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From: Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com>
To: Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org>
Cc: tuhs@tuhs.org
Subject: [TUHS] Re: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2022 20:40:49 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20221231044049.GI5825@mcvoy.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <BD716565-29A2-4959-AA20-339E91DBF789@iitbombay.org>

On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 08:18:06PM -0800, Bakul Shah wrote:
> On Dec 30, 2022, at 7:59 PM, Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
> > 
> > For a login shell, bash is my shell of choice.  It's bloated but I'm
> > typing this on a 5 year old Lenova X1 Carbon with 16GB of memory and
> > 4 cores and it's fine.  It was fine a 133mhz Pentium.
> 
> I switched to zsh in 1993-94 when I found out it had sh compatible
> syntax but also had some useful features from csh (bang commands,
> a{b,c} expansion, aliases etc.). 

This should probably move to COFF (which unlike many other lists I've
been on, has critical mass in the "go over there" list).

You are the 2nd to say zsh is your login shell.  I tried it for a while,
my progression was ${I dunno} to csh, actually used Bourne shell as a
login shell for a while around 1985 or so, all of my login scripts, other
shell scripts, were Bourne shell, I think zsh was next, then sighed in
relief with the original ksh release that went out, and when bash came
around with portability to everywhere, it has been bash.  ksh93 was 
interesting but bash was good enough and clearly open source so...

For script portability, pure Bourne shell has been the win for at least
40 years.  I suspect my kids and their kids will be writing Steve's
syntax, that's a legacy.

For general purpose scripting, I've moved on.  I loved Perl4.  It's a
kitchen sink language but it so clearly had roots in the Bourne shell,
in awk, in sed.  It was trying to be all of those things in one language
and it mostly succeeded.  In the 40mhz SPARC days I actually advocated
for rewriting a ton of /usr/bin on SunOS in perl4 because it was so easy
and far more maintainable than the C versions.

These days perl is weird, the kids seem to like Python, I hate Python
because there is no printf in the base language.  How is that a thing?
But people like it.
-- 
---
Larry McVoy           Retired to fishing          http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat

  reply	other threads:[~2022-12-31  4:40 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-12-30 18:25 [TUHS] " Paul Ruizendaal
2022-12-30 19:51 ` [TUHS] " Chet Ramey
2022-12-30 20:02   ` Larry McVoy
2022-12-30 20:31     ` Adam Thornton
2022-12-30 20:49       ` Chet Ramey
2022-12-30 20:42     ` Sven Mascheck
2022-12-30 20:48       ` Jon Steinhart
2022-12-30 20:51         ` Sven Mascheck
2022-12-31 11:40         ` Ralph Corderoy
2022-12-31 18:49           ` Jon Steinhart
2022-12-31 19:24             ` Clem Cole
2023-01-03 16:32               ` Chet Ramey
2023-01-01  1:51             ` Ron Natalie
2023-01-02 20:03       ` [TUHS] Command Line Editing in the Terminal Driver (Was: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell) Joseph Holsten
2023-01-02 20:33         ` [TUHS] Re: Command Line Editing in the Terminal Driver Lars Brinkhoff
2023-01-11  2:51           ` Chris Hanson
2023-01-11  3:53             ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2023-01-02 21:08         ` [TUHS] Re: Command Line Editing in the Terminal Driver (Was: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell) Rob Pike
2023-01-03 16:53         ` Marshall Conover
2023-01-04  9:18           ` Joseph Holsten
2023-01-11  2:56           ` Chris Hanson
2022-12-30 20:47     ` [TUHS] Re: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell Chet Ramey
2022-12-31  0:08     ` Luther Johnson
2022-12-31  3:59       ` Larry McVoy
2022-12-31  4:12         ` Steve Nickolas
2022-12-31  4:18         ` Bakul Shah
2022-12-31  4:40           ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2022-12-31  4:19         ` Marc Donner
2022-12-31  4:23         ` Dave Horsfall
2022-12-31  4:37           ` Clem Cole
2023-01-02  5:10           ` Mary Ann Horton
2023-01-02 16:25             ` Clem Cole
2023-01-02 16:51               ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-02 17:32                 ` Adam Thornton
2023-01-02 17:43                   ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-02 17:48                     ` Luther Johnson
2023-01-02 18:00                       ` G. Branden Robinson
2023-01-02 18:05                         ` Luther Johnson
2023-01-02 18:12                         ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-02 18:16                           ` Clem Cole
2023-01-02 19:50                             ` Warner Losh
2023-01-02 20:05                               ` Adam Thornton
2023-01-02 19:21                           ` G. Branden Robinson
2023-01-02 19:34                             ` Rich Salz
2023-01-02 20:12                               ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-02 20:24                               ` G. Branden Robinson
2023-01-02 20:41                                 ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-02 21:00                                   ` Dan Cross
2023-01-02 21:06                                     ` Clem Cole
2023-01-02 21:19                                       ` Dan Cross
2023-01-02 22:54                                         ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-01-02 23:58                                           ` Jon Steinhart
2023-01-04  9:00                                             ` Joseph Holsten
2023-01-02 22:43                                       ` Steve Nickolas
2023-01-02 21:08                                     ` Joseph Holsten
2023-01-02 21:15                                       ` Adam Thornton
2023-01-02 17:55                     ` Adam Thornton
2023-01-02 18:11                       ` Clem Cole
2023-01-02 18:36                         ` Dan Cross
2023-01-02 18:48                           ` Dan Cross
2023-01-02 18:18                       ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-04  3:20                     ` John Cowan
2023-01-04  3:31                       ` Dan Cross
2023-01-04  4:16                         ` Bakul Shah
2023-01-04 16:15                           ` Dan Cross
2023-01-04 18:28                             ` ron minnich
2023-01-04 19:33                             ` Chet Ramey
2023-01-04 15:21                       ` Ralph Corderoy
2023-01-04 15:54                         ` Ron Natalie
2023-01-02 17:55                 ` Clem Cole
2023-01-03 17:08                   ` Paul Winalski
2023-01-03 19:19                     ` Warner Losh
2023-01-03 19:56                       ` Luther Johnson
2023-01-03 20:21                       ` Dave Horsfall
2023-01-03 21:47                       ` Clem Cole
2023-01-03 21:51                         ` Clem Cole
2022-12-31  4:41         ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-12-30 20:20   ` Sven Mascheck
2022-12-30 20:49     ` Ron Natalie
2022-12-30 20:52       ` Rob Pike
2022-12-30 20:53       ` Jon Steinhart
2023-01-01 10:44   ` arnold
2023-01-01 11:28     ` arnold
2023-01-03 16:34       ` Chet Ramey
2023-01-03 15:06     ` Chet Ramey
2022-12-30 19:57 ` segaloco via TUHS
2022-12-31 12:55   ` Paul Ruizendaal
2023-01-01  2:55     ` Warner Losh
2023-01-01  4:38       ` Jonathan Gray
2023-01-01  5:25         ` Warner Losh
2023-01-01  5:35           ` Dan Cross
2023-01-01  5:52             ` G. Branden Robinson
2023-01-01  6:35               ` Warner Losh
2023-01-01  6:35               ` Rob Pike
2023-01-01  6:27             ` Warner Losh
2023-01-01 14:50             ` Ron Natalie
2023-01-01  7:11           ` Jonathan Gray
2023-01-01  7:21             ` Warner Losh
2023-01-01 10:25           ` Paul Ruizendaal
2022-12-31 13:26 Douglas McIlroy
2022-12-31 22:19 ` Rob Pike
2023-01-03 15:08 Douglas McIlroy
2023-01-03 15:57 ` Alejandro Colomar
2023-01-03 17:19   ` Jon Steinhart
2023-01-05 13:22     ` Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via TUHS
2023-01-05 21:11       ` Rob Pike
2023-01-03 17:26 ` Dan Cross
2023-01-03 18:07   ` Steve Nickolas
2023-01-03 20:19     ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2023-01-03 23:03       ` ron minnich
2023-01-04  1:37         ` Bakul Shah
2023-01-04  1:58           ` Adam Thornton
2023-01-04 15:19             ` Ralph Corderoy
2023-01-04 18:01               ` Bakul Shah
2023-01-04 20:46                 ` Alejandro Colomar
2023-01-05  0:06                   ` John Cowan
2023-01-05  0:41                     ` Adam Thornton
2023-01-04  5:05         ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-01-03 18:19   ` Niklas Karlsson
2023-01-04  1:29   ` Adam Thornton
2023-01-05  1:51     ` Alejandro Colomar

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