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From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] architectures
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:42:22 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20010712084649.299C9199C0@mail.cse.psu.edu> (raw)

>>i'm particularly fond of the acme interface, and i really
>>like the chording (okay, maybe it's not for everyone, but _i_
>>really like it). i'm asking about non-techie folks. for them,
>>wouldn't a single-button interface be simpler to understand?

not necessarily, since the functionality of the extra buttons
must be provided somehow, whether by menus, pop-up menus,
key-mouse combinations, keys alone, or some other way.  much might
depend on the choice of conventions for using more than one button.
that in acme all three buttons select text is a big simplification.
i usually introduce it as follows: ``button 1 selects text, button 2
selects text, and button 3 ...'' and during the following pause
nearly everyone says ``selects text?''.  i then explain
that `of course' each button does different things with
the text selected.  that seems fine.  the chording for cut/paste/copy
takes a little practice, but since it has a `feel' much like grabbing
text from the screen, that also seems fine.   outside acme,
the Blit convention (perhaps adopted from Smalltalk, i don't know)
was something like: button 1 generally selected things, button 2 provided local
operations (usually on the thing selected), and button 3 provided global operations
for the application, with a few exceptions such as paint programs.
most menus were kept fairly small.

i know at least one non- technical user of acme who sends and receives
mail, plumbing photos and other things, and editing quite happily.
other non-technical people i've shown it to wanted to use acme on
their machines for document preparation and email because the
organisation into columns and frames and the use of the buttons was
just so much more effective than their `desktop' or a clutter of
windows.  (they also like the soft use of colour.)
contrary to Tog's advice on this point: with care i suspect
you can make abstractions simple and effective enough without insisting on
drawing a tenuous likeness to something in the `real world'.



             reply	other threads:[~2001-07-12  8:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 196+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-07-12  8:42 forsyth [this message]
2001-07-12 13:56 ` Laura Creighton
2001-07-12 16:13 ` Ozan Yigit
2001-07-12 16:33   ` Matt
2001-07-12 18:12     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-07-12 18:16       ` Martin Harriss
2001-07-12 18:43       ` Dan Cross
2001-07-13 14:52         ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2001-07-13 15:13           ` Boyd Roberts
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-01-20 20:02 [9fans] Getting started in Plan9 - help Roshan James
2002-01-20 21:01 ` Matt H
2002-01-20 22:02   ` Scott Schwartz
2002-01-22  9:54     ` ozan s yigit
2002-01-23 10:05       ` Bakul Shah
2002-01-21 10:22   ` Boyd Roberts
2002-01-21 10:40     ` John Murdie
2002-01-20 21:03 ` William S.
2002-01-20 21:34 ` William Josephson
2002-01-21  6:53 ` cej
2001-10-25 17:55 [9fans] Virtual memory in BSD and Plan9 Russ Cox
2001-10-25 18:29 ` William Josephson
2001-10-26  8:09   ` [9fans] acme bug/annoyance? Matt
2001-10-26 11:36     ` rob pike
2001-10-26 14:43       ` Scott Schwartz
2001-10-29 10:16   ` [9fans] Virtual memory in BSD and Plan9 John S. Dyson
2001-07-13  2:25 [9fans] architectures Rick Hohensee
2001-07-12 12:55 forsyth
2001-07-12 12:43 rob pike
2001-07-12 19:45 ` Boyd Roberts
2001-07-12 11:15 nemo
2001-07-12 20:28 ` Boyd Roberts
2001-07-13 14:53   ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2001-07-13 15:11     ` Boyd Roberts
2001-07-12 10:30 nemo
2001-07-12 10:18 ` Christopher Nielsen
2001-07-12  7:15 Sape Mullender
2001-07-12  6:16 okamoto
2001-07-12  7:46 ` pac
2001-07-12  9:59 ` Christopher Nielsen
2001-07-12  5:22 anothy
2001-07-12  8:04 ` Matt
2001-07-12 10:12 ` Boyd Roberts
2001-07-12 13:01 ` Laura Creighton
2001-07-11 23:17 Jonathan Sergent
2001-07-11 17:59 David Gordon Hogan
2001-07-11 17:38 geoff
2001-07-11 18:29 ` Dan Cross
2001-07-11 16:27 jmk
2001-07-11 16:03 jmk
2001-07-11 15:17 nemo
2001-07-11 15:07 bwc
2001-07-11 16:53 ` Mike Haertel
2001-07-11 14:36 anothy
2001-07-11 14:59 ` Theo Honohan
2001-07-11 15:02   ` Matt
2001-07-11 16:52   ` Mike Haertel
2001-07-11 22:58 ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-26 16:33 [9fans] bitsy question John Packer
2001-06-26 17:10 ` [9fans] " Dan Cross
2001-06-26 19:51   ` John Packer
2001-06-26 20:34     ` Dan Cross
2001-06-29 22:32       ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-27  1:15     ` [9fans] Two cpu servers? Ish Rattan
2001-06-26 20:09   ` [9fans] Re: bitsy question John Packer
2001-06-26 20:36     ` Dan Cross
2001-06-26 20:18   ` Latchesar Ionkov
2001-06-26 20:28     ` Matt
2001-06-26 22:13       ` Steve Kilbane
     [not found] <matt@proweb.co.uk>
2001-06-12  0:39 ` [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out Matt
2001-06-12  0:55   ` Scott Schwartz
2001-06-12  1:12     ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-12  1:00   ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-12  1:30     ` Jonathan Sergent
2001-06-15  8:27     ` Hermann Samso
2001-06-15 11:53       ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-15 12:18         ` Matt
2001-06-15 14:01         ` Matt
2001-06-15 14:25           ` Boyd Roberts
     [not found] <vikki@proweb.co.uk>
2001-06-10 17:32 ` [9fans] string to list? vikki
2001-06-10 17:47   ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-10 17:55   ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-10 18:03   ` Scott Schwartz
2001-06-10 21:48     ` Matt
2001-06-10 22:24       ` Scott Schwartz
2001-06-10 22:30         ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-09 17:22 [9fans] could those of you who have students check this out for forsyth
2001-06-09 18:50 ` [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science andrey mirtchovski
2001-06-09 17:56   ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-11  8:27     ` pac
2001-06-11 15:19     ` Dan Cross
2001-06-11 21:43       ` Boyd Roberts
     [not found]       ` <0cb501c0f2bf$97cacea0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA>
2001-06-11 22:43         ` paurea
2001-06-12 14:18           ` Dan Cross
2001-06-12 15:50             ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-12 18:48               ` Dan Cross
2001-06-12  0:09   ` Scott Merrilees
2001-06-12  0:16     ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-12  0:42       ` Scott Merrilees
2001-06-12  1:08         ` Boyd Roberts
     [not found]   ` <0cc301c0f2c0$78949560$e8b7c6d4@SOMA>
2001-06-12 14:12     ` Dan Cross
2001-06-16 23:34   ` Matt
2001-06-28 21:29     ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-28 22:03       ` Matt
2001-06-28 23:20         ` George Michaelson
2001-06-29 21:27           ` Boyd Roberts
2001-07-18 15:49           ` Ralph Corderoy
2001-06-29  4:30         ` Lucio De Re
2000-09-07 21:57 [9fans] new versions of graphics programs? rob pike
2000-09-07 22:50 ` Jim Choate
     [not found]   ` <ravage@einstein.ssz.com>
2000-09-07 22:35     ` Tom Duff
2000-09-07 23:24       ` Jim Choate
2000-09-08 15:28         ` please_no_spam_to_
     [not found]           ` <D.M.Pick@qmw.ac.uk>
2000-09-08 16:43             ` Tom Duff
2000-08-18 15:34 [9fans] Re: Solaris thread scheaduling rob pike
     [not found] ` <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com>
2000-08-02 14:48   ` [9fans] pipefile rob pike
2000-08-02 15:49     ` James A. Robinson
2000-08-18 20:25   ` [9fans] Re: Solaris thread scheaduling Tom Duff
2000-09-06 21:59   ` [9fans] Reliable Cray Y-MP C90 Supercomputer rob pike
2000-09-06 22:02     ` James A. Robinson
2000-09-06 22:14       ` Boyd Roberts
2000-09-06 22:11     ` Boyd Roberts
2000-09-07 22:18   ` [9fans] new versions of graphics programs? Tom Duff
2000-11-01 22:23   ` [9fans] /n/smtp rob pike
2000-11-01 22:38     ` Scott Schwartz
2000-11-24  0:41   ` [9fans] Crazy idea... or a new project? rob pike
2000-11-24  0:48     ` Boyd Roberts
2000-11-24 22:13     ` Scott Schwartz
2000-11-24 22:24       ` Boyd Roberts
2001-02-06 17:11   ` [9fans] azerty [french] keyboard support rob pike
2001-02-06 19:10     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-02-06 19:23     ` Dan Cross
2001-02-07 15:23   ` [9fans] 9p2k, fsync rob pike
2001-02-07 18:42     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-02-08  1:19     ` Dan Cross
2001-02-08  9:43       ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2001-02-14 13:51   ` [9fans] isatty rob pike
2001-02-14 16:42     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-03-26 14:12   ` [9fans] sam mod for delete-forward rob pike
2001-03-26 15:37     ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2001-03-27  8:25       ` Boyd Roberts
2001-03-27 14:01         ` Sam
2001-03-27 16:51           ` Dan Cross
2001-03-28  8:37             ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2001-03-29  8:26               ` Boyd Roberts
2001-03-26 15:42     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-05-10 14:59   ` [9fans] snprint(), getfields() specification rob pike
2001-05-10 16:42     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-05-10 18:13     ` Steve Kilbane
2001-05-10 21:38       ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-11  6:51         ` Steve Kilbane
2001-05-19 14:14   ` Re[4]: [9fans] home, end ^h^j^k^l rob pike
2001-05-19 14:26     ` Re[6]: " Matt H
2001-05-19 22:45       ` [9fans] ls -m Scott Schwartz
2001-05-19 22:50         ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-19 15:35     ` Re[4]: [9fans] home, end ^h^j^k^l James A. Robinson
2001-05-19 20:36     ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-19 23:30     ` Richard Elberger
2001-05-20  2:37     ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-20  7:03     ` Lucio De Re
2001-05-20 11:16     ` paurea
2001-05-20 13:11       ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-20 13:04     ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-23  8:24     ` Randolph Fritz
2001-05-23  8:46       ` Re[6]: " Matt H
2001-05-23  9:04         ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-20  0:16   ` [9fans] ls -m rob pike
2001-05-20  0:31     ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-20  1:38     ` [9fans] mouse vs key Scott Schwartz
2001-05-20  6:29       ` Dan Cross
2001-05-20  8:09       ` Matt H
2001-05-20 11:35         ` Re[2]: [9fans] mouse vs key - nethack matt
2001-05-20 13:13           ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-20 12:50         ` [9fans] mouse vs key Boyd Roberts
2001-05-29  4:27   ` [9fans] src vs db rob pike
2001-05-29  4:37     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-07-11 19:22   ` [9fans] sam vs acme rob pike
2001-07-11 20:08     ` James A. Robinson
2001-08-14 12:54   ` [9fans] User Interface rob pike
2001-08-14 15:01     ` James A. Robinson
2001-08-16 13:45     ` phaet0n
2001-08-20  8:57     ` Randolph Fritz
2001-12-02  3:10   ` [9fans] plumb rob pike
2001-12-02  3:31     ` Scott Schwartz
2002-01-30  5:52   ` [9fans] venti rob pike
2002-01-30  6:23     ` George Michaelson
2002-01-30  8:07     ` paurea
2002-01-30 11:17     ` Boyd Roberts
2002-03-01  6:20   ` Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) rob pike
2002-03-01  6:34     ` George Michaelson
2002-03-01 12:04     ` Boyd Roberts
2002-04-27 16:35   ` [9fans] Fourth Release of Plan 9 Now Available rob pike, esq.
2002-04-27 18:24     ` Scott Schwartz
2002-04-27 22:14     ` Laura Creighton
2002-04-29  9:37     ` Andrew
2002-06-28 16:49   ` [9fans] dumb question rob pike, esq.
2002-06-29  2:23     ` Scott Schwartz

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