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From: Mychaela Falconia <falcon@freecalypso.org>
To: g.branden.robinson@gmail.com
Cc: tuhs@tuhs.org, aek@bitsavers.org
Subject: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual?
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2024 20:06:36 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20240106040642.D949B37403C1@freecalypso.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20240106032236.llpryldqt7lbondn@illithid>

G. Branden Robinson wrote:

> My belief, based on the evidence I have from these publications
> colophons reporting which phototypesetter was used, is that the \(sq
> special character was not filled in Graphic Systems C/A/T fonts used by
> Bell Labs,

I disagree.  While the "NROFF/TROFF User's Manual" document proves
that \(sq was hollow in all 3 fonts _as of 1976-10-11_ (the original
date of this doc), bwk's document from 1978-08-04 indicates that this
char had to have changed to a filled square by this date.  However,
troff in 1978 was still completely, utterly incapable of driving
anything other than a C/A/T!  Now bwk, the author of this doc, is the
very same fine gentleman who wrote ditroff, the creature that was
finally capable of driving a Linotron 202 or Autologic APS-5 or
whatever - but the timeline does not match up.  BWK's troff tutorial
is dated 1978-08-04, but his work on ditroff (as I understand it)
happened some time around 1980 or 1981.  He may have started ditroff
work in 1979, but definitely not in 1978.

> but _was_ filled in the bold face by the Autologic APS-5.

4.3BSD Usenix books prove otherwise: these must have been troffed on
APS-5, as many notes from that time attest, but they feature hollow
square in bold.  Even eqnchar(7) is "wrong" in 4.3BSD print in that
"blot" is a hollow square, clearly counter to original intent of that
named eqn character.

> I have documented this understanding in the groff_char(7) man page,

Ahh, so you are involved with groff - got it.  I wrote my own version
of troff (based on V7, running under 4.3BSD and directly emitting
DSC-conforming PostScript) in 3 "bursts" of work around 2004, 2010 and
2012, but I never got around to releasing it.  I am now in the process
of cleaning it up for release, hoping to finally have it out in another
week or two.  And I put a _lot_ of work into replicating the original
troff character set...

> Also, my copies of these books are overseas, but I seem to remember that
> the Holt/Reinhart/Winston (HRW) 1983 reprint of the Seventh Edition

Thank you for clarifying what HRW is - so this 1983 version of 7th ed
UPM is *not* the original?

> > What was the physical form of this book?  Was it a "perfect bound"
> > book?
>
> The HRW copies I have are perfect bound.  But I can't remember if they
> were 3-hole punched as well.

Thank you for the clarification!  But if HRW version is not the
original, then what was the original like?

> Where did you discover the identity and date of the 1998 retypeset of
> the V7 Volume 2 manual?

https://plan9.io/7thEdMan/bswv7.html
http://web.cuzuco.com/~cuzuco/v7/

The second page includes a link to this tarball:

http://web.cuzuco.com/~cuzuco/v7/v7add.tar.gz

Dates inside that tarball are 1998-12-13.  There was also a place
where Brian missed the retroffing date - see page 287 of his
v7vol2a.pdf.

> I have wondered about this for years.  In part
> to complain, because while it is a _fairly_ faithful reproduction of the
> original, it is not perfect,

What _I_ don't like about BSW's PDF rendition of V7 manuals is that it
is a sort of "closed source" product: there is no published source
package that retraces every step in the flow from ancient troff sources
to the finished product.

In the same 3 "bursts" of activity (2004, 2010 and 2012) when I worked
on my own version of troff, I also worked toward doing a PostScript
reprint of 4.3BSD Usenix books.  4.3BSD happens to be my personally
preferred version of UNIX, but the same methods I use for 4.3BSD books
can also be applied to V7.  I am hoping that in the next week or two I
will find time to release not only my version of troff, but also the
partial set of 4.3BSD books I got done so far.

Out of the 7 books that comprise 4.3BSD Usenix set, the breakdown is
as follows:

* URM, PRM and USD: I got these done already, only need to write new
colophons to be added to the end of each book.  These are the ones I
am hoping to put out Real Soon Now.

* PS1, PS2 and SMM remain to be worked on, but are part of my more
distant plans.

* The "Master Index" volume, I plan to skip that one - too difficult,
and non-essential in my view.

And yes, I am much more "perfectionist" about replicating troff details
than BSW was for his V7 PDF version.

M~

  parent reply	other threads:[~2024-01-06  4:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 58+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-01-05 22:17 [TUHS] " Mychaela Falconia
2024-01-05 23:19 ` [TUHS] " segaloco via TUHS
2024-01-06  0:12   ` Will Senn
2024-01-06  1:26   ` Mychaela Falconia
2024-01-06  5:08     ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-01-06  6:12       ` Mychaela Falconia
2024-01-06 15:06       ` Will Senn
2024-01-06  1:06 ` Al Kossow
2024-01-06  1:45   ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-01-06 14:42     ` amp1ron
2024-01-06  3:02   ` Mychaela Falconia
2024-01-06  3:22     ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-01-06  4:06       ` Jonathan Gray
2024-01-06  4:06       ` Mychaela Falconia [this message]
2024-01-06 18:33         ` Clem Cole
2024-01-06 21:04           ` Rich Salz
2024-01-06 21:38             ` Clem Cole
2024-01-10 16:32             ` Michael Parson
2024-02-10 19:43               ` Al Kossow
2024-01-07  2:17           ` Mychaela Falconia
2024-01-07  2:25             ` Al Kossow
2024-01-07  2:54             ` Phil Budne
2024-01-07  3:21               ` Mychaela Falconia
2024-01-07  3:55             ` Clem Cole
2024-01-10 16:53             ` Michael Parson
2024-01-10 17:45               ` Clem Cole
2024-01-07 10:54         ` Brian Walden
2024-01-07 12:12           ` arnold
2024-01-08  0:20           ` Mychaela Falconia
2024-01-07 21:59             ` [TUHS] My own version of troff Mychaela Falconia
2024-01-08  3:24               ` [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / " G. Branden Robinson
2024-01-08  5:10                 ` Mychaela Falconia
2024-01-08  7:11                   ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-01-09  9:38                     ` Mychaela Falconia
2024-01-09 16:27                       ` Al Kossow
2024-01-09 17:18                         ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-01-09 18:05                           ` Phil Budne
2024-01-09 18:30                             ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2024-01-09 20:29                           ` Al Kossow
2024-01-09 20:31                             ` Al Kossow
2024-01-09 22:07                           ` Clem Cole
     [not found]                   ` <CAGcdajdc5GfTOeP_Vw_AC0E6BdnrBLape1+GEd2JGDCg4n31eQ@mail.gmail.com>
2024-01-17 14:08                     ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-01-17 15:32                       ` Brad Spencer
2024-01-17 15:48                         ` Clem Cole
2024-01-17 16:25                           ` Rich Salz
2024-01-18  7:00                     ` Mychaela Falconia
     [not found]                       ` <CAGcdaje=RHbLNZv2Cy=xtuEMaYU7RXMtnom7gYuAMMju2xrHgw@mail.gmail.com>
2024-01-18  8:22                         ` Mychaela Falconia
2024-01-18 13:27                       ` G. Branden Robinson
     [not found]                     ` <ZalHs6DAuvRwXTuS@fluorine>
2024-01-19 16:52                       ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-01-06 14:52       ` [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? Will Senn
2024-01-06 16:52         ` Al Kossow
2024-01-06 16:54           ` Al Kossow
2024-01-06 18:28         ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-01-07 13:42 Douglas McIlroy
2024-01-09  6:32 Brian Walden
2024-01-09  8:24 Brian Walden
2024-01-09  9:05 ` Mychaela Falconia
2024-01-10 18:25 Douglas McIlroy

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