[TUHS] Legality of porting ancient Unix.

[TUHS] Legality of porting ancient Unix.

[John Chung]

There has been a lot of talk about ancient unix
lately. I do know there are quite a few ports for the
ancient unix but the main question is it legal? It is
possible to port and distribute the port without the
warth of the company that owns the IP?

Regards,
John Chung


		
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[TUHS] Legality of porting ancient Unix.

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

On Monday, 10 October 2005 at 23:17:30 -0700, John Chung wrote:
> There has been a lot of talk about ancient unix
> lately. I do know there are quite a few ports for the
> ancient unix but the main question is it legal? It is
> possible to port and distribute the port without the
> warth of the company that owns the IP?

Yes, it's legal.  Our good friends Caldera (now known as SCO) released
Ancient UNIX under a BSD-style license a few years back.  See
http://www.lemis.com/grog/UNIX/ for further details.

Greg
--
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
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[TUHS] Legality of porting ancient Unix.

[Hellwig.Geisse]

Hi John,

On 11-Oct-2005 John Chung wrote:
> There has been a lot of talk about ancient unix
> lately. I do know there are quite a few ports for the
> ancient unix but the main question is it legal? It is
> possible to port and distribute the port without the
> warth of the company that owns the IP?
> 
> Regards,
> John Chung

it is legal to use, modify, and distribute code
based on UNIX Versions 1..7 and 32V, to the best
of my knowledge; see
http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Caldera-license.pdf

Regards,
Hellwig Geisse
 
----------------------------------
E-Mail: Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de
Date: 11-Oct-2005
Time: 08:32:09

This message was sent by XFMail
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[TUHS] Legality of porting ancient Unix.

[Duncan Anderson]

Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de wrote:

>Hi John,
>
>On 11-Oct-2005 John Chung wrote:
>  
>
>>There has been a lot of talk about ancient unix
>>lately. I do know there are quite a few ports for the
>>ancient unix but the main question is it legal? It is
>>possible to port and distribute the port without the
>>warth of the company that owns the IP?
>>
>>Regards,
>>John Chung
>>    
>>
>
>it is legal to use, modify, and distribute code
>based on UNIX Versions 1..7 and 32V, to the best
>of my knowledge; see
>http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Caldera-license.pdf
>
>Regards,
>Hellwig Geisse
>  
>
Does anyone know where and how one obtains the "ancient unix" sources, 
particularly 32V?

Who does one speak to?

regards
Duncan

		
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[TUHS] Legality of porting ancient Unix.

[Hellwig.Geisse]

Hi Duncan,

On 11-Oct-2005 Duncan Anderson wrote:
> Does anyone know where and how one obtains the "ancient unix" sources, 
> particularly 32V?
> 
> Who does one speak to?
> 
> regards
> Duncan

the best source I know of is
http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/
(not very surprising, I guess).
In subdirectory VAX/Distributions/32V
you find the file 32v_usr.tar.gz.
Unpack this file, then go to the
subdirectory /usr/src/sys.

Regards,
Hellwig
 
----------------------------------
E-Mail: Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de
Date: 11-Oct-2005
Time: 16:04:42

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----------------------------------

[TUHS] Legality of porting ancient Unix.

[Duncan Anderson]

Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de wrote:

>Hi Duncan,
>
>On 11-Oct-2005 Duncan Anderson wrote:
>  
>
>>Does anyone know where and how one obtains the "ancient unix" sources, 
>>particularly 32V?
>>
>>Who does one speak to?
>>
>>regards
>>Duncan
>>    
>>
>
>the best source I know of is
>http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/
>(not very surprising, I guess).
>In subdirectory VAX/Distributions/32V
>you find the file 32v_usr.tar.gz.
>Unpack this file, then go to the
>subdirectory /usr/src/sys.
>
>Regards,
>Hellwig
>  
>
Thanks.

I should have checked. The last time I looked, probably 2 years ago, I 
don't think it was there.

regards
Duncan

		
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[TUHS] Legality of porting ancient Unix.

[Bill Cunningham]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Duncan Anderson" <duncangareth@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [TUHS] Legality of porting ancient Unix.


> Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de wrote:
>
> >Hi Duncan,
> >
> >On 11-Oct-2005 Duncan Anderson wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Does anyone know where and how one obtains the "ancient unix" sources,
> >>particularly 32V?
> >>
> >>Who does one speak to?
> >>
> >>regards
> >>Duncan

    Well Bell owned the old UNIXs. Ask Dennis or Ken. They probably know a
lot about that. Currently the Open Group ownes the UNIX trademark.

Bill

[TUHS] Legality of porting ancient Unix.

[Bill Cunningham]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Duncan Anderson" <duncangareth@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: [TUHS] Legality of porting ancient Unix.


> Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de wrote:
> 
> >Hi John,
> >
> >On 11-Oct-2005 John Chung wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>There has been a lot of talk about ancient unix
> >>lately. I do know there are quite a few ports for the
> >>ancient unix but the main question is it legal? It is
> >>possible to port and distribute the port without the
> >>warth of the company that owns the IP?
> >>
> >>Regards,
> >>John Chung
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >it is legal to use, modify, and distribute code
> >based on UNIX Versions 1..7 and 32V, to the best
> >of my knowledge; see
> >http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Caldera-license.pdf
> >
> >Regards,
> >Hellwig Geisse

    Try The Open Group.

Bill

[TUHS] Legality of porting ancient Unix.

[Jose R Valverde]

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>Does anyone know where and how one obtains the
"ancient unix" sources, 
>particularly 32V?

Pardon?

Obviously, at TUHS!

        www.tuhs.org

particularly

       
ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixArchive/VAX/Distributions/32V

                                j



		
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[TUHS] Legality of porting ancient Unix.

[Duncan Anderson]

Jose R Valverde wrote:

>>Does anyone know where and how one obtains the
>>    
>>
>"ancient unix" sources, 
>  
>
>>particularly 32V?
>>    
>>
>
>Pardon?
>
>Obviously, at TUHS!
>
>        www.tuhs.org
>
>particularly
>
>       
>ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixArchive/VAX/Distributions/32V
>
>  
>
Right! Sorry, I should have checked. I haven't looked at the archives 
for years.

cheers
Duncan

	
	
		
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[TUHS] Legality of porting ancient UNIX

[Jose R Valverde]

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Well, if I remember well, there was this little nifty
legal argument between ATT USL and UCB  BSDI in the
early '90s
that was settled out of court.

One of the factors that helped settle (again if I
remember well)
was that ATT had failed to adequately state its
Copyright 
on UNIX version 32V (may be more, my memory's weak)
that
had been distributed in source code, and hence those 
sources by the then current Copyright law, had fallen
in
the Public Domain.

Then, if my recollection is right (better look at the
documents on the case available on dmr's web page),
you
could do as you well damn please with those sources.

http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/bsdi/bsdisuit.html

From one of the rulings:

"Consequently, I find that Plaintiff has failed to
demonstrate a likelihood that it can successfully
defend its copyright in 32V. Plaintiff's claims of
copyright violations are not a basis for injunctive
relief."

For others, the license otorgued by Caldera when they 
released the source (a BSD look-alike) would allow you
to as well to a large extent.

No need to go to the Open Group. Besides, they own the
trademark (i.e. you could not call the product UNIX
without their permission) but not the code (besides 
their own microkernel developments).

                          j



		
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[TUHS] Legality of porting ancient UNIX

[M. Warner Losh]

In message: <20051011212300.48800.qmail at web26109.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
            Jose R Valverde <txomsy at yahoo.es> writes: One of the
: factors that helped settle (again if I remember well) was that ATT
: had failed to adequately state its Copyright on UNIX version 32V
: (may be more, my memory's weak) that had been distributed in source
: code, and hence those sources by the then current Copyright law, had
: fallen in the Public Domain.

The text you quoted makes it clear that the judge didn't rule that
they had fallen into the public domain.  He'd ruled that he didn't
think that AT&T would be successful at demonstrating a good copyright
title to the code if the matter went to trial.  A subtle difference,
to be sure, but an important one.

However, given that caldera released them with a bsd-like license, I
think the issue is effectively moot at this point...

Warner