Re: [9fans] java

Re: [9fans] java

[okamoto]

> Java promises (but hasn't delivered), then you want
> Limbo and Inferno from www.vitanuova.com.

I dislike those naming of Limbo and Inferno really.
Why developpers selected such, say something like
black humor, ones?

I prefer something suggesting more bright future,
indeed.

kenji

Re: [9fans] java

[Fco.J.Ballesteros]

> I dislike those naming of Limbo and Inferno really.
> Why developpers selected such, say something like
> black humor, ones?
>
> I prefer something suggesting more bright future,
> indeed.

A brighter future that being warmly installed in the flames of Inferno?
Naahhh

Re: [9fans] java

[Bruce Ellis]

If you prefer Hell then choose java.
If you think that Dante was misinformed - I disagree.

----- Original Message -----
From: <okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [9fans] java


> > Java promises (but hasn't delivered), then you want
> > Limbo and Inferno from www.vitanuova.com.
>
> I dislike those naming of Limbo and Inferno really.
> Why developpers selected such, say something like
> black humor, ones?
>
> I prefer something suggesting more bright future,
> indeed.
>
> kenji
>
>

Re: [9fans] java

[will551]

kenji, Lou Reeds new album is all about Edgar Allen Poes
- Dantes Inferno - its called "the raven" and takes the
form of a play - maybe worth a look -
might soften the blow when ure time comes!
l8r
will551

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Ellis" <brucee@chunder.com>
To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [9fans] java


> If you prefer Hell then choose java.
> If you think that Dante was misinformed - I disagree.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> >From: <okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [9fans] java
>
>
> > > Java promises (but hasn't delivered), then you want
> > > Limbo and Inferno from www.vitanuova.com.
> >
> > I dislike those naming of Limbo and Inferno really.
> > Why developpers selected such, say something like
> > black humor, ones?
> >
> > I prefer something suggesting more bright future,
> > indeed.
> >
> > kenji
> >
> >
>
>

Re: [9fans] Java

[Latchesar Ionkov]

If I remember correctly, the CVM port was mostly working, it had some  
problems with the network classes that I didn't bother to fix. I lost  
interest because there was not a practical (i.e. one that doesn't  
require talking to lawyers and managers at Sun) way of distributing  
the port. The license allowed me to share my changes only with  
developers that accepted the same license.  If you accepted their  
license and are interested in finishing the port and/or push the  
changes to newer versions written in C (if they still have something  
written in plain C), I can check if I still have the port.

Thanks,
	Lucho

On Jan 16, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Pietro Gagliardi wrote:

> I read on the Wiki that Kaffe was ported but the download link is  
> broken. I also read that lucho was doing a port on CVM but I can't  
> find much else. Does anyone have any info? Thanks.
>

Re: [9fans] Java

[Bruce Ellis]

yes.  tho' last i saw was a ``Learn To Write A Java Book in 7 Days".
i think it was released just before ``Dummies for Dummies".
Charles and VN have better taste.

brucee

On Jan 17, 2008 7:29 PM, Charles Forsyth <forsyth@terzarima.net> wrote:
> > i did the java class loader for inferno.  it was a pointless
> > exercise, and i told them.  but then i quit.  somehow i was
>
> i'd better point out that Brucee's `them' was Lucent's Inferno Business Unit,
> not Vita Nuova.  they wasted a fair amount of time and money on it.
> we've got the results, including brucee's contributions, but to run any java
> on it (ignoring changes in JVM meanwhile) requires lots of surrounding expensive
> sun proprietary software, which is why it was never included in a distribution.
> since some of the more enthusiastic java puffers have themselves moved on,
> writing books such as ``Beyond Java'', probably there's no point in it now.
> i think it's the worst language i've ever used (and i've used RPG and FORTRAN II).

Re: [9fans] Java

[Charles Forsyth]

> limbo has a css module.

yes, but no one has done the work to get charon (or something else) to use it.
rather than doing that now, it might be worthwhile trying to skip a generation,
since people are starting to realise that there might be other possible interfaces to
the Internet(!).  i've seen a few articles along the lines of ``beyond the browser''.
such novelty!

Re: [9fans] Java

[Robert William Fuller]

Charles Forsyth wrote:
>> limbo has a css module.
> 
> yes, but no one has done the work to get charon (or something else) to use it.
> rather than doing that now, it might be worthwhile trying to skip a generation,
> since people are starting to realise that there might be other possible interfaces to
> the Internet(!).  i've seen a few articles along the lines of ``beyond the browser''.
> such novelty!

Why stop there?  Who needs IP support?  Why support IP?  Surely its days 
are numbered.

Re: [9fans] Java

[Charles Forsyth]

> i did the java class loader for inferno.  it was a pointless
> exercise, and i told them.  but then i quit.  somehow i was

i'd better point out that Brucee's `them' was Lucent's Inferno Business Unit,
not Vita Nuova.  they wasted a fair amount of time and money on it.
we've got the results, including brucee's contributions, but to run any java
on it (ignoring changes in JVM meanwhile) requires lots of surrounding expensive
sun proprietary software, which is why it was never included in a distribution.
since some of the more enthusiastic java puffers have themselves moved on,
writing books such as ``Beyond Java'', probably there's no point in it now.
i think it's the worst language i've ever used (and i've used RPG and FORTRAN II).

Re: [9fans] Java

[Bruce Ellis]

i did the java class loader for inferno.  it was a pointless
exercise, and i told them.  but then i quit.  somehow i was
unimpressed by the situation.

brucee

On Jan 17, 2008 2:48 PM, Federico G. Benavento <benavento@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 16, 2008 11:58 PM, Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com> wrote:
> >> Does Plan 9 have a native limbo compiler? I tried Inferno once. It
> >> was slow, and Charon didn't have CSS, so pages were as ugly as on
> >> abaco (which is part of what I'm working on: using X11 to compile a
> >> foreign browser).
>
> I have most of the X11 libs ported to Plan 9, so I can compile things like
> xeyes, of course I don't have an Xserver, yet...
>
> I'd built an SDL kdrive X server, but as soon as a client connects it crashes
> I thought it was SDL port's fault, so I built Xvfb which does everything in
> a virtual framebuffer and had the same problem, so it's not SDL's fault.
>
> my guess is that the problem is between X and ape's select/listen/etc.
>
> now, the question is why do I want X, well...
>
> http://www.tip9ug.jp/who/fgb/opera9.jpg
>
> there you have opera and Xvnc under linuxemu and a vncv(1) window
> to display everything. so, yes I have opera on Plan 9 (thanks to cinap)
> but it's kinda overkill.
>
> if anyone wants to help with the debugging , mail me off list
>
> oh, and about limbo on Plan 9, of course that there is a native limbo
> compiler for Plan 9, you'll have to to run your .dis inside limbo,
> but that's not problem at all, because inferno doesn't waste your
> memory.
>
>
> Federico G. Benavento
>
> ---
> /bin/fortune:
> ERROR CREEPOUT HAS BEGUN
>
>

Re: [9fans] Java

[Federico G. Benavento]

> On Jan 16, 2008 11:58 PM, Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com> wrote:
>> Does Plan 9 have a native limbo compiler? I tried Inferno once. It
>> was slow, and Charon didn't have CSS, so pages were as ugly as on
>> abaco (which is part of what I'm working on: using X11 to compile a
>> foreign browser).

I have most of the X11 libs ported to Plan 9, so I can compile things like
xeyes, of course I don't have an Xserver, yet...

I'd built an SDL kdrive X server, but as soon as a client connects it crashes
I thought it was SDL port's fault, so I built Xvfb which does everything in
a virtual framebuffer and had the same problem, so it's not SDL's fault.

my guess is that the problem is between X and ape's select/listen/etc.

now, the question is why do I want X, well...

http://www.tip9ug.jp/who/fgb/opera9.jpg

there you have opera and Xvnc under linuxemu and a vncv(1) window
to display everything. so, yes I have opera on Plan 9 (thanks to cinap)
but it's kinda overkill.

if anyone wants to help with the debugging , mail me off list

oh, and about limbo on Plan 9, of course that there is a native limbo
compiler for Plan 9, you'll have to to run your .dis inside limbo, 
but that's not problem at all, because inferno doesn't waste your
memory.


Federico G. Benavento

---
/bin/fortune:
ERROR CREEPOUT HAS BEGUN

Re: [9fans] Java

[Iruata Souza]

On Jan 16, 2008 11:58 PM, Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com> wrote:
> Does Plan 9 have a native limbo compiler? I tried Inferno once. It
> was slow, and Charon didn't have CSS, so pages were as ugly as on
> abaco (which is part of what I'm working on: using X11 to compile a
> foreign browser).
>
>

limbo has a css module.

iru

Re: [9fans] Java

[Pietro Gagliardi]

And PS - I was interested in Java for several, non-related reasons.

On Jan 16, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Pietro Gagliardi wrote:

> Does Plan 9 have a native limbo compiler? I tried Inferno once. It  
> was slow, and Charon didn't have CSS, so pages were as ugly as on  
> abaco (which is part of what I'm working on: using X11 to compile a  
> foreign browser).
>
> On Jan 16, 2008, at 8:04 PM, Yaroslav wrote:
>
>> 2008/1/16, Federico G. Benavento <benavento@gmail.com>:
>>> hola,
>>>
>>>> I read on the Wiki that Kaffe was ported but the download link is
>>>> broken. I also read that lucho was doing a port on CVM but I can't
>>>> find much else. Does anyone have any info? Thanks.
>>>
>>> http://plan9.aichi-u.ac.jp/netlib/kaffe/
>>>
>>> it's really old and why would anyone want java?
>>>
>>>
>> Too lazy to learn limbo?..
>

Re: [9fans] Java

[Pietro Gagliardi]

Does Plan 9 have a native limbo compiler? I tried Inferno once. It  
was slow, and Charon didn't have CSS, so pages were as ugly as on  
abaco (which is part of what I'm working on: using X11 to compile a  
foreign browser).

On Jan 16, 2008, at 8:04 PM, Yaroslav wrote:

> 2008/1/16, Federico G. Benavento <benavento@gmail.com>:
>> hola,
>>
>>> I read on the Wiki that Kaffe was ported but the download link is
>>> broken. I also read that lucho was doing a port on CVM but I can't
>>> find much else. Does anyone have any info? Thanks.
>>
>> http://plan9.aichi-u.ac.jp/netlib/kaffe/
>>
>> it's really old and why would anyone want java?
>>
>>
> Too lazy to learn limbo?..

Re: [9fans] Java

[Yaroslav]

2008/1/16, Federico G. Benavento <benavento@gmail.com>:
> hola,
>
> > I read on the Wiki that Kaffe was ported but the download link is
> > broken. I also read that lucho was doing a port on CVM but I can't
> > find much else. Does anyone have any info? Thanks.
>
> http://plan9.aichi-u.ac.jp/netlib/kaffe/
>
> it's really old and why would anyone want java?
>
>
Too lazy to learn limbo?..

Re: [9fans] Java

[Federico G. Benavento]

hola,

> I read on the Wiki that Kaffe was ported but the download link is  
> broken. I also read that lucho was doing a port on CVM but I can't  
> find much else. Does anyone have any info? Thanks.

http://plan9.aichi-u.ac.jp/netlib/kaffe/

it's really old and why would anyone want java?

[9fans] Java

[Pietro Gagliardi]

I read on the Wiki that Kaffe was ported but the download link is  
broken. I also read that lucho was doing a port on CVM but I can't  
find much else. Does anyone have any info? Thanks.

Re: [9fans] java

[Skip Tavakkolian]

> -The Milgaro Beanfield War
Milagro

Re: [9fans] java

[Skip Tavakkolian]

> Ahoi. Just a short question. Does anyone planning or already implementing the java vm? Sry if its a repost,im using my mobile to post,cant look through the archives atm.

no, and no; happy sailing.

"Look, if we don't know it already, chances are we're not interested." 
-The Milgaro Beanfield War

Re: [9fans] java

[uriel]

> Ahoi.  Just a short question.  Does anyone planning or already
> implementing the java vm?  Sry if its a repost,im using my mobile to
> post,cant look through the archives atm.
There are a few threads about this in the 9fans archives.

Who cares about java?  We have Inferno and Limbo.

If you are feeling really masochistic, like lucho, there is a link to
a port of some JVM somewhere in the wiki, but I can't believe anyone
in their right mind could willingly program in such language,
specially when you have ken C, rc and Limbo to chose from.

uriel

Re: [9fans] java

[andrey mirtchovski]

which answer have you put money on?

On 2/7/06, bituman <bituman@enerla.net> wrote:
> Ahoi. Just a short question. Does anyone planning or already implementing the java vm? Sry if its a repost,im using my mobile to post,cant look through the archives atm.
>
>

[9fans] java

[bituman]

Ahoi. Just a short question. Does anyone planning or already implementing the java vm? Sry if its a repost,im using my mobile to post,cant look through the archives atm.

Re: [9fans] Java

[Michael Jeffrey]

<matt@proweb.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d5515dc7e461baf6037b28de26efc6ed@juice.thebigchoice.com...

> Inferno is perfectly capable of running as a single program
>
> You can even put it in inetd if you were kinky enough or just run it as
it's own listener.

And not just on Linux and UNIX platforms.
Vita Nuova have a collection of Limbo applications that
can orchestrate the execution of programs across a
computational grid consisting of UNIX, Linux and Windows
machines.   A recent customer of ours has connected >250
of their Windows PCs (2000, NT and XP) into a grid.
Inferno manages the execution of the host OS application (Win32
app in this case) and the harvesting of the results.  In this
example Inferno runs as a Windows Service on each
client.  The scheduler, another Inferno application, happens to be running
on Red Hat Linux.

[9fans] Java

[matt]

Inferno can't do administration in the native OS?

Poppycock!

emu -d -r'/home/www/logs' '/usr/matt/process_logs.dis'

(I think that's the correct syntax, I don't have one at hand to test but I did used to run it like that)

Inferno is perfectly capable of running as a single program

You can even put it in inetd if you were kinky enough or just run it as it's own listener.

m

[9fans] java

[peter a. cejchan]

>    This is the VERY BAD part. Java virtualizes a POSIX
>    "computer" with "socket" networking. Why would one

Now I see..

>    If you want the network language type thing that
>    Java promises (but hasn't delivered), then you want
>    Limbo and Inferno from www.vitanuova.com.

I don't want anything like that at all. Just some people decided to write
their code in Java instead of C, even
if it (their code) has nothing to do with web or networking. Eeeh, I'll
better hire a Java programmer to rip out the functionalitz and rewrite it in
C...

Thanks for elucidating me the point,
xcheers,

++pac

Re: [9fans] java

[C H Forsyth]

>>This is the VERY BAD part. Java virtualizes a POSIX
>>"computer" with "socket" networking. Why would one
>>want this anywhere near Plan 9? I thought of ripping
>>that stuff out and replacing it with the Plan 9 equivalents,
>>but then it would not be "Pure Java" and would be unusable.

quite.  it's also interesting how many people think networking is hard
because of all that socket stuff; mimics of the OSI model; and of course W3C.
there are sadly plenty of examples of `filling a much-needed gap'!

Re: [9fans] java

[David Butler]

> > is currently anybody porting java?
>
> Well, if they are, let's get them to stop!

I started this once, a long time ago, and I have to
agree with Ron, it had to be stopped.

Java as a language is not all bad. But, for Java to
be useful to those that *know how to program in
Java*, requires the class libraries, including the ones
that support the computing environment and networking.
This is the VERY BAD part. Java virtualizes a POSIX
"computer" with "socket" networking. Why would one
want this anywhere near Plan 9? I thought of ripping
that stuff out and replacing it with the Plan 9 equivalents,
but then it would not be "Pure Java" and would be unusable.

Linux is the perfect platform for Java.

If you want the network language type thing that
Java promises (but hasn't delivered), then you want
Limbo and Inferno from www.vitanuova.com.

David

Re: [9fans] java

[ron minnich]

On Thu, 10 Apr 2003, peter a. cejchan wrote:

> is currently anybody porting java?

Well, if they are, let's get them to stop!

ron

[9fans] java

[peter a. cejchan]

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Hi,

is currently anybody porting java?

Regards,
++pac.


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