Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Russ Cox]

 > Here's a question; how many people read comp.os.plan9 versus how many people
 > are on 9fans?  The issue has been raised that comp.os.plan9 and 9fans have
 > very different spirits, and should, perhaps, be divorced from one another.
 > What are people's opinions on this?

This seems to come up every year or so.
I don't really understand the argument --
since they are one and the same how can
they have very different spirits?

I like the facts that there is only one place and
that I don't have to use my primitive News
reader to read it.

Russ

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Thomas Bushnell, BSG]

rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com (Russ Cox) writes:

> This seems to come up every year or so.
> I don't really understand the argument --
> since they are one and the same how can
> they have very different spirits?

I believe the problem is that "9fans" (according to its name) is for
fans of Plan 9.  

Whereas comp.os.FOO is for both fans of FOO, people who are skeptical
about FOO, people who want to understand both strengths *and*
weaknesses of FOO, and so forth.

Sometimes there are attempts to say "such and such is inappropriate on
comp.os.plan9, because it is for 9fans only", or other things similar
to that.  

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Lucio De Re]

On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 10:20:24AM +0000, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> 
> Sometimes there are attempts to say "such and such is inappropriate on
> comp.os.plan9, because it is for 9fans only", or other things similar
> to that.  

It's OK, we have a moderator <wink>.

++L

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Matt H]

I'd always assumed they were the same, I hope I'm not missing anything!

I prefer the email version because I already poll my mail server and having to poll the newserver too seems a bit of a waste.

plus I archive my mail and I'm not about to start archiving usenet!

M

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Roger Peppe]

> Here's a question; how many people read comp.os.plan9 versus how many people
> are on 9fans?  The issue has been raised that comp.os.plan9 and 9fans have
> very different spirits, and should, perhaps, be divorced from one another.
> What are people's opinions on this?

i read it by email, but have to respond via usenet these days due to
the broken mail server at cse.psu.edu.

i don't see how they could have different spirits when they they've
always been (more-or-less) the same thing.

whether they *should* be different is another question.  personally i
don't read usenet any more, so if they were split, the mailing list is
the one i'd continue to read (but i'd be unable to post to it, which
would be annoying).

  rog.

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Thomas Bushnell, BSG]

Roger Peppe <rog@vitanuova.com> writes:

> i don't see how they could have different spirits when they they've
> always been (more-or-less) the same thing.

9fans is a mailing list, which culturally, gets whatever charter it
wants.  By its very title, it's a list for fans of Plan 9.

Usenet groups, such as comp.os.FOO have much broader charters.  It is
not reasonable to restrict comp.os.FOO to only fans of FOO.

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Fco.J.Ballesteros]

Please, keep them together ☺.

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Boyd Roberts]

Keep 'em together.

[9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Dan Cross]

Here's a question; how many people read comp.os.plan9 versus how many people
are on 9fans?  The issue has been raised that comp.os.plan9 and 9fans have
very different spirits, and should, perhaps, be divorced from one another.
What are people's opinions on this?

	- Dan C.

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[paurea]

Dan Cross writes:
 > Here's a question; how many people read comp.os.plan9 versus how many people
 > are on 9fans?  The issue has been raised that comp.os.plan9 and 9fans have
 > very different spirits, and should, perhaps, be divorced from one another.
 > What are people's opinions on this?
 > 


I think this is a very little community and splitting it is not a good idea.
Also I like to be able to read 9fans at different places using the news.
-- 
                 Saludos,
                         Gorka

"Curiosity sKilled the cat"

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Sam Hopkins]

Yeah, the ability to use google's deja.com search on the 9fans
has helped me several times.

Sam

On Tuesday 26 February 2002 18:58, you wrote:
> Dan Cross writes:
>  > Here's a question; how many people read comp.os.plan9 versus how many
>  > people are on 9fans?  The issue has been raised that comp.os.plan9 and
>  > 9fans have very different spirits, and should, perhaps, be divorced from
>  > one another. What are people's opinions on this?
>
> I think this is a very little community and splitting it is not a good
> idea. Also I like to be able to read 9fans at different places using the
> news.

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Lucio De Re]

On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 12:46:26PM -0500, Dan Cross wrote:
> 
> Here's a question; how many people read comp.os.plan9 versus how many people
> are on 9fans?  The issue has been raised that comp.os.plan9 and 9fans have
> very different spirits, and should, perhaps, be divorced from one another.
> What are people's opinions on this?
> 
I have no access to Usenet News and in general prefer
the opt-in feature of mailing lists.  But I have provided mail-to-news
gateways in the past because the underlying NetNews system is, in my
opinion, better suited to tracking messages and subject threads.

For 9fans, I think the present approach is quite reasonable and would
not be improved by the obvious change.  There may well be some other
change that would improve matters, but I don't know what that is
likely to be.

++L

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Andrew Simmons]

On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 12:46:26PM -0500, Dan Cross wrote:
> 
> Here's a question; how many people read comp.os.plan9 versus how many people
> are on 9fans?  The issue has been raised that comp.os.plan9 and 9fans have
> very different spirits, and should, perhaps, be divorced from one another.
> What are people's opinions on this?
> 
How would you characterise the different spirits of the two groups, and
what advantage would you see to either group in a split?

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Dan Cross]

> On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 12:46:26PM -0500, Dan Cross wrote:
> > Here's a question; how many people read comp.os.plan9 versus how many people
> > are on 9fans?  The issue has been raised that comp.os.plan9 and 9fans have
> > very different spirits, and should, perhaps, be divorced from one another.
> > What are people's opinions on this?
> 
> How would you characterise the different spirits of the two groups, and
> what advantage would you see to either group in a split?

Well, I wouldn't necessarily say that they have two different spirits;
the issue was raised to me, not the other way around.

	- Dan C.

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Andrew Simmons]

>
>Well, I wouldn't necessarily say that they have two different spirits;
>the issue was raised to me, not the other way around.
>
>	- Dan C.
>
It's hard to see any point in changing, unless the person who raised the
issue has a really compelling justification.

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Dan Cross]

It certainly seems that the overwhelming majority would like to see things
remain as they are.

	- Dan C.

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[George Michaelson]

> It certainly seems that the overwhelming majority would like to see things
> remain as they are.

I would sometimes like a digest with gated entry. 9fans is the torah which
as we know, can mean anything to kabbalists depending on what dice-throw
algorithm they use to select the words to read. 

A monoatheistical selection of the analects would be more useful

	'The gospel according to pike'

being different to:

	'The apocryphal book of boyd'

but both having their place.

Of course, we also need a concordance. And, translation into Aramaic.

-George

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Andrew Simmons]

George Michaelson  wrote:
>
>A monoatheistical selection of the analects would be more useful
>
>	'The gospel according to pike'
>
>being different to:
>
>	'The apocryphal book of boyd'
>
>but both having their place.
>
Good concept. Perhaps we could also have a special section for the words of
the prophet Bushnell, crying out in the wilderness - "The GNU Public
Licence is a jealous Licence, Thou shalt have none other Licence but me"

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Thomas Bushnell, BSG]

andrew@mbmnz.co.nz (Andrew Simmons) writes:

> Good concept. Perhaps we could also have a special section for the words of
> the prophet Bushnell, crying out in the wilderness - "The GNU Public
> Licence is a jealous Licence, Thou shalt have none other Licence but me"

Oh, heck no!  The GPL is only one of several rites within the Church
of Free Software.  We respect all the other rites.  

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[ozan s yigit]

>A monoatheistical selection of the analects would be more useful
>
>	'The gospel according to pike'
>
>being different to:
>
>	'The apocryphal book of boyd'
>
>but both having their place.

Zen Student: So Master, is the soul immortal or not? Do we survive
our bodily death or do we get annihilated? Do we really reincarnate?
Does our soul split up into component parts which get recycled, or do
we as a single unit enter the body of a biological organism? And do we
retain our memories or not? Or is the doctrine of reincarnation false?
Is perhaps the christian notion of survival more correct? And if so,
do we get bodily resurrected, or does our soul enter a purely
platonic spiritual realm?

Master: Your breakfast is getting cold.

[from: Raymond M. Smullyan, "The Tao is Silent", Harper & Row, 1977]
---
oz

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Thomas Bushnell, BSG]

andrew@mbmnz.co.nz (Andrew Simmons) writes:

> It's hard to see any point in changing, unless the person who raised the
> issue has a really compelling justification.

I raised the issue, in response to the claim that a posting was not
approprate for comp.os.plan9, on the grounds that it is gatewayed to
9fans, which is only for fans of Plan 9.

Re: [9fans] List <-> News gateway?

[Tomas]

On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 at 12:46pm, Dan Cross wrote:

> Here's a question; how many people read comp.os.plan9 versus
> how many people are on 9fans? The issue has been raised that
> comp.os.plan9 and 9fans have very different spirits, and
> should, perhaps, be divorced from one another. What are
> people's opinions on this?

I subscribe to both 9fans and comp.os.plan9, and have my
newsreader set up to kill any message with [9fans] in the subject
line. This leaves me with less than one message per week to read
in comp.os.plan9, and it's usually a message that I have already
read in 9fans but for some reason the mail->news gateway hasn't
added the [9fans] tag to it, or, perhaps more likely, the person
who posted it sent it to both 9fans and comp.os.plan9.

So unless my newsfeed for comp.os.plan9 is bad and I'm missing
lots of posts, I can't understand where this idea of different
spirits comes from, since as far as I can see it's virtually the
same discussions in both forums.

I say don't divorce the two.

/Tomas - now, if only I could get my mouse working in Plan9...