Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice

Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice

[A.S. Kukhar]

namesake you probably wanted to say a 2ghz P4?

> ...
> The speed is quite reasonable and the
> machine (a 2ghz PIII) rarely feels bogged down
> ...
> andrey

[9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice

[Oscar Cuadrado]

   Hi, 9fans:

   I met plan 9 in a talk in the UAM in Madrid (Spain)
about security in Plan 9 and i was 'flashed' when Russ
Cox introduced some concepts of this OS.

   So here i am, trying to initiate me in Plan 9. My
request is for some instructions about installation,
first steps, plan9 applications programming and
similars...

   I expect you to have any time to spend with a
novice, and thanks very much to all.

Grettings.

Square.

P.D.: i've downloaded some manuals but i prefer the
first-hand information ;)

___________________________________________________
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Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice

[Russ Cox]

The best information about installation and first
steps is on the wiki: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9.

Russ

Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice

[Andrew]

Im a novice too, but I'll share some insight, scattered thoughts,
and experience. its a long post, so I apologize.

I think the first thing to figure out is what sort of installation are
you aiming for? Did you want to stay with just a standalone system or
expand out to a multi-system installation?

if you are just interested in getting going with plan9 I would just go
for a standalone system and later if you want, expand out.

When I first installed plan9, I knew from the start that I wanted to
grow past a single system. In retrospect I probably spent too little time
learning about the system to attack setting up a full distributed system.

Most of what I figured out was by doing. The manuals and wiki are enough
to get you going, but from then on you just have to play around and
break stuff. I think my dad put it best, learning an OS is kind of like
wandering around in San Francisco, the way you figure out where things
are is to get yourself completely lost, then find your way about out
again. Its often not easy, but you learn a lot doing it.

Whenever I've had a major problem, such that ive almost given up and
asked the list, a solution presented itself a few moments later. I would
(like to) imagine many other people have had similiar experiences.

The pleasant thing about plan9 is there arent many surprises or hidden
traps, everything is simple, when you finally figure something out,
you think to yourself 'well of course, that makes perfect sense!'

To get going, unless things have changed, get a floppy image from
website. Then boot from there. The installer should get you a basic system
going. From then, well...try to set up basic services. Try building a
kernel, if you're like me your jaw will drop when you see how fast a
kernel compile goes compared to most unix kernels. I would play around
with factotum, and binding namespaces in creative ways. Learn sam,
its like ed, but has some cool features. If you're brave learn ed. Ive
learned to use it since most of my 'servers' lack decent video cards
and boot to the console.

Learn how the boot process works. the plan9.ini file has gotten pretty simple, but its still good to understand the process.

You'll also want to get reasonably comfortable with replica, so you can
keep your system updated.

If you're feeling pretty comfortable and want to expand, try adding a
cpu/fossil server. despite what the wiki says, bootstrapping a fossil
system is actually pretty easy. The only real glitch I had was getting
the system on the network quickly, which involved adding two lines to
the boot file.

Try making terminals, I usually make them hard-driveless, and boot from
the floppy.

Andrew

On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 10:52:37PM +0200, Oscar Cuadrado wrote:
>    Hi, 9fans:
>
>    I met plan 9 in a talk in the UAM in Madrid (Spain)
> about security in Plan 9 and i was 'flashed' when Russ
> Cox introduced some concepts of this OS.
>
>    So here i am, trying to initiate me in Plan 9. My
> request is for some instructions about installation,
> first steps, plan9 applications programming and
> similars...
>
>    I expect you to have any time to spend with a
> novice, and thanks very much to all.
>
> Grettings.
>
> Square.
>
> P.D.: i've downloaded some manuals but i prefer the
> first-hand information ;)
>
> ___________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versi?n GRATIS
> Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y m?s...
> http://messenger.yahoo.es

Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice

[Russ Cox]

> with factotum, and binding namespaces in creative ways. Learn sam,
> its like ed, but has some cool features. If you're brave learn ed. Ive
> learned to use it since most of my 'servers' lack decent video cards
> and boot to the console.

Learn acme!

Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice

[Andrew Simmons]

I'm just a dabbler rather than a serious user, but I found running under
VMWare a very painless way of getting familiar with the system without going
through the installation troubles that some people have. Having played
around for a while, I took the plunge and installed on a real machine - the
instructions on the Wiki are straightforward to follow, and I was lucky
enough to have just about no problems except a slight hiccup configuring the
screen resolution. (As a bonus, the installation found a 1GB partition I
never knew I had. Thanks guys.)

Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice

[Andrew]

On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 06:14:41PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote:
> > with factotum, and binding namespaces in creative ways. Learn sam,
> > its like ed, but has some cool features. If you're brave learn ed. Ive
> > learned to use it since most of my 'servers' lack decent video cards
> > and boot to the console.
>
> Learn acme!
>
how does one edit files in acme?
ive never been able to figure that out.

Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice

[Sam]

> how does one edit files in acme?
> ive never been able to figure that out.
>

Plan9 is so easy to install, even the illiterate can do it.

Sam
rtfm, inc

Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice

[Russ Cox]

The wiki has a nice tutorial, as does /usr/glenda/readme.acme
in a stock install.  If you log in as glenda after an install, the
tutorial comes up automatically.

Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice

[Andrew]

One other thing I do a lot is use the drawterm program. I dont even
know if its supported anymore, and its not a real plan9 terminal, but
you can connect to plan9 cpu server and play around a bit, its basically
like a terminal you ran 'cpu' in then ran rio. My network has finally
gotten setup (ie yesterday) to the point that im mostly comfortable
giving out free accounts just for fun. So if you want to go that route,
anyone is certainly welcome to an account.

On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 10:33:48AM +1200, Andrew Simmons wrote:
> I'm just a dabbler rather than a serious user, but I found running under
> VMWare a very painless way of getting familiar with the system without going
> through the installation troubles that some people have. Having played
> around for a while, I took the plunge and installed on a real machine - the
> instructions on the Wiki are straightforward to follow, and I was lucky
> enough to have just about no problems except a slight hiccup configuring the
> screen resolution. (As a bonus, the installation found a 1GB partition I
> never knew I had. Thanks guys.)
>

Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice

[northern snowfall]

>
>
>My network has finally
>gotten setup (ie yesterday) to the point that im mostly comfortable
>giving out free accounts just for fun. So if you want to go that route,
>anyone is certainly welcome to an account.
>
Beware geeks bearing gifts ;) jk

>

Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice

[Fco.J.Ballesteros]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 341 bytes --]

If you're in the UAM you're pretty close to our site, at urjc in
Madrid.  Don't think twice and ask for any help you need, or visit us.
We have a full network with a fossil (venti) file server and could be
of help to setup something similar.

The invitation for visiting urjc is also for any other 9fan that might be
close to us too.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 1963 bytes --]

From: "Oscar Cuadrado" <estoril_psycho@yahoo.es>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 22:52:37 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <20030506205237.76067.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com>

   Hi, 9fans:

   I met plan 9 in a talk in the UAM in Madrid (Spain)
about security in Plan 9 and i was 'flashed' when Russ
Cox introduced some concepts of this OS.

   So here i am, trying to initiate me in Plan 9. My
request is for some instructions about installation,
first steps, plan9 applications programming and
similars...

   I expect you to have any time to spend with a
novice, and thanks very much to all.

Grettings.

Square.

P.D.: i've downloaded some manuals but i prefer the
first-hand information ;)

___________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versi�n GRATIS
Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y m�s...
http://messenger.yahoo.es

Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice

[matt]

Welcome Oscar,

I'm sure I speak on behalf of everyone here when I say I hope you come
to get something out of plan9.

My suggestion would be write some code, particularly exercising the
networking aspects and user level file systems.  In doing so you should
come across most of plan9 concepts, read quite a bit of it's manual
pages and source code, use the tools such as the plumber and acme and
maybe sam, get frustrated and, hopefully, finish elated.

buena suerte


matt

Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice

[andrey mirtchovski]

I do the same thing -- I boot a vmware cpu/auth/kfs server under host-only
network, then on the same machine I forward tcp ports 567 and 17013 to the
ip address of the vmware image and give accounts to my friends to play
around with. The speed is quite reasonable and the machine (a 2ghz PIII)
rarely feels bogged down (stupid stock redhat kernel renices vmware to -10,
so my music stops playing whenever I compile anything, but I switch it back
to 0)...

I also never use the vmware window -- I don't like how it handles the mouse
-- so I just start drawterm, even if I'm on the same machine...

Never had problems with the network in vmware...

andrey

On Tue, 6 May 2003, Andrew wrote:

> One other thing I do a lot is use the drawterm program. I dont even
> know if its supported anymore, and its not a real plan9 terminal, but
> you can connect to plan9 cpu server and play around a bit, its basically
> like a terminal you ran 'cpu' in then ran rio. My network has finally
> gotten setup (ie yesterday) to the point that im mostly comfortable
> giving out free accounts just for fun. So if you want to go that route,
> anyone is certainly welcome to an account.
>

Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice

[George Gensure]

A.S. Kukhar wrote:

>namesake you probably wanted to say a 2ghz P4?
>
>

My god, a 2ghz P4 in 2001?  Amazing how fast processors are getting.
Now they're going back in time.

(snicker)
-George

Re: [9fans] Sorry, i'm a novice

[A.S. Kukhar]

oh yes, this is something like "back to the future" or
"forth to the past", check this George.

-kyxap

> My god, a 2ghz P4 in 2001?  Amazing how fast processors
> are getting. Now they're going back in time.
>
> (snicker)
> -George