[TUHS] Re: Documentation for Sys-V basic interpreter

[KenUnix <ken.unix.guy@gmail.com>]

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Again, thanks for the help. It is appreciated.

Ken

On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:44 AM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

> Matt - again, thank you.  I just did a diff between the man pages from
> the System III version on TUHS and the version I have from Kirk's CD set
> [which was what we had a UCB].  The System III version looks different from
> the UCB man page (*e.g*., no plot() functions and a few other things).
>  So, I did a little checking last night and wrote a couple of emails to
> some folks.  The evidence I have found does seem to me that Dick Haight wrote
> the original bs(1) command.  Note that Dolotta, Haight, Piskorik, and
> Mashey were the original PWB 1.0 core team, as it were.   But ... looking
> at my printed PWB 1.0 manual, there does not seem to be a bs(1) man page.
> However, we know that while PWB was never released officially outside of
> the Bell System - although parts of PWB 'leaked' to MIT, CMU, and UCB
> [probably via the OYOC's -- Noel's MIT system is clearly influenced by PWB
> 1.0 and I know the CMU system we had was also thanks to folks like tjk and
> Phil Karn].   The point is that many/most of the commands from PWB [with
> SCCS being the most important], if not the full kernel itself, arrived in
> those places.
>
> So a semi-educated >>WAG<< ...  with the evidence being that
>
>    1. Haight's bs(1) was different from Ken's bas(1) which was in V7,
>    2. bs(1) is on Kirk's CD (disk4),
>    3. we know parts of PWB leaked from Bell,
>    4. I personally remember having it at UCB;
>
> Kirk's version at UCB predated the System III/V one you have, and it is
> likely an either Haight version from PWB 1.0 somehow.    We know a Dale and
> their team in Columbus not only wrote their own enhancements, but they
> also took the source from all over: Research, PWB, and some of the
> universities.    The CB/UNIX folks likely updated bs(1), and later, when
> some of the CB UNIX enhancement made it back to Summit and in PWB 2, 3, and
> the like - that's where the updated version appeared.
>
> Clem
> ᐧ
>
> On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 12:29 AM segaloco via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
>
>> Here are raw[1] and nroff-d[2] restorations of the CB-UNIX 2.1 stamped
>> page:
>>
>> [1] - https://pastebin.com/EAjMyvSn
>> [2] - https://pastebin.com/Dgh1g5q8
>>
>> According to a diff with the 3.0 manpage in the tree[3], these are some
>> changes of note from CB 2.1 to PWB 3.0:
>>
>> - Added ibase, obase
>> - Added elif and using a single fi to end an if elif else chain
>> - Added return for returning from function calls
>> - Added support for tables (arrays based on key-value pairs)
>> - The plot(11) routine swaps the corners about the y axis
>> - A bug is removed indicating a limit of 250 lines, 250 variables, and
>> artificial truncation of names to six characters.
>>
>> Unfortunately the CB 2.1 page on the archive[4] doesn't indicate anything
>> of particular note that wasn't pretty much the same in PWB 3.0.
>>
>> [3] -
>> https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=SysIII/usr/src/man/man1/bs.1
>> [4] -
>> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/CB_Unix/cbunix_man1_01.pdf
>> (Page 32-39)
>>
>> - Matt G.
>> ------- Original Message -------
>> On Friday, May 19th, 2023 at 5:31 PM, Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
>>
>> Matt.
>>
>> Does the CB man page match the PWB 3 version? I may be mixing something
>> up in my memory so I ask because I seem to remember there were some
>> differences between some scripts that came from different places ( We did a
>> lot with graphics in the cad group and when we had tools that came from
>> other places it was often graphics that bit us which is why I think that
>> sticks in my mind). I’ll have to try looking at the version we had at UCB
>> in a bit.
>>
>> As for doc the only thing I remember was a man page for the tool.
>>
>> Clem
>>
>> On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 4:19 PM segaloco via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
>>
>>> The earliest documentation I can spot is the bs(1) man page dated
>>> November, 1979 in the CB-UNIX 2.3 Manual (although the page itself is
>>> tagged CB-UNIX 2.1.)
>>>
>>> This appears to be the same lineage as what we see in the commercial PWB
>>> releases, however, the earliest backstop I have on that is June, 1980 with
>>> 3.0. PWB 1.0 contains no such page, and unfortunately the situation right
>>> around 1979 is still a bit fuzzy re: PWB 2.0 and UNIX/TS. That said, the
>>> preface to the CB-UNIX 2.3 manual (which is also a 2.1 page from 1979) pays
>>> no credit to the UNIX/TS 1.1 nor PWB 2.0 manuals the way the PWB 3.0
>>> preface does, so perhaps bs(1) started in CB?
>>>
>>> Looking forward, this utility persists up til SVR2, but is gone as of
>>> the SVR3 globe-with-UNIX-lines manual series. Curiously, it was also
>>> omitted from the 3B20 PWB 4.1 manual, but the 5.0 and subsequent System V 1
>>> and 2 manuals don't have a hardware-exclusivity masthead mark, so this was
>>> likely made portable/ported to 3B20 sometime around '81. In any case, none
>>> of the man pages in any of these manuals indicate any memoranda or other
>>> papers in the SEE ALSO. Doesn't mean one doesn't exist, but points to the
>>> likelihood that the manpage is really all you get documentation-wise. Even
>>> the BTL versions don't mention any papers.
>>>
>>> In any case, that's what I could turn up, there is a bs(1) manpage in
>>> the following versions:
>>>
>>> - 1979 - CB-UNIX 2.1
>>> - 1980 - PWB 3.0/System III
>>> - 1981 - PWB 4.x (Non 3B20)
>>> - 1981 - CB-UNIX 2.3 (unmodified from 2.1)
>>> - 1982 - PWB 5.0
>>> - 1983 - System V
>>> - 1984 - System V Release 2
>>>
>>> Hope that helps. All of these save the 4.x version should be in various
>>> places around. I don't remember seeing anything outrageously different
>>> between 3.0 and 5.0, so it very well may be that the 4.x manpage could be
>>> easily synthesized with a diff, but I don't have a physical page to prove
>>> anything.
>>>
>>> - Matt G.
>>> ------- Original Message -------
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 19th, 2023 at 8:06 AM, KenUnix <ken.unix.guy@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> Was any documentation ever done for the basic interpreter
>>> that was on System-V?
>>>
>>> Things like allowed keywords or special keywords.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Ken
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> WWL 📚 Okey Dokey OK Boss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>> Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
>>
>>
>>

-- 
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JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey OK Boss

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