From: Luther Johnson <luther@makerlisp.com>
To: tuhs@tuhs.org
Subject: [TUHS] Re: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2023 11:05:10 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <8d5a12bf-6eb8-bdc6-932a-ee78ff09a6b6@makerlisp.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20230102180020.p6gmiwhrnidfbfsc@illithid>
Point taken, if not entirely understood :)
On 01/02/2023 11:00 AM, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> At 2023-01-02T10:48:32-0700, Luther Johnson wrote:
>> Arnold Schoenberg said of his 12-tone method of music composition, "in
>> constraints I find freedom". The best thing about committing to a
>> simple style and a small set of tools that span the problem space, is
>> the effect it has on my program composition, imho.
> Schoenberg didn't have to compose for orchestras such that the Berlin
> Philharmonic string section tuned half of the octave meantone with the
> other half equal-tempered, whereas the Royal Concertgebouw had the
> brasses play an un-notated ascending major third gliss anytime you
> approached the tonic from a tritone _below_ (only).
>
>> On 01/02/2023 10:43 AM, Larry McVoy wrote:
>>> I was supporting a commercial product in the early 2000's and there
>>> were all sorts of systems then that had old shells. Yes, you could
>>> make everything a 2 level thing where the first level finds the
>>> correct shell, but that's just fuss. Just make things portable,
>>> it's not that hard and it works everywhere.
>>>
>>> When you get to the commercial world, you'd be stunned to see how
>>> long old machines last. If they are solving some problem, and they
>>> aren't broken, nobody replaces them. I'll bet you anything there
>>> are still SCO registers out there, I'll bet there are still PDP-11s
>>> out there.
> The logical consequence of this is to write in Autoconf's recommended
> dialect of shell, which has far too many rules to remember because every
> Unix vendor added exciting new bugs to their "pure" V7 shells.
>
> https://www.gnu.org/software/autoconf/manual/autoconf-2.60/html_node/Portable-Shell.html
>
>>> If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
> They were all broken. Badly. If your scripts worked, you got lucky at
> Russian Roulette. No greater claim to robustness can be made.
>
> POSIX shell conformance still proves challenging for vendors, but is an
> immense improvement over the status quo ante.
>
> I agree with Robert Elz though that standardizing the alias feature was
> nuts. I want to know who brought the crack cocaine to the conference
> table that day.
>
> Regards,
> Branden
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-01-02 18:05 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-12-30 18:25 [TUHS] " Paul Ruizendaal
2022-12-30 19:51 ` [TUHS] " Chet Ramey
2022-12-30 20:02 ` Larry McVoy
2022-12-30 20:31 ` Adam Thornton
2022-12-30 20:49 ` Chet Ramey
2022-12-30 20:42 ` Sven Mascheck
2022-12-30 20:48 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-12-30 20:51 ` Sven Mascheck
2022-12-31 11:40 ` Ralph Corderoy
2022-12-31 18:49 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-12-31 19:24 ` Clem Cole
2023-01-03 16:32 ` Chet Ramey
2023-01-01 1:51 ` Ron Natalie
2023-01-02 20:03 ` [TUHS] Command Line Editing in the Terminal Driver (Was: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell) Joseph Holsten
2023-01-02 20:33 ` [TUHS] Re: Command Line Editing in the Terminal Driver Lars Brinkhoff
2023-01-11 2:51 ` Chris Hanson
2023-01-11 3:53 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2023-01-02 21:08 ` [TUHS] Re: Command Line Editing in the Terminal Driver (Was: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell) Rob Pike
2023-01-03 16:53 ` Marshall Conover
2023-01-04 9:18 ` Joseph Holsten
2023-01-11 2:56 ` Chris Hanson
2022-12-30 20:47 ` [TUHS] Re: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell Chet Ramey
2022-12-31 0:08 ` Luther Johnson
2022-12-31 3:59 ` Larry McVoy
2022-12-31 4:12 ` Steve Nickolas
2022-12-31 4:18 ` Bakul Shah
2022-12-31 4:40 ` Larry McVoy
2022-12-31 4:19 ` Marc Donner
2022-12-31 4:23 ` Dave Horsfall
2022-12-31 4:37 ` Clem Cole
2023-01-02 5:10 ` Mary Ann Horton
2023-01-02 16:25 ` Clem Cole
2023-01-02 16:51 ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-02 17:32 ` Adam Thornton
2023-01-02 17:43 ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-02 17:48 ` Luther Johnson
2023-01-02 18:00 ` G. Branden Robinson
2023-01-02 18:05 ` Luther Johnson [this message]
2023-01-02 18:12 ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-02 18:16 ` Clem Cole
2023-01-02 19:50 ` Warner Losh
2023-01-02 20:05 ` Adam Thornton
2023-01-02 19:21 ` G. Branden Robinson
2023-01-02 19:34 ` Rich Salz
2023-01-02 20:12 ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-02 20:24 ` G. Branden Robinson
2023-01-02 20:41 ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-02 21:00 ` Dan Cross
2023-01-02 21:06 ` Clem Cole
2023-01-02 21:19 ` Dan Cross
2023-01-02 22:54 ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-01-02 23:58 ` Jon Steinhart
2023-01-04 9:00 ` Joseph Holsten
2023-01-02 22:43 ` Steve Nickolas
2023-01-02 21:08 ` Joseph Holsten
2023-01-02 21:15 ` Adam Thornton
2023-01-02 17:55 ` Adam Thornton
2023-01-02 18:11 ` Clem Cole
2023-01-02 18:36 ` Dan Cross
2023-01-02 18:48 ` Dan Cross
2023-01-02 18:18 ` Larry McVoy
2023-01-04 3:20 ` John Cowan
2023-01-04 3:31 ` Dan Cross
2023-01-04 4:16 ` Bakul Shah
2023-01-04 16:15 ` Dan Cross
2023-01-04 18:28 ` ron minnich
2023-01-04 19:33 ` Chet Ramey
2023-01-04 15:21 ` Ralph Corderoy
2023-01-04 15:54 ` Ron Natalie
2023-01-02 17:55 ` Clem Cole
2023-01-03 17:08 ` Paul Winalski
2023-01-03 19:19 ` Warner Losh
2023-01-03 19:56 ` Luther Johnson
2023-01-03 20:21 ` Dave Horsfall
2023-01-03 21:47 ` Clem Cole
2023-01-03 21:51 ` Clem Cole
2022-12-31 4:41 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-12-30 20:20 ` Sven Mascheck
2022-12-30 20:49 ` Ron Natalie
2022-12-30 20:52 ` Rob Pike
2022-12-30 20:53 ` Jon Steinhart
2023-01-01 10:44 ` arnold
2023-01-01 11:28 ` arnold
2023-01-03 16:34 ` Chet Ramey
2023-01-03 15:06 ` Chet Ramey
2022-12-30 19:57 ` segaloco via TUHS
2022-12-31 12:55 ` Paul Ruizendaal
2023-01-01 2:55 ` Warner Losh
2023-01-01 4:38 ` Jonathan Gray
2023-01-01 5:25 ` Warner Losh
2023-01-01 5:35 ` Dan Cross
2023-01-01 5:52 ` G. Branden Robinson
2023-01-01 6:35 ` Warner Losh
2023-01-01 6:35 ` Rob Pike
2023-01-01 6:27 ` Warner Losh
2023-01-01 14:50 ` Ron Natalie
2023-01-01 7:11 ` Jonathan Gray
2023-01-01 7:21 ` Warner Losh
2023-01-01 10:25 ` Paul Ruizendaal
2022-12-31 13:26 Douglas McIlroy
2022-12-31 22:19 ` Rob Pike
2023-01-03 15:08 Douglas McIlroy
2023-01-03 15:57 ` Alejandro Colomar
2023-01-03 17:19 ` Jon Steinhart
2023-01-05 13:22 ` Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via TUHS
2023-01-05 21:11 ` Rob Pike
2023-01-03 17:26 ` Dan Cross
2023-01-03 18:07 ` Steve Nickolas
2023-01-03 20:19 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2023-01-03 23:03 ` ron minnich
2023-01-04 1:37 ` Bakul Shah
2023-01-04 1:58 ` Adam Thornton
2023-01-04 15:19 ` Ralph Corderoy
2023-01-04 18:01 ` Bakul Shah
2023-01-04 20:46 ` Alejandro Colomar
2023-01-05 0:06 ` John Cowan
2023-01-05 0:41 ` Adam Thornton
2023-01-04 5:05 ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-01-03 18:19 ` Niklas Karlsson
2023-01-04 1:29 ` Adam Thornton
2023-01-05 1:51 ` Alejandro Colomar
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