[TUHS] Questions about the history of cut(1)

[TUHS] Questions about the history of cut(1)

[Doug McIlroy]

I believe cut/paste originated in PWB Unix, but I can't recall who
wrote it.

Doug

[TUHS] Questions about the history of cut(1)

[John Cowan]

Doug McIlroy scripsit:

> I believe cut/paste originated in PWB Unix, but I can't recall who
> wrote it.

Huh.  I didn't know paste(1) existed; I've always used pr -m to laminate
files (with appropriate options to shut off the unwanted formatting).

-- 
John Cowan          http://www.ccil.org/~cowan        cowan at ccil.org
There is / One art / No more / No less
To do / All things / With art- / -Lessness          --Piet Hein

[TUHS] Questions about the history of cut(1)

[markus schnalke]

[2015-05-18 06:36] Doug McIlroy <doug at cs.dartmouth.edu>
>
> I believe cut/paste originated in PWB Unix, but I can't recall who
> wrote it.

Thanks for your reply.

I checked the PWB code of bostic and spencer ...
	http://minnie.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/usdl/
	http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=PWB1
... but couldn't find any signs of cut or paste there.


meillo

[TUHS] Questions about the history of cut(1)

[Andy Kosela]

On Monday, May 18, 2015, markus schnalke <meillo at marmaro.de> wrote:

> [2015-05-18 06:36] Doug McIlroy <doug at cs.dartmouth.edu <javascript:;>>
> >
> > I believe cut/paste originated in PWB Unix, but I can't recall who
> > wrote it.
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> I checked the PWB code of bostic and spencer ...
>         http://minnie.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/usdl/
>         http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=PWB1
> ... but couldn't find any signs of cut or paste there.
>

FreeBSD man page states it originated in System III.  If you browse the
code of it, it is certainly there, but System III was a mix of various
versions, including PWB/UNIX.

Anyway, a very interesting research subject.  Keep going!

--Andy
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[TUHS] Questions about the history of cut(1)

[Clem Cole]

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On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 11:01 AM, Andy Kosela <akosela at andykosela.com>
wrote:

> System III was a mix of various versions, including PWB/UNIX.
>

​System III was originally called PWB 3.0 and early distributions from AT&T
has the covers as PWB 3.0 on it.

The name "System III" was a rebranding.   At the time, AT&T wanted to make
a run at the enterprise computer business and marketing types did not think
the PWB moniker was a good idea when trying to sell it.

You are correct, the PWB 3.0 took a number things from a lot of different
places, including the Columbus guys [who gave use the shmat() and ip stuff,
as well a Napierville, Whippany etc.], much less what came from Research.

Research Seventh Edition kernel went out to the operating companies in PWB
2.0, so by the time 3.0 was done, the v7's kernel basis was already
established.  It was not generally available outside the Bell System, but
some people did have it - probably from the OYOC types who brought it with
them for some feature or another.

Clem
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[TUHS] Questions about the history of cut(1)

[Clem Cole]

I thought it came from USG, as it was definitely in PWB 3.0 [which was
"rebranded" as System III post break-up], I think it may have been in PWB
2.0.   Mashey might remember.   I'll check any doc I have at home tonight,
but do not think I still have PWB 2.0 bits anywhere.  I think Warren has a
TAR image from Henry of the PWB 1.0 which to check.

Clem

On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 6:36 AM, Doug McIlroy <doug at cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

> I believe cut/paste originated in PWB Unix, but I can't recall who
> wrote it.
>
> Doug
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
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[TUHS] Questions about the history of cut(1)

[markus schnalke]

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Thanks a lot for all your responses. They helped and encouraged me.

[2015-05-18 11:06] Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com>
>
> I thought it came from USG, as it was definitely in PWB 3.0 [which was
> "rebranded" as System III post break-up], I think it may have been in PWB 2.0.
>   Mashey might remember.   I'll check any doc I have at home tonight, but do
> not think I still have PWB 2.0 bits anywhere.  I think Warren has a TAR image
> from Henry of the PWB 1.0 which to check.


This is what I found out so far:

1) cut was part of System III. The sources are online:
http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=SysIII/usr/src/cmd/cut.c
In consequence, cut was part of PWB 3.0, as well, because that's
the same.

2) These sources of (presumely) PWB 1.0 show no signs of cut:
http://minnie.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/usdl/

3) I couldn't find any sources or useful documentation about PWB 2.0.

4) I've discovered that cut was present in CB Unix 2.1 (which I
haven't even known it existed. ;-) ). I found scanned man pages,
which date November 1979:
ftp://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/pub/unix/UnixArchive/PDP-11/Distributions/other/CB_Unix/cbunix_man1_02.pdf
(cut is on PDF page 57)
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find sources or, actually, much
useful information at all on CB Unix.


Possibly, you can help me a further step from this point on.

I think, interesting would be sources or docs about PWB 2.0 and
CB Unix and the relation i.e. code transfer between PWB and CB Unix.


meillo

[TUHS] Questions about the history of cut(1)

[Mary Ann Horton]

CB UNIX paralleled USG/PWB versions, so that's a strong hint that PWB 2 
had cut/paste.  My recollection is also that it did, but I don't have 
any doc or source to confirm that.

On 05/31/2015 11:06 AM, markus schnalke wrote:
> Thanks a lot for all your responses. They helped and encouraged me.
>
> [2015-05-18 11:06] Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com>
>> I thought it came from USG, as it was definitely in PWB 3.0 [which was
>> "rebranded" as System III post break-up], I think it may have been in PWB 2.0.
>>    Mashey might remember.   I'll check any doc I have at home tonight, but do
>> not think I still have PWB 2.0 bits anywhere.  I think Warren has a TAR image
>> from Henry of the PWB 1.0 which to check.
>
> This is what I found out so far:
>
> 1) cut was part of System III. The sources are online:
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=SysIII/usr/src/cmd/cut.c
> In consequence, cut was part of PWB 3.0, as well, because that's
> the same.
>
> 2) These sources of (presumely) PWB 1.0 show no signs of cut:
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/usdl/
>
> 3) I couldn't find any sources or useful documentation about PWB 2.0.
>
> 4) I've discovered that cut was present in CB Unix 2.1 (which I
> haven't even known it existed. ;-) ). I found scanned man pages,
> which date November 1979:
> ftp://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/pub/unix/UnixArchive/PDP-11/Distributions/other/CB_Unix/cbunix_man1_02.pdf
> (cut is on PDF page 57)
> Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find sources or, actually, much
> useful information at all on CB Unix.
>
>
> Possibly, you can help me a further step from this point on.
>
> I think, interesting would be sources or docs about PWB 2.0 and
> CB Unix and the relation i.e. code transfer between PWB and CB Unix.
>
>
> meillo
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

[TUHS] Questions about the history of cut(1)

[Clem Cole]

+1

Similarly, I can not find any PWB 2.0 info, but I agree that if CB UNIX had
it, that is a strong indication that it was part of PWB 2.0.

On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 6:18 PM, Mary Ann Horton <mah at mhorton.net> wrote:

> CB UNIX paralleled USG/PWB versions, so that's a strong hint that PWB 2
> had cut/paste.  My recollection is also that it did, but I don't have any
> doc or source to confirm that.
>
>
> On 05/31/2015 11:06 AM, markus schnalke wrote:
>
>> Thanks a lot for all your responses. They helped and encouraged me.
>>
>> [2015-05-18 11:06] Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com>
>>
>>> I thought it came from USG, as it was definitely in PWB 3.0 [which was
>>> "rebranded" as System III post break-up], I think it may have been in
>>> PWB 2.0.
>>>    Mashey might remember.   I'll check any doc I have at home tonight,
>>> but do
>>> not think I still have PWB 2.0 bits anywhere.  I think Warren has a TAR
>>> image
>>> from Henry of the PWB 1.0 which to check.
>>>
>>
>> This is what I found out so far:
>>
>> 1) cut was part of System III. The sources are online:
>> http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=SysIII/usr/src/cmd/cut.c
>> In consequence, cut was part of PWB 3.0, as well, because that's
>> the same.
>>
>> 2) These sources of (presumely) PWB 1.0 show no signs of cut:
>> http://minnie.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/usdl/
>>
>> 3) I couldn't find any sources or useful documentation about PWB 2.0.
>>
>> 4) I've discovered that cut was present in CB Unix 2.1 (which I
>> haven't even known it existed. ;-) ). I found scanned man pages,
>> which date November 1979:
>>
>> ftp://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/pub/unix/UnixArchive/PDP-11/Distributions/other/CB_Unix/cbunix_man1_02.pdf
>> (cut is on PDF page 57)
>> Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find sources or, actually, much
>> useful information at all on CB Unix.
>>
>>
>> Possibly, you can help me a further step from this point on.
>>
>> I think, interesting would be sources or docs about PWB 2.0 and
>> CB Unix and the relation i.e. code transfer between PWB and CB Unix.
>>
>>
>> meillo
>> _______________________________________________
>> TUHS mailing list
>> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
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[TUHS] Questions about the history of cut(1)

[markus schnalke]

[2015-06-01 10:14] Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com>
>
> +1
> 
> Similarly, I can not find any PWB 2.0 info, but I agree that if CB UNIX had
> it, that is a strong indication that it was part of PWB 2.0.
> 
> On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 6:18 PM, Mary Ann Horton <mah at mhorton.net> wrote:
> 
>> CB UNIX paralleled USG/PWB versions, so that's a strong hint that PWB 2
>> had cut/paste.  My recollection is also that it did, but I don't have any
>> doc or source to confirm that.

Thanks to both of you.


meillo

[TUHS] Questions about the history of cut(1)

[random832]

On Mon, May 18, 2015, at 06:36, Doug McIlroy wrote:
> I believe cut/paste originated in PWB Unix, but I can't recall who
> wrote it.

Who or what is the GWRL referenced in the comments?

/* cut : cut and paste columns of a table (projection of a relation) 
(GWRL) */
/* paste: concatenate corresponding lines of each file in parallel.
Release 1.4 (GWRL) */

[TUHS] Questions about the history of cut(1)

[markus schnalke]

Hoi.

What started as the plan to write a short portrait of cut(1)
for a free german online magazine (translation to English is
not done yet) became a closer look at the history of cut(1).
Well, the topic got me hooked at some point. The text is still
only about eight pages long and far from scientific quality,
but it features some facts not found in Wikipedia. ;-)

So, let me come to my questions.

1) The oldest version of cut that I found is this one in System III.
http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=SysIII/usr/src/cmd
(The file date says 1980-04-11.) As the sccsid reads version 1.5,
there must be older code. How can I find it? Is there a story of
how cut appeared for the first time?

2) As far as I found out, POSIX.2-1992 introduced the byte mode
(-b) and added multi-byte support for the character mode. Is
this correct?

3) Old BSD sources reference POSIX Draft 9 (which, it seems,
they implement) but lack multi-byte support and the byte mode.
They also support decreasing lists, which, they state, POSIX
Draft 9 would not.
http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=4.3BSD-Reno/src/usr.bin/cut/cut.c
The only POSIX.2 Draft I have access to is Draft 11.2.
http://www.nic.funet.fi/pub/doc/posix/p1003.2/d11.2/all.ps
It does specify the multi-byte stuff and does also allow
decreasing lists. Hence, it appears that these things were
added somewhen between Draft 9 and Draft 11.2. Does anyone
know details?

It would be great, if you can give me some pointers for
further research or even share some cut-stories from the
good old days. :-)


meillo


P.S.
In case you understand German, feel free to have a look at the
current version of the text: http://hg.marmaro.de/docs/cut/file/
I welcome your comments, but bear with me, the text issn't meant
to become a doctoral thesis; I just want to write it for fun and
to learn about the historical background.