someone should set up a petition to that inheriting entity, a la the 
Ancient Unix petition, asking them on behalf of all interested parties, that 
they release them under a suitable license - perhaps BSD, it's nice and short 
and easy to remember - some people out there have very short attention spans 
and we don't want them confused.

Any comments?

Wesley Parish

On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:23, Tim Newsham wrote:
> What has become of the various research unix releases after
> 7th edition?  Have any of these ever been released publically?
> Are any of them being archived for historical reasons?  Are any
> of the versions publically available now?
>
> Tim N.
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

-- 
Wesley Parish
* * *
Clinersterton beademung - in all of love.  RIP James Blish
* * *
Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?"
You ask, "What is the most important thing?"
Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata."
I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people."

[TUHS] TCP/IP implementations

[Jose R. Valverde]

On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 03:40:41PM +0000, Michael Sokolov wrote:
> "=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jos=E9?= R. Valverde" <jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es> wrote:
> Ultrix-32 sources can be found on ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG in
> /pub/UNIX/thirdparty/Ultrix-32/sources available via anonymous FTP.

Certainly.

But I understood the orioginal post to refer to other Ultrix sources.
Ultrix had a long -and interesting- life after 32V. It was ported to
MIPS machines, and was -AFAIK- the first ever port of UNIX to a 64 bit
machine as the initial Unix for DEC alpha machines. It would later
be abandoned for Mach-based OSF-1 before going to market.

Those Ultrix sources would be a pity to lose. And those were the one
I was referring to in my e-mail (and what I understood the original
poster to mean).

Indeed, OSF/1 aka Tru64 sources and history would also be worthwhile to
preserve for the historical record (as those from IBM, Sun, HP, etc...)
Each had at some point novel and highly advanced technologies for their
time that would be nice to preserve.

				j

-- 
Jose R. Valverde
EMBnet/CNB

[TUHS] TCP/IP implementations

[Jochen Kunz]

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On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:26:21 +0000
"Jose R. Valverde" <jr at cnb.uam.es> wrote:

> But I understood the orioginal post to refer to other Ultrix sources.
> Ultrix had a long -and interesting- life after 32V. It was ported to
> MIPS machines, and was -AFAIK- the first ever port of UNIX to a 64 bit
> machine as the initial Unix for DEC alpha machines.
I doubt that Ultrix was ported to Alpha. DEC was working on OSF/1 before
Alpha machines where available. Initial OSF/1 Versions where MIPS for
DECstations.
-- 


tschüß,
       Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

[TUHS] TCP/IP implementations

[Jose R. Valverde]

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Sorry, but I couldn't resist. this has been bothering me for days since my
previous post.

I knew it happened but was writing from memory. I looked to my ancient mails,
looked into the net.. (this started to look like the hunting of the snark) and
then remembered it had been discussed in Usenet. Here is the reference now for
the record. I know the message is long, but I think it is worth reading.

On Wed Oct 6 17:19:53 EST 2004 Jochen Kunz jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:
>On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:26:21 +0000
>"Jose R. Valverde" <jr at cnb.uam.es> wrote:
>
>> But I understood the orioginal post to refer to other Ultrix sources.
>> Ultrix had a long -and interesting- life after 32V. It was ported to
>> MIPS machines, and was -AFAIK- the first ever port of UNIX to a 64 bit
>> machine as the initial Unix for DEC alpha machines.
>I doubt that Ultrix was ported to Alpha. DEC was working on OSF/1 before
>Alpha machines where available. Initial OSF/1 Versions where MIPS for
>DECstations.

There certainly was an Ultrix for Alphas. As I remembered, the first Unix
port for alphas was that of Ultrix, and it was the first OS to run on Alpha
but it was an internal, research development in DEC that never saw the light
of sun. The full thread discussing it can still be found on deja-news: 
search for ultrix and alpha butnot FAQ.

The URL:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=3daega%24fld%40lead.zk3.dec.com&rnum=7&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dultrix%2Balpha%2B-FAQ%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26selm%3D3daega%2524fld%2540lead.zk3.dec.com%26rnum%3D7

the significant text:

> From: Allan E Johannesen (aej at mikasa.WPI.EDU)
> Subject: Re: Ultrix for Alpha (?)
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
> Date: 1994-12-21 03:28:52 PST
> 
> I heard, from what appeared at the time to be a reliable source, that ULTRIX
> was the first OS to actually run on an Alpha.  That aside, the only OS
> controversy was whether OSF/1 would be ported to MIPS.  That project was
> on-and-off depending on the most recent rumor.  The resolution was a firm _NO_.
> 
> I recall no hint that ULTRIX would ever be ported to Alpha.  It seems clear
> enough that ULTRIX is in a maintenance-only mode on the older platforms.
 
> From: kaiser at acm.org (kaiser at acm.org)
> Subject: Re: Ultrix for Alpha (?)
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
> Date: 1994-12-21 00:15:56 PST
> 
> In article <AEJ.94Dec20120833 at mikasa.WPI.EDU>, aej at mikasa.WPI.EDU (Allan E
> Johannesen) writes:
> 
> >I heard, from what appeared at the time to be a reliable source, that ULTRIX
> >was the first OS to actually run on an Alpha.
> 
> True.  ULTRIX was ported to Alpha as a research project, and it was the
> first OS to run on Alpha.  It's not widely known, but not a secret, that
> the original big Alpha AD units (they weren't even prototypes, since they
> were never intended for sale but only for software development) required
> MIPS ULTRIX systems as consoles and boot devices, even when they ran VMS.
> None of this, of course, has anything to do with the merits or popularity
> of the OSes themselves.
> 
> ___Pete
> 
> kaiser at acm.org
> +33 92.95.62.97, FAX +33 92.95.50.50

> From: Farrell Woods (ftw at zk3.dec.com)
> Subject: Re: Ultrix for Alpha (?)
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
> Date: 1994-12-22 05:39:30 PST
> 
> In article <3d8kqb$dfb at mrnews.mro.dec.com>, kaiser at acm.org writes:
> |> True.  ULTRIX was ported to Alpha as a research project...
> 
> This is correct.  The machines were called ADU's, or Alpha Development Units.
> They were washing-machine sized boxes with DECstation 5000's sitting atop
> as a host/IO processor and front-end.  The ADU was in a way a Turbochannel
> option on the DECstation; that's how they talked.
> 
> Ultrix ran on the ADU's initially, then OSF.  Development of OSF for Alpha
> proceeded on the ADU for quite a while as the first examples of what would be
> known as the DEC 3000 model 500 started trickling in (this was known internally
> as the Flamingo.)  Support for the ADU was dropped before the first release
> of DEC OSF/1 for Alpha shipped, but some intrepid souls within the company
> managed to keep them going for themselves through the first two releases
> of the OS.
> 
> I don't recall talk of officially supporting Ultrix on the Alpha.  It only
> ever ran on the ADU and was never carried to the production machines.
> Alpha/Ultrix was an AD effort.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Farrell T. Woods, Jr.    Voice:  (603) 881-2948
> Digital Equipment Corporation   Domain: ftw at zk3.dec.com
> 110 Spit Brook Rd.    uucp:  ...!decvax!ftw
> Nashua, NH 03061
> 
>   Rule of Acqusition Number 112: Never have sex with the boss' sister.
> 

				j
--
	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!

			    José R. Valverde

	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural
-- 
	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!

			    José R. Valverde

	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

[TUHS] TCP/IP implementations

[Michael Sokolov]

Jose R. Valverde <jr at cnb.uam.es> wrote:

> But I understood the orioginal post to refer to other Ultrix sources.
> Ultrix had a long -and interesting- life after 32V. It was ported to
> MIPS machines,

By Ultrix-32 I didn't mean AT&T 32V, I just say Ultrix-32 to distinguish
it from Ultrix-11.  Ultrix-32 was DEC's product for VAX and MIPS.  On my
FTP site I have pirate sources for Ultrix-32 V2.00 and V4.20.  The lalter
runs on all VAX models DEC ever supported Ultrix on and on MIPS.

MS

[TUHS] TCP/IP implementations

[patv]

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It's not a question of it being lost, but rather making sure it doesn't
become lost.  My first order of business is for the product that was the
reason for Manalapan's existence -- VAX System V.

The Manalapan, NJ site, after two mergers, is still today known as UNX
because of it initial charter to port AT&T Unix to VAX.  This dates back
to the old DEC days where all sites had a 3 character identifier.  I guess
someone was a private pilot and modeled it after airport designations. 
Anyway, Manalapan was also frequently used as a hub in a lot of uucp
activity -- just look for UNXA in the path.

Enough history for today.

Pat



> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 06:09:19 -0400
> Pat Villani <patv at monmouth.com> wrote:
> > Don't know about a TCP/IP stack, but I'm sorry to tell you that Ultrix
> > is still proprietary and now owned by hp.
> >
> > The source is in danger of being lost unless I'm successful over the
> > next six months.  The Manalapan, NJ site where a great deal of Ultrix
> > work was done will be closing soon and employees moved to other
location> 
> > and otherwise.  I volunteered to take the old tape archives and
transfer> 
> > the source code to CD-ROM for preservation.  I don't know if there are
> > any other copies in Nashua, NH, where the remainder of the work was done.
> >
> > Pat
> >
> While working at the Biomedical Research Institute (Madrid, Spain) I got a
> quote from DEC for access to Ultrix source code. As I remember it, it wasn't
> that expensive (~1000$ for an academic license) and I mused bout
acquiring> 
> it for some time. My na�vete at the time prevented me from ordering it
(t> hat
> and the availability of BSD sources).
>
> But I'd feel pretty sure that at that price many source licenses must have
> been sold. Maybe there are still copies lying around and you can find
> someone to send you a copy back.
>
> Sure, it would be nicer to maintain the whole development log and versions.
>
>                     j
> --
>     These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!
>
>                 Jos� R. Valverde
>
>     De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural
>




---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Monmouth Internet MI-Webmail.
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[TUHS] TCP/IP implementations

[Sergey Lapin]

Hi, all!!!
Are there any old TCP/IP implementations like these to work on V7 or V6,
freely accessible in source form?
It could be very nice thing to learn from.

And possibly offtopic question - if I want ULTRIX (RISC) source license,
where should I get it from? (mostly interested in newest source) :)

All the best,
S.

[TUHS] TCP/IP implementations

[Pat Villani]

Don't know about a TCP/IP stack, but I'm sorry to tell you that Ultrix 
is still proprietary and now owned by hp.

The source is in danger of being lost unless I'm successful over the 
next six months.  The Manalapan, NJ site where a great deal of Ultrix 
work was done will be closing soon and employees moved to other location 
and otherwise.  I volunteered to take the old tape archives and transfer 
the source code to CD-ROM for preservation.  I don't know if there are 
any other copies in Nashua, NH, where the remainder of the work was done.

Pat


Sergey Lapin wrote:

>Hi, all!!!
>Are there any old TCP/IP implementations like these to work on V7 or V6,
>freely accessible in source form?
>It could be very nice thing to learn from.
>
>And possibly offtopic question - if I want ULTRIX (RISC) source license,
>where should I get it from? (mostly interested in newest source) :)
>
>All the best,
>S.
>
>_______________________________________________
>TUHS mailing list
>TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
>http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
>
>  
>

[TUHS] TCP/IP implementations

[José R. Valverde]

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On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 06:09:19 -0400
Pat Villani <patv at monmouth.com> wrote:
> Don't know about a TCP/IP stack, but I'm sorry to tell you that Ultrix 
> is still proprietary and now owned by hp.
> 
> The source is in danger of being lost unless I'm successful over the 
> next six months.  The Manalapan, NJ site where a great deal of Ultrix 
> work was done will be closing soon and employees moved to other location 
> and otherwise.  I volunteered to take the old tape archives and transfer 
> the source code to CD-ROM for preservation.  I don't know if there are 
> any other copies in Nashua, NH, where the remainder of the work was done.
> 
> Pat
> 
While working at the Biomedical Research Institute (Madrid, Spain) I got a
quote from DEC for access to Ultrix source code. As I remember it, it wasn't
that expensive (~1000$ for an academic license) and I mused bout acquiring 
it for some time. My naïvete at the time prevented me from ordering it (that
and the availability of BSD sources).

But I'd feel pretty sure that at that price many source licenses must have
been sold. Maybe there are still copies lying around and you can find 
someone to send you a copy back.

Sure, it would be nicer to maintain the whole development log and versions.

				    j
-- 
	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!

			    José R. Valverde

	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural
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