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From: Rob Gingell <gingell@computer.org>
To: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>, segaloco <segaloco@protonmail.com>
Cc: tuhs@tuhs.org
Subject: [TUHS] Re: UNIX on (not quite bare) System/370
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2022 17:53:50 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <dd1049b0-59f6-14d4-5d37-31758d1feda4@computer.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAC20D2Manghv-i9NUxr==ue8e2wLRWyaRDYpUb5X8X3Hq_twqA@mail.gmail.com>

Some additional contextual notes largely in support of Clem's observations:

On 12/20/22 6:27 AM, Clem Cole wrote:
> Charlie Brown's new directive and 
> being allowed to be in the 'computer business.'  The whole thing about 
> the System x stuff was created and pushed from NC as part of the 
> latter. 
...
> As I have said so often, as technologists, we have to try to remember: 
> that simple economics beats sophisticated engineering
> Yes, this is sometimes grating for us, as we like to look at things from 
> the technical side. As Larry likes to point out, the new SunVM was 
> excellent but was tossed in favor of the inferior SVR4, 
I said "largely in support" because have to contradict something first. 
The Sun VM system wasn't thrown out in SVR4, it was incorporated into 
SVR4, as were all of Sun's significant systems technologies through 
SunOS 4.0. (Which isn't to dismiss Larry's grievances over SVR4 as well 
as later changes corrupting to the VM system to support ZFS, simply to 
put them in the timeline correctly.)

That the AT&T/Sun SVR4 project happened at all had as its backdrop 
AT&T's desire to enter the computer business in a big way. AT&T had 
hired Vittorio Cassoni to run its computer division and he supplied 
significant energy towards the relationship with Sun (the word "pursuit" 
seemed applicable at the time). The impression I had was that this was 
part of trying to move quickly, one of probably several initiatives to 
gain a foothold in the industry. An alliance with a then red-hot company 
like Sun was perceived to serve that. People who were at Summit or 
within AT&T likely have a better and more complete cause-and-effect history.

The alliance was over more than UNIX as it anticipated AT&T employing 
SPARC processors and gaining a "platform presence". To Clem's point 
though, the alliance meant both organizations had to make concessions. 
In this particular case Sun didn't have to concede its existing systems 
work such as the VM system as that was all adopted in SVR4, but did have 
to concede what our plans would have been without the alliance. I can't 
speak to USG/Summit's concession but I'm very aware that our imposition 
on them was ... disruptive.

The press release jointly issued by both companies announcing the 
alliance, when read in the context of "AT&T is getting into the computer 
business" may add perspective. The release is appended below, though 
reading it 35 years later and knowing the outcome is also an interesting 
perspective and an illustration that "optimism" is also a party to most 
new relationships,

====

FOR RELEASE MONDAY, OCTOBER 19, 1987

NEW YORK, NY -- AT&T and Sun Microsystems, Inc., today unveiled plans
for a computer platform that will be unsurpassed in its ability to
protect customers' software investments, while allowing them to take
full advantage of technological innovation.

"This is the wave of the future," said Vittorio Cassoni, president of
AT&T's Data Systems Group.  "We expect this platform to become a major
computing environment for the 1990's and beyond."

The new platform will use a unified version of AT&T's UNIX    System V,
as well as Sun's recently announced Scalable Processor Architecture
(SPARC*), a flexible microprocessor design for chips that use reduced
instruction-set computing (RISC) technology.  It will include a
standard interface, known as an application binary interface, or ABI,
which will run UNIX system software programs as interchangeably as
personal computers run PC software today.

"Customers are demanding freedom of choice and easy access to new
technology--needs that only the UNIX system can meet," said Cassoni.
"That is why AT&T is making a concerted effort to consolidate the UNIX
system market."

UNIX System V for the new platform will incorporate popular features of
the Berkeley 4.2 system, a derivative of the UNIX system used widely in
scientific and engineering markets, as well as features of SunOS*, a
variant of the Berkeley 4.2 systems marketed by Sun.  These features
include networking and graphics features, such as the Network File
System (NFS*) and X.11/NeWS*, a graphic user interface.

Earlier this year, AT&T and Microsoft Corporation agreed to incorporate
the features of Microsoft's XENIX** into UNIX System V.

"Our agreement with Microsoft solidified the UNIX system market for
computers that use the Intel 80386 microprocessor, just as today's
agreement defines the UNIX system market for RISC computers," said
Cassoni.

"It's clear that the next generation of computers will be based on RISC
technology," said Scott McNealy, president and chief executive officer
of Sun Microsystems.  "The safest investments today are computers based
on the UNIX system.  The UNIX system is the only environment that can
ride the technology curve to RISC.

"The SPARC architecture is capturing widespread interest in the
industry," said McNealy.  "With UNIX System V and the ABI, SPARC
systems will give customers a powerful, open alternative to the
proprietary computing environments that, in effect, discourage
innovation and growth."

The SPARC architecture is gaining acceptance among RISC chip
manufacturers, since it can be transferred, or scaled, easily to new,
more powerful semiconductor technologies.  SPARC technology already has
been licensed to Fujitsu Microelectronics Inc., Cypress Semiconductor
Corp., and Bipolar Integrated Technology, Inc., for manufacture.

Sun markets the Sun-4* supercomputing workstation, which is based on a
SPARC implementation from Fujitsu.

"AT&T will add SPARC-based computers to its product line," Cassoni
said.  "And since our 3B computers and 6386 WorkGroup Systems are based
on UNIX System V, our customers who require high-performance computers
will be able to migrate easily to SPARC-RISC technology while
protecting their current and future investments in 3B and 6386 software
and system training."

The new platform will be created in phases.  By mid-1988, Sun will make
available a version of SunOS that will conform to AT&T's System V
Interface Definition.  In 1989, AT&T will offer UNIX System V
incorporating key Berkeley 4.2 system and SunOS features.  AT&T, with
Sun and others in the industry, then will continue to develop the
technology to be incorporated into the UNIX system to meet the market
needs of the 1990's.

AT&T and Sun will offer the new platform in their product lines.  In
addition, AT&T will license the software technology and Sun will
license the SPARC architecture to other manufacturers.

                              ###

  reply	other threads:[~2022-12-23  1:55 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 42+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-12-19 17:38 [TUHS] " Phil Budne
2022-12-19 18:53 ` [TUHS] " segaloco via TUHS
2022-12-19 21:01   ` Clem Cole
2022-12-19 21:19     ` Rob Pike
2022-12-19 22:15       ` segaloco via TUHS
2022-12-20  0:02         ` Brad Spencer
2022-12-20  1:04           ` Adam Thornton
2022-12-20  2:35             ` segaloco via TUHS
2022-12-20 14:25           ` Andrew Hume
2022-12-19 23:02       ` Clem Cole
2022-12-20  1:20         ` Larry Stewart
2022-12-20  1:33           ` Larry McVoy
2022-12-20  1:57             ` George Michaelson
2022-12-20  2:06               ` Dan Cross
2022-12-20 15:04                 ` Chet Ramey
2022-12-20  2:12               ` Adam Thornton
2022-12-20 15:29                 ` Andy Kosela
2022-12-20 15:35                   ` Adam Thornton
2022-12-21  2:43                     ` Luther Johnson
2022-12-20 23:18                 ` David Arnold
2022-12-20  2:52       ` Bakul Shah
2022-12-20  3:09         ` Larry McVoy
2022-12-20  3:27           ` Bakul Shah
2022-12-20  3:48           ` Warner Losh
2022-12-20  4:21           ` Jonathan Gray
2022-12-19 21:36 ` Marc Donner
2022-12-19 22:52   ` Charles H Sauer (he/him)
     [not found]   ` <01428a75-3507-7b8a-fd35-cef74c8c0bd2@ucsb.edu>
2022-12-20  1:49     ` [TUHS] Re: pre-1991 USENIX proceedings Marc Donner
2022-12-20  3:11 ` [TUHS] Re: UNIX on (not quite bare) System/370 Warner Losh
2022-12-20  8:56 ` arnold
2022-12-20  9:31   ` segaloco via TUHS
2022-12-20  9:39     ` arnold
2022-12-20  9:55       ` Jonathan Gray
2022-12-20 14:27     ` Clem Cole
2022-12-23  1:53       ` Rob Gingell [this message]
2022-12-22 19:00 ` Andrew Hume
2022-12-20 22:25 Noel Chiappa
2022-12-20 23:18 ` Bakul Shah
2022-12-22 17:26 Noel Chiappa
2022-12-22 17:33 ` Dan Cross
2022-12-22 20:25 ` Warner Losh
2022-12-22 23:06   ` Warner Losh

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