* [TUHS] Mention TUHS in Linux Magazine (US)?
@ 2005-04-29 17:59 Carl Lowenstein
2005-04-29 19:10 ` Jerry Peek
2005-04-30 7:31 ` Wesley Parish
0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Carl Lowenstein @ 2005-04-29 17:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
> From: Jerry Peek <jpeek at jpeek.com>
> To: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org
> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 09:50:21 -0700
> Subject: [TUHS] Mention TUHS in Linux Magazine (US)?
> Hi everyone. I'm a short-time UNIX user (I started in 1981 :)
> and also a columnist for Linux Magazine (in the US: not the UK
> flavour). I just came across TUHS while I was searching for a
> V7 cp(1) manpage. (I found it, BTW, via Warren Toomey's page
> http://mirror.cc.vt.edu/pub/projects/Ancient_Unix/Documentation/PUPS/manpages.html.)
>
> I'm writing a series of columns on "What's GNU in Old Utilities".
> It describes new features of GNU utilities like cat(1) and
> contrasts them to "how we used to do it." I'd like to mention
> TUHS in the third column, which should be out in August. It
> seems that TUHS is alive and well. If any of you have comments
> or complaints about that idea, though, would you please let me
> know before May 1 -- which is when the column is due? Thanks.
More power to you. Just keep a sharp eye out for things that
are touted as "new improved GNU features" that have been around
since the days of 6th Edition or 7th Edition Unix.
carl
--
carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego
clowenst at ucsd.edu
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Mention TUHS in Linux Magazine (US)? 2005-04-29 17:59 [TUHS] Mention TUHS in Linux Magazine (US)? Carl Lowenstein @ 2005-04-29 19:10 ` Jerry Peek 2005-04-30 1:19 ` Kurt Wall 2005-04-30 7:31 ` Wesley Parish 1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Jerry Peek @ 2005-04-29 19:10 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:59:21 -0700, Carl Lowenstein wrote: > More power to you. Just keep a sharp eye out for things that > are touted as "new improved GNU features" that have been around > since the days of 6th Edition or 7th Edition Unix. Thanks for that wise advice, Carl. I actually started on a VAX running 4.1 BSD, so I'm not always clear about what's real. ;-) I've been checking manpages online and trying to keep it straight. While I'm at it, I wanted to say thanks to Tim Newsham for reminding me of the paper "Program design in the UNIX environment" (at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/doc/84/kp.ps.gz) and to Dennis for his home page (http://plan9.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/index.html -- which I found, BTW, on Tim's "Links" page). Both of them have lots of fascinating and useful info that took me way back from my GUI GNU-ey ;-) environment. I've sat here for a couple of hours, reading and thinking. I'll work this into my August column -- set off in a sidebar or some way to call attention to it. Today's Linux users need to read and understand this stuff. It was a great reminder for me. Thanks again, everyone. Jerry ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Mention TUHS in Linux Magazine (US)? 2005-04-29 19:10 ` Jerry Peek @ 2005-04-30 1:19 ` Kurt Wall 0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Kurt Wall @ 2005-04-30 1:19 UTC (permalink / raw) On Friday 29 April 2005 15:10, Jerry Peek enlightened us thusly: > On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:59:21 -0700, Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > More power to you. Just keep a sharp eye out for things that > > are touted as "new improved GNU features" that have been around > > since the days of 6th Edition or 7th Edition Unix. > > Thanks for that wise advice, Carl. I actually started on a VAX > running 4.1 BSD, so I'm not always clear about what's real. ;-) > I've been checking manpages online and trying to keep it straight. > > While I'm at it, I wanted to say thanks to Tim Newsham for > reminding me of the paper "Program design in the UNIX environment" > (at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/doc/84/kp.ps.gz) and to Dennis > for his home page (http://plan9.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/index.html -- > which I found, BTW, on Tim's "Links" page). Both of them have lots > of fascinating and useful info that took me way back from my GUI > GNU-ey ;-) environment. I've sat here for a couple of hours, > reading and thinking. I'll work this into my August column -- > set off in a sidebar or some way to call attention to it. > Today's Linux users need to read and understand this stuff. > It was a great reminder for me. Thanks again, everyone. I quite agree. I started with some SVR3 UNIX but wound up using Linux because it was free and worked with the hardware I had at the time. It's a constant source of pleasure to work with the old UNIX hands around my shop and learn what my roots are. I even have some books around here with Jerry Peek's name on them... :-) Kurt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Mention TUHS in Linux Magazine (US)? 2005-04-29 17:59 [TUHS] Mention TUHS in Linux Magazine (US)? Carl Lowenstein 2005-04-29 19:10 ` Jerry Peek @ 2005-04-30 7:31 ` Wesley Parish 2005-04-30 11:35 ` Tim Shoppa 2005-04-30 18:28 ` Jerry Peek 1 sibling, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Wesley Parish @ 2005-04-30 7:31 UTC (permalink / raw) And, FWIW, in one of the few GNUs Bulletins I actually have received, courtesy of the FSF, RMS (I think) was advising that with the dropping price in memory, GNU hackers could do without worrying about memory size, when it came to replicating Unix utilities.. So perhaps that is a point to be taken into consideration? I know in some respects FreeBSD - the only *BSD I've ever gotten around to installing - comes across as smaller and faster than Linux. I hate to think of SysVRx - everything I have read about that series of OSes said it was bloated, and the SCO SysVR3 I learnt Unix on felt somewhat clumsier than Linux when I first got it. But that's the result of Bash being nicer than sh to a 4DOS user. Hope this is useful. Wesley Parish On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 05:59, Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > From: Jerry Peek <jpeek at jpeek.com> > > To: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org > > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 09:50:21 -0700 > > Subject: [TUHS] Mention TUHS in Linux Magazine (US)? > > Hi everyone. I'm a short-time UNIX user (I started in 1981 :) > > and also a columnist for Linux Magazine (in the US: not the UK > > flavour). I just came across TUHS while I was searching for a > > V7 cp(1) manpage. (I found it, BTW, via Warren Toomey's page > > http://mirror.cc.vt.edu/pub/projects/Ancient_Unix/Documentation/PUPS/manp > >ages.html.) > > > > I'm writing a series of columns on "What's GNU in Old Utilities". > > It describes new features of GNU utilities like cat(1) and > > contrasts them to "how we used to do it." I'd like to mention > > TUHS in the third column, which should be out in August. It > > seems that TUHS is alive and well. If any of you have comments > > or complaints about that idea, though, would you please let me > > know before May 1 -- which is when the column is due? Thanks. > > More power to you. Just keep a sharp eye out for things that > are touted as "new improved GNU features" that have been around > since the days of 6th Edition or 7th Edition Unix. > > carl -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Mention TUHS in Linux Magazine (US)? 2005-04-30 7:31 ` Wesley Parish @ 2005-04-30 11:35 ` Tim Shoppa 2005-04-30 18:28 ` Jerry Peek 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Tim Shoppa @ 2005-04-30 11:35 UTC (permalink / raw) Wes Parish wrote: > was advising that with the dropping price in memory, GNU hackers could > do without worrying about memory size, when it came to replicating > Unix utilities.. I sometimes make fun of the strings of #ifdefs and huge size in source of the GNU utilities, but I've never made (to take a utility that is simple and takes few if any options) GNU pwd dump core. I have succesfully made many commercial Unix implementations of "pwd" dump core! Tim. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Mention TUHS in Linux Magazine (US)? 2005-04-30 7:31 ` Wesley Parish 2005-04-30 11:35 ` Tim Shoppa @ 2005-04-30 18:28 ` Jerry Peek 2005-05-01 8:21 ` Wesley Parish 1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Jerry Peek @ 2005-04-30 18:28 UTC (permalink / raw) On 30 April 2005 at 19:31, Wesley Parish <wes.parish at paradise.net.nz> wrote: > And, FWIW, in one of the few GNUs Bulletins I actually have received, courtesy > of the FSF, RMS (I think) was advising that with the dropping price in > memory, GNU hackers could do without worrying about memory size, when it came > to replicating Unix utilities.. That's been on my mind as I thought back to my days on VAXen with 100 users logged on and a load average of 30. Back then, efficient programming was so very important. Now, when the GNU "cp" has more than 20 options -- and some of those with several possible arguments -- one side of me thinks how bloated the GNU utilities seem. But, on the other hand, one of the things I'm doing in this series of columns is to compare "how we used to do it" vs. the usefulness of some of the new features. For instance, back then we could copy a directory tree recursively with "tar" or "find", carefully handling devices and etc. along the way. Now we can do the same thing by typing a cp command with a couple of options. With powerful machines on our desks, which sort of "efficiency" do we want these days? I'm not trying to answer that question! I'm trying to show things in a balanced way and leave it to the reader to decide. This has been debated and discussed so much over the years that I can't shed any new light on it. I just want readers to keep it in mind, think about where we've been and where we are. Jerry ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Mention TUHS in Linux Magazine (US)? 2005-04-30 18:28 ` Jerry Peek @ 2005-05-01 8:21 ` Wesley Parish 2005-05-09 8:41 ` [TUHS] Sad news from IBM J. R. Valverde 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Wesley Parish @ 2005-05-01 8:21 UTC (permalink / raw) Again, FWIW, I've successfully - with the expenditure of a good long period of time - transferred an 80GB file system from one hard drive to another using the GNU cp - I didn't read enough of the man page though, and missed out on the -p switch to preserve my ownership on the files - I had to return the entire 80 GB to my ownership manually ... ;) God, I felt like the Prize Dork! But it did the massive job without blinking an eyelid, over the three or so hours it took to do it. It's good stuff. Just massive itself. Wesley Parish On Sun, 01 May 2005 06:28, Jerry Peek wrote: > On 30 April 2005 at 19:31, Wesley Parish <wes.parish at paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > And, FWIW, in one of the few GNUs Bulletins I actually have received, > > courtesy of the FSF, RMS (I think) was advising that with the dropping > > price in memory, GNU hackers could do without worrying about memory size, > > when it came to replicating Unix utilities.. > > That's been on my mind as I thought back to my days on VAXen > with 100 users logged on and a load average of 30. Back then, > efficient programming was so very important. Now, when the GNU > "cp" has more than 20 options -- and some of those with several > possible arguments -- one side of me thinks how bloated the GNU > utilities seem. But, on the other hand, one of the things I'm > doing in this series of columns is to compare "how we used to > do it" vs. the usefulness of some of the new features. For > instance, back then we could copy a directory tree recursively > with "tar" or "find", carefully handling devices and etc. along > the way. Now we can do the same thing by typing a cp command > with a couple of options. With powerful machines on our desks, > which sort of "efficiency" do we want these days? > > I'm not trying to answer that question! I'm trying to show > things in a balanced way and leave it to the reader to decide. > This has been debated and discussed so much over the years > that I can't shed any new light on it. I just want readers to > keep it in mind, think about where we've been and where we are. > > Jerry > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Sad news from IBM... 2005-05-01 8:21 ` Wesley Parish @ 2005-05-09 8:41 ` J. R. Valverde 0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: J. R. Valverde @ 2005-05-09 8:41 UTC (permalink / raw) I was reading Groklaw yesterday night when I came across this. It is a very sad thought to know that possibly tons of old/ancient code is being dumped in the trash bin. More so now since the advent of software patents: it may become very difficult to avoid a patent on a re-invention of the wheel if previous knowledge has been dumped. OK, the quote. It is from "the Todd Shaughnessy affidavit [PDF] from IBM that Magistrate Judge Brooke Wells requested they file when they turned over all the code and paperwork to SCO": 28. As I have noted above, IBM does not maintain revision control information for AIX source code pre-dating 1991. To the extent that any code for the AIX operating system (that did not duplicate the code already being produced in CMVC) was found during the search described in Paragraph 26-27 above, it was produced. Paragraphs 29-31 below describe additional search efforts IBM undertook to locate pre-1991 versions of AIX code. No versions of AIX pre-dating 1991 were found. 29. In the 1980s and early 1990s, IBM prepared vital records backups of AIX source code and transferred them to a remote storage location. At some point in the 1990s, the AIX vital records tapes were transferred to Austin, Texas. In late 2000, the tapes were determined to be obsolete, and were not retained. 30. The AIX development organization contacted other IBM employees who were known or believed to have been involved with the development or product release of AIX versions prior to 1991. In addition, IBM managers and attorneys asked current members of the AIX development organization whether they were aware of the location of pre-1991 releases of AIX source code. No one asked was aware of any remaining copies of pre-1991 AIX source code. Perhaps we should do something to raise awareness about the relevance of legacy (not only UNIX) source code. And in any case, it is a pity that all that historical information had been lost forever. I have always complained about this, and consider it the biggest drawback of closed proprietary source code: it is OK that law protects developer interests with the goal of promoting innovation and the public benefit at large. But it is a lose for everybody whenever any such "protected" code is dumped into the bin banning anyone else from further benefitting from or exploiting it, and opening the road for opportunists to claim they "newly invented" it. Sic. Sigh. j -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20050509/167fc183/attachment.sig> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2005-05-09 8:41 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2005-04-29 17:59 [TUHS] Mention TUHS in Linux Magazine (US)? Carl Lowenstein 2005-04-29 19:10 ` Jerry Peek 2005-04-30 1:19 ` Kurt Wall 2005-04-30 7:31 ` Wesley Parish 2005-04-30 11:35 ` Tim Shoppa 2005-04-30 18:28 ` Jerry Peek 2005-05-01 8:21 ` Wesley Parish 2005-05-09 8:41 ` [TUHS] Sad news from IBM J. R. Valverde
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