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From: Theo de Raadt <deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: [9fans] The new ridiculous license
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:04:52 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200306171604.h5HG4qCU024345@cvs.openbsd.org> (raw)

	http://plan9.bell-labs.com/hidden/newlicense.html

[and whichever other versions are proposed..]

The new license is utterly unacceptable for use in a BSD project.

Actually, I am astounded that the OSI would declare such a license
acceptable.

That is not a license which makes it free.  It is a *contract* with
consequences; let me be clear -- it is a contract with consequences
that I am unwilling to accept.

Note that I sell OpenBSD CDs to fund our project.  That contract right
there says in term 7:

	If Theo accidentally sells a CD to
	North Korea, the US can fuck him.

Thanks OSI.  Thanks for being so damn patriotic.

It also says in term 4:

	Sell this in a product in ways which "we" do not like, and the
	contract you have accepted says you can be fucked by anyone
	who owns this license later and who decides they want to fuck you.

Who is "we".  You don't read term 4 that way?  Lawyers I talk to read
it that way.  If lawyers I talk to read it that way, why the heck
would I risk ever in the future ending up in a court room with lawyers
who might argue against me like my lawyers suggest might be possible?
I would be stupid to accept such a term.  And come on it says "certain
responsibilities".  Good god.  Are you people dumb to accept such a
term in a legal document?  It is like "your house mortgage can be
considered invalid in certain situations and then we own your house".

Or perhaps you guys are utterly blind to what is happening with IBM
and SCO right now.

The license you propose is NOT FREE SOFTWARE.  I am astounded the OSI
has gone and decided to become an organization that just rubber stamps
things which are not free.  I don't know who they are talking to, but
these "licenses" which they approve are chock full of constraints
against various segments of the user community.

Wisen up plan9 guys -- keep your software commercial or just make it
free.  Say "Public domain" or say "Copyright us, do anything except
don't claim someone else wrote it", -- or keep it commercial.  These
continual lies wrapped up in contract law are ... such a farce -- why
is it that none of you have the guts to just give it away like the
good people at Berkeley did years and years ago?  Are you really that
gutless?  Did Kirk and Keith and Kirk really understand something
about freedom which you guys don't?  Are all of you really that
trapped that you can't escape the legal frameworks presented to you by
lawyers?  Were those Berkeley guys on drugs when they decided to make
all that stuff "free except give us credit", and like wow man,
suddenly all sorts of stuff from sockets to half of libc ended up
being based on their cope.  Or is it the plan9 people who hold major
delusions?

We've made OpenSSH so free that it is being included not just in
generic purpose operating systems, but also in routers, switches, and
reportedly soon even in POSTSCRIPT PRINTERS... from *major vendors*...
because we are FED UP with one-off crap security software being put
into these devices; because MY security depends on the security of
YOUR NETWORK DEVICE; hence we would rather supply a complete 'plug and
play' solution that any vendor can just merge into their product
BECAUSE THE LICENSE IS UTTERLY STARK AND CLEAR AND FREE.  But
increasingly I am becoming convinces that anyone who has ever worked
for AT&T or Bell Labs does not UNDERSTAND what makes networks more
secure -- and it is, surprise, FREE DISCLOSURE OF THE SIMPLE STUFF.

Were we on Berkeley drugs when we decided to make OpenSSH that free?

Who on this list is using OpenSSH?  Who wants to use something less
free instead?

Put another way... do you guys have some kick ass technology that you
want to change the world, or don't you?  The latest rave vibe on the
internet appears to be that free software is changing the world a lot.
You don't want to be part of that?  Besides being part of all *BSD and
Linux operating systems, OpenSSH is also part of most non-Linux
Unix-like operating systems, but you might have noticed that many of
those systems do not ship with other GNU software by default; like
pick Solaris.  Solaris includes OpenSSH.  Name some GNU software
included by default, ok?  The point is, a SSH server MATTERS.  That
there is a free one matters even more.

There's a reason.  You write a license like you have written here, and
vendors get afraid.  I urge you to write something much simpler.

I am willing to speak this way because after two years of discussion
with plan9 people, it has become clear to me that this compiler will
never be free enough for us to use.  If that changes as a result of
this mail, good.  If not, fine -- I have given up hope.

I urge everyone in power regarding this issue to think this through --
and then, make your simple compiler which we can build into a trusted
component FREE, or, if you don't, sometime in the next few years
something else which is simple and matches it in power, can and might
and probably will show up (because it is clear the gnu bloat compiler
will never achieve such a goal...)

After all, why would you spend so much effort building something so
kick-ass if in the end very few people use it.

- ---

Below is an example license to be used for new code in OpenBSD,
modeled after the ISC license.

It is important to specify the year of the copyright.  Additional years
should be separated by a comma, e.g.
    Copyright (c) 2003, 2004

If you add extra text to the body of the license, be careful not to
add further restrictions.

/*
 * Copyright (c) CCYY YOUR NAME HERE <user@your.dom.ain>
 *
 * Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software for any
 * purpose with or without fee is hereby granted, provided that the above
 * copyright notice and this permission notice appear in all copies.
 *
 * THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS" AND THE AUTHOR DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES
 * WITH REGARD TO THIS SOFTWARE INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF
 * MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR
 * ANY SPECIAL, DIRECT, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES
 * WHATSOEVER RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, WHETHER IN AN
 * ACTION OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, ARISING OUT OF
 * OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THIS SOFTWARE.
 */



             reply	other threads:[~2003-06-17 16:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 100+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-06-17 16:04 Theo de Raadt [this message]
2003-06-17 17:02 ` C H Forsyth
2003-06-17 18:15   ` Charles Forsyth
2003-06-17 18:38 ` Tom Glinos
2003-06-17 17:46   ` Russ Cox, rsc
2003-06-17 21:27     ` Tom Glinos
2003-06-17 18:13   ` Donald Brownlee
2003-06-17 20:39 ` northern snowfall
2003-06-17 21:19   ` northern snowfall
2003-06-18 10:11 ` matt
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-07-09  3:33 A. Baker
2003-07-11  1:41 ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-20 14:39 Richard C Bilson
2003-06-20  9:30 Andrew Simmons
2003-06-19 19:59 Scott Schwartz
2003-06-19 20:08 ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-19 19:24 ot
2003-06-19 19:50 ` Dan Cross
2003-06-19 19:56   ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-19 18:13 ot
2003-06-19 18:19 ` David Presotto
2003-06-20  8:39   ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-06-19 18:50 ` Dan Cross
2003-06-19 18:55   ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-19  9:34 Keith Nash
2003-06-19 13:51 ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-19 13:54   ` David Presotto
2003-06-19 14:09     ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-19 16:44   ` Erik Terpstra
2003-06-19 17:13     ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-19 17:35     ` Dan Cross
2003-06-19 17:52       ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-19 21:33         ` Jack Johnson
2003-06-20 14:05           ` Jason Gurtz
2003-06-20 14:08             ` Lucio De Re
2003-06-20 14:30               ` Jason Gurtz
2003-06-19 21:34         ` Jack Johnson
2003-06-19 23:19           ` Dan Cross
2003-06-20  1:52             ` George Michaelson
2003-06-20  2:32               ` Geoff Collyer
2003-06-20  2:40                 ` Geoff Collyer
2003-06-20  6:55                   ` Dan Cross
2003-06-20  2:56                 ` andrey mirtchovski
2003-06-20  2:43               ` Stephen Wynne
2003-06-20  6:54               ` Dan Cross
2003-06-20  7:05                 ` Dan Cross
2003-06-23  8:56                 ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-06-23 15:22                 ` rog
2003-06-20  8:20           ` John Murdie
2003-06-20 15:31             ` splite
2003-06-20 17:24               ` John Murdie
2003-06-19 17:51     ` David Presotto
2003-06-19 18:15       ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-19 20:14         ` ron minnich
2003-06-23  8:58           ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-06-20  5:01       ` Lucio De Re
2003-06-18  9:34 Markus Friedl
2003-06-18 14:45 ` Dan Cross
2003-06-18 14:48   ` andrey mirtchovski
2003-06-18 16:21     ` northern snowfall
2003-06-18 15:41       ` Markus Friedl
2003-06-18 16:32         ` northern snowfall
2003-06-18 17:12         ` Charles Forsyth
2003-06-18 16:22     ` Dan Cross
2003-06-18 17:09     ` Charles Forsyth
2003-06-20  7:52   ` Markus Friedl
2003-06-18 18:40 ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-18 20:25   ` ron minnich
2003-06-18 21:01     ` rob pike, esq.
2003-06-18 21:04     ` Jack Johnson
2003-06-18 21:02       ` boyd, rounin
     [not found] <42999790ecb672f64d9fe046cb284a9d@plan9.bell-labs.com>
2003-06-17 21:56 ` Donald Brownlee
2003-06-17 18:45 presotto
2003-06-17 18:18 David Presotto
2003-06-17 18:01 David Presotto
2003-06-18  2:55 ` Andrey S. Kukhar
     [not found] <cf335ed380f1abb103f54acc1a307830@plan9.bell-labs.com>
2003-06-17 17:33 ` Theo de Raadt
2003-06-17 17:09 David Presotto
2003-06-17 16:52 Theo de Raadt
2003-06-17 17:10 ` Dan Cross
2003-06-17 18:26   ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-18  8:58 ` ozan s yigit
2003-06-18 14:52   ` Dan Cross
2003-07-03  9:41 ` Wesley Parish
2003-07-03 17:29   ` D. Brownlee
2003-06-17 16:38 Russ Cox, rsc
2003-06-17 17:13 ` David Presotto
2003-06-17 17:50 ` Damian Gerow
2003-06-17 17:57   ` Russ Cox, rsc
2003-06-17 18:07     ` Damian Gerow
2003-06-17 10:28 Theo de Raadt
2003-06-17 20:49 ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-17 21:01   ` David Presotto
2003-06-17 21:26     ` Jack Johnson
2003-06-17 21:28     ` Dan Cross
2003-06-20 12:31       ` Ralph Corderoy
2003-06-20 12:57         ` matt
2003-06-23  8:56         ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-06-23  9:02         ` Anthony Mandic
2003-06-23 14:45           ` Jack Johnson

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