[9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Purple_Q]

Greets all. I'll cut straight to the chase for those who don't like
reading long posts, else please bare with me and read this entire post
so you can offer an opinion.

I would like to erect a site that aims to show Plan9 in a more user/
desktop direction for those who share the enthusiast/niche category. I
want to put up a site with information for users; not how to manage a
mainframe or something, but with info like how to download and install
3rd party apps, how to access usb keys and install apps (for those
like me who's ethernet card doesn't work in plan9), and things like
how to burn CD's, how to add users and "faces", how to change the
background (if that can even be done).
In short; simple user functions. Plan9, while I know there are some
here that would disagree, never seemed to me to be geared towards the
casual desktop user (it is a research OS no?). I would like to show it
in a different light, with help from anyone here who will contribute
walkthrus, command strings, and howtos.
I also wouldn't mind if enough of the community would elect someone
(if interested) that I would give FTP access to, to help manage the
site and add things, etc.

What do you think?

Now for the more patient readers; here's the HOW and WHY.
For the HOW;
I have a corny little personal homesite at www.queuevonqu.com
I pay just short of $15 a month for unlimited webspace. I have a half
serious, half for fun project as a chiptune producer (which if you're
not familiar, chiptune is a genre of electronic music that is made
using the sound hardware of vintage video game systems or computer
hardware, in my case, a pair of Atari 2600's). The website address is
www.bitpusher2600.net.
See, I bought the domain name from GoDaddy and have it set up to
forward to the actual address, which is a subdomain on my homesite :
bitpusher2600.queuevonqu.com

I am thinking that if I get enough support from the board here
(digital support, NOT money), I will make the same setup with
something like "plan9-4u.net" or "plan9desktop.net" or something like
that (name suggestions welcome!)

For the WHY:
I grew up with (and my first computer as a child for xmas) was an
Apple. I got some PC experience much later. Anyway, I was around 17 or
so when someone introduced me to linux. He had several distros and at
first I was intrigued, but not overly impressed. I tried quite a few
in a month's time until I came upon Slackware. He told me of all of
them to use and learn on, that one was the toughest he had and is
considered quite advanced. Being someone who sees sheer beauty in
minimalism, I was loving it's lack of "over guification".

I experienced this MAGNETISM, I couldn't stop thinking about what I
was seeing and would day dream about it often. Unbelievable emotion. I
used it for just a hair over 9 years straight, never even trying
another distro because I loved what I had and was quite comfortable.
The same thing happened when I met a fella online recently who was a
nut for FreeBSD. We got to talking in a forum and he told me "if
you're a Slackware veteran, you'll almost be quite at home, and plus
blah blah blah" (onward with the list of advantages and superiority of
it compared to linux). That was just a couple months ago, nowadays i'm
a pure FreeBSD user.

Why tell all of that? I'm experiencing the same feelings with Plan9,
though the funny thing is I can hardly do a damn thing with it at the
moment. I have no clue how to access my thumb drive, how to install
3rd party software, etc. I need walkthrus and etc, people to "hold my
hand" along the way. How to do simple user tasks.

I can't help it though, i'm totally "in love" with this OS and am
driven to figure it out, which is why I bother you kind folks all the
time :)

So indeed, it's a learning experience for me. I'd like to take
everything a desktop user (like me) can learn in Plan9 and put it up
for direct and easy reference for others. Also, to help promote Plan9
and bring it to the attention of fellow linux and BSD geeks who might
enjoy using it. I realize it's not got alot of modern things, like
flash and java, I don't know that it has IM or the such either, but I
thought I read somewhere once that Mplayer works for it???

If you've read all of this i'm very grateful. I really would like to
put up a minimalistic, simple website for end-users to learn simple
and common "desktop" administration, myself included.

**For those who would like to help;
I will give you credit on each walkthru, howto, command string, etc
you are willing to help with however you want me to (name, alias,
email, url link, etc).
Help a complete newbie help other newbies! I want to bring more light
to Plan9.

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[John Floren]

I think a lot of this info is on the Wiki already--USB disks, faces,
adding users, changing the background (come on, read the man page).
We've also had various newbies come in and promise to create a great,
simple site for users, but it never goes anywhere. I'd suggest looking
more closely at the Wiki, maybe creating some pages there and linking
them all from a "For New Users" page.

John

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Purple_Q <bitpusher2600@gmail.com> wrote:
> Greets all. I'll cut straight to the chase for those who don't like
> reading long posts, else please bare with me and read this entire post
> so you can offer an opinion.
>
> I would like to erect a site that aims to show Plan9 in a more user/
> desktop direction for those who share the enthusiast/niche category. I
> want to put up a site with information for users; not how to manage a
> mainframe or something, but with info like how to download and install
> 3rd party apps, how to access usb keys and install apps (for those
> like me who's ethernet card doesn't work in plan9), and things like
> how to burn CD's, how to add users and "faces", how to change the
> background (if that can even be done).
> In short; simple user functions. Plan9, while I know there are some
> here that would disagree, never seemed to me to be geared towards the
> casual desktop user (it is a research OS no?). I would like to show it
> in a different light, with help from anyone here who will contribute
> walkthrus, command strings, and howtos.
> I also wouldn't mind if enough of the community would elect someone
> (if interested) that I would give FTP access to, to help manage the
> site and add things, etc.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Now for the more patient readers; here's the HOW and WHY.
> For the HOW;
> I have a corny little personal homesite at www.queuevonqu.com
> I pay just short of $15 a month for unlimited webspace. I have a half
> serious, half for fun project as a chiptune producer (which if you're
> not familiar, chiptune is a genre of electronic music that is made
> using the sound hardware of vintage video game systems or computer
> hardware, in my case, a pair of Atari 2600's). The website address is
> www.bitpusher2600.net.
> See, I bought the domain name from GoDaddy and have it set up to
> forward to the actual address, which is a subdomain on my homesite :
> bitpusher2600.queuevonqu.com
>
> I am thinking that if I get enough support from the board here
> (digital support, NOT money), I will make the same setup with
> something like "plan9-4u.net" or "plan9desktop.net" or something like
> that (name suggestions welcome!)
>
> For the WHY:
> I grew up with (and my first computer as a child for xmas) was an
> Apple. I got some PC experience much later. Anyway, I was around 17 or
> so when someone introduced me to linux. He had several distros and at
> first I was intrigued, but not overly impressed. I tried quite a few
> in a month's time until I came upon Slackware. He told me of all of
> them to use and learn on, that one was the toughest he had and is
> considered quite advanced. Being someone who sees sheer beauty in
> minimalism, I was loving it's lack of "over guification".
>
> I experienced this MAGNETISM, I couldn't stop thinking about what I
> was seeing and would day dream about it often. Unbelievable emotion. I
> used it for just a hair over 9 years straight, never even trying
> another distro because I loved what I had and was quite comfortable.
> The same thing happened when I met a fella online recently who was a
> nut for FreeBSD. We got to talking in a forum and he told me "if
> you're a Slackware veteran, you'll almost be quite at home, and plus
> blah blah blah" (onward with the list of advantages and superiority of
> it compared to linux). That was just a couple months ago, nowadays i'm
> a pure FreeBSD user.
>
> Why tell all of that? I'm experiencing the same feelings with Plan9,
> though the funny thing is I can hardly do a damn thing with it at the
> moment. I have no clue how to access my thumb drive, how to install
> 3rd party software, etc. I need walkthrus and etc, people to "hold my
> hand" along the way. How to do simple user tasks.
>
> I can't help it though, i'm totally "in love" with this OS and am
> driven to figure it out, which is why I bother you kind folks all the
> time :)
>
> So indeed, it's a learning experience for me. I'd like to take
> everything a desktop user (like me) can learn in Plan9 and put it up
> for direct and easy reference for others. Also, to help promote Plan9
> and bring it to the attention of fellow linux and BSD geeks who might
> enjoy using it. I realize it's not got alot of modern things, like
> flash and java, I don't know that it has IM or the such either, but I
> thought I read somewhere once that Mplayer works for it???
>
> If you've read all of this i'm very grateful. I really would like to
> put up a minimalistic, simple website for end-users to learn simple
> and common "desktop" administration, myself included.
>
> **For those who would like to help;
> I will give you credit on each walkthru, howto, command string, etc
> you are willing to help with however you want me to (name, alias,
> email, url link, etc).
> Help a complete newbie help other newbies! I want to bring more light
> to Plan9.
>
>



--
"Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing" -- Rob Pike

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[erik quanstrom]

On Tue Feb 23 11:38:44 EST 2010, slawmaster@gmail.com wrote:
> We've also had various newbies come in and promise to create a great,
> simple site for users, but it never goes anywhere. I'd suggest looking
> more closely at the Wiki, maybe creating some pages there and linking
> them all from a "For New Users" page.

thanks for pointing out the resources on the wiki,
but i don't see how assuming failure is the path
to success.

- erik

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[John Floren]

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 11:43 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
> On Tue Feb 23 11:38:44 EST 2010, slawmaster@gmail.com wrote:
>> We've also had various newbies come in and promise to create a great,
>> simple site for users, but it never goes anywhere. I'd suggest looking
>> more closely at the Wiki, maybe creating some pages there and linking
>> them all from a "For New Users" page.
>
> thanks for pointing out the resources on the wiki,
> but i don't see how assuming failure is the path
> to success.
>
> - erik
>

Well, the problem is that by putting everything out on your own
website, it's more of a trek to get there from the Wiki, which should
basically be the first point for any Plan 9 questions. When one person
controls the site, there's a bottleneck making it more difficult for
other people to share their newbie resources; if instead Purple_Q
creates a "Newbie Resources" page on the wiki, everybody can link in
their own stuff as well.

I definitely like the idea of having more resources for new users, and
if Purple_Q is willing to put in the time, that's excellent.


John
--
"Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing" -- Rob Pike

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[erik quanstrom]

> Well, the problem is that by putting everything out on your own
> website, it's more of a trek to get there from the Wiki, which should
> basically be the first point for any Plan 9 questions. When one person
> controls the site, there's a bottleneck making it more difficult for
> other people to share their newbie resources; [...]

the wiki is pretty limiting.  how do you easily put a jpg or pdf up there?
how do you edit from the web securely?  why can't we post .ms documents
directly?

are you volunteering?  ☺

- erik

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Purple_Q]

I can see the point you're trying to make. There's alot of flexibility
in what can be done with a website though. In short; anything. I think
it leaves for a more enjoyable experience for the user too. An easy
link to remember (whatever the site name will be), space to store
files, screenshots, etc.

And yes, if you read my story, there's no exaggeration. I want to do
this, and have the resources available. I'm not thinking of an
immaculate site that is the "end all" of user experience or learning
Plan9 by no means. Just something simple, easy to navigate, perhaps
even a pleasure to read. Might have to toss up good ol' propaganda
too, because who doesn't love Glenda?

My site has been up for quite a while, and I have no intentions of
taking it down anytime soon as it serves alot of purposes for me, so
if I indeed put up this site, it won't be going anywhere for a long
time, because other than a yearly $10, it won't cost me anything. I'd
just be using a little bit of the unlimited storage capacity. Eh? :)

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[John Stalker]

When I was learning FreeBSD I found this site helpful:
http://www.freebsddiary.org/

I think the thing that really makes the FreeBSD Diary work is a
lack of grand ambitions.  The guy who maintains it doesn't try to
cover everything, and generally doesn't try to explain things he
doesn't understand.  He doesn't normally try to update old entries,
and often goes months without doing anything.  But he has been
doing this for 12 years now, and has accumulated a good collection
of articles.  As far as I can tell, whenever he needs to do something
moderately complicated which is not well documented, he makes notes
and then describes how he did things and posts it.

It would be nice to have something like that for plan9.
--
John Stalker
School of Mathematics
Trinity College Dublin
tel +353 1 896 1983
fax +353 1 896 2282

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Eric Van Hensbergen]

I personally like the inferno programmers notebook style - it's a nice
way of documenting tips and tricks as well as introducing quick and
dirty apps.  I've long thought it a shame we don't have something
similar for Plan 9.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 24, 2010, at 5:26 AM, John Stalker <stalker@maths.tcd.ie> wrote:

> When I was learning FreeBSD I found this site helpful:
> http://www.freebsddiary.org/
>
> I think the thing that really makes the FreeBSD Diary work is a
> lack of grand ambitions.  The guy who maintains it doesn't try to
> cover everything, and generally doesn't try to explain things he
> doesn't understand.  He doesn't normally try to update old entries,
> and often goes months without doing anything.  But he has been
> doing this for 12 years now, and has accumulated a good collection
> of articles.  As far as I can tell, whenever he needs to do something
> moderately complicated which is not well documented, he makes notes
> and then describes how he did things and posts it.
>
> It would be nice to have something like that for plan9.
> --
> John Stalker
> School of Mathematics
> Trinity College Dublin
> tel +353 1 896 1983
> fax +353 1 896 2282
>

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[David Leimbach]

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I second this.  I've found those posts to be amazingly good.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 5:23 AM, Eric Van Hensbergen <ericvh@gmail.com>wrote:

> I personally like the inferno programmers notebook style - it's a nice way
> of documenting tips and tricks as well as introducing quick and dirty apps.
>  I've long thought it a shame we don't have something similar for Plan 9.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Feb 24, 2010, at 5:26 AM, John Stalker <stalker@maths.tcd.ie> wrote:
>
>  When I was learning FreeBSD I found this site helpful:
>> http://www.freebsddiary.org/
>>
>> I think the thing that really makes the FreeBSD Diary work is a
>> lack of grand ambitions.  The guy who maintains it doesn't try to
>> cover everything, and generally doesn't try to explain things he
>> doesn't understand.  He doesn't normally try to update old entries,
>> and often goes months without doing anything.  But he has been
>> doing this for 12 years now, and has accumulated a good collection
>> of articles.  As far as I can tell, whenever he needs to do something
>> moderately complicated which is not well documented, he makes notes
>> and then describes how he did things and posts it.
>>
>> It would be nice to have something like that for plan9.
>> --
>> John Stalker
>> School of Mathematics
>> Trinity College Dublin
>> tel +353 1 896 1983
>> fax +353 1 896 2282
>>
>>
>

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Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Purple_Q]

Well, i'll look more closely at the wiki, but I'm dead serious about
putting up a site. You forget; I already own a domain and server
space.

$10 and about a half an hour in my WYSIWYG editor and i've got a site
up.
Yes and I am a newbie, and no, i've read alot of over my head stuff
but nothing simple and forward. I don't know that i've spent alot of
time on the wiki. My mistake perhaps.

If I can't get the support of at least some of the community, it can't
happen because i'm not versed enough in the intricacies of Plan9 to
run such a site alone.

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[K T Kutani]

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Hash: SHA1

I think a good idea, especially early on, for any such newbie site
would be a method to submit questions.  Not quite a FAQ, I mean, but
a list of things to cover, and anyone can answer as desires, or they
can be posited to this list directly for comment.

I mean, if we just put a site out there, maybe it will attract
attention and maybe it won't, but if we have a sort of to-do list of
topics to cover, and at least one person makes a point of bringing items
in that list up with the community, I think it could grow at a very
nice rate and be very usable very quickly.

As I see it, there are a few main functions to cover:
Someone to manage the site
Someone to manage topics
Someone to answer topic items (even if 'answering' is via asking 9fans
etc)
Someone to trawl the 9fans archive for good 'newbie' info or already-
answered questions.

Obviously these could be covered all by one person, or by many.

IMHO the wiki is poorly organized and often lacking; if not in
information, then in explanation.  An improvement to it would be
great, and I agree that it would be best to keep as much information
there as possible.  But, improvements there may be more of a project,
and I don't see a problem with a sort of joint-venture between the
wiki and an external site until the wiki is capable enough.

Eh, just rambling thoughts.

- -K


Purple_Q wrote:
> Well, i'll look more closely at the wiki, but I'm dead serious
> about putting up a site. You forget; I already own a domain and
> server space.
>
> $10 and about a half an hour in my WYSIWYG editor and i've got a
> site up. Yes and I am a newbie, and no, i've read alot of over my
> head stuff but nothing simple and forward. I don't know that i've
> spent alot of time on the wiki. My mistake perhaps.
>
> If I can't get the support of at least some of the community, it
> can't happen because i'm not versed enough in the intricacies of
> Plan9 to run such a site alone.

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Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[hiro]

We don't like web sites :P

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Tim Newsham]

> $10 and about a half an hour in my WYSIWYG editor and i've got a site
> up.

If you believe in Plan9, why not make the site using plan9?
If you can't eat the dogfood, why try to sell it to others?

Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Purple_Q]

You just gave me an idea. Perhaps add a php or smf forum to the site?

[9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Dave Eckhardt]

This is pretty darn useful:

  http://www.quanstro.net/newbie-guide.pdf

and could be extended in some of the ways you mentioned (faces,
how to find useful images such as bootable-USB, VMware, etc.).

Also, for a while the Tokyo Inferno/Plan 9 User Group (tip9ug.jp)
ran a service where pretty much anybody could get an account on
a Plan 9 machine.  They seem down now... if it's not temporary,
something like that could be a real service.

Dave Eckhardt

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Steve Simon]

> Also, for a while the Tokyo Inferno/Plan 9 User Group (tip9ug.jp)
> ran a service where pretty much anybody could get an account on
> a Plan 9 machine.  They seem down now... if it's not temporary,
> something like that could be a real service.

I still use it from time to time, and though I agree its down at
the moment but it has been reliable for many years now.

-Steve

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[David Leimbach]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 809 bytes --]

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote:

> > Also, for a while the Tokyo Inferno/Plan 9 User Group (tip9ug.jp)
> > ran a service where pretty much anybody could get an account on
> > a Plan 9 machine.  They seem down now... if it's not temporary,
> > something like that could be a real service.
>
> I still use it from time to time, and though I agree its down at
> the moment but it has been reliable for many years now.
>
> -Steve
>
>

I keep forgetting my password, and blowing away my keys locally, changing my
plan 9 machine.  Net result is I never had to remember the password thanks
to the convenience of factotum and other parts of the system that make it
easy to avoid memorizing the password, but then I can't get back into my
stuff :-)

Dave

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Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[David Leimbach]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1239 bytes --]

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:20 PM, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
>
>> > Also, for a while the Tokyo Inferno/Plan 9 User Group (tip9ug.jp)
>> > ran a service where pretty much anybody could get an account on
>> > a Plan 9 machine.  They seem down now... if it's not temporary,
>> > something like that could be a real service.
>>
>> I still use it from time to time, and though I agree its down at
>> the moment but it has been reliable for many years now.
>>
>> -Steve
>>
>>
>
> I keep forgetting my password, and blowing away my keys locally, changing
> my plan 9 machine.  Net result is I never had to remember the password
> thanks to the convenience of factotum and other parts of the system that
> make it easy to avoid memorizing the password, but then I can't get back
> into my stuff :-)
>
>
I keep thinking one day I'll set up a public CPU server, I've got a good
chunk of bandwidth available, just not a lot of time to maintain stuff.
 It'd be really cool if I could just do the CPU part, and someone else do
the storage :-).

Is there an Amazon S3 based 9P server?   Just thinking out loud...

Dave

>

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Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Steve Simon]

> Is there an Amazon S3 based 9P server?   Just thinking out loud...

I thought brucee had one?

-Steve

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Lyndon Nerenberg]

>> Is there an Amazon S3 based 9P server?   Just thinking out loud...
> I thought brucee had one?

Look in contrib? This sounds familiar.

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[erik quanstrom]

On Tue Feb 23 19:21:38 EST 2010, lyndon@orthanc.ca wrote:
> >> Is there an Amazon S3 based 9P server?   Just thinking out loud...
> > I thought brucee had one?
>
> Look in contrib? This sounds familiar.
>

/n/other/sources/contrib/rcbilson/s3venti

- erik

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[David Leimbach]

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On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 4:25 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>wrote:

> On Tue Feb 23 19:21:38 EST 2010, lyndon@orthanc.ca wrote:
> > >> Is there an Amazon S3 based 9P server?   Just thinking out loud...
> > > I thought brucee had one?
> >
> > Look in contrib? This sounds familiar.
> >
>
> /n/other/sources/contrib/rcbilson/s3venti
>

Ah I hadn't looked there... Thanks!


>
> - erik
>
>

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Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[hiro]

Isn't storage more or less free these days?
I use plan9 on a hard drive with less bits than my RAM, but of course
I don't run any video streaming services on there.

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[hiro]

Sorry, my last post should refer to this:

On 2/24/10, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:20 PM, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
>>
>>> > Also, for a while the Tokyo Inferno/Plan 9 User Group (tip9ug.jp)
>>> > ran a service where pretty much anybody could get an account on
>>> > a Plan 9 machine.  They seem down now... if it's not temporary,
>>> > something like that could be a real service.
>>>
>>> I still use it from time to time, and though I agree its down at
>>> the moment but it has been reliable for many years now.
>>>
>>> -Steve
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I keep forgetting my password, and blowing away my keys locally, changing
>> my plan 9 machine.  Net result is I never had to remember the password
>> thanks to the convenience of factotum and other parts of the system that
>> make it easy to avoid memorizing the password, but then I can't get back
>> into my stuff :-)
>>
>>
> I keep thinking one day I'll set up a public CPU server, I've got a good
> chunk of bandwidth available, just not a lot of time to maintain stuff.
>  It'd be really cool if I could just do the CPU part, and someone else do
> the storage :-).
>
> Is there an Amazon S3 based 9P server?   Just thinking out loud...
>
> Dave
>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[erik quanstrom]

On Tue Feb 23 14:47:01 EST 2010, davide+p9@cs.cmu.edu wrote:
> This is pretty darn useful:
>
>   http://www.quanstro.net/newbie-guide.pdf
>
> and could be extended in some of the ways you mentioned (faces,
> how to find useful images such as bootable-USB, VMware, etc.).

for the moment, the author continues to maintain
this document.  i just put up a micro update today.

i'd be more than happy to keep other helpful documents
up and up-to-date, provided they earn their keep.

- erik

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Purple_Q]

Very well, i'll drop the idea then. It's just a shame there's no easy
and direct way to find out how to do some of the stuff I mentioned in
the original post.

To Tim;
Why do you suppose I use a wysiwyg editor to begin with? I don't know
squat about writing webpages, also, I don't know how to set up or
configure a web server. My webspace is thru Yahoo's paid services, and
I chose them because they give you alot for cheap, and they are a no
nonsense provider. They don't interfere in anything I choose to do.

On top of that, knowing you have no idea who I am, I come from a
background of a non-IT, non college educated, self (and forum) taught
user. I've Slackware exclusively for just a snootch shy of a decade,
having recently switched to BSD. It is sufficient to say that whilst
i'm not a guru or master of the trade, I am very proficient in
userland things, like installing software, maintaining the system,
building kernels, etc. I have yet to figure out how to do the simple
things I mentioned above (what about accessing usb sticks, installing
3rd party software, etc). I can't find a simple straight "do this to
do this" type of document on many simple user functions. How can
someone who would give Plan9 a chance with an even lesser background
in unix like enviroments like myself figure these things out?

Praise be due to those who are more resourceful or generally smarter
in these matters than I, but being quite comfortable with CLI and not
being able to find a simple and straight way to do desktop/basic users
tasks was the motivation behind this whole idea.

I'm sorry my offer to help seems of no use.
Since it is my webspace, I may just do it anyway, presuming I learn
some of the things I need to. There may be other sites, a wiki, and
etc., but I see zero harm in trying to help others learn this system,
even if it be from my slow journey and blunders along the way.

Trust me, if I could afford the costs i'd have to pay my ISP, had the
hardware, and the knowledge to set up and secure a Plan9 web server,
i'd do it in a heartbeat, but hardware and funding aside, I don't
remotely have the knowledge of either webservers in general, or plan9
specifically.

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Tim Newsham]

> To Tim;
> Why do you suppose I use a wysiwyg editor to begin with? I don't know
> squat about writing webpages, also, I don't know how to set up or
> configure a web server. My webspace is thru Yahoo's paid services, and
> I chose them because they give you alot for cheap, and they are a no
> nonsense provider. They don't interfere in anything I choose to do.

*shrug* that makes sense I guess, but...
If you were to use plan9 for this, it would give you an
excuse to learn how to do it in plan9, and along the way
to become more familiar and comfortable with plan9.

Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[ron minnich]

I've just had someone here try to install reFit on her Mac. She got it
done in spite of the wikis. There's so much wrong info out on the web
now in the form of wikis that it was all virtually useless. I become
more disappointed in wikis as the years go by.

Even the Plan 9 wiki has instructions in it that are not quite right
any more. If you're determined to do a wiki, perhaps you could do it
by offering corrections and additions to that one, rather than a new
one.

A wiki is a thing separate and apart from a Plan 9 file system, and
people have to go find it. Invariably, there are errors and problems
and info gets out of date. It's not synced to man pages or other
documents.  I don't like to assume failure either but after the n'th
time somebody has offered to put up a wiki and it's followed the same
sad trajectory, well, I end up feeling that wiki is the wrong model.
It's like the CADT model applied to support.

The standard Plan 9 information-passing mechanism is the man pages.
The standard script for "mount this stuff" are tools like 9fat and
9fs. Maybe the real problem is we need more scripts to help people
along.

It leads me to wonder if you could not glean what you need to know and
create a script called '9usb', for example. Once it's in there as a
script it's there for good and might even get maintained.

Sorry to be so discouraging, I just think the wiki is not going to do
what you want.

ron

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Federico G. Benavento]

is this some sort of MVS type of spam?

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Purple_Q <bitpusher2600@gmail.com> wrote:
> Greets all. I'll cut straight to the chase for those who don't like
> reading long posts, else please bare with me and read this entire post
> so you can offer an opinion.
>
> I would like to erect a site that aims to show Plan9 in a more user/
> desktop direction for those who share the enthusiast/niche category. I
> want to put up a site with information for users; not how to manage a
> mainframe or something, but with info like how to download and install
> 3rd party apps, how to access usb keys and install apps (for those
> like me who's ethernet card doesn't work in plan9), and things like
> how to burn CD's, how to add users and "faces", how to change the
> background (if that can even be done).
> In short; simple user functions. Plan9, while I know there are some
> here that would disagree, never seemed to me to be geared towards the
> casual desktop user (it is a research OS no?). I would like to show it
> in a different light, with help from anyone here who will contribute
> walkthrus, command strings, and howtos.
> I also wouldn't mind if enough of the community would elect someone
> (if interested) that I would give FTP access to, to help manage the
> site and add things, etc.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Now for the more patient readers; here's the HOW and WHY.
> For the HOW;
> I have a corny little personal homesite at www.queuevonqu.com
> I pay just short of $15 a month for unlimited webspace. I have a half
> serious, half for fun project as a chiptune producer (which if you're
> not familiar, chiptune is a genre of electronic music that is made
> using the sound hardware of vintage video game systems or computer
> hardware, in my case, a pair of Atari 2600's). The website address is
> www.bitpusher2600.net.
> See, I bought the domain name from GoDaddy and have it set up to
> forward to the actual address, which is a subdomain on my homesite :
> bitpusher2600.queuevonqu.com
>
> I am thinking that if I get enough support from the board here
> (digital support, NOT money), I will make the same setup with
> something like "plan9-4u.net" or "plan9desktop.net" or something like
> that (name suggestions welcome!)
>
> For the WHY:
> I grew up with (and my first computer as a child for xmas) was an
> Apple. I got some PC experience much later. Anyway, I was around 17 or
> so when someone introduced me to linux. He had several distros and at
> first I was intrigued, but not overly impressed. I tried quite a few
> in a month's time until I came upon Slackware. He told me of all of
> them to use and learn on, that one was the toughest he had and is
> considered quite advanced. Being someone who sees sheer beauty in
> minimalism, I was loving it's lack of "over guification".
>
> I experienced this MAGNETISM, I couldn't stop thinking about what I
> was seeing and would day dream about it often. Unbelievable emotion. I
> used it for just a hair over 9 years straight, never even trying
> another distro because I loved what I had and was quite comfortable.
> The same thing happened when I met a fella online recently who was a
> nut for FreeBSD. We got to talking in a forum and he told me "if
> you're a Slackware veteran, you'll almost be quite at home, and plus
> blah blah blah" (onward with the list of advantages and superiority of
> it compared to linux). That was just a couple months ago, nowadays i'm
> a pure FreeBSD user.
>
> Why tell all of that? I'm experiencing the same feelings with Plan9,
> though the funny thing is I can hardly do a damn thing with it at the
> moment. I have no clue how to access my thumb drive, how to install
> 3rd party software, etc. I need walkthrus and etc, people to "hold my
> hand" along the way. How to do simple user tasks.
>
> I can't help it though, i'm totally "in love" with this OS and am
> driven to figure it out, which is why I bother you kind folks all the
> time :)
>
> So indeed, it's a learning experience for me. I'd like to take
> everything a desktop user (like me) can learn in Plan9 and put it up
> for direct and easy reference for others. Also, to help promote Plan9
> and bring it to the attention of fellow linux and BSD geeks who might
> enjoy using it. I realize it's not got alot of modern things, like
> flash and java, I don't know that it has IM or the such either, but I
> thought I read somewhere once that Mplayer works for it???
>
> If you've read all of this i'm very grateful. I really would like to
> put up a minimalistic, simple website for end-users to learn simple
> and common "desktop" administration, myself included.
>
> **For those who would like to help;
> I will give you credit on each walkthru, howto, command string, etc
> you are willing to help with however you want me to (name, alias,
> email, url link, etc).
> Help a complete newbie help other newbies! I want to bring more light
> to Plan9.
>
>



--
Federico G. Benavento

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[José Brandão]

I have come across this tutorial page:

http://www.magma.com.ni/moin/Plan9Tutorial

I think that the owner has been editing this site regularly.

José Brandão

Re: [9fans] How 'bout a 9 USER site?

[Georg Lehner]

Hi!

not regularly, though i have updated some bits recently.

IMHO the Plan9 Wiki should be the place where to contribute.

My tutorial is hosted on my own server, because i came never
around to run Plan9 seriously for everyday use and to ask for an
account there.

Well, i'd miss some MoinMoin functionality too... :)

Regards,

    Jorge-León


José Brandão wrote:
> I have come across this tutorial page:
>
> http://www.magma.com.ni/moin/Plan9Tutorial
>
> I think that the owner has been editing this site regularly.
>
> José Brandão
>
>