9fans - fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
@ 2004-03-08  9:28 Keith Nash
  2004-03-08 13:10 ` boyd, rounin
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: Keith Nash @ 2004-03-08  9:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

>     This is not LINUX!  This is Plan 9.  There are rules.  -boyd/walter

Victim of Dinsdale: "...and then he nailed my head to the floor.  There was nothing else he could do, to be fair.  He told me I'd broken the unwritten rule."
Interviewer: "What was that?"
Victim of Dinsdale: "He wouldn't tell me."



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  9:28 [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port Keith Nash
@ 2004-03-08 13:10 ` boyd, rounin
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: boyd, rounin @ 2004-03-08 13:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Victim of Dinsdale: "He was a cruel man, but fair."



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08 22:24                 ` Wes Kussmaul
@ 2004-03-09  9:24                   ` Charles Forsyth
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2004-03-09  9:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

>>I say let's all just use our public key (properly issued) and be done with 
>>all the inscrutable etiquette!

i'm afraid it's a common mistake, encouraged by 'orrible x.509, to suppose
`public key' should be preceded by the definite article.  the second common
mistake relates to `properly issued'; similar cause i think.

a splendid idea that has nearly been ruined by x.*



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08 19:25               ` Derek Fawcus
  2004-03-08 20:21                 ` Axel Belinfante
  2004-03-08 22:24                 ` Wes Kussmaul
@ 2004-03-09  1:51                 ` Kenji Okamoto
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Kenji Okamoto @ 2004-03-09  1:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> I had the impression that Japan was one of those cultures where names are
> of the form 'family given' vs 'given family'.  Is this correct?
> 
> If so,  then it can at times be difficult to know which name is the family
> name and which is the given one [1].  i.e. in the face of some people
> presenting their names in their 'natural' order and some presenting them
> in our 'natural' order.

There is a rule how to distinguish this, for an example, a member of this
list writes his name as
YAMANASHI Takeshi
here, he may be proud of being Japanese and probably wants to express
it by using formal expression of Japanese names.   In this case, please
remember his surname is written using capital letter only.
I write my name KenJi Okamoto, which is de-facto standard from the time
Japan accepted Western calture about 150 years ago.

Kenji



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08 14:09 ` Gorka Guardiola Múzquiz
  2004-03-08 14:13   ` David Presotto
  2004-03-08 14:45   ` boyd, rounin
@ 2004-03-09  1:29   ` Kenji Okamoto
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Kenji Okamoto @ 2004-03-09  1:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

>> kun = male diminuitive used by superiors to inferiors(e.g. at work I'm "Noah-kun")
> 
> I thought くん (kun) was also for colleages (for example for a colleage at university)
> Kenji what do you say?.

One of my friend in my youth said everybody as xxx-kun indicating some special
friendliness.   However, it depended on his special capability when he said so.
He was always said so with _smile_.   くん is usually attached from a senior 先輩.
It's not easy to use くん here.  You must be very careful when you use it.

Kenji



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08 20:40                   ` boyd, rounin
@ 2004-03-08 22:40                     ` 9nut
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: 9nut @ 2004-03-08 22:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> and know I'm wondering myself how to _pronounces_
> something all-caps, e.g. when meeting in person...

IGOR: Frederick Frankenstein?
FREDDY: Fron kon steen!
IGOR: Are you putting me on?
FREDDY: No, it's pronounced Fron konsteen.
IGOR: And do you also say Fro dereck?
FREDDY: No, Fred ereck.
IGOR: Why isn't it Frodereck Fronkon steen?
FREDDY: It's not.  It's Fredereck Fronkonsteen.
IGOR: I see.
FREDDY: You must be Igor.
IGOR: No, it's pronounced Aye gor.
FREDDY: But they told me it was Ee gor.
IGOR: Well, they were wrong then, weren't they?



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08 19:25               ` Derek Fawcus
  2004-03-08 20:21                 ` Axel Belinfante
@ 2004-03-08 22:24                 ` Wes Kussmaul
  2004-03-09  9:24                   ` Charles Forsyth
  2004-03-09  1:51                 ` Kenji Okamoto
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2004-03-08 22:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


I say let's all just use our public key (properly issued) and be done with 
all the inscrutable etiquette!

><clip> some people
>presenting their names in their 'natural' order and some presenting them
>in our 'natural' order.
>
>So one is sort of left having to use a full name!
>
>DF
>
>[1] Unless of course you recognise one or other of the names as being of a
>     particular type: family vs given





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08 20:21                 ` Axel Belinfante
  2004-03-08 20:26                   ` Axel Belinfante
  2004-03-08 20:40                   ` boyd, rounin
@ 2004-03-08 21:20                   ` Derek Fawcus
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Derek Fawcus @ 2004-03-08 21:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 09:21:42PM +0100, Axel Belinfante wrote:
> some international groups (communities, circles, whatever)[1] solve
> this ambiguity by customarily using all-caps for the family name.

I remember the imigration form at the Maldives.

"Fill in name,  and underline family name"

DF


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08 20:21                 ` Axel Belinfante
  2004-03-08 20:26                   ` Axel Belinfante
@ 2004-03-08 20:40                   ` boyd, rounin
  2004-03-08 22:40                     ` 9nut
  2004-03-08 21:20                   ` Derek Fawcus
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: boyd, rounin @ 2004-03-08 20:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Axel BELINFANTE

yup .fr:

    Boyd ROBERTS



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08 20:21                 ` Axel Belinfante
@ 2004-03-08 20:26                   ` Axel Belinfante
  2004-03-08 20:40                   ` boyd, rounin
  2004-03-08 21:20                   ` Derek Fawcus
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Axel Belinfante @ 2004-03-08 20:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

I wrote:
> some international groups (communities, circles, whatever)[1] solve
> this ambiguity by customarily using all-caps for the family name.

and know I'm wondering myself how to _pronounces_
something all-caps, e.g. when meeting in person...


> Axel BELINFANTE
> 
> [1] I know this at least holds for esperantists
> 
> > I had the impression that Japan was one of those cultures where names are
> > of the form 'family given' vs 'given family'.  Is this correct?
> > 
> > If so,  then it can at times be difficult to know which name is the family
> > name and which is the given one [1].  i.e. in the face of some people
> > presenting their names in their 'natural' order and some presenting them
> > in our 'natural' order.
> > 
> > So one is sort of left having to use a full name!
> > 
> > DF
> > 
> > [1] Unless of course you recognise one or other of the names as being of a
> >     particular type: family vs given


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08 19:25               ` Derek Fawcus
@ 2004-03-08 20:21                 ` Axel Belinfante
  2004-03-08 20:26                   ` Axel Belinfante
                                     ` (2 more replies)
  2004-03-08 22:24                 ` Wes Kussmaul
  2004-03-09  1:51                 ` Kenji Okamoto
  2 siblings, 3 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Axel Belinfante @ 2004-03-08 20:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

some international groups (communities, circles, whatever)[1] solve
this ambiguity by customarily using all-caps for the family name.

Axel BELINFANTE

[1] I know this at least holds for esperantists

> I had the impression that Japan was one of those cultures where names are
> of the form 'family given' vs 'given family'.  Is this correct?
> 
> If so,  then it can at times be difficult to know which name is the family
> name and which is the given one [1].  i.e. in the face of some people
> presenting their names in their 'natural' order and some presenting them
> in our 'natural' order.
> 
> So one is sort of left having to use a full name!
> 
> DF
> 
> [1] Unless of course you recognise one or other of the names as being of a
>     particular type: family vs given


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  6:30             ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  5:44               ` andrey mirtchovski
@ 2004-03-08 19:25               ` Derek Fawcus
  2004-03-08 20:21                 ` Axel Belinfante
                                   ` (2 more replies)
  1 sibling, 3 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Derek Fawcus @ 2004-03-08 19:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 03:30:07PM +0900, Kenji Okamoto wrote:
> If neccessary, please use Kenji or Kenji Okamoto, thank you.

I had the impression that Japan was one of those cultures where names are
of the form 'family given' vs 'given family'.  Is this correct?

If so,  then it can at times be difficult to know which name is the family
name and which is the given one [1].  i.e. in the face of some people
presenting their names in their 'natural' order and some presenting them
in our 'natural' order.

So one is sort of left having to use a full name!

DF

[1] Unless of course you recognise one or other of the names as being of a
    particular type: family vs given


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
@ 2004-03-08 16:57 Noah Evans
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Noah Evans @ 2004-03-08 16:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

:) No biggie, I bought a 3c589 for $3 so I could get the craptop to have network access under Plan 9. 

How different is an audigy from a normal soundblaster 16(like Plan 9 supports)? How hard would it be to do an emu10k1 driver?

Noah

----- Original Message -----
From: "boyd, rounin" <boyd@insultant.net>
Date: Monday, March 8, 2004 11:50 am
Subject: Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port

> > Any luck on the 3c574 pcmcia driver? hoshigatteru kara. 
> 
> nope, 'cos if i can't type, i can't hack.  so i don't hack.
> 
> i fixed the kdb stuff once, but ...
> 
> 



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08 16:39 Noah Evans
@ 2004-03-08 16:50 ` boyd, rounin
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: boyd, rounin @ 2004-03-08 16:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Any luck on the 3c574 pcmcia driver? hoshigatteru kara. 

nope, 'cos if i can't type, i can't hack.  so i don't hack.

i fixed the kdb stuff once, but ...



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08 16:22 ` boyd, rounin
@ 2004-03-08 16:40   ` imp123
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: imp123 @ 2004-03-08 16:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


q
David Jeffers
mailto: imp123@verizon.net


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
@ 2004-03-08 16:39 Noah Evans
  2004-03-08 16:50 ` boyd, rounin
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: Noah Evans @ 2004-03-08 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

:) Nope. 

Any luck on the 3c574 pcmcia driver? hoshigatteru kara. 

----- Original Message -----
From: "boyd, rounin" <boyd@insultant.net>
Date: Monday, March 8, 2004 11:22 am
Subject: Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port

> > Brief description of suffixes(I'm sure you know this boyd, this 
> is for
> other people, not to patronize you):
> 
> you don't know me very well ;)
> 
> > sama = gods, really honored folks (i.e. kami[god]-sama)
> 
> yes, go-chisousama deshita [de gozaimashita] is a good one
> when you leave a restaurant.  freaks 'em out.
> 
> kami is also 'divine' and 'paper' (but different kanji).
> 
> > chan = female diminuitive also works for boyfriends, children 
> and pets.
> 
> forgot about that one.
> 
> 



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08 13:44 Noah Evans
  2004-03-08 14:09 ` Gorka Guardiola Múzquiz
@ 2004-03-08 16:22 ` boyd, rounin
  2004-03-08 16:40   ` imp123
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: boyd, rounin @ 2004-03-08 16:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Brief description of suffixes(I'm sure you know this boyd, this is for
other people, not to patronize you):

you don't know me very well ;)

> sama = gods, really honored folks (i.e. kami[god]-sama)

yes, go-chisousama deshita [de gozaimashita] is a good one
when you leave a restaurant.  freaks 'em out.

kami is also 'divine' and 'paper' (but different kanji).

> chan = female diminuitive also works for boyfriends, children and pets.

forgot about that one.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08 14:13   ` David Presotto
@ 2004-03-08 14:46     ` boyd, rounin
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: boyd, rounin @ 2004-03-08 14:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Boyd forgot one, -ejit, as in Boyd-ejit

aye see you, jimmy!



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08 14:09 ` Gorka Guardiola Múzquiz
  2004-03-08 14:13   ` David Presotto
@ 2004-03-08 14:45   ` boyd, rounin
  2004-03-09  1:29   ` Kenji Okamoto
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: boyd, rounin @ 2004-03-08 14:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> I thought くん (kun) was also for colleages (for example for a colleage at
university)

right, when you're ~ 'equals'.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
@ 2004-03-08 14:20 Noah Evans
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Noah Evans @ 2004-03-08 14:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

It works that way too, but it implies a great deal of familiarity. But YMMV and Kenji will certainly give you a better explaination. 

Noah

----- Original Message -----
From: Gorka Guardiola Múzquiz <paurea@lsub.org>
Date: Monday, March 8, 2004 9:09 am
Subject: Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port

> > kun = male diminuitive used by superiors to inferiors(e.g. at 
> work I'm "Noah-kun")
> 
> I thought ?? (kun) was also for colleages (for example for a 
> colleage at university)
> Kenji what do you say?.
> 
> ???                        	
> 
>



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08 14:09 ` Gorka Guardiola Múzquiz
@ 2004-03-08 14:13   ` David Presotto
  2004-03-08 14:46     ` boyd, rounin
  2004-03-08 14:45   ` boyd, rounin
  2004-03-09  1:29   ` Kenji Okamoto
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: David Presotto @ 2004-03-08 14:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Boyd forgot one, -ejit, as in Boyd-ejit


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08 13:44 Noah Evans
@ 2004-03-08 14:09 ` Gorka Guardiola Múzquiz
  2004-03-08 14:13   ` David Presotto
                     ` (2 more replies)
  2004-03-08 16:22 ` boyd, rounin
  1 sibling, 3 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Gorka Guardiola Múzquiz @ 2004-03-08 14:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> kun = male diminuitive used by superiors to inferiors(e.g. at work I'm "Noah-kun")

I thought くん (kun) was also for colleages (for example for a colleage at university)
Kenji what do you say?.

ゴルカ				



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
@ 2004-03-08 13:44 Noah Evans
  2004-03-08 14:09 ` Gorka Guardiola Múzquiz
  2004-03-08 16:22 ` boyd, rounin
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Noah Evans @ 2004-03-08 13:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans



----- Original Message -----
From: "boyd, rounin" <boyd@insultant.net>
Date: Monday, March 8, 2004 8:07 am
Subject: Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port

> > Yes, but you can't expect people just to forget their cultural
> differences.
> > In Japan, addressing someone with their last name, but without a
> > "politeness" suffix is considered undignifying/rude/offensive 
> (take your
> pick).
> 
> depends on the situation.

Brief description of suffixes(I'm sure you know this boyd, this is for other people, not to patronize you):

sama = gods, really honored folks (i.e. kami[god]-sama)
san = normal polite suffix but inappropriate for teachers and medical doctors(always referred to as just "sensei")
kun = male diminuitive used by superiors to inferiors(e.g. at work I'm "Noah-kun")
chan = female diminuitive also works for boyfriends, children and pets.

using a last name without a suffix is disrespectful because it's something like saying "that guy roberts", meaning that you don't really care for the person. First names, on the other hand, are an indication of familiarity(and can also be rude if used in the wrong context[e.g. to bosses and superiors]). 


Noah



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  8:41 ` lucio
  2004-03-08  8:56   ` Kenji Okamoto
@ 2004-03-08 13:08   ` boyd, rounin
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: boyd, rounin @ 2004-03-08 13:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> I was wondering if Okamoto-san would be acceptable?

normally, yes.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  8:38 Tiit Lankots
  2004-03-08  8:41 ` lucio
@ 2004-03-08 13:07 ` boyd, rounin
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: boyd, rounin @ 2004-03-08 13:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Yes, but you can't expect people just to forget their cultural
differences.
> In Japan, addressing someone with their last name, but without a
> "politeness" suffix is considered undignifying/rude/offensive (take your
pick).

depends on the situation.

one kenji got all pissed off when i used -kun.

you could try 'omae' ;)



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  9:20                 ` 9nut
  2004-03-08  8:28                   ` lucio
@ 2004-03-08 13:01                   ` boyd, rounin
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: boyd, rounin @ 2004-03-08 13:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Seriously, I would think it onerous to expect everyone to live by *my*
> rules of etiquette or culture, given that this is an international
> medium and this forum has participants from all over the globe.

exactly.  adapting to a culture is hard.  living it is harder.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  8:37           ` David Tolpin
  2004-03-08  8:39             ` Charles Forsyth
@ 2004-03-08 10:05             ` Geoff Collyer
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Geoff Collyer @ 2004-03-08 10:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

mkconv converted makefiles to mkfiles and was distributed with old
versions of Unix mk.  You can find an rc version of it at
/sys/src/cmd/mk/mkconv.

mk -m used to generate a makefile from the current mkfile too.

An advantage of rewriting makefiles into mkfiles is that you can use
inclusion with '<' to drastically shorten the mkfile.  This is the
entire mkfile for the v7 shell:
---
</$objtype/mkfile

TARG=v7sh
OFILES=args.$O builtin.$O cmd.$O ctype.$O error.$O expand.$O fault.$O io.$O \
	macro.$O main.$O msg.$O name.$O print.$O service.$O stak.$O string.$O \
	word.$O xec.$O
HFILES=ctype.h defs.h mac.h mode.h name.h stak.h sym.h timeout.h
BIN=$home/bin/$objtype
CFLAGS = -w -DPLAN9 -D_POSIX_SOURCE -D_BSD_EXTENSION
CC=pcc -c
LD=pcc

</sys/src/cmd/mkone
---

Given that, `mk installall' will build it and install it for all your
supported architectures.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* RE: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  9:17     ` Kenji Okamoto
@ 2004-03-08  9:22       ` lucio
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: lucio @ 2004-03-08  9:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Or, if you like Dr. Okamoto.
> 
That's perfectly fine by me.  I don't think I'm likely to forget the
correct title.  Now if Kenji Arisawa were to state his preference, I
for one would be happy to put the issue to sleep.

++L



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  6:46                 ` Kenji Okamoto
@ 2004-03-08  9:22                   ` 9nut
  2004-03-08  8:24                     ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
  2004-03-08  8:49                     ` Kenji Okamoto
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: 9nut @ 2004-03-08  9:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Awawawa,

What does this mean?
Thanks.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  5:44               ` andrey mirtchovski
  2004-03-08  6:46                 ` Kenji Okamoto
@ 2004-03-08  9:20                 ` 9nut
  2004-03-08  8:28                   ` lucio
  2004-03-08 13:01                   ` boyd, rounin
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: 9nut @ 2004-03-08  9:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

>>> i followed your instructions to Okamoto almost exactly (had to fix for
>>> the botched URL you gave him).
>> 
>> Andrey, as I said before, I don't want to be called just Okamoto.
>> Here in Japan, it means you are downlooking me.  If neccessary,
>> please use Kenji or Kenji Okamoto, thank you.
>> 
>> Kenji
> 
> Looks like two strikes:
> 
> 	https://lists.cse.psu.edu/archives/9fans/2003-June/024901.html
> 
> One more and i'm out.
> 
> I'm sincerely sorry I'm not well acquainted with Japanese culture.
> I'd like to remedy that in the future.  For now, please cope with me.
> 
> andrey

Andrey, you can call me anything you want so long as you don't call me late
for dinner ☺

Seriously, I would think it onerous to expect everyone to live by *my*
rules of etiquette or culture, given that this is an international
medium and this forum has participants from all over the globe.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* RE: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  8:56   ` Kenji Okamoto
@ 2004-03-08  9:17     ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  9:22       ` lucio
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: Kenji Okamoto @ 2004-03-08  9:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

>> I was wondering if Okamoto-san would be acceptable?
> 
> I love Kenji, here.

Or, if you like Dr. Okamoto.☺☺

Kenji



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* RE: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  8:41 ` lucio
@ 2004-03-08  8:56   ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  9:17     ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08 13:08   ` boyd, rounin
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: Kenji Okamoto @ 2004-03-08  8:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> I was wondering if Okamoto-san would be acceptable?

I love Kenji, here.

Kenji



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* RE: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
@ 2004-03-08  8:53 Tiit Lankots
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Tiit Lankots @ 2004-03-08  8:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> >> Awawawa,

(a) oh dear?
(b) whoopsy-daisies?


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  8:24                     ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
@ 2004-03-08  8:51                       ` Kenji Okamoto
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Kenji Okamoto @ 2004-03-08  8:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Also, what's its kanji? ☺

(utf-8) "あわわわ", there is no kanji for it.
It comes deep from Japanese, can write only by Kana.

Kenji



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* RE: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
@ 2004-03-08  8:49 Tiit Lankots
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Tiit Lankots @ 2004-03-08  8:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> I was wondering if Okamoto-san would be acceptable?

My guess would be that it covers from K. Okamoto to mr. Okamoto.
The problem with Japanese is that it does not quite map to
English. To me, as I'm talking a language considerably different from English,
too, it's sometimes easier :)


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  9:22                   ` 9nut
  2004-03-08  8:24                     ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
@ 2004-03-08  8:49                     ` Kenji Okamoto
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Kenji Okamoto @ 2004-03-08  8:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

>> Awawawa,

got into panic by facing unexpected response.

Kenji



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  6:19                 ` David Tolpin
@ 2004-03-08  8:45                   ` Charles Forsyth
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2004-03-08  8:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

there is an ancient Unix sh program somewhere that helps convert makefiles
to mkfiles.  unfortunately, i've lost it, but it might turn up.  i'm not sure it would be much
help anyhow with `modern' gmake/nmake/imake/whymake mkfiles.
someone else might have it though, which is why i mention it.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* RE: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  8:38 Tiit Lankots
@ 2004-03-08  8:41 ` lucio
  2004-03-08  8:56   ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08 13:08   ` boyd, rounin
  2004-03-08 13:07 ` boyd, rounin
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: lucio @ 2004-03-08  8:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Yes, but you can't expect people just to forget their cultural differences.
> In Japan, addressing someone with their last name, but without a
> "politeness" suffix is considered undignifying/rude/offensive (take your pick).
> 
I was wondering if Okamoto-san would be acceptable?

++L



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  8:37           ` David Tolpin
@ 2004-03-08  8:39             ` Charles Forsyth
  2004-03-08 10:05             ` Geoff Collyer
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2004-03-08  8:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 245 bytes --]

>> perhaps, but this way we get all the architectures

i was referring to your (useful) use of ape/pcc not gcc;
had you used gcc it wouldn't have given a port to other
plan 9 architectures.  in other words, i think you did the right thing!

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2244 bytes --]

From: David Tolpin <dvd@davidashen.net>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:37:12 +0400 (AMT)
Message-ID: <200403080837.i288bCDa084442@adat.davidashen.net>

> perhaps, but this way we get all the architectures

I will do the 'normal' port, that is, with mk (but still pcc).
I just wanted to realize what's needed. I didn't find an make->mk
automation tool, and am going to write it. Is it against the
religion too?

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* RE: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
@ 2004-03-08  8:38 Tiit Lankots
  2004-03-08  8:41 ` lucio
  2004-03-08 13:07 ` boyd, rounin
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Tiit Lankots @ 2004-03-08  8:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> > Seriously, I would think it onerous to expect everyone to 
> live by *my*
> > rules of etiquette or culture, given that this is an international
> > medium and this forum has participants from all over the globe.

Yes, but you can't expect people just to forget their cultural differences.
In Japan, addressing someone with their last name, but without a
"politeness" suffix is considered undignifying/rude/offensive (take your pick).

So a Japanese reader will, while perfrectly understanding that this wasn't
the westerner's intent, still feel disturbed. This kind of problem can be avoided.

Tiit


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  8:31         ` Charles Forsyth
@ 2004-03-08  8:37           ` David Tolpin
  2004-03-08  8:39             ` Charles Forsyth
  2004-03-08 10:05             ` Geoff Collyer
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: David Tolpin @ 2004-03-08  8:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> perhaps, but this way we get all the architectures

I will do the 'normal' port, that is, with mk (but still pcc).
I just wanted to realize what's needed. I didn't find an make->mk
automation tool, and am going to write it. Is it against the
religion too?


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  5:48         ` David Tolpin
  2004-03-08  5:08           ` andrey mirtchovski
@ 2004-03-08  8:33           ` Charles Forsyth
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2004-03-08  8:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 349 bytes --]

it's usually not too hard and once set up it's usually
fairly easy to maintain.  it has the advantage that all
architectures can be generated at once (ie, not just 386).

that's far from saying that you must be the one to do it;
i don't see why you should if it's not important to you.
if it's that useful someone else will do it eventually.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2392 bytes --]

From: David Tolpin <dvd@davidashen.net>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:48:40 +0400 (AMT)
Message-ID: <200403080548.i285meSD083604@adat.davidashen.net>

>      This is not LINUX!  This is Plan 9.  There are rules.  -boyd/walter

Now, when the code is working, either  the poster of the remark,
or any other volunteer, is welcome to re-arrange and rewrite the
make process. 

What would be the non-religious part of benefit of doing that?
Would it help to merge with new versions of graphviz (the current
is 1.12, post on March 1st)

David

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  4:51       ` andrey mirtchovski
  2004-03-08  6:14         ` David Tolpin
@ 2004-03-08  8:31         ` Charles Forsyth
  2004-03-08  8:37           ` David Tolpin
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2004-03-08  8:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 52 bytes --]

perhaps, but this way we get all the architectures

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 1895 bytes --]

From: andrey mirtchovski <mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:51:22 -0700
Message-ID: <d0e27d8c6e585688353d0ebd23c96d91@plan9.ucalgary.ca>

> ape/psh
> 9configure
> 9make

for non-gui stuff you can also download the gcc 3.0 port and use
gnu/gsh.  graphviz used to compile relatively fine with it a year ago and
configure scripts kind of work with it.  would've saved you some time.

andrey

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  9:20                 ` 9nut
@ 2004-03-08  8:28                   ` lucio
  2004-03-08 13:01                   ` boyd, rounin
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: lucio @ 2004-03-08  8:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Seriously, I would think it onerous to expect everyone to live by *my*
> rules of etiquette or culture, given that this is an international
> medium and this forum has participants from all over the globe.

I share the feeling, at the same time I believe that explicitly
expressed requests should be accepted or equally explicitly rejected.

The specific instance where there are two Kenjis but the surname (?)
may not be used alone to differentiate them, is just one of those
coincidences one would gladly do without :-)

++L



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  9:22                   ` 9nut
@ 2004-03-08  8:24                     ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
  2004-03-08  8:51                       ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  8:49                     ` Kenji Okamoto
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: Fco.J.Ballesteros @ 2004-03-08  8:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 29 bytes --]

Also, what's its kanji? ☺

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 1663 bytes --]

From: 9nut@9netics.com
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 01:22:25 -0800
Message-ID: <235a6d52779a7bee6b29ac3ef70b75dd@9netics.com>

> Awawawa,

What does this mean?
Thanks.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  5:44               ` andrey mirtchovski
@ 2004-03-08  6:46                 ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  9:22                   ` 9nut
  2004-03-08  9:20                 ` 9nut
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: Kenji Okamoto @ 2004-03-08  6:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Awawawa,

I didn't expect such a comment, Andrey.
I just wanted to let you and others know, please don't call me
just Okamoto, if you are not intending to lookdown myself.

Kenji



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  5:25           ` andrey mirtchovski
@ 2004-03-08  6:30             ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  5:44               ` andrey mirtchovski
  2004-03-08 19:25               ` Derek Fawcus
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Kenji Okamoto @ 2004-03-08  6:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> i followed your instructions to Okamoto almost exactly (had to fix for
> the botched URL you gave him).

Andrey, as I said before, I don't want to be called just Okamoto.
Here in Japan, it means you are downlooking me.  If neccessary,
please use Kenji or Kenji Okamoto, thank you.

Kenji



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  6:23           ` Kenji Okamoto
@ 2004-03-08  6:25             ` David Tolpin
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: David Tolpin @ 2004-03-08  6:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

>
> The problem is that you assumed your configure will work
> on Plan 9 environment with/without ape, but it was not written
> for it, which means it doesn't work.   Do you really have working
> version for Plan 9?

Yes, I do. I never assumed that it would work without ape.
You have to launch ape/psh before invoking the scripts.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  6:14         ` David Tolpin
@ 2004-03-08  6:23           ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  6:25             ` David Tolpin
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: Kenji Okamoto @ 2004-03-08  6:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

I have no offense to you, however,....

> 1) I wanted to know how well ape works.
> 2) I didn't want dependencies between ports.
> 3) That would definitely make transition to native tools
> more remote.

Probably, you'd know there may be many more powerful
persons around the world, and also here...   This may be
the point what I've been feeling why you speaks so much.

The problem is that you assumed your configure will work
on Plan 9 environment with/without ape, but it was not written
for it, which means it doesn't work.   Do you really have working
version for Plan 9?

Kenji



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  6:11               ` dbailey27
  2004-03-08  5:32                 ` andrey mirtchovski
@ 2004-03-08  6:19                 ` David Tolpin
  2004-03-08  8:45                   ` Charles Forsyth
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: David Tolpin @ 2004-03-08  6:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Should you rewrite scan.l in lex, too? Yes. 
>
> Or at least remove cleaning it from the makefile so
> you don't screw your users.

OK. Added to TODO list.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  5:08           ` andrey mirtchovski
  2004-03-08  6:02             ` dbailey27
  2004-03-08  6:12             ` David Tolpin
@ 2004-03-08  6:16             ` David Tolpin
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: David Tolpin @ 2004-03-08  6:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> > What would be the non-religious part of benefit of doing that?
> > Would it help to merge with new versions of graphviz (the current
> > is 1.12, post on March 1st)
>
> firstly you replace:

Not how, what for?


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  4:55       ` andrey mirtchovski
@ 2004-03-08  6:16         ` David Tolpin
  2004-03-08  5:25           ` andrey mirtchovski
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: David Tolpin @ 2004-03-08  6:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> btw, should we send you bug reports on this list?

You can send them to me directly.

> i have this problem compiling it:
>
> 	# 9make
> 	No suffix or % pattern list.
> 	make  all-recursive
> 	No suffix or % pattern list.
> 	Making all in cdt
> 	Making all in agraph
> 	105: lex /tmp/graphviz-1.10/agraph/scan.l

What for did you run 'make distclean'?  scan.l is written
in flex. AT&T includes scan.c into the distribution on purpose.

Unless scan.l is rewritten in lex, scan.c is needed.

Or, flex should be properly ported to Plan9.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  4:51       ` andrey mirtchovski
@ 2004-03-08  6:14         ` David Tolpin
  2004-03-08  6:23           ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  8:31         ` Charles Forsyth
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: David Tolpin @ 2004-03-08  6:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> > ape/psh
> > 9configure
> > 9make
>
> for non-gui stuff you can also download the gcc 3.0 port and use
> gnu/gsh.  graphviz used to compile relatively fine with it a year ago and
> configure scripts kind of work with it.  would've saved you some time.

1) I wanted to know how well ape works.
2) I didn't want dependencies between ports.
3) That would definitely make transition to native tools
more remote.

David


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  5:08           ` andrey mirtchovski
  2004-03-08  6:02             ` dbailey27
@ 2004-03-08  6:12             ` David Tolpin
  2004-03-08  6:11               ` dbailey27
  2004-03-08  6:16             ` David Tolpin
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: David Tolpin @ 2004-03-08  6:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> > Now, when the code is working, either  the poster of the remark,
> > or any other volunteer, is welcome to re-arrange and rewrite the
> > make process. 
>
> the code isn't working.

Only because you run 'make clean'.  graphviz distribution includes
scan.c generated from scan.l (from research.att.com, not my port),
because scan.l requires flex, not lex. Should I rewrite scan.l
in lex too?

> secondly you replace:

In what respect will it make the program better?


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  6:12             ` David Tolpin
@ 2004-03-08  6:11               ` dbailey27
  2004-03-08  5:32                 ` andrey mirtchovski
  2004-03-08  6:19                 ` David Tolpin
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: dbailey27 @ 2004-03-08  6:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: dvd, 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 130 bytes --]

Should you rewrite scan.l in lex, too? Yes. 

Or at least remove cleaning it from the makefile so
you don't screw your users.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2914 bytes --]

From: David Tolpin <dvd@davidashen.net>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:12:48 +0400 (AMT)
Message-ID: <200403080612.i286CmXb083675@adat.davidashen.net>

> > Now, when the code is working, either  the poster of the remark,
> > or any other volunteer, is welcome to re-arrange and rewrite the
> > make process. 
>
> the code isn't working.

Only because you run 'make clean'.  graphviz distribution includes
scan.c generated from scan.l (from research.att.com, not my port),
because scan.l requires flex, not lex. Should I rewrite scan.l
in lex too?

> secondly you replace:

In what respect will it make the program better?

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  5:08           ` andrey mirtchovski
@ 2004-03-08  6:02             ` dbailey27
  2004-03-08  6:12             ` David Tolpin
  2004-03-08  6:16             ` David Tolpin
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: dbailey27 @ 2004-03-08  6:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mirtchov, 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 38 bytes --]

then you replace
	pcc

with:
	8c

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 3168 bytes --]

From: andrey mirtchovski <mirtchov@cpsc.ucalgary.ca>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:08:37 -0700
Message-ID: <7a682bfdaa722f04b826e3b3851a7a28@plan9.ucalgary.ca>

>>      This is not LINUX!  This is Plan 9.  There are rules.  -boyd/walter
> 
> Now, when the code is working, either  the poster of the remark,
> or any other volunteer, is welcome to re-arrange and rewrite the
> make process. 

the code isn't working.

> 
> What would be the non-religious part of benefit of doing that?
> Would it help to merge with new versions of graphviz (the current
> is 1.12, post on March 1st)

firstly you replace:

	ape/psh
	9configure
	9make

with:

	plan9% mk

secondly you replace:
	
	source='refstr.c' object='refstr.lo' libtool=yes  depfile='.deps/refstr.Plo' 
          tmpdepfile='.deps/refstr.TPlo'  depmode=none /bin/sh /tmp/graphviz-1.10/depcomp  /bin/sh 
          ../libtool --mode=compile cc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I/tmp/graphviz-1.10/agraph -I..  
          -I/tmp/graphviz-1.10/cdt  -I/usr/local/include  -D_BSD_EXTENSION=1 -A -c -o refstr.lo `test 
          -f refstr.c || echo '/tmp/graphviz-1.10/agraph/'`refstr.c

with:

	pcc -I. -Ijpeg -Ipng -Izlib -B -p -c -DPLAN9 -DHAVE_CONFIG_H af_unix.c

andrey

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  5:04       ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  5:09         ` boyd, rounin
@ 2004-03-08  5:48         ` David Tolpin
  2004-03-08  5:08           ` andrey mirtchovski
  2004-03-08  8:33           ` Charles Forsyth
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: David Tolpin @ 2004-03-08  5:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

>      This is not LINUX!  This is Plan 9.  There are rules.  -boyd/walter

Now, when the code is working, either  the poster of the remark,
or any other volunteer, is welcome to re-arrange and rewrite the
make process. 

What would be the non-religious part of benefit of doing that?
Would it help to merge with new versions of graphviz (the current
is 1.12, post on March 1st)

David


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  6:30             ` Kenji Okamoto
@ 2004-03-08  5:44               ` andrey mirtchovski
  2004-03-08  6:46                 ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  9:20                 ` 9nut
  2004-03-08 19:25               ` Derek Fawcus
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2004-03-08  5:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

>> i followed your instructions to Okamoto almost exactly (had to fix for
>> the botched URL you gave him).
> 
> Andrey, as I said before, I don't want to be called just Okamoto.
> Here in Japan, it means you are downlooking me.  If neccessary,
> please use Kenji or Kenji Okamoto, thank you.
> 
> Kenji

Looks like two strikes:

	https://lists.cse.psu.edu/archives/9fans/2003-June/024901.html

One more and i'm out.

I'm sincerely sorry I'm not well acquainted with Japanese culture.
I'd like to remedy that in the future.  For now, please cope with me.

andrey



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  6:11               ` dbailey27
@ 2004-03-08  5:32                 ` andrey mirtchovski
  2004-03-08  6:19                 ` David Tolpin
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2004-03-08  5:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Should you rewrite scan.l in lex, too? Yes. 
> 
> Or at least remove cleaning it from the makefile so
> you don't screw your users.

<bart>but, but but but but!</bart>

configure is there exactly for that purpose, right?  to catch if the
damn thing is there or not!  otherwise why go through the pain of
running it at all?

have you noticed how the configure script takes longer to
complete than the compilation phase?  :)



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  4:40   ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  4:55     ` boyd, rounin
  2004-03-08  4:59     ` boyd, rounin
@ 2004-03-08  5:31     ` David Tolpin
  2004-03-08  4:51       ` andrey mirtchovski
  2004-03-08  4:55       ` andrey mirtchovski
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: David Tolpin @ 2004-03-08  5:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> by the way, configure doesn't work for me.

configure is a bourne shell script.

> complains wrong executable suffix...

It needs psh.

hget://www.graphviz.org/pub/graphviz/ARCHIVE/graphviz-1.10.tar.gz|gunzip|tar x
cd graphviz-1.10
hget http://ftp.davidashen.net/misc/graphviz-9patch.tbz|bunzip2|tar xT
ape/psh
9configure
9make

to build the binaries,

dotneato/dot -Tps graphs/directed/crazy.dot -o crazy.ps
page crazy.ps

To view the result.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  5:21             ` Kenji Okamoto
@ 2004-03-08  5:30               ` boyd, rounin
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: boyd, rounin @ 2004-03-08  5:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Of couse, s/wright/right/ you know, as usual.☺

wakatta



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  6:16         ` David Tolpin
@ 2004-03-08  5:25           ` andrey mirtchovski
  2004-03-08  6:30             ` Kenji Okamoto
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2004-03-08  5:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


> What for did you run 'make distclean'?  scan.l is written
> in flex. AT&T includes scan.c into the distribution on purpose.

i followed your instructions to Okamoto almost exactly (had to fix for
the botched URL you gave him).



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  5:18           ` Kenji Okamoto
@ 2004-03-08  5:21             ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  5:30               ` boyd, rounin
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: Kenji Okamoto @ 2004-03-08  5:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Of course, those two lines are wright!

Of couse, s/wright/right/ you know, as usual.☺

Kenji



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  5:09         ` boyd, rounin
@ 2004-03-08  5:18           ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  5:21             ` Kenji Okamoto
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: Kenji Okamoto @ 2004-03-08  5:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 93 bytes --]

Of course, those two lines are wright!
However, still remains a phrase "however".

Kenji

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2235 bytes --]

From: "boyd, rounin" <boyd@insultant.net>
To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 06:09:37 +0100
Message-ID: <049c01c404cb$8e9e2ea0$67844051@SOMA>

code it in ken C.

as for money:  we all need to pay the rent.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  5:04       ` Kenji Okamoto
@ 2004-03-08  5:09         ` boyd, rounin
  2004-03-08  5:18           ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  5:48         ` David Tolpin
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: boyd, rounin @ 2004-03-08  5:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

code it in ken C.

as for money:  we all need to pay the rent.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  5:48         ` David Tolpin
@ 2004-03-08  5:08           ` andrey mirtchovski
  2004-03-08  6:02             ` dbailey27
                               ` (2 more replies)
  2004-03-08  8:33           ` Charles Forsyth
  1 sibling, 3 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2004-03-08  5:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

>>      This is not LINUX!  This is Plan 9.  There are rules.  -boyd/walter
> 
> Now, when the code is working, either  the poster of the remark,
> or any other volunteer, is welcome to re-arrange and rewrite the
> make process. 

the code isn't working.

> 
> What would be the non-religious part of benefit of doing that?
> Would it help to merge with new versions of graphviz (the current
> is 1.12, post on March 1st)

firstly you replace:

	ape/psh
	9configure
	9make

with:

	plan9% mk

secondly you replace:
	
	source='refstr.c' object='refstr.lo' libtool=yes  depfile='.deps/refstr.Plo' 
          tmpdepfile='.deps/refstr.TPlo'  depmode=none /bin/sh /tmp/graphviz-1.10/depcomp  /bin/sh 
          ../libtool --mode=compile cc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I/tmp/graphviz-1.10/agraph -I..  
          -I/tmp/graphviz-1.10/cdt  -I/usr/local/include  -D_BSD_EXTENSION=1 -A -c -o refstr.lo `test 
          -f refstr.c || echo '/tmp/graphviz-1.10/agraph/'`refstr.c

with:

	pcc -I. -Ijpeg -Ipng -Izlib -B -p -c -DPLAN9 -DHAVE_CONFIG_H af_unix.c

andrey



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  4:59     ` boyd, rounin
@ 2004-03-08  5:07       ` George Michaelson
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: George Michaelson @ 2004-03-08  5:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans; +Cc: boyd


I'm yet to feel (a) either insulted, or (b) that the insult was not justified
when people tell me to piss off.

speaking as a non-plan9 contributer...

-George


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  4:55     ` boyd, rounin
@ 2004-03-08  5:04       ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  5:09         ` boyd, rounin
  2004-03-08  5:48         ` David Tolpin
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Kenji Okamoto @ 2004-03-08  5:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

>      This is not LINUX!  This is Plan 9.  There are rules.  -boyd/walter

I know what you want to say, I believe.
However, it has passed more than several years, and we got very few
native programms for Plan 9.    Furthermore, you demand cash based
on a older business model of open-source movements.  If we could
get money, it's better of course.   Anyway, I think your post includes
very important and deep thought point against the today's movement.
However, I'll repeat again, you are targetting wrong!

Kenji



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  4:40   ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  4:55     ` boyd, rounin
@ 2004-03-08  4:59     ` boyd, rounin
  2004-03-08  5:07       ` George Michaelson
  2004-03-08  5:31     ` David Tolpin
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: boyd, rounin @ 2004-03-08  4:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Don't insult a person who has contributed to Plan 9 community, boyd.

i got the 1st ammendment & la liberté d'expression on my side, so ...



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  5:31     ` David Tolpin
  2004-03-08  4:51       ` andrey mirtchovski
@ 2004-03-08  4:55       ` andrey mirtchovski
  2004-03-08  6:16         ` David Tolpin
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2004-03-08  4:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

btw, should we send you bug reports on this list?

i have this problem compiling it:

	# 9make
	No suffix or % pattern list.
	make  all-recursive
	No suffix or % pattern list.
	Making all in cdt
	Making all in agraph
	105: lex /tmp/graphviz-1.10/agraph/scan.l
	(Warning) Invalid request %x comment
	106: (Warning) Invalid request %x qstring
	108: (Warning) Undefined start condition comment
	108: (Warning) Undefined start condition qstring
	110: (Warning) Undefined start condition comment
	123: (Warning) Non-portable Character Class
	123: (Warning) Non-portable Character Class
	124: (Warning) Non-portable Character Class
	126: (Warning) Undefined start condition qstring
	127: (Warning) Undefined start condition qstring
	128: (Warning) Undefined start condition qstring
	(Error) Too many transitions 
	Try using %a num
	*** Error code 1
	
	Stop.
	*** Error code 1
	
	Stop.
	*** Error code 1
	
	Stop.
	# 

andrey


>> by the way, configure doesn't work for me.
> 
> configure is a bourne shell script.
> 
>> complains wrong executable suffix...
> 
> It needs psh.
> 
> hget://www.graphviz.org/pub/graphviz/ARCHIVE/graphviz-1.10.tar.gz|gunzip|tar x
> cd graphviz-1.10
> hget http://ftp.davidashen.net/misc/graphviz-9patch.tbz|bunzip2|tar xT
> ape/psh
> 9configure
> 9make
> 
> to build the binaries,
> 
> dotneato/dot -Tps graphs/directed/crazy.dot -o crazy.ps
> page crazy.ps
> 
> To view the result.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  4:40   ` Kenji Okamoto
@ 2004-03-08  4:55     ` boyd, rounin
  2004-03-08  5:04       ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  4:59     ` boyd, rounin
  2004-03-08  5:31     ` David Tolpin
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: boyd, rounin @ 2004-03-08  4:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Don't insult a person who has contributed to Plan 9 community, boyd.

contributed?  cat /dev/noise

no,

     This is not LINUX!  This is Plan 9.  There are rules.  -boyd/walter

"the nail that sticks up will be hammered down" -- not in this lifetime,
homes.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-08  5:31     ` David Tolpin
@ 2004-03-08  4:51       ` andrey mirtchovski
  2004-03-08  6:14         ` David Tolpin
  2004-03-08  8:31         ` Charles Forsyth
  2004-03-08  4:55       ` andrey mirtchovski
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2004-03-08  4:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> ape/psh
> 9configure
> 9make

for non-gui stuff you can also download the gcc 3.0 port and use
gnu/gsh.  graphviz used to compile relatively fine with it a year ago and
configure scripts kind of work with it.  would've saved you some time.

andrey



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-05 23:06 ` boyd, rounin
@ 2004-03-08  4:40   ` Kenji Okamoto
  2004-03-08  4:55     ` boyd, rounin
                       ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: Kenji Okamoto @ 2004-03-08  4:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "David Tolpin" <dvd@davidashen.net>
>> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu>
>> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 11:23 PM
>> Subject: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
> 
> yup, 100% agreement.

Don't insult a person who has contributed to Plan 9 community, boyd.

Yes, it's better to write native programs for Plan 9.
It, however, usually use up his/her full-time work, because it's harder
to learn new ideas than to use such well known ones.

Your gun should target other kind of persons...

by the way, configure doesn't work for me.
complains wrong executable suffix...

Kenji



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-06  1:47 ` David Presotto
@ 2004-03-06  6:23   ` David Tolpin
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 78+ messages in thread
From: David Tolpin @ 2004-03-06  6:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> check the links on additional software.

Thank you for the link; one correction, if possible.  I am not David
Ashen, I am David Tolpin. Davida-shen (accent on the last syllable)
means in Armenian 'built by David', that's why the domain name. And
no, i'm not Armenian, just happen to live here.

David Tolpin


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-05 22:30 David Tolpin
@ 2004-03-06  1:47 ` David Presotto
  2004-03-06  6:23   ` David Tolpin
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: David Presotto @ 2004-03-06  1:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 39 bytes --]

check the links on additional software.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2835 bytes --]

From: David Tolpin <dvd@davidashen.net>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Cc: dvd@adat.davidashen.net
Subject: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 02:30:01 +0400 (AMT)
Message-ID: <200403052230.i25MU198066662@adat.davidashen.net>

I'm sorry for the empty message, have done something wrong.

Hi,

I've made an ape port of graphviz. dot and neato are working (the generated
Postscript and SVG is the same as on other platforms, just better). I am
not sure it won't be affected by setup discrepancies, but have done my best
to make building easy.

Execute

hget://www.graphviz.org/pub/graphviz/ARCHIVE/graphviz-1.10.tar.gz|gunzip|tar x
cd graphviz-1.10
hget http://ftp.davidashen.net/misc/graphviz-9patch.tbz|bunzip2|tar xT
ape/psh
9configure
9make

to build the binaries,

dotneato/dot -Tps graphs/directed/crazy.dot -o crazy.ps
page crazy.ps

To view the result.

graphviz-plan9-diff.ed

contains differences between original grapviz-1.10 and the ported
version. I tried to touch as little as possible. 


David Tolpin
http://davidashen.net/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
  2004-03-05 22:23 David Tolpin
@ 2004-03-05 23:06 ` boyd, rounin
  2004-03-08  4:40   ` Kenji Okamoto
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: boyd, rounin @ 2004-03-05 23:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Tolpin" <dvd@davidashen.net>
> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 11:23 PM
> Subject: [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port

yup, 100% agreement.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
@ 2004-03-05 22:30 David Tolpin
  2004-03-06  1:47 ` David Presotto
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: David Tolpin @ 2004-03-05 22:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans; +Cc: dvd

I'm sorry for the empty message, have done something wrong.

Hi,

I've made an ape port of graphviz. dot and neato are working (the generated
Postscript and SVG is the same as on other platforms, just better). I am
not sure it won't be affected by setup discrepancies, but have done my best
to make building easy.

Execute

hget://www.graphviz.org/pub/graphviz/ARCHIVE/graphviz-1.10.tar.gz|gunzip|tar x
cd graphviz-1.10
hget http://ftp.davidashen.net/misc/graphviz-9patch.tbz|bunzip2|tar xT
ape/psh
9configure
9make

to build the binaries,

dotneato/dot -Tps graphs/directed/crazy.dot -o crazy.ps
page crazy.ps

To view the result.

graphviz-plan9-diff.ed

contains differences between original grapviz-1.10 and the ported
version. I tried to touch as little as possible. 


David Tolpin
http://davidashen.net/



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

* [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port
@ 2004-03-05 22:23 David Tolpin
  2004-03-05 23:06 ` boyd, rounin
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 78+ messages in thread
From: David Tolpin @ 2004-03-05 22:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 78+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2004-03-09  9:24 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 78+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2004-03-08  9:28 [9fans] graphviz-1.10 port Keith Nash
2004-03-08 13:10 ` boyd, rounin
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2004-03-08 16:57 Noah Evans
2004-03-08 16:39 Noah Evans
2004-03-08 16:50 ` boyd, rounin
2004-03-08 14:20 Noah Evans
2004-03-08 13:44 Noah Evans
2004-03-08 14:09 ` Gorka Guardiola Múzquiz
2004-03-08 14:13   ` David Presotto
2004-03-08 14:46     ` boyd, rounin
2004-03-08 14:45   ` boyd, rounin
2004-03-09  1:29   ` Kenji Okamoto
2004-03-08 16:22 ` boyd, rounin
2004-03-08 16:40   ` imp123
2004-03-08  8:53 Tiit Lankots
2004-03-08  8:49 Tiit Lankots
2004-03-08  8:38 Tiit Lankots
2004-03-08  8:41 ` lucio
2004-03-08  8:56   ` Kenji Okamoto
2004-03-08  9:17     ` Kenji Okamoto
2004-03-08  9:22       ` lucio
2004-03-08 13:08   ` boyd, rounin
2004-03-08 13:07 ` boyd, rounin
2004-03-05 22:30 David Tolpin
2004-03-06  1:47 ` David Presotto
2004-03-06  6:23   ` David Tolpin
2004-03-05 22:23 David Tolpin
2004-03-05 23:06 ` boyd, rounin
2004-03-08  4:40   ` Kenji Okamoto
2004-03-08  4:55     ` boyd, rounin
2004-03-08  5:04       ` Kenji Okamoto
2004-03-08  5:09         ` boyd, rounin
2004-03-08  5:18           ` Kenji Okamoto
2004-03-08  5:21             ` Kenji Okamoto
2004-03-08  5:30               ` boyd, rounin
2004-03-08  5:48         ` David Tolpin
2004-03-08  5:08           ` andrey mirtchovski
2004-03-08  6:02             ` dbailey27
2004-03-08  6:12             ` David Tolpin
2004-03-08  6:11               ` dbailey27
2004-03-08  5:32                 ` andrey mirtchovski
2004-03-08  6:19                 ` David Tolpin
2004-03-08  8:45                   ` Charles Forsyth
2004-03-08  6:16             ` David Tolpin
2004-03-08  8:33           ` Charles Forsyth
2004-03-08  4:59     ` boyd, rounin
2004-03-08  5:07       ` George Michaelson
2004-03-08  5:31     ` David Tolpin
2004-03-08  4:51       ` andrey mirtchovski
2004-03-08  6:14         ` David Tolpin
2004-03-08  6:23           ` Kenji Okamoto
2004-03-08  6:25             ` David Tolpin
2004-03-08  8:31         ` Charles Forsyth
2004-03-08  8:37           ` David Tolpin
2004-03-08  8:39             ` Charles Forsyth
2004-03-08 10:05             ` Geoff Collyer
2004-03-08  4:55       ` andrey mirtchovski
2004-03-08  6:16         ` David Tolpin
2004-03-08  5:25           ` andrey mirtchovski
2004-03-08  6:30             ` Kenji Okamoto
2004-03-08  5:44               ` andrey mirtchovski
2004-03-08  6:46                 ` Kenji Okamoto
2004-03-08  9:22                   ` 9nut
2004-03-08  8:24                     ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
2004-03-08  8:51                       ` Kenji Okamoto
2004-03-08  8:49                     ` Kenji Okamoto
2004-03-08  9:20                 ` 9nut
2004-03-08  8:28                   ` lucio
2004-03-08 13:01                   ` boyd, rounin
2004-03-08 19:25               ` Derek Fawcus
2004-03-08 20:21                 ` Axel Belinfante
2004-03-08 20:26                   ` Axel Belinfante
2004-03-08 20:40                   ` boyd, rounin
2004-03-08 22:40                     ` 9nut
2004-03-08 21:20                   ` Derek Fawcus
2004-03-08 22:24                 ` Wes Kussmaul
2004-03-09  9:24                   ` Charles Forsyth
2004-03-09  1:51                 ` Kenji Okamoto

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).