Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[okamoto]

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You are quite right.  It was my misunderstanding.

The right byte sequence of
もしもPlan 9で日本語を使いたいなら、私
are
[E3 82 82][E3 81 97][E3 82 82][Plan 9][E3 81 A7][E6 97 A5]
[E6 9C AC][E8 AA 9E][E3 82 92][E4 BD BF][E3 81 84][E3 81 9F]
[E3 81 84][E3 81 AA][W3 82 89][E3 80 81][E7 A7 81].

Anyway, thank you very much Russ, now we can use UTF-8 on your
Wiki server.  I replaced the bogus one.

Kenji


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From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 00:05:00 -0500
Message-ID: <200102020505.AAA22677@smtp4.fas.harvard.edu>

  0x20 is not part of a valid UTF-8 sequence except when it represents
  a space character.  "[E6 97 20]" is not a valid UTF-8 sequence.

Right.  He was (intentionally or not) quoting the
munged UTF that was coming back from wikifs rather
than the original.  It was actually that UTF sequences like
日 [E6 97 A5] were turning into bogus sequences like [E6 97 20]
in the wikifs parse routine that condenses runs of whitespace into
single spaces.

Russ

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[nemo]

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: Captain nemo?

Hmmm, Errr, Yep.
I was sleeping, sorry.
Any problem w/ nautilus engines?
Or is it already time for a dive?


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From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:24:56 0900
Message-ID: <20010202022519.F362F199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu>

>Excellent page, but by no means the first!

Captain nemo?

By the way, utf-8 will not pass safely. --> Russ

Kenji

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[rsc]

  0x20 is not part of a valid UTF-8 sequence except when it represents
  a space character.  "[E6 97 20]" is not a valid UTF-8 sequence.

Right.  He was (intentionally or not) quoting the
munged UTF that was coming back from wikifs rather
than the original.  It was actually that UTF sequences like
日 [E6 97 A5] were turning into bogus sequences like [E6 97 20]
in the wikifs parse routine that condenses runs of whitespace into
single spaces.

Russ

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[rob pike]

> I checked my UTF-8 document somemore bits, and found Wiki server may
> transrate '0x20' to '0x0a', which destroyes Japanese text.

0x20 is not part of a valid UTF-8 sequence except when it represents
a space character.  "[E6 97 20]" is not a valid UTF-8 sequence.

-rob

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[rsc]

I just fixed that, a minute ago.
I was dutifully using isspace() rather than
reinvent the wheel, and isspace() didn't work
on UTF bytes (with the high-bit set, it thought
they were negative).

So the return value on bytes in UTF sequences
was mostly bogus.  Retype the UTF, it should
stay this time.

Russ

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[okamoto]

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I checked my UTF-8 document somemore bits, and found Wiki server may
transrate '0x20' to '0x0a', which destroyes Japanese text.

Like this,

I wrote (say, /mnt/wiki/22/index.txt),

もしもPlan 9で日本語を使いたいなら、私

the byte sequence of abobe sentence will be

[E3 82 82][E3 81 97][E3 82 82][506C616E2039][E3 81 20][E6 97 20]
[E6 9C 20][E8 AA 9E][E3 82 92][E4 BD 20][E3 81 84][E3 81 9F]
[E3 81 84][E3 81 AA][E3 82 20][E7 20 81][E9 81 20].

The runes which has '0x20' in that UTF-8 sequence are destroyed,
but the others are written right. Here, I enclosed one Kanji
character(rune) in [].

Couldn't we stop this translation from '0x20' to '0x0a'?

Kenji


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From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:24:56 0900
Message-ID: <20010202022519.F362F199D5@mail.cse.psu.edu>

>Excellent page, but by no means the first!

Captain nemo?

By the way, utf-8 will not pass safely. --> Russ

Kenji

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[okamoto]

>Excellent page, but by no means the first!

Captain nemo?

By the way, utf-8 will not pass safely. --> Russ

Kenji

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[nigel]

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> Ahh, Dan you are the first person to do it!  Congratulations!

> >I should have read the Wiki syntax guide before

Excellent page, but by no means the first!



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From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:28:39 0900
Message-ID: <20010201042842.0AF9D199D7@mail.cse.psu.edu>

Ahh, Dan you are the first person to do it!  Congratulations!

>I should have read the Wiki syntax guide before

This word is not for you, but to me.  :-)

>well, so I had to use FreeeBSD and netscape.  Oh well....

However, the result is same.  yes, I've read your article there.

Kenji

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[Dan Cross]

In article <E14OIj4-0003TE-0X@anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net> you write:
>Excellent page,

Thank you!

>but by no means the first!

Aww, I was hoping I'd be able to say, ``first wiki!'' or
something like that.

	- Dan C.

:-)

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[okamoto]

Ahh, Dan you are the first person to do it!  Congratulations!

>I should have read the Wiki syntax guide before

This word is not for you, but to me.  :-)

>well, so I had to use FreeeBSD and netscape.  Oh well....

However, the result is same.  yes, I've read your article there.

Kenji

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[okamoto]

Congratulations!
This is a very interesting experiment.

I access it by your Acme client, and tried to add a new Edit link, such as
Internationalization in the first page.  I chose 'New' menu command, and
set a first line as its title like "INTERNATIONALIZATION" and wrotea short
sentence below.  Then, I clicked 'put' command.  Can this new page appear?

Kenji

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[nemo]

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I think is would interest others as well.
Regarding the wiki port number...


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From: rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com
To: nemo@gsyc.escet.urjc.es
Subject: Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 06:48:50 -0500
Message-ID: <200101311148.GAA15163@smtp4.fas.harvard.edu>

i just realized i forgot that.
it's 17035 for both tcp and il.

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[Russ Cox]

The port information along with a couple-sentence
explanation of the browser is linked off the
main wiki page as "Acme wiki instructions".

Russ

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[Dan Cross]

In article <20010131115754.1EEA619A13@mail.cse.psu.edu> you write:
>The port information along with a couple-sentence
>explanation of the browser is linked off the
>main wiki page as "Acme wiki instructions".

Wow, that's cool.  Thanks, Russ.  :-)

Much as I dislike the web, it can be pretty useful sometimes.

I put up an entry on how to install a 3rd edition file server.  It took
me a few attempts; I should have read the Wiki syntax guide before
going too far, and netscape is being my nemessis.  I would have used
the acme client, but my ricochet modem and ip/ppp don't get along too
well, so I had to use FreeeBSD and netscape.  Oh well....

Anyway, I wrote everything from memory, so I'm sure there are errors
and such, so please feel free, anyone, to edit it as you see fit.
Unfortunately, I'll be out of town for a few days and won't have access
to a computer until I get back, so I won't have a chance to apologize
for any particularly egregious errors myself.  :-)

	- Dan C.

[9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[Russ Cox]

I have set up a Plan 9 wiki.

A wiki is a web server that anyone on the 
internet can edit, traditionally by using 
a web browser.  The one I have set up is a 
bit different from the others since it can
be accessed either using a web browser or
using an Acme client.  The wiki itself is
provided by a file system (what else?) that
runs underneath the web server or underneath
the Acme client.  This means that it is equally
accessible to Plan 9 and non-Plan 9 users.

I have seeded the wiki with the contents of
the Plan 9 "Getting Started" document, but my
hope is that various readers of this list will
find it worth their while to fix up or add 
whatever they feel is wrong, unclear, or missing.
I think that collectively we can do a good job
of presenting useful information in an accessible
manner.  Recent converts especially may have a much
better feel for what needs more explanation than
is currently there.

There is, of course, a huge potential for abuse.
Please don't.  If the server fills with various
objectionable material, we'll take it down, and
I really don't want to do that.

The web interface is at 
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9,
and you can download the Acme client from
the usual updates page.

Enjoy.

Russ

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[Quinn Dunkan]

> I have set up a Plan 9 wiki.

Darn you!  That was going to be my project :)
Oh well, I'm sure you did it better than I could have.

Although a random nit is that, for the web interface, the generated links
point to

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/14

instead of

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/14/

or

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/14/index.html

which forces the browser to do a 301 Moved Permanently redirect to get the
real address every time you follow a link.

Very cool, though.

> There is, of course, a huge potential for abuse.
> Please don't.  If the server fills with various
> objectionable material, we'll take it down, and
> I really don't want to do that.

I guess that means the transvestite angora fetish ascii porn is out...

[ dmr ]
> similar points.  I'm more the let-a-hundred-flowers-bloom kind of guy.

How about let-a-hundred-weeds-overgrow? :)  It's still better than monoculture
or toxic wasteland (although I guess you could say the current field has
aspects of both).  It's still possible to find or make beautiful things in a
toxic wasteland, even if it's not as much fun.

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[Dan Cross]

In article <200102010808.AAA00583@tammananny.tiger> you write:
>It's still possible to find or make beautiful things in a
>toxic wasteland, even if it's not as much fun.

You know, I was going to say:

	Yeah, just look at Bell Labs: They're in New Jersey, but they
	still make some pretty beautiful software.

But then I realized that that wouldn't be funny except outside of
New Jersey.

(okay, okay, I'm avoiding the rotten fruit now and getting ready to
get on an airplane.  Apologies all around for the off-topic pot shot
at Jersey, but, hey---it was too hard to resist....  :-)

	- Dan C.

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[Tom Duff]

> You know, I was going to say:
>
> 	Yeah, just look at Bell Labs: They're in New Jersey, but they
> 	still make some pretty beautiful software.
>
> But then I realized that that wouldn't be funny except outside of
> New Jersey.
>
> (okay, okay, I'm avoiding the rotten fruit now and getting ready to
> get on an airplane.  Apologies all around for the off-topic pot shot
> at Jersey, but, hey---it was too hard to resist....  :-)


You know, I was at Murray Hill for twelve years, but every time someone
brings up the suburban horrors of New Jersey, I'm forced to remember
the first time I visited Bell Labs (July 1975.)  The directions we were given
were `From New York, get onto Route 22, go to the first MacDonalds, turn
right just past the arches, go right at the tee, up the hill to Mountain
Ave, etc.'  Now, the first MacDonalds was about a 20 mile drive through
the worst of strip-mall New Jersey, but after those two quick rights (past
the unmentioned cement quarry), we were in the beautiful woods of the
Watchung Reservation.  It was like something out of The Divine Comedy,
as we passed from the inferno to paradise...

The area has been built up a bit since then, but still, especially
when the leaves are falling in October, you can still get a little feeling
of entering a magic place as you climb the Watchung mountains to Murray
Hill.  (Of course, the gebrauchsarchitektur of the liquid nitrogen plant
and the lab buildings at MH pretty much destroy the illusion, but you miss
those if you go through the front door.)

Re: [9fans] plan 9 wiki experiment

[Dan Cross]

In article <10102011138.ZM43426@marvin> you write:
>You know, I was at Murray Hill for twelve years, but every time someone
>brings up the suburban horrors of New Jersey, I'm forced to remember
>the first time I visited Bell Labs (July 1975.)  The directions we were given
>were `From New York, get onto Route 22, go to the first MacDonalds, turn
>right just past the arches, go right at the tee, up the hill to Mountain
>Ave, etc.'  Now, the first MacDonalds was about a 20 mile drive through
>the worst of strip-mall New Jersey, but after those two quick rights (past
>the unmentioned cement quarry), we were in the beautiful woods of the
>Watchung Reservation.  It was like something out of The Divine Comedy,
>as we passed from the inferno to paradise...
>
>The area has been built up a bit since then, but still, especially
>when the leaves are falling in October, you can still get a little feeling
>of entering a magic place as you climb the Watchung mountains to Murray
>Hill.  (Of course, the gebrauchsarchitektur of the liquid nitrogen plant
>and the lab buildings at MH pretty much destroy the illusion, but you miss
>those if you go through the front door.)

Hmm....  The one and only time I was at Murray Hill was many years
ago.  I remember being particularly impressed with the stairs outside;
they looked like they'd be a lot of fun to skateboard on.

While I'm sure that New Jersey has some nice parts, the places I see
most frequently are pretty depressing (Hoboken, Newark, etc).  I must
admit, however, that my friend's place in Weehawken (opposite 42nd St)
is pretty nice and has a stunning view of Manhattan; better, indeed,
than any view one can get from Manhattan itself.

When I was at Penn State, one could avail oneself of some pretty
spectacular scenery.  I always thought that the campus itself was very
beautiful, as well.  I don't know how much it's changed since I left,
though.  Scott?

	- Dan C.