RE: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

RE: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Amol Deshpande]

i put in code to hash foo.exe as foo as well as foo.exe

bogus corrections should be reduced a bit by this.

(check for version 0.50)
thanks,
-amol

> ----------
> From: 	Bart Schaefer[SMTP:schaefer@brasslantern.com]
> Sent: 	Tuesday, September 15, 1998 5:55 PM
> To: 	zsh-users@math.gatech.edu
> Subject: 	Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
> 
> On Sep 15,  2:56pm, Amol Deshpande wrote:
> > > 
> > > "setopt correct" is worthless because it uses the full file name (e.g.
> > > "foo.exe") when trying to correct the spelling of a command ("foo")
> and
> > > therefore complains about nearly everything except builtins.  (This is
> > > probably fixable by playing with hash/unhash commands.)
> > > 
> > it's actually fixable by just renaming all your foo.exes to foo :-)
> 
> I wrote this little fragment of code to fix it (still not handling all
> the possible extensions, just .exe):
> 
> function fixhash {
>   emulate -R zsh
>   setopt localoptions
>   local hashed exe
>   hash -f
>   eval hashed=\( $(hash) \)
>   exe=( ${(M)hashed:#*.[Ee][Xx][Ee]\=*} )
>   hashed=( ${hashed%%\=*} )
>   hashed=( ${hashed:#*.[Ee][Xx][Ee]} )
>   hashed=( ${(M)hashed:#*.*} )
>   [[ $#hashed -gt 0 ]] && unhash $hashed
>   [[ $#exe -gt 0 ]] && hash ${exe:l:s/.exe//}
> }
> 
> However, running that function takes a LONG time and then crashes the
> shell.
> Right before the shell crashes, the $hashed array is 1349 elements long
> and
> contains just over 16000 bytes.
> 
> If I don't put the commands in a function, simply type everything from the
> "hash -f" to the end directly at the PS1 prompt (or put it in .zshrc),
> then
> it still takes a long time -- particularly "eval hashed=\( $(hash) \)" --
> but the shell doesn't crash.
> 
> > For example,  HOMDRIVE=F:,  and HOMEPATH=\
> > so, if  FOO=$HOMEDRIVE$HOMEPATH,  then FOO is set
> > to F:\.
> > 
> > this will confuse the shell no end (all paths MUST be '/'-delimited)
> 
> Hmm, that's interesting.  Right now I have HOME=d:\home\schaefer and I
> don't have winntconvertbackslash and the shell seems to be doing fine.
> (Everything in $PATH is forward-slash-delimited, though.)
> 
> > in tcsh i could just do
> > 
> > set bar=$var:s#\\#/#:ah  
> > 
> > but I was told there was no simple way in zsh to do the same.
> 
> bar=${var:gs@\\@/@}
> 
> works fine.  Going the other way is trickier:
> 
> var=${bar:gs@/@\\\\@}
> 
> I don't know why the extra two backslashes are needed.  Anyone?
> 
> > BTW, please don't cc amol@blarg.net.
> 
> Sorry; my UA copied the Cc: from your own headers.  (I've been deleting
> amold@microsoft.com from the To: header by hand).
> 

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Hannu Koivisto]

Stephen Marley <Stephen.Marley@memex.com> writes:

| OK, so I didn't know about Quickedit mode - that might deserve one
| `wrong', not three!

Sorry, I hope I didn't offend you. I thought it was somewhat
more positive phrase to say wrong three times (with a pause
before the last one when spoken) in English. It seems it
produced the opposite effect I wanted.

| What has Quickedit mode got to do with scroll back? How do you cut and

Nothing. The original question was to get both a scroll back and
reasonable copy&paste to a zsh-window and I simply concluded
that it is possible to get them both as the scroll back part was
already answered.

| paste `using a pointing device', as the help says? I still can't get it
| to work without using the menu. Please enlighten me.

It should work simply by pressing left mouse button at the top
left corner of the area you wan to copy, dragging to the bottom
right corner and then pressing right mouse button (which
actually does the copy). After that, right mouse button should
do paste. Are you using NT or Win9{5,8}? When I used Win95 last
time two years ago or so, I noticed that console and also that
quick edit mode were a bit "unstable" under it. In NT it has
always worked for me.

//Hannu

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Bart Schaefer]

On Sep 16,  3:20pm, Hannu Koivisto wrote:
} Subject: Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
}
} Go to Properties and enable "QuickEdit Mode".
} 
} So, you can get both a scrollback and reasonable copy&paste.

Reasonable?

The number of times I've wanted to select a rectangular region of text
is vanishingly small compared to the number of times I've wanted to
select a bit from the tail of one line on through a bit of the head of
the next.  Is there some option I don't see to make selection sane?

(This is, of course, not zsh's fault.)

-- 
Bart Schaefer                                 Brass Lantern Enterprises
http://www.well.com/user/barts              http://www.brasslantern.com

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Stephen Marley]

On 16 September 1998, Hannu Koivisto wrote:
> Stephen Marley <Stephen.Marley@memex.com> writes:
> 
> | BTW, you can get scrollback (if I understand your terminology properly).
> | Properties->Layout->Screen buffer size does the trick. Cut and paste
> | works too but it is incredibly fiddly as you need to muck about with
> | the menu.
> 
> Wrong, wrong and wrong. 

OK, so I didn't know about Quickedit mode - that might deserve one
`wrong', not three!

> Go to Properties and enable "QuickEdit Mode".  So, you can get both a
> scrollback and reasonable copy&paste.

What has Quickedit mode got to do with scroll back? How do you cut and
paste `using a pointing device', as the help says? I still can't get it
to work without using the menu. Please enlighten me.

-- 
stephen@memex.com

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Hannu Koivisto]

Stephen Marley <Stephen.Marley@memex.com> writes:

| BTW, you can get scrollback (if I understand your terminology properly).
| Properties->Layout->Screen buffer size does the trick. Cut and paste
| works too but it is incredibly fiddly as you need to muck about with
| the menu.

Wrong, wrong and wrong. Go to Properties and enable "QuickEdit
Mode".

So, you can get both a scrollback and reasonable copy&paste.

HTH,
//Hannu

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Bart Schaefer]

On Sep 15,  2:56pm, Amol Deshpande wrote:
> > 
> > "setopt correct" is worthless because it uses the full file name (e.g.
> > "foo.exe") when trying to correct the spelling of a command ("foo") and
> > therefore complains about nearly everything except builtins.  (This is
> > probably fixable by playing with hash/unhash commands.)
> > 
> it's actually fixable by just renaming all your foo.exes to foo :-)

I wrote this little fragment of code to fix it (still not handling all
the possible extensions, just .exe):

function fixhash {
  emulate -R zsh
  setopt localoptions
  local hashed exe
  hash -f
  eval hashed=\( $(hash) \)
  exe=( ${(M)hashed:#*.[Ee][Xx][Ee]\=*} )
  hashed=( ${hashed%%\=*} )
  hashed=( ${hashed:#*.[Ee][Xx][Ee]} )
  hashed=( ${(M)hashed:#*.*} )
  [[ $#hashed -gt 0 ]] && unhash $hashed
  [[ $#exe -gt 0 ]] && hash ${exe:l:s/.exe//}
}

However, running that function takes a LONG time and then crashes the shell.
Right before the shell crashes, the $hashed array is 1349 elements long and
contains just over 16000 bytes.

If I don't put the commands in a function, simply type everything from the
"hash -f" to the end directly at the PS1 prompt (or put it in .zshrc), then
it still takes a long time -- particularly "eval hashed=\( $(hash) \)" --
but the shell doesn't crash.

> For example,  HOMDRIVE=F:,  and HOMEPATH=\
> so, if  FOO=$HOMEDRIVE$HOMEPATH,  then FOO is set
> to F:\.
> 
> this will confuse the shell no end (all paths MUST be '/'-delimited)

Hmm, that's interesting.  Right now I have HOME=d:\home\schaefer and I
don't have winntconvertbackslash and the shell seems to be doing fine.
(Everything in $PATH is forward-slash-delimited, though.)

> in tcsh i could just do
> 
> set bar=$var:s#\\#/#:ah  
> 
> but I was told there was no simple way in zsh to do the same.

bar=${var:gs@\\@/@}

works fine.  Going the other way is trickier:

var=${bar:gs@/@\\\\@}

I don't know why the extra two backslashes are needed.  Anyone?

> BTW, please don't cc amol@blarg.net.

Sorry; my UA copied the Cc: from your own headers.  (I've been deleting
amold@microsoft.com from the To: header by hand).

RE: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Amol Deshpande]

> ----------
> From: 	Bart Schaefer[SMTP:schaefer@brasslantern.com]
> Sent: 	Tuesday, September 15, 1998 1:59 PM
> To: 	ZShell Users List
> Cc: 	amol@blarg.net
> Subject: 	Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
> 
> 
> "setopt correct" is worthless because it uses the full file name (e.g.
> "foo.exe") when trying to correct the spelling of a command ("foo") and
> therefore complains about nearly everything except builtins.  (This is
> probably fixable by playing with hash/unhash commands.)
> 
it's actually fixable by just renaming all your foo.exes to foo :-)
i thought it would be a waste of time for the shell to try all possible
extensions (.exe, .com, .bat, .cmd) for each command, so i didn't bother
to fix this. 

> "setopt winnt_ignore_case winnt_lame_path_fix" seems to be a pretty good
> idea.  I'm not sure exactly when "winnt_convert_backslash" is important.
> 
you probaby need it in cases where you are deriving paths from other DOS
style paths.
For example,  HOMDRIVE=F:,  and HOMEPATH=\
so, if  FOO=$HOMEDRIVE$HOMEPATH,  then FOO is set
to F:\.

this will confuse the shell no end (all paths MUST be '/'-delimited)
if you set winntconvertbackslash, the theory is that the shell converts
'\' to '/' when matching paths.

in tcsh i could just do 

set bar=$var:s#\\#/#:ah  

to convert '\' to '/' before
assignment, but I was told there was no simple way in zsh to do the
same.

BTW, please don't cc amol@blarg.net. I am a member of this mailing list.

thanks,
-amol

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Bart Schaefer]

One other remark -- the %# prompt character always resolves to #, even when
I'm not administrator or any such root-like user.  Gnu-win32's "id" program
returns a non-zero UID, but the zsh $UID is 0.  Is this a known problem?

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Bart Schaefer]

On Sep 15, 11:00am, Amol Deshpande wrote:
> Subject: RE: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
> 
> > (I also put in HOME=$HOMEDRIVE$HOMEPATH; what was the reason
> > for not defaulting $HOME from this on NT 4+ ?)
> > 
> each user is guaranteed to get a different $USERPROFILE, while I don't think
> the $HOMEPATH changes unless you specifically set it for each user.

Ah, this is correct; it appears to default to \ if not explicitly assigned
by the administrator.  So here's what I have now:

[[ -n "$HOMEPATH" ]] && export HOME="$HOMEDRIVE$HOMEPATH"
[[ -z "$ZDOTDIR" && "$HOMEPATH" == [\\/] ]] && ZDOTDIR="$USERPROFILE"

This makes ~ sensible for users whose HOMEPATH is set e.g. from the user
account manager, while looking for init files in the USERPROFILE for any
user that doesn't have a useful HOMEPATH.

A couple of other remarks about using zsh on NT:

"setopt correct" is worthless because it uses the full file name (e.g.
"foo.exe") when trying to correct the spelling of a command ("foo") and
therefore complains about nearly everything except builtins.  (This is
probably fixable by playing with hash/unhash commands.)

"setopt winnt_ignore_case winnt_lame_path_fix" seems to be a pretty good
idea.  I'm not sure exactly when "winnt_convert_backslash" is important.

RE: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Amol Deshpande]

by the way, you may find that if a user starts up zsh from another
drive, the shell will not find /etc/zshenv.

> ----------
> From: 	Bart Schaefer[SMTP:schaefer@brasslantern.com]
> Sent: 	Tuesday, September 15, 1998 10:18 AM
> To: 	ZShell Users List
> Cc: 	amol@blarg.net
> Subject: 	Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
> 
> On Sep 14,  7:55pm, 'Sven Guckes' wrote:
> } Subject: Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
> }
> } Quoting Bart Schaefer (schaefer@brasslantern.com):
> } > zagzig[21] zcat zsh.exe.gz | strings -a | less +/zshrc
> } 
> } Actually, I tried just that - but I figured that it would not work
> } as there is no directories /etc on Windows systems.  :-/
> 
> There is, however, a mkdir command ...
> 
> On Sep 15,  1:53am, 'Sven Guckes' wrote:
> } Subject: Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
> }
> } And I always thought that the value of a variable on the DOS shell
> } is "%var%" and not "$var".  or has this changed with WindowsNT?
> 
> It's a property of the shell (or rather, of command.com) not of the OS.
> So yes, if you were running a DOS batch file, you would use %var%.
> In zsh scripts, however, it's zsh that interprets the syntax, just as
> it does on unix, so you use $var.
> 
> } The value of a variable on Windows cannot be used as $VAR (I think)
> } but needs to be specified as %VAR% - and this is only possible in batch
> } files.  Right or wrong?
> 
> Mostly wrong.
> 
> If what you want to do is set the variables for all Windows apps, e.g.
> via the Environment tab in the System control panel, then you use %var%.
> If you're putting the variables in a zsh startup file, you use $var.
> 
> On Sep 14,  5:52pm, Amol Deshpande wrote:
> } Subject: RE: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
> }
> } Remember that these rules apply only if don't set HOME. Since there is
> } no /etc,  only the rules for locating files from $HOME are followed.
> 
> I don't have windows running at home, but yesterday I installed zsh.exe
> on an NT machine at work.  I created a d:\etc (d: being the boot drive on
> that machine) and put a zshenv file in it, and lo, zsh reads it.  So now
> the setting of TERM=vt100 and adding the gnu-win32 bin to the path and so
> on is in d:\etc\zshenv, and every user on that NT box gets it if they
> start zsh.  (I also put in HOME=$HOMEDRIVE$HOMEPATH; what was the reason
> for not defaulting $HOME from this on NT 4+ ?)
> 
> -- 
> Bart Schaefer                                 Brass Lantern Enterprises
> http://www.well.com/user/barts              http://www.brasslantern.com
> 

RE: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Amol Deshpande]

> ----------
> From: 	Bart Schaefer[SMTP:schaefer@brasslantern.com]
> Sent: 	Tuesday, September 15, 1998 10:18 AM
> To: 	ZShell Users List
> Cc: 	amol@blarg.net
> Subject: 	Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
> 
> 
> I don't have windows running at home, but yesterday I installed zsh.exe
> on an NT machine at work.  I created a d:\etc (d: being the boot drive on
> that machine) and put a zshenv file in it, and lo, zsh reads it.  So now
> the setting of TERM=vt100 and adding the gnu-win32 bin to the path and so
> on is in d:\etc\zshenv, and every user on that NT box gets it if they
> start zsh.  (I also put in HOME=$HOMEDRIVE$HOMEPATH; what was the reason
> for not defaulting $HOME from this on NT 4+ ?)
> 
each user is guaranteed to get a different $USERPROFILE, while I don't think
the $HOMEPATH changes unless you specifically set it for each user. not very
useful if you don't know in advance the usernames of everyone who may log
in.

-amol

> -- 
> Bart Schaefer                                 Brass Lantern Enterprises
> http://www.well.com/user/barts              http://www.brasslantern.com
> 

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Bart Schaefer]

On Sep 14,  7:55pm, 'Sven Guckes' wrote:
} Subject: Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
}
} Quoting Bart Schaefer (schaefer@brasslantern.com):
} > zagzig[21] zcat zsh.exe.gz | strings -a | less +/zshrc
} 
} Actually, I tried just that - but I figured that it would not work
} as there is no directories /etc on Windows systems.  :-/

There is, however, a mkdir command ...

On Sep 15,  1:53am, 'Sven Guckes' wrote:
} Subject: Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
}
} And I always thought that the value of a variable on the DOS shell
} is "%var%" and not "$var".  or has this changed with WindowsNT?

It's a property of the shell (or rather, of command.com) not of the OS.
So yes, if you were running a DOS batch file, you would use %var%.
In zsh scripts, however, it's zsh that interprets the syntax, just as
it does on unix, so you use $var.

} The value of a variable on Windows cannot be used as $VAR (I think)
} but needs to be specified as %VAR% - and this is only possible in batch
} files.  Right or wrong?

Mostly wrong.

If what you want to do is set the variables for all Windows apps, e.g.
via the Environment tab in the System control panel, then you use %var%.
If you're putting the variables in a zsh startup file, you use $var.

On Sep 14,  5:52pm, Amol Deshpande wrote:
} Subject: RE: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
}
} Remember that these rules apply only if don't set HOME. Since there is
} no /etc,  only the rules for locating files from $HOME are followed.

I don't have windows running at home, but yesterday I installed zsh.exe
on an NT machine at work.  I created a d:\etc (d: being the boot drive on
that machine) and put a zshenv file in it, and lo, zsh reads it.  So now
the setting of TERM=vt100 and adding the gnu-win32 bin to the path and so
on is in d:\etc\zshenv, and every user on that NT box gets it if they
start zsh.  (I also put in HOME=$HOMEDRIVE$HOMEPATH; what was the reason
for not defaulting $HOME from this on NT 4+ ?)

-- 
Bart Schaefer                                 Brass Lantern Enterprises
http://www.well.com/user/barts              http://www.brasslantern.com

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Stephen Marley]

On 15 September 1998, David N. Blank-Edelman wrote:
> Howdy-
>   I just wanted to de-lurk for a moment to say publically that I'm one
>   of those people who uses your zsh port on NT and I am *really,
>   really* grateful for all of the time you've put in so far to make it
>   work. I'm sure I'm not alone in this appreciation.

No you're certainly not. Life on NT would be almost unbearable without
Amol's Zsh port and other great progs like Vim.

> P.S. Now if I could only get a decent console window under NT that can
> do scrollback and reasonable cut and paste....

I'd love to have the XFree86 xterm as the console window. It's probably
been ported under cygwin32 but running an Xserver just to get a decent
console window seems a bit OTT.

BTW, you can get scrollback (if I understand your terminology properly).
Properties->Layout->Screen buffer size does the trick. Cut and paste
works too but it is incredibly fiddly as you need to muck about with
the menu.

-- 
stephen@memex.com

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[David N. Blank-Edelman]

> There are dozens of people already using the
> shell, and i've *never* had questions like this.
...
> when i have some more time, i will try to put that together.

Howdy-
  I just wanted to de-lurk for a moment to say publically that I'm one
  of those people who uses your zsh port on NT and I am *really,
  really* grateful for all of the time you've put in so far to make it
  work. I'm sure I'm not alone in this appreciation.

  Comprehensive documentation is great, but it doesn't do command
  completion for me under NT nearly as well as your zsh binary
  does. Thanks again for the port (and to everyone else that has
  worked hard to make zsh the uber-shell it is today).
  
     Respectfully,
       David N. Blank-Edelman
       Director of Technology
       College of Computer Science
       Northeastern University 

P.S. Now if I could only get a decent console window under NT that can
do scrollback and reasonable cut and paste....

RE: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Amol Deshpande]

ok, let me be as precise i can.

1.  zsh first checks for the existence of the ZDOTDIR variable. If that is
not set,
     it checks for HOME.
2. if neither is set it, it sets a HOME variable. 
  This is os-dependent, as outlined in the README.

Once this value (ZDOTDIR or HOME) is determined, the win32 version itself
does NOT 
have it's own search mechanisms for any .rc files.  It is only trying to
pick a good default SINGLE directory to look for startup files.

what that means is that after this point, the shell behaves as if it was
running on
a unix system with no global /etc directory or other locations to check for
startup files. So, you only have the user's $home to look at.

If this still does not make sense, i'm afraid you will have to hope for
someone more eloquent to explain it. 

> > > What is the "windows directory" on Windows95
> > > (ie how is this defined in a Windows setup)?
> > c:\windows by default. or whatever directory you installed win95.
> 
> Does the zsh look explicitly into the directory "C:\WINDOWS" then?
> If not then how does it determine this value?
> What if I have installed both Windows95 and WindowsNT on my disk?
> Which directory gets checked first then?
> (This is not just a theoretical issue!)
> 
If you installed in c:\win95 and c:\nt, then each is
your "windows directory" when you boot into the specific OS. 

Again, there is no "first" or "second" directory to be searched. It's either
your ZDOTDIR, or a HOME directory set by you or the shell. 

this WILL be different between the two OSes if you let the shell pick the
default place. In the case of a multiboot, you therefore need to set HOME
explicitly in at least one of the OSes, if you want a common startup file.
Or you can put dummy .zshrcs that all source a common one in each
default HOME.

thus, if you have win95 in c:\windows and nt4.0 in c:\nt40, put
a .zshrc with

source c:/zsh/.zshrc

in each c:\windows, and another similar one in 

c:\nt40\profiles\<your user name>



> > 2. If ZDOTDIR is not set, and HOME is not set,
> > then zsh sets home to the directories above.
> 
> This statement in unclear.  Does the zsh set HOME,
> and if so, does it change its value to a list of dirs in turn,
> stopping at the first dir where it can find a zshrc?
> 
why in god's name would the shell search your disk for a .zshrc ?
it assumes a HOME directory name and sees if you have .zshrc 
there. if not, it starts without one.

> On the contrary!  The OS determines the kind of setup I have to use.
> And its syntax determines how I can access the value of variables.
> 
that's ludicrous.

> And from the non-description it is still not clear to me where I would
> have to
> set the variables HOMEDRIVE and HOMEPATH - therefore I do not know whether
> I
> should set them with the autoexec.bat and whether I would have to use the
> syntax of command.com; I hope this makes the problem more clear now.
> 
If you had used nt for any length of time, you would know that these are set
by
the system. 
Also, the $ notation is used in the readme because it's familiar unix
syntax. obviously
if you are trying to create a SOMEVAR path variable from variables FOO and
BAR, 
you would use

%FOO%\%BAR% in a batch/cmd file
and 
$FOO/$BAR in a  zsh/tcsh script.


> The README is very concise and not at all precise,
> the changelog was pretty useless (as I remember),
> and emailing you is what I keep doing as I hope
> that this will be faster than reading the source.  ;-)
> 
It seems to me that you are trying to figure out how to use
zsh without actually using it on NT. please try it first and then
email me (directly at amold@microsoft.com) with any
questions. There are dozens of people already using the
shell, and i've *never* had questions like this.

> Well, this is your chance to have your info compiled by me.
> But I wonder whether it wouldn't be easier to write it up
> yourself in pseudo source style, eg like this:
> 
> 	WindowsNT-4.x:
> 	if $HOME
> 	then test $HOME/.zshrc
> 	elsif ZDOTDIR
> 	then test $ZDOTDIR/.zshrc
> 	else test $USERPROFILE\.zshrc
> 
> I just need something like this.
> 
when i have some more time, i will try to put that together.

thanks,
-amol

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

['Sven Guckes']

Quoting Amol Deshpande (amold@MICROSOFT.com):
> > Furthermore, the README does not give explicit examples which it should.
> Feel free to write some up and i'll put them in. 

I am trying!  I am trying!!

> > > 7. HOME directory:
> > > -----------------
> > > zsh sets the HOME directory if it's not already set. It uses
> > > the windows directory on win95, $HOMEDRIVE\$HOMEPATH on nt <4.0,
> > > and $USERPROFILE on NT 4.0 and higher.
> > > If ZSHDOTDIR is set, zsh sets home to "youdonthavehomeset". This
> > > is to avoid crashing in places where the shell expects a home directory.
> > > Picking a real default would defeat the purpose of not setting home.
> > > (that means you can set ZSHDOTDIR instead of HOME for your startup
> > files)
> > Well - what is the difference between these methods?
> You can set ZDOTDIR if you don't want the shell to set HOME
> (and you haven't defined one yourself.)
> This is because other unix ports may expect HOME to NOT be set
> (they use their installation directory or something).

"or something" - what about the zsh then?

> > What is the "windows directory" on Windows95
> > (ie how is this defined in a Windows setup)?
> c:\windows by default. or whatever directory you installed win95.

Does the zsh look explicitly into the directory "C:\WINDOWS" then?
If not then how does it determine this value?
What if I have installed both Windows95 and WindowsNT on my disk?
Which directory gets checked first then?
(This is not just a theoretical issue!)

> > Anyway - this is what I understand so far:
> > 
> > 	Windows95:     C:\WINDOWS\.zshrc
> > 	WindowsNT-3.x: $HOMEDRIVE\$HOMEPATH\.zshrc
> > 	WindowsNT-4.x: $USERPROFILE\.zshrc
> > 		       $ZDOTDIR\.zshrc
> > 		       $HOME\.zshrc
> > Is this correct now?  For WindowsNT-4.x -
> > in which order are the various locations checked?

Well, is the order of these checks correct or isn't it?  YES or NO?

> Remember that these rules apply only if don't set HOME. Since there is
> no /etc,  only the rules for locating files from $HOME are followed.

I remember that some incosistencies with the
manual had been discovered recently on this list.
So - what is the complete/correct set of rules here?

> 1. If ZDOTDIR is set, the shell will not set HOME. Since this may cause the
> shell to crash in various places, zsh sets home to a bogus value that gives
> you a clue about that went wrong, instead of crashing.

Now, this is a contradiction in itself.
Does the zsh set HOME now or doesn't it?

> 2. If ZDOTDIR is not set, and HOME is not set,
> then zsh sets home to the directories above.

This statement in unclear.  Does the zsh set HOME,
and if so, does it change its value to a list of dirs in turn,
stopping at the first dir where it can find a zshrc?

> > The value of a variable on Windows cannot be used as $VAR (I think)
> > but needs to be specified as %VAR% - and this is only possible in batch
> > files.
> > Right or wrong?
> the way you use a variable is a function of the shell you use.
> since you are using zsh, you use the zsh syntax. it has absolutely
> nothing to do with what operating system you are running.

On the contrary!  The OS determines the kind of setup I have to use.
And its syntax determines how I can access the value of variables.

And from the non-description it is still not clear to me where I would have to
set the variables HOMEDRIVE and HOMEPATH - therefore I do not know whether I
should set them with the autoexec.bat and whether I would have to use the
syntax of command.com; I hope this makes the problem more clear now.

I suppose that these variables are not set within the zshrc as
they are supposed to determine the location of the setup file.

> > I am looking forward to a concise but precise description ...
> you can:
> 1. read the README
> 2. read the changelog
> 3. email me.
> 4. read the source 

The README is very concise and not at all precise,
the changelog was pretty useless (as I remember),
and emailing you is what I keep doing as I hope
that this will be faster than reading the source.  ;-)

> I know there should be more comprehensive documentation of the quirks
> in this version, but i just haven't gotten around to it. sorry.

Well, this is your chance to have your info compiled by me.
But I wonder whether it wouldn't be easier to write it up
yourself in pseudo source style, eg like this:

	WindowsNT-4.x:
	if $HOME
	then test $HOME/.zshrc
	elsif ZDOTDIR
	then test $ZDOTDIR/.zshrc
	else test $USERPROFILE\.zshrc

I just need something like this.

Sven  [tempted to start reading the source
	- but too tired now at 4:15am]

RE: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Amol Deshpande]

> ----------
> From: 	'Sven Guckes'[SMTP:guckes@math.fu-berlin.de]
> Sent: 	Monday, September 14, 1998 4:53 PM
> To: 	ZShell Users List
> Subject: 	Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
> 
> Furthermore, the README does not give explicit examples which it should.
> 
Feel free to write some up and i'll put them in. 

> > 7. HOME directory:
> > -----------------
> > zsh sets the HOME directory if it's not already set. It uses
> > the windows directory on win95, $HOMEDRIVE\$HOMEPATH on nt <4.0,
> > and $USERPROFILE on NT 4.0 and higher.
> > If ZSHDOTDIR is set, zsh sets home to "youdonthavehomeset". This
> > is to avoid crashing in places where the shell expects a home directory.
> > Picking a real default would defeat the purpose of not setting home.
> > (that means you can set ZSHDOTDIR instead of HOME for your startup
> files)
> 
> Well - what is the difference between these methods?
> 
You can set ZDOTDIR if you don't want the shell to set HOME (and you haven't
defined one yourself.) This is because other unix ports may expect HOME to
NOT
be set (they use their installation directory or something).

> What is the "windows directory" on Windows95
> (ie how is this defined in a Windows setup)?
> 
c:\windows by default. or whatever directory you installed win95.


> Anyway - this is what I understand so far:
> 
> 	Windows95:     C:\WINDOWS\.zshrc
> 	WindowsNT-3.x: $HOMEDRIVE\$HOMEPATH\.zshrc
> 	WindowsNT-4.x: $USERPROFILE\.zshrc
> 		       $ZDOTDIR\.zshrc
> 		       $HOME\.zshrc
> 	 
> Is this correct now?  Can someone come up with a shorter description?
> 
> For WindowsNT-4.x - in which order are the various locations checked?
> 
Remember that these rules apply only if don't set HOME. Since there is
no /etc,  only the rules for locating files from $HOME are followed.

1. If ZDOTDIR is set, the shell will not set HOME. Since this may cause the
shell to crash in various places, zsh sets home to a bogus value that gives
you a clue about that went wrong, instead of crashing.

2. If ZDOTDIR is not set, and HOME is not set, then zsh sets home to the
directories
above.


> The value of a variable on Windows cannot be used as $VAR (I think)
> but needs to be specified as %VAR% - and this is only possible in batch
> files.
> Right or wrong?
> 
the way you use a variable is a function of the shell you use. since you are
using
zsh, you use the zsh syntax. it has absolutely nothing to do with what
operating
system you are running.


> I am looking forward to a concise but precise description and
> I would love to summarize the info I get - but I need answers.
> I think this should be possible somehow.
> Or do I have to deassemble the binary?
> 
you can:
1. read the README
2. read the changelog
3. email me.
4. read the source 

I know there should be more comprehensive documentation of the quirks in
this version, but i
just haven't gotten around to it. sorry.

-amol

> Sven
> 

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

['Sven Guckes']

Quoting Amol Deshpande (amold@MICROSOFT.com):
> There is no problem creating .zshrc on win9x.
> just use a real editor like vim :-) even notepad will do it in a pinch.
> or, copy zshrc .zshrc.

Sure - I don't have a problem with the editor (using vim, of course)
but I am simply not sure about its possible placements ("directory").
Furthermore, the README does not give explicit examples which it should.

And I always thought that the value of a variable on the DOS shell
is "%var%" and not "$var".  or has this changed with WindowsNT?

> 7. HOME directory:
> -----------------
> zsh sets the HOME directory if it's not already set. It uses
> the windows directory on win95, $HOMEDRIVE\$HOMEPATH on nt <4.0,
> and $USERPROFILE on NT 4.0 and higher.
> If ZSHDOTDIR is set, zsh sets home to "youdonthavehomeset". This
> is to avoid crashing in places where the shell expects a home directory.
> Picking a real default would defeat the purpose of not setting home.
> (that means you can set ZSHDOTDIR instead of HOME for your startup files)

Well - what is the difference between these methods?
What is the "windows directory" on Windows95
(ie how is this defined in a Windows setup)?

Anyway - this is what I understand so far:

	Windows95:     C:\WINDOWS\.zshrc
	WindowsNT-3.x: $HOMEDRIVE\$HOMEPATH\.zshrc
	WindowsNT-4.x: $USERPROFILE\.zshrc
		       $ZDOTDIR\.zshrc
		       $HOME\.zshrc
	 
Is this correct now?  Can someone come up with a shorter description?

For WindowsNT-4.x - in which order are the various locations checked?

The value of a variable on Windows cannot be used as $VAR (I think)
but needs to be specified as %VAR% - and this is only possible in batch files.
Right or wrong?

I am looking forward to a concise but precise description and
I would love to summarize the info I get - but I need answers.
I think this should be possible somehow.
Or do I have to deassemble the binary?

Sven

RE: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Amol Deshpande]

yes. i'll make the correction.
thanks,
-amol

> ----------
> From: 	Bart Schaefer[SMTP:schaefer@brasslantern.com]
> Sent: 	Monday, September 14, 1998 12:54 PM
> To: 	ZShell Users List
> Subject: 	Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
> 
> On Sep 14, 11:40am, Amol Deshpande wrote:
> > Subject: RE: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
> > 
> > If ZSHDOTDIR is set, zsh sets home to "youdonthavehomeset". This
> > is to avoid crashing in places where the shell expects a home directory.
> > Picking a real default would defeat the purpose of not setting home.
> > 
> > 
> > (that means you can set ZSHDOTDIR instead of HOME for your startup
> files)
> 
> That should say ZDOTDIR, shouldn't it?  -Not- ZSHDOTDIR?
> 

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Bart Schaefer]

On Sep 14, 11:40am, Amol Deshpande wrote:
> Subject: RE: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
> 
> If ZSHDOTDIR is set, zsh sets home to "youdonthavehomeset". This
> is to avoid crashing in places where the shell expects a home directory.
> Picking a real default would defeat the purpose of not setting home.
> 
> 
> (that means you can set ZSHDOTDIR instead of HOME for your startup files)

That should say ZDOTDIR, shouldn't it?  -Not- ZSHDOTDIR?

RE: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Amol Deshpande]

> ----------
> From: 	'Sven Guckes'[SMTP:guckes@math.fu-berlin.de]
> Sent: 	Monday, September 14, 1998 10:55 AM
> To: 	ZShell Users List
> Cc: 	amol@blarg.net
> Subject: 	Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
> 
> Quoting Bart Schaefer (schaefer@brasslantern.com):
> > zagzig[21] zcat zsh.exe.gz | strings -a | less +/zshrc
> 
> Actually, I tried just that - but I figured that it would not work
> as there is no directories /etc on Windows systems.  :-/
> 
> > So of course c:\zshrc isn't going to work; it's looking for .zshrc
> > (which prehaps you can't create on a Win95 machine because of the
> > silly 8.3 filename rule, though I'm pretty sure you can on NT).
> 
> Well, how could I be sure?  Actually, I find that using "zshrc" would
> be a nice workaround because of the "8.3" filename convention.
> 
There is no problem creating .zshrc on win9x. just use a real editor
like vim :-) even notepad will do it in a pinch.
or, copy zshrc .zshrc.


> > So you either need to create a c:\etc\zshrc (and zlogin and zshenv
> > and zlogout if you want) or find out what zsh thinks $HOME is set to
> > (by starting zsh and typing "echo $HOME")
> > and put files with names starting with a "." in there, if you can.
> 
> I'd rather look into a manual explaining this.  (hint hint ;-)
> 
from the README

7. HOME directory:
-----------------
zsh sets the HOME directory if it's not already set. It uses
the windows directory on win95, $HOMEDRIVE\$HOMEPATH on nt <4.0,
and $USERPROFILE on NT 4.0 and higher.

If ZSHDOTDIR is set, zsh sets home to "youdonthavehomeset". This
is to avoid crashing in places where the shell expects a home directory.
Picking a real default would defeat the purpose of not setting home.



(that means you can set ZSHDOTDIR instead of HOME for your startup files)

> > It appears, from further perusal of the strings output, that $HOMEDRIVE
> > and $HOMEPATH are used to generate part of the default $Path,
> > as is a variable $ZSHROOT that isn't used in unix zsh.
> 
> I understand that the following "filenames" should work then:
> 
>         %HOMEDRIVE%%HOMEPATH%/.zshrc
>         %HOME%/.zshrc
>         %ZDOTDIR%/.zshrc
> 
> Now, which order do these take?  Amol?
> 
> A rough summary of this can be read on
> http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/~guckes/zsh/windows.html
> 
> Sven
> 

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

['Sven Guckes']

Quoting Bart Schaefer (schaefer@brasslantern.com):
> zagzig[21] zcat zsh.exe.gz | strings -a | less +/zshrc

Actually, I tried just that - but I figured that it would not work
as there is no directories /etc on Windows systems.  :-/

> So of course c:\zshrc isn't going to work; it's looking for .zshrc
> (which prehaps you can't create on a Win95 machine because of the
> silly 8.3 filename rule, though I'm pretty sure you can on NT).

Well, how could I be sure?  Actually, I find that using "zshrc" would
be a nice workaround because of the "8.3" filename convention.

> So you either need to create a c:\etc\zshrc (and zlogin and zshenv
> and zlogout if you want) or find out what zsh thinks $HOME is set to
> (by starting zsh and typing "echo $HOME")
> and put files with names starting with a "." in there, if you can.

I'd rather look into a manual explaining this.  (hint hint ;-)

> It appears, from further perusal of the strings output, that $HOMEDRIVE
> and $HOMEPATH are used to generate part of the default $Path,
> as is a variable $ZSHROOT that isn't used in unix zsh.

I understand that the following "filenames" should work then:

        %HOMEDRIVE%%HOMEPATH%/.zshrc
        %HOME%/.zshrc
        %ZDOTDIR%/.zshrc

Now, which order do these take?  Amol?

A rough summary of this can be read on
http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/~guckes/zsh/windows.html

Sven

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Bart Schaefer]

On Sep 12,  7:43am, 'Sven Guckes' wrote:
} Subject: Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
}
} Quoting Brian Agnew (Brian.Agnew@saudibank.com):
} > >How do you install the zshrc on WindowsNT?
} > I've just stuck it in the root (C:/) directory. Seems to work fine.
} 
} I am told that neither c:\zshrc nor d:\zshrc works.

Exploratory surgery almost always yields useful results:

zagzig[21] zcat zsh.exe.gz | strings -a | less +/zshrc
.zshrc
/etc/zshrc
.zprofile
/etc/zprofile
.zshenv
/etc/zshenv
/etc/suid_profile
.profile
/etc/profile
path too long: %s
ZDOTDIR

and so forth.  So of course c:\zshrc isn't going to work; it's looking
for .zshrc (which prehaps you can't create on a Win95 machine because
of the silly 8.3 filename rule, though I'm pretty sure you can on NT).

So you either need to create a c:\etc\zshrc (and zlogin and zshenv and
zlogout if you want) or find out what zsh thinks $HOME is set to (by
starting zsh and typing "echo $HOME") and put files with names starting
with a "." in there, if you can.

It appears, from further perusal of the strings output, that $HOMEDRIVE
and $HOMEPATH are used to generate part of the default $Path, as is a
variable $ZSHROOT that isn't used in unix zsh.

-- 
Bart Schaefer                                 Brass Lantern Enterprises
http://www.well.com/user/barts              http://www.brasslantern.com

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

['Sven Guckes']

Hi!

Quoting Brian Agnew (Brian.Agnew@saudibank.com):
> >How do you install the zshrc on WindowsNT?
> I've just stuck it in the root (C:/) directory. Seems to work fine.

I am told that neither c:\zshrc nor d:\zshrc works.
Maybe it needs a reboot to work?  ;-)

Sven

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[ric hotchkiss]

Sven Guckes wrote:
> 
> Anyone using the win32 port of the zsh here?
> How do you install the zshrc on WindowsNT?
> I need to know the procedure as I had given
> the zsh.exe to someone who is eager to use it.
> 
> Sven  [still not using a WindowsNT machine]

Look at ftp://ftp.blarg.net/users/amol/zsh

Ric
--
 _____  ______   _____   _____ 
/ ____||  ___ \ | ___ \ / ____| Ric Hotchkiss IDSA         2000  Eastman  Drive
\____ \| |___) )|  _  /( (____  ric.hotchkiss@sdrc.com        Milford, OH 45150
|_____/|______/ |_| \_\ \_____| Implementation Specialist          513-576-2924

RE: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Amol Deshpande]

you can either set ZDOTDIR or copy a .zshrc  to $USERPROFILE or $HOME

> ----------
> From: 	Sven Guckes[SMTP:guckes@math.fu-berlin.de]
> Sent: 	Friday, September 11, 1998 9:41 AM
> To: 	ZShell Users List
> Subject: 	zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc
> 
> Anyone using the win32 port of the zsh here?
> How do you install the zshrc on WindowsNT?
> I need to know the procedure as I had given
> the zsh.exe to someone who is eager to use it.
> 
> Sven  [still not using a WindowsNT machine]
> 

Re: zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Stephen Rondeau]

> How do you install the zshrc on WindowsNT?
> I need to know the procedure as I had given
> the zsh.exe to someone who is eager to use it.

I've had luck with using a .zshenv, not .zshrc, file in 
%HOME%%HOMEPATH%.

Stephen Rondeau

zsh for win32 - installation of zshrc

[Sven Guckes]

Anyone using the win32 port of the zsh here?
How do you install the zshrc on WindowsNT?
I need to know the procedure as I had given
the zsh.exe to someone who is eager to use it.

Sven  [still not using a WindowsNT machine]