[9fans] nile, a rio derivative

[9fans] nile, a rio derivative

[a]

While poking around for something unrelated, I found a 9fans
message[1] from Russ describing a hypothetical menuless (sic)
rio. It sounded interesting so I've mostly implemented it in nile[2],
a rio derivative I've been poking at. I think it does everything
described in that message but the title bar. Invoke with -m to get
the mode described in that message (it's half way there anyway).

I've got a *lot* of muscle memory attached to rio's way of doing
things, but so far this feels quite nice. There's a man page and a
readme, in case the description in Russ's message doesn't make
things clear.

I use nile as a playground for other rio ideas and and integrating
other people's mods, so there are some rough bits. Right now, it
adds Andrey's transparent window creation mod (useful over poor
networks) and yiyus's non-interactive mod (although I no longer
use this and will likely remove it soon).

I've also put up a version of winwatch[3] which adds a menu
on button 3 similar to rio's. This is very useful with nile -m. The
big missing function is that there's no mousy way to set the
scroll state, nor any way to find the current state. I've started
playing with some of the "global command window" ideas which
have come up in such conversations, too.

[1]	http://9fans.net/archive/2005/03/31
[2]	/n/sources/contrib/anothy/src/cmd/nile
[3]	/n/sources/contrib/anothy/src/cmd/winwatch.c

Re: [9fans] nile, a rio derivative

[Skip Tavakkolian]

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how does one delete windows that have another window manager running inside
(rio or nile)?


On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 11:03 AM, <a@9srv.net> wrote:

> While poking around for something unrelated, I found a 9fans
> message[1] from Russ describing a hypothetical menuless (sic)
> rio. It sounded interesting so I've mostly implemented it in nile[2],
> a rio derivative I've been poking at. I think it does everything
> described in that message but the title bar. Invoke with -m to get
> the mode described in that message (it's half way there anyway).
>
> I've got a *lot* of muscle memory attached to rio's way of doing
> things, but so far this feels quite nice. There's a man page and a
> readme, in case the description in Russ's message doesn't make
> things clear.
>
> I use nile as a playground for other rio ideas and and integrating
> other people's mods, so there are some rough bits. Right now, it
> adds Andrey's transparent window creation mod (useful over poor
> networks) and yiyus's non-interactive mod (although I no longer
> use this and will likely remove it soon).
>
> I've also put up a version of winwatch[3] which adds a menu
> on button 3 similar to rio's. This is very useful with nile -m. The
> big missing function is that there's no mousy way to set the
> scroll state, nor any way to find the current state. I've started
> playing with some of the "global command window" ideas which
> have come up in such conversations, too.
>
> [1]     http://9fans.net/archive/2005/03/31
> [2]     /n/sources/contrib/anothy/src/cmd/nile
> [3]     /n/sources/contrib/anothy/src/cmd/winwatch.c
>
>
>

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Re: [9fans] nile, a rio derivative

[andrey mirtchovski]

nice!

i've been thinking in the past that the scroll dichotomy (some like
noscroll and some don't) can be solved similarly to OSX's terminal --
if you're at the bottom of the page it scrolls down, if you're
anywhere else it does not. the last line of text (the line with the
prompt, or an empty line) at the bottom of the window is normally not
visible, so to switch from noscroll mode to scroll mode you go to the
bottom of the page and hit page-down/arrow down once more to "show"
the last line and enable "scroll" mode. page-up or up-arrow once will
act normally but have the secondary effect that noscroll is enabled.

i've found it useful in terminal, but i've always been a no-noscroll
kind of guy :)

Re: [9fans] nile, a rio derivative

[a]

// how does one delete windows that have another window
// manager running inside (rio or nile)?

To delete a window with any graphical program, you'll need
external help. Under the hood, you write 'delete' to the target
window's wctl file. The winwatch fork mentioned makes this
easier.

Re: [9fans] nile, a rio derivative

[a]

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I don't recall if it's an exact match, but that sounds
roughly like what's in plan9port. I like it.

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From: andrey mirtchovski <mirtchovski@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] nile, a rio derivative
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:53:33 -0600
Message-ID: <CAK4xykUwWxvGO1Jo=CcAg3MsD-K9z2AMzP=7XkHhDhYbvgznJg@mail.gmail.com>

nice!

i've been thinking in the past that the scroll dichotomy (some like
noscroll and some don't) can be solved similarly to OSX's terminal --
if you're at the bottom of the page it scrolls down, if you're
anywhere else it does not. the last line of text (the line with the
prompt, or an empty line) at the bottom of the window is normally not
visible, so to switch from noscroll mode to scroll mode you go to the
bottom of the page and hit page-down/arrow down once more to "show"
the last line and enable "scroll" mode. page-up or up-arrow once will
act normally but have the secondary effect that noscroll is enabled.

i've found it useful in terminal, but i've always been a no-noscroll
kind of guy :)

Re: [9fans] nile, a rio derivative

[Steve Simon]

I am not keen on the menu less idea, but being a sam-ista
its not surprising.

I did play with the chording patch to sam but never trained
myself fully. I also find it odd that sam doesn't do the
autoscroll that rio and windows/macos do these days.

Maybe I will have a hack at that somewhen.

I like the idea of swicthing to noscroll automagiclly by
scrolling up.

The one I still occasionally miss is 9term's look option which
I used to use before I had real plan9 :-)

-Steve

Re: [9fans] nile, a rio derivative

[a]

// The one I still occasionally miss is 9term's look option
// which used to use before I had real plan9 :-)

Me too. I'm hoping to get to that. There's a no-op in nile's
button 2 menu (when running without -m) now. Hopefully
it'll be functional soonish.

Re: [9fans] nile, a rio derivative

[Skip Tavakkolian]

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i liked this option, and don't understand why it was removed. it beats
'history' implementation in every command.


On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:06 PM, <a@9srv.net> wrote:

> // The one I still occasionally miss is 9term's look option
> // which used to use before I had real plan9 :-)
>
> Me too. I'm hoping to get to that. There's a no-op in nile's
> button 2 menu (when running without -m) now. Hopefully
> it'll be functional soonish.
>
>
>

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Re: [9fans] nile, a rio derivative

[Skip Tavakkolian]

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i discovered one way to do it without winwatch. since any window can be the
target of a Delete, one can select Delete from the context of one window
and use it on another window.


On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:57 PM, <a@9srv.net> wrote:

> // how does one delete windows that have another window
> // manager running inside (rio or nile)?
>
> To delete a window with any graphical program, you'll need
> external help. Under the hood, you write 'delete' to the target
> window's wctl file. The winwatch fork mentioned makes this
> easier.
>
>
>

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Re: [9fans] nile, a rio derivative

[Lee Fallat]

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On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 3:57 PM, <a@9srv.net> wrote:
>// how does one delete windows that have another window
>// manager running inside (rio or nile)?
>
>To delete a window with any graphical program, you'll need
>external help. Under the hood, you write 'delete' to the target
>window's wctl file. The winwatch fork mentioned makes this
>easier.


Why not just stick with chording? :)

B1+B2 = Cut, but doing it on the border of a rio window could delete it?
You could further extend this to save the state of windows and store them
on disk if you ever want to recover them (maybe in a stack-like fashion?)
with B1+B3 (Paste).

Just an idea. Not serious on the second, heh.

Regards,

Lee

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Re: [9fans] nile, a rio derivative

[hiro]

What did look do?

On 10/17/13, a@9srv.net <a@9srv.net> wrote:
> // The one I still occasionally miss is 9term's look option
> // which used to use before I had real plan9 :-)
>
> Me too. I'm hoping to get to that. There's a no-op in nile's
> button 2 menu (when running without -m) now. Hopefully
> it'll be functional soonish.
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] nile, a rio derivative

[erik quanstrom]

On Fri Oct 18 16:29:35 EDT 2013, 23hiro@gmail.com wrote:
> What did look do?
> 
> On 10/17/13, a@9srv.net <a@9srv.net> wrote:
> > // The one I still occasionally miss is 9term's look option
> > // which used to use before I had real plan9 :-)
> >
> > Me too. I'm hoping to get to that. There's a no-op in nile's
> > button 2 menu (when running without -m) now. Hopefully
> > it'll be functional soonish.

"look," from dhog's original 9term, did a forward search for the
selected text.  at one point i added "←look" and "→look" to
my version 9term, and p9p's rio.  these did forward and reverse
searches, but that has not been pulled up to p9p's tip.

- erik