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From: phaet0n <phaet0n@hotmail.com>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] User Interface
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:45:14 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <758512ed.0108160506.3c0f4d33@posting.google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20010814125559.826F319A3E@mail.cse.psu.edu>

I have to admit that reading this newsgroup is
perhaps the most amusing thing one can do on
the internet. Having followed it in silence since
release 3, I've decided to break silence.

Plan 9 is gorgeously designed. It's actually
refreshing. But I've not touched it recently.
More later.

The UI crisis can be traced to the fact that no
developer ships documentation with commerical
end-user software any more. Online help is
appauling. Moreover, developers have no
consistency of metaphor. Apple's success can be
traced to the fact that their UI guidelines were
with development documentation. I've never
encountered an Apple user who didn't have at
least minimal command of a new application,
mainly because developers tried to adhere to
those guidelines. If you expect those guidelines
to be followed by every OS, well you're an idiot.
However, if you expect the UI to be intuitive,
then you're dead right. The installer for Plan 9
is intuitive. In fact, Rio is intuitive. I felt
at ease immediately using them. The only
curiosity was the ESC feature in Rio which
required reading the man page. As you see, I don't
even know what it's called, but I use it...
intuitive. This minimal intuitiveness is all that
is required. The rest falls on the user to gain
acquaintence with the metaphor used by the OS
designer. This is where Plan 9 becomes truly
refreshing. Please read about how it treats
process namespaces, how the snarf buffer works,
how rio can be run within itself, and thus how
hardware devices are multiplexed and treated as
files. The list goes on and on. But it requires a
little work on your part so, please, read the
papers on website.

Intuitiveness is framed by personal experience.
If someone could only get this into the skulls of
the HCI people at schools. We use elevators, hand- 
guns, can openers, etc., not because they're
inherently intuitive, but because we've seen them
being used since we were very little. This is not
some kind of Freudian condition that requires
having intefaces resemble your mother in order to
be intuitive. Although it would explain why
going down is so popular in others OSes.

As for having not used p9 recently that's because
I'm not willing to work in 8bit under my Matrox
MII. I don't know how to write PCI drivers. So
for now, I'm developing a compiler for a (yes, 
another) functional language, since I hate C and
can't get GHC, or nhc to build. I'm working on
BeOS, which is very nice but dying. It works and I
get to use OCaml to develop the compiler. Now all
I have to do is to ask you kind folks where I can
find out about Plan 9's object format so I can
port the Netwide assembler and get it to emit
proper object files. Then hopefully we can all
look forward to a nice compiler in the future
which emits objects for both Plan 9 and ELF.

Thank you. And keep me laughing, or crying.
Thanks to Rob eh, and the gang at Bell Labs.
Your work is greatly appreciated.

ph
--


  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-08-16 13:45 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 204+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2000-08-18 15:34 [9fans] Re: Solaris thread scheaduling rob pike
     [not found] ` <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com>
2000-08-02 14:48   ` [9fans] pipefile rob pike
2000-08-02 15:49     ` James A. Robinson
2000-08-18 20:25   ` [9fans] Re: Solaris thread scheaduling Tom Duff
2000-09-06 21:59   ` [9fans] Reliable Cray Y-MP C90 Supercomputer rob pike
2000-09-06 22:02     ` James A. Robinson
2000-09-06 22:14       ` Boyd Roberts
2000-09-06 22:11     ` Boyd Roberts
2000-09-07 22:18   ` [9fans] new versions of graphics programs? Tom Duff
2000-11-01 22:23   ` [9fans] /n/smtp rob pike
2000-11-01 22:38     ` Scott Schwartz
2000-11-24  0:41   ` [9fans] Crazy idea... or a new project? rob pike
2000-11-24  0:48     ` Boyd Roberts
2000-11-24 22:13     ` Scott Schwartz
2000-11-24 22:24       ` Boyd Roberts
2001-02-06 17:11   ` [9fans] azerty [french] keyboard support rob pike
2001-02-06 19:10     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-02-06 19:23     ` Dan Cross
2001-02-07 15:23   ` [9fans] 9p2k, fsync rob pike
2001-02-07 18:42     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-02-08  1:19     ` Dan Cross
2001-02-08  9:43       ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2001-02-14 13:51   ` [9fans] isatty rob pike
2001-02-14 16:42     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-03-26 14:12   ` [9fans] sam mod for delete-forward rob pike
2001-03-26 15:37     ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2001-03-27  8:25       ` Boyd Roberts
2001-03-27 14:01         ` Sam
2001-03-27 16:51           ` Dan Cross
2001-03-28  8:37             ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2001-03-29  8:26               ` Boyd Roberts
2001-03-26 15:42     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-05-10 14:59   ` [9fans] snprint(), getfields() specification rob pike
2001-05-10 16:42     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-05-10 18:13     ` Steve Kilbane
2001-05-10 21:38       ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-11  6:51         ` Steve Kilbane
2001-05-19 14:14   ` Re[4]: [9fans] home, end ^h^j^k^l rob pike
2001-05-19 14:26     ` Re[6]: " Matt H
2001-05-19 22:45       ` [9fans] ls -m Scott Schwartz
2001-05-19 22:50         ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-19 15:35     ` Re[4]: [9fans] home, end ^h^j^k^l James A. Robinson
2001-05-19 20:36     ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-19 23:30     ` Richard Elberger
2001-05-20  2:37     ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-20  7:03     ` Lucio De Re
2001-05-20 11:16     ` paurea
2001-05-20 13:11       ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-20 13:04     ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-23  8:24     ` Randolph Fritz
2001-05-23  8:46       ` Re[6]: " Matt H
2001-05-23  9:04         ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-20  0:16   ` [9fans] ls -m rob pike
2001-05-20  0:31     ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-20  1:38     ` [9fans] mouse vs key Scott Schwartz
2001-05-20  6:29       ` Dan Cross
2001-05-20  8:09       ` Matt H
2001-05-20 11:35         ` Re[2]: [9fans] mouse vs key - nethack matt
2001-05-20 13:13           ` Boyd Roberts
2001-05-20 12:50         ` [9fans] mouse vs key Boyd Roberts
2001-05-29  4:27   ` [9fans] src vs db rob pike
2001-05-29  4:37     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-07-11 19:22   ` [9fans] sam vs acme rob pike
2001-07-11 20:08     ` James A. Robinson
2001-08-14 12:54   ` [9fans] User Interface rob pike
2001-08-14 15:01     ` James A. Robinson
2001-08-16 13:45     ` phaet0n [this message]
2001-08-20  8:57     ` Randolph Fritz
2001-12-02  3:10   ` [9fans] plumb rob pike
2001-12-02  3:31     ` Scott Schwartz
2002-01-30  5:52   ` [9fans] venti rob pike
2002-01-30  6:23     ` George Michaelson
2002-01-30  8:07     ` paurea
2002-01-30 11:17     ` Boyd Roberts
2002-03-01  6:20   ` Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd) rob pike
2002-03-01  6:34     ` George Michaelson
2002-03-01 12:04     ` Boyd Roberts
2002-04-27 16:35   ` [9fans] Fourth Release of Plan 9 Now Available rob pike, esq.
2002-04-27 18:24     ` Scott Schwartz
2002-04-27 22:14     ` Laura Creighton
2002-04-29  9:37     ` Andrew
2002-06-28 16:49   ` [9fans] dumb question rob pike, esq.
2002-06-29  2:23     ` Scott Schwartz
2000-09-07 21:57 [9fans] new versions of graphics programs? rob pike
2000-09-07 22:50 ` Jim Choate
     [not found]   ` <ravage@einstein.ssz.com>
2000-09-07 22:35     ` Tom Duff
2000-09-07 23:24       ` Jim Choate
2000-09-08 15:28         ` please_no_spam_to_
     [not found]           ` <D.M.Pick@qmw.ac.uk>
2000-09-08 16:43             ` Tom Duff
2001-06-09 17:22 [9fans] could those of you who have students check this out for forsyth
2001-06-09 18:50 ` [9fans] Re: the 'science' in computer science andrey mirtchovski
2001-06-09 17:56   ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-11  8:27     ` pac
2001-06-11 15:19     ` Dan Cross
2001-06-11 21:43       ` Boyd Roberts
     [not found]       ` <0cb501c0f2bf$97cacea0$e8b7c6d4@SOMA>
2001-06-11 22:43         ` paurea
2001-06-12 14:18           ` Dan Cross
2001-06-12 15:50             ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-12 18:48               ` Dan Cross
2001-06-12  0:09   ` Scott Merrilees
2001-06-12  0:16     ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-12  0:42       ` Scott Merrilees
2001-06-12  1:08         ` Boyd Roberts
     [not found]   ` <0cc301c0f2c0$78949560$e8b7c6d4@SOMA>
2001-06-12 14:12     ` Dan Cross
2001-06-16 23:34   ` Matt
2001-06-28 21:29     ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-28 22:03       ` Matt
2001-06-28 23:20         ` George Michaelson
2001-06-29 21:27           ` Boyd Roberts
2001-07-18 15:49           ` Ralph Corderoy
2001-06-29  4:30         ` Lucio De Re
     [not found] <vikki@proweb.co.uk>
2001-06-10 17:32 ` [9fans] string to list? vikki
2001-06-10 17:47   ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-10 17:55   ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-10 18:03   ` Scott Schwartz
2001-06-10 21:48     ` Matt
2001-06-10 22:24       ` Scott Schwartz
2001-06-10 22:30         ` Boyd Roberts
     [not found] <matt@proweb.co.uk>
2001-06-12  0:39 ` [9fans] help, i'm in a wet paper bag and I can't get out Matt
2001-06-12  0:55   ` Scott Schwartz
2001-06-12  1:12     ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-12  1:00   ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-12  1:30     ` Jonathan Sergent
2001-06-15  8:27     ` Hermann Samso
2001-06-15 11:53       ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-15 12:18         ` Matt
2001-06-15 14:01         ` Matt
2001-06-15 14:25           ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-26 16:33 [9fans] bitsy question John Packer
2001-06-26 17:10 ` [9fans] " Dan Cross
2001-06-26 19:51   ` John Packer
2001-06-26 20:34     ` Dan Cross
2001-06-29 22:32       ` Boyd Roberts
2001-06-27  1:15     ` [9fans] Two cpu servers? Ish Rattan
2001-06-26 20:09   ` [9fans] Re: bitsy question John Packer
2001-06-26 20:36     ` Dan Cross
2001-06-26 20:18   ` Latchesar Ionkov
2001-06-26 20:28     ` Matt
2001-06-26 22:13       ` Steve Kilbane
2001-07-12  8:42 [9fans] architectures forsyth
2001-07-12 13:56 ` Laura Creighton
2001-07-12 16:13 ` Ozan Yigit
2001-07-12 16:33   ` Matt
2001-07-12 18:12     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-07-12 18:16       ` Martin Harriss
2001-07-12 18:43       ` Dan Cross
2001-07-13 14:52         ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2001-07-13 15:13           ` Boyd Roberts
2001-08-14  9:46 [9fans] User Interface Eric de Redelijkheid
2001-08-14 13:15 ` John Murdie
2001-08-15 13:23 ` William K. Josephson
2001-08-16 21:04 ` Boyd Roberts
2001-08-14 10:02 nigel
2001-08-14 10:27 ` Lucio De Re
2001-08-14 12:45   ` pac
2001-08-15  8:34     ` Eric de Redelijkheid
2001-08-16  0:59       ` Micah Stetson
2001-08-15 23:25         ` Boyd Roberts
2001-08-16  8:28       ` Douglas A. Gwyn
     [not found]     ` <200108151619.MAA07420@augusta.math.psu.edu>
2001-08-16  8:28       ` Eric de Redelijkheid
2001-08-16 10:26         ` Re[2]: " Matt
2001-08-16 10:43           ` Eric de Redelijkheid
2001-08-16 19:29         ` Steve Kilbane
2001-08-16 20:40           ` Boyd Roberts
2001-08-17  8:50           ` mark powers
2001-08-17  8:49         ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2001-08-14 16:53 forsyth
2001-08-14 17:13 anothy
2001-08-15 17:06 ` Boyd Roberts
2001-08-14 17:58 bwc
2001-08-14 19:09 ` andrey mirtchovski
2001-08-15 12:46 rob pike
2001-08-15 16:35 ` Boyd Roberts
2001-08-15 13:27 Peter Bosch
2001-08-15 14:20 bwc
2001-08-15 17:13 ` Boyd Roberts
2001-08-16  1:00 okamoto
2001-08-16  5:56 ` Fariborz 'Skip' Tavakkolian
2001-08-17 11:17 forsyth
2001-08-20 15:02 Re[2]: " anothy
2001-08-22 21:25 ` Matthew Hannigan
2001-08-23  2:24   ` Boyd Roberts
2001-08-23 15:04     ` Dan Cross
2001-08-23 20:17       ` Boyd Roberts
2001-08-23 21:35         ` Dan Cross
2001-08-23 21:49           ` Boyd Roberts
2001-08-24 13:04         ` David Lukes
2001-08-23 20:17       ` Boyd Roberts
2001-08-23 20:17       ` Boyd Roberts
2001-08-23 15:35 Vincent van Gelderen
2001-10-25 17:55 [9fans] Virtual memory in BSD and Plan9 Russ Cox
2001-10-25 18:29 ` William Josephson
2001-10-26  8:09   ` [9fans] acme bug/annoyance? Matt
2001-10-26 11:36     ` rob pike
2001-10-26 14:43       ` Scott Schwartz
2001-10-29 10:16   ` [9fans] Virtual memory in BSD and Plan9 John S. Dyson
2002-01-20 20:02 [9fans] Getting started in Plan9 - help Roshan James
2002-01-20 21:01 ` Matt H
2002-01-20 22:02   ` Scott Schwartz
2002-01-22  9:54     ` ozan s yigit
2002-01-23 10:05       ` Bakul Shah
2002-01-21 10:22   ` Boyd Roberts
2002-01-21 10:40     ` John Murdie
2002-01-20 21:03 ` William S.
2002-01-20 21:34 ` William Josephson
2002-01-21  6:53 ` cej

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