[9fans] *poof*

[9fans] *poof*

[Russ Cox]

Yes, the web page is gone.
I have not been able to figure out why.
Maybe I'll figure it out tomorrow.

Russ

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[lucio]

> Yes, the web page is gone.
> I have not been able to figure out why.
> Maybe I'll figure it out tomorrow.

If you don't know _which_ web page, I presume you're not worthy?!

++L

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[geoff]

There seem to be a few other problems.  Mail to plan9.bell-labs.com
isn't being accepted.  /n/sources/plan9/dist/replica/plan9.* are
truncated, so pull isn't working right.

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[LiteStar numnums]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 710 bytes --]

It's down becuase it's being re-written in H, a new language that doesn't
really do HTML, nor AcmeWiki, nor
HTTP, but can be used to schlep some drek together that looks like the above
three. We're not sure if it
will be useful, but it is pretty damn *cool*. We've extended HTML & HTTP
into one tool that looks the
same way and offers no benefits, other than the fact that it is pretty damn
cool....

Sorry for the noise, but I couldn't help it given the new K junk

On 6/1/06, Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, the web page is gone.
> I have not been able to figure out why.
> Maybe I'll figure it out tomorrow.
>
> Russ
>



-- 
What man ignores by day he shall dread by night

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1002 bytes --]

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[andrey mirtchovski]

now is probably as good a time as ever to announce that the Secret
Plan 9 Secret Society Society held its bi-monthly meeting at the
USENIX Conference. Jim was incapacitated and the whole OS was
recompiled with gcc. the announcement of the new 9P extensions will
happen shortly, probably today.

here is a picture of the event:

http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/secret.jpg

from left to right: lucho, ron, jim mckie, charles forsyth, eric grosse.

noticably missing: audrey

andrey

ps: not really

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[andrey mirtchovski]

eric van hensbergen replaces eric grosse and i'm going to have some
coffee before i type any more mail :) sorry eric

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[Ronald G Minnich]

andrey mirtchovski wrote:
> now is probably as good a time as ever to announce that the Secret
> Plan 9 Secret Society Society held its bi-monthly meeting at the
> USENIX Conference. Jim was incapacitated and the whole OS was
> recompiled with gcc. the announcement of the new 9P extensions will
> happen shortly, probably today.
> 
> here is a picture of the event:
> 
> http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/secret.jpg
> 
> from left to right: lucho, ron, jim mckie, charles forsyth, eric grosse.

The guy hidden behind Lucho is Matt Leininger of Sandia Labs/livermore, 
who just finished building thunderbird, the largest linux/infiniband 
cluster anywhere, 4096 nodes/8192 CPUs. He is an honorary member of the 
SP9SSS, because the stuff he does is so damn cool, and he likes Plan 9.

ron

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[Skip Tavakkolian]

> SP9SSS

how is it pronounced? is it like Tony Soprano saying "it's bananas"?

anyone staying around Boston until next week?

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[Russ Cox]

Everything should be working again.  I think Lucent was
having external network connectivity problems.

Russ

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[Ronald G Minnich]

Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
>>SP9SSS
> 
> 
> how is it pronounced? is it like Tony Soprano saying "it's bananas"?
> 
> anyone staying around Boston until next week?
> 

I'm here till sunday morning. There is no plan 9 bof as of yet.

I'd like to see if somebody wants to put inferno on OLPC. But I lost 
track of forsyth, who could do it in maybe 15 mins or so. Darn!

ron

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[Jim McKie]

who said it was boston? we'll have to kill him.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Skip Tavakkolian" <9nut@9netics.com>
To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [9fans] *poof*


>> SP9SSS
> 
> how is it pronounced? is it like Tony Soprano saying "it's bananas"?
> 
> anyone staying around Boston until next week?
>

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[Christoph Lohmann]

Good evening.

Am Thu, 1 Jun 2006 06:50:58 -0600 schrieb "andrey mirtchovski"
<mirtchovski@gmail.com>:

> now is probably as good a time as ever to announce that the Secret
> Plan 9 Secret Society Society held its bi-monthly meeting at the
> USENIX Conference. Jim was incapacitated and the whole OS was
> recompiled with gcc. the announcement of the new 9P extensions will
> happen shortly, probably today.

Greetings from the Dissident Plan 9 IRC Kids (DP9IK).

We already implemented XML-RPC as native interface to the Plan 9 kernel
and only use a 9P-to-XML-RPC XML server (XS), so the old fossils can
still use their abandoned style of programming. All of this runs inside
of a RubyVM, that runs on the bare hardware.

9P is so Web 0.9 ...

Sincerely,

Christoph

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[Francisco J Ballesteros]

Funny that your 9P-to-XML-RPC XML server is named "X-S".
Just mere coincidence? ;-)

On 6/1/06, Christoph Lohmann <20h@r-36.net> wrote:
> Good evening.
>
> Am Thu, 1 Jun 2006 06:50:58 -0600 schrieb "andrey mirtchovski"
> <mirtchovski@gmail.com>:
>
> > now is probably as good a time as ever to announce that the Secret
> > Plan 9 Secret Society Society held its bi-monthly meeting at the
> > USENIX Conference. Jim was incapacitated and the whole OS was
> > recompiled with gcc. the announcement of the new 9P extensions will
> > happen shortly, probably today.
>
> Greetings from the Dissident Plan 9 IRC Kids (DP9IK).
>
> We already implemented XML-RPC as native interface to the Plan 9 kernel
> and only use a 9P-to-XML-RPC XML server (XS), so the old fossils can
> still use their abandoned style of programming. All of this runs inside
> of a RubyVM, that runs on the bare hardware.
>
> 9P is so Web 0.9 ...
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Christoph
>
>

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[Christoph Lohmann]

Good evening.

Am Thu, 1 Jun 2006 22:43:40 +0200 schrieb "Francisco J Ballesteros"
<nemo@lsub.org>:

> Funny that your 9P-to-XML-RPC XML server is named "X-S".
> Just mere coincidence? ;-)

Just mere coincidence.

Sincerely,

Christoph

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[Latchesar Ionkov]

IRC kids & coding??? You sure live in a parallel universe, there are  
no such phenomena in the one I live in :)

	Lucho

On Jun 1, 2006, at 4:34 PM, Christoph Lohmann wrote:

> Good evening.
>
> Am Thu, 1 Jun 2006 06:50:58 -0600 schrieb "andrey mirtchovski"
> <mirtchovski@gmail.com>:
>
>> now is probably as good a time as ever to announce that the Secret
>> Plan 9 Secret Society Society held its bi-monthly meeting at the
>> USENIX Conference. Jim was incapacitated and the whole OS was
>> recompiled with gcc. the announcement of the new 9P extensions will
>> happen shortly, probably today.
>
> Greetings from the Dissident Plan 9 IRC Kids (DP9IK).
>
> We already implemented XML-RPC as native interface to the Plan 9  
> kernel
> and only use a 9P-to-XML-RPC XML server (XS), so the old fossils can
> still use their abandoned style of programming. All of this runs  
> inside
> of a RubyVM, that runs on the bare hardware.
>
> 9P is so Web 0.9 ...
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Christoph

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[Christoph Lohmann]

Good evening.

Am Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:28:36 -0400 schrieb Latchesar Ionkov
<lionkov@lanl.gov>:

> IRC kids & coding??? You sure live in a parallel universe, there are  
> no such phenomena in the one I live in :)
> 
> 	Lucho

No need to flame anymore. You lost.

Sincerely,

Christoph

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[David Leimbach]

On 6/1/06, Christoph Lohmann <20h@r-36.net> wrote:
> Good evening.
>
> Am Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:28:36 -0400 schrieb Latchesar Ionkov
> <lionkov@lanl.gov>:
>
> > IRC kids & coding??? You sure live in a parallel universe, there are
> > no such phenomena in the one I live in :)
> >
> >       Lucho
>
> No need to flame anymore. You lost.
>

Since we're being silly, I was thinking of starting a commercial
offshoot of Plan 9 called:
"Leimy's Software Distribution" or "LSD".

My phone number will be 1-800-Im-plan9

(* awaits the lawyers... *)

[9fans] 9pcf panic

[arisawa]

Hello,

The latest 9pcf (Apr 16 21:53) on
/n/sources/plan9/386
makes panic: exception/interrupt 14

I confirmed on three PCs

Kenji Arisawa

Re: [9fans] 9pcf panic

[arisawa]

Hello,

I wrote:
> The latest 9pcf (Apr 16 21:53) on
> /n/sources/plan9/386
> makes panic: exception/interrupt 14

I have received a private mail from geoff@collyer.net:
> Hi. That sounds like a 9load problem.  If you haven't updated your
> kernel for a while, you may need to update your 9load too.  New
> kernels load at virtual 0xf000000, not 0x8000000.  The new 9load can
> load old and new kernels, but the old 9load can only load old kernels.
which have resolved my problem.

Thanks Geoff.

Kenji Arisawa

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[uriel]

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/ is down again, sources works.

uriel

> Everything should be working again.  I think Lucent was
> having external network connectivity problems.
> 
> Russ

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[uriel]

Sorry, this was not meant for the list.

uriel

> http://plan9.bell-labs.com/ is down again, sources works.
> 
> uriel
> 
>> Everything should be working again.  I think Lucent was
>> having external network connectivity problems.
>> 
>> Russ

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[Jim McKie]

The machine which is plan9.bell-labs.com is rebooting
continuously. There's not much can be done as there is no
one there to figure out what's wrong or do anything about
it (it has been having intermittent wedges for a while and
we've been trying to track that down but this is something
different).

Must go to a talk and then lunch with someone from Google.

--jim

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <uriel@cat-v.org>
To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: [9fans] *poof*


> http://plan9.bell-labs.com/ is down again, sources works.
> 
> uriel
> 
>> Everything should be working again.  I think Lucent was
>> having external network connectivity problems.
>> 
>> Russ
>

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[user local]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 279 bytes --]

2006/6/2, Jim McKie <jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com>:
>
> The machine which is plan9.bell-labs.com is rebooting
> continuously.


Please tell us more: manufacture, model, # serial
Costs...

:-)

... just I've become a freshfan! OK, I resign.
(Did that box stop rebooting?)

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 609 bytes --]

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[Christoph Lohmann]

Good evening.

Am Fri, 2 Jun 2006 10:55:44 -0400 schrieb "Jim McKie"
<jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com>:

> The machine which is plan9.bell-labs.com is rebooting
> continuously. There's not much can be done as there is no
> one there to figure out what's wrong or do anything about
> it (it has been having intermittent wedges for a while and
> we've been trying to track that down but this is something
> different).

I had the same problem with ddr.9grid.de. It ran out of memory short
after cron was started. For now cron is turned off there, but that is
no real solution.

Sincerely,

Christoph

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[Francisco J Ballesteros]

Leaks?

On 6/2/06, Christoph Lohmann <20h@r-36.net> wrote:
> Good evening.
>
> Am Fri, 2 Jun 2006 10:55:44 -0400 schrieb "Jim McKie"
> <jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com>:
>
> > The machine which is plan9.bell-labs.com is rebooting
> > continuously. There's not much can be done as there is no
> > one there to figure out what's wrong or do anything about
> > it (it has been having intermittent wedges for a while and
> > we've been trying to track that down but this is something
> > different).
>
> I had the same problem with ddr.9grid.de. It ran out of memory short
> after cron was started. For now cron is turned off there, but that is
> no real solution.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Christoph
>
>

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[Russ Cox]

> > The machine which is plan9.bell-labs.com is rebooting
> > continuously. There's not much can be done as there is no
> > one there to figure out what's wrong or do anything about
> > it (it has been having intermittent wedges for a while and
> > we've been trying to track that down but this is something
> > different).
>
> I had the same problem with ddr.9grid.de. It ran out of memory short
> after cron was started. For now cron is turned off there, but that is
> no real solution.

I doubt that your problem is the same as ours.

In ours, the machine was rebooting every five minutes
because I wrote a shell script that, if the right error
condition happened, would reboot the machine every
five minutes using the HTTP interface to the UPS.
And the error condition finally happened.  Oops.

Russ

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[Steve Simon]

> I had the same problem with ddr.9grid.de. It ran out of memory short
> after cron was started. For now cron is turned off there, but that is
> no real solution.

I too had problems with cron, It seemed that timesync can
set the current time back a long way (days) in some circumstances
and when it discovers its error and corrects the system clock
cron goes nuts trying to run all the jobs that have been missed.
This only happened once a month, and somtimes at system boot so
it was difficult to debug. I looked at timesync but it looked
correct to me.

I submitted a patch to cron which should have prevented the madness
(only 24 hours of catchup performed at most), and though it helped,
it didn't seem to cover all cases.

I have now I delayed the start of cron until timesync has (hopefully)
stabalised the system clock, which seems to solved the problem.

	felix% grep cron /rc/bin/cpurc
	{ sleep 600; auth/cron >> /sys/log/cron } &

not really a solution, more of a workaround.

-Steve

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[Jim McKie]

only of neurons

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Francisco J Ballesteros" <nemo@lsub.org>
To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@cse.psu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [9fans] *poof*


> Leaks?
> 
> On 6/2/06, Christoph Lohmann <20h@r-36.net> wrote:
>> Good evening.
>>
>> Am Fri, 2 Jun 2006 10:55:44 -0400 schrieb "Jim McKie"
>> <jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com>:
>>
>> > The machine which is plan9.bell-labs.com is rebooting
>> > continuously. There's not much can be done as there is no
>> > one there to figure out what's wrong or do anything about
>> > it (it has been having intermittent wedges for a while and
>> > we've been trying to track that down but this is something
>> > different).
>>
>> I had the same problem with ddr.9grid.de. It ran out of memory short
>> after cron was started. For now cron is turned off there, but that is
>> no real solution.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Christoph
>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[geoff]

The code to prevent madness in cron was using the wrong units until
recently: the time in question was in minutes but the threshold was in
seconds.  I fixed it while improving cron's precision and accuracy;
it looks like the changes arrived on sources on May 12th.

Re: [9fans] *poof*

[Steve Simon]

> The code to prevent madness in cron was using the wrong units until
> recently: the time in question was in minutes but the threshold was in
> seconds.  I fixed it while improving cron's precision and accuracy;
> it looks like the changes arrived on sources on May 12th.

Blush.

Oh well, at leat its fixed properly now.

-Steve

Inferno on OLPC? (was Re: [9fans] *poof*)

[csant]

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 21:03:02 +0200, Ronald G Minnich <rminnich@lanl.gov>  
wrote:

> I'd like to see if somebody wants to put inferno on OLPC. But I lost  
> track of forsyth, who could do it in maybe 15 mins or so. Darn!

Honestly, has this ever been proposed? Or even tried? Wouldn't Plan 9 or  
Inferno be an ideal solution to the limited resources available?
/c

Re: Inferno on OLPC? (was Re: [9fans] *poof*)

[C H Forsyth]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 88 bytes --]

i went to the session at Usenix.
i think the project is interesting.
it is on my list.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2850 bytes --]

From: csant <csant@csant.info>
To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@cse.psu.edu>
Subject: Inferno on OLPC? (was Re: [9fans] *poof*)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 23:58:31 +0200
Message-ID: <op.ta5ontxed84skq@fiore.malebolge>

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 21:03:02 +0200, Ronald G Minnich <rminnich@lanl.gov>  
wrote:

> I'd like to see if somebody wants to put inferno on OLPC. But I lost  
> track of forsyth, who could do it in maybe 15 mins or so. Darn!

Honestly, has this ever been proposed? Or even tried? Wouldn't Plan 9 or  
Inferno be an ideal solution to the limited resources available?
/c

Re: Inferno on OLPC? (was Re: [9fans] *poof*)

[Ronald G Minnich]

csant wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 21:03:02 +0200, Ronald G Minnich 
> <rminnich@lanl.gov>  wrote:
> 
>> I'd like to see if somebody wants to put inferno on OLPC. But I lost  
>> track of forsyth, who could do it in maybe 15 mins or so. Darn!
> 
> 
> Honestly, has this ever been proposed? Or even tried? Wouldn't Plan 9 
> or  Inferno be an ideal solution to the limited resources available?
> /c

I have proposed it.

There's just a ton of apps that people like that you don't get with 
inferno or plan 9, the big one being a word-like document program. That 
said, the size and amount of eye candy for OLPC is going to be a heavy 
load for that machine.

The other issue is that, evidently, you can't build inferno under inferno.

ron

Re: Inferno on OLPC? (was Re: [9fans] *poof*)

[quanstro]

not unless you rewrite ?c in limbo.

- erik

On Thu Jun 15 10:09:36 CDT 2006, rminnich@lanl.gov wrote:
> 
> The other issue is that, evidently, you can't build inferno under inferno.
> 

Re: Inferno on OLPC? (was Re: [9fans] *poof*)

[rog]

> The other issue is that, evidently, you can't build inferno under inferno.

are there sufficient resources on the OLPC to build (say) Linux inside Linux?

Re: Inferno on OLPC? (was Re: [9fans] *poof*)

[Eric Van Hensbergen]

On 6/16/06, rog@vitanuova.com <rog@vitanuova.com> wrote:
> > The other issue is that, evidently, you can't build inferno under inferno.
>
> are there sufficient resources on the OLPC to build (say) Linux inside Linux?
>

The right question is, at 10-15W per child, how long will it take a
child with a crank to power a full Linux build....

Of course, no local disk may also be a factor there....

          -eric

Re: Inferno on OLPC? (was Re: [9fans] *poof*)

[Ronald G Minnich]

rog@vitanuova.com wrote:
>>The other issue is that, evidently, you can't build inferno under inferno.
> 
> 
> are there sufficient resources on the OLPC to build (say) Linux inside Linux?

yes. The goal is to provide these guys with a hackable system, right 
down to the bios.

THe bios hacking will be very, very rare, and requires manual 
intervention to enable write.

But the linux hacking is intended to be frequent.

ron

Re: Inferno on OLPC? (was Re: [9fans] *poof*)

[Ronald G Minnich]

Eric Van Hensbergen wrote:
> On 6/16/06, rog@vitanuova.com <rog@vitanuova.com> wrote:
> 
>> > The other issue is that, evidently, you can't build inferno under 
>> inferno.
>>
>> are there sufficient resources on the OLPC to build (say) Linux inside 
>> Linux?
>>
> 
> The right question is, at 10-15W per child, how long will it take a
> child with a crank to power a full Linux build....
> 
> Of course, no local disk may also be a factor there....
> 
>          -eric

actually, the crank is history.

ron

Re: Inferno on OLPC? (was Re: [9fans] *poof*)

[jmk]

One of the interesting things to come out of the excellent
presentation at Usenix was that there are people out there
who know things like how much power you can get out of a child
at various ages, etc.

How many 8-year old children == 1 pit pony?

We could work out how long and how many children it would
take to compile Linux on this maybe by starting with the time
and power taken to compile it on some known machine.

On Fri Jun 16 09:30:48 EDT 2006, ericvh@gmail.com wrote:
> On 6/16/06, rog@vitanuova.com <rog@vitanuova.com> wrote:
> > > The other issue is that, evidently, you can't build inferno under inferno.
> >
> > are there sufficient resources on the OLPC to build (say) Linux inside Linux?
> >
> 
> The right question is, at 10-15W per child, how long will it take a
> child with a crank to power a full Linux build....
> 
> Of course, no local disk may also be a factor there....
> 
>           -eric

Re: Inferno on OLPC? (was Re: [9fans] *poof*)

[jmk]

On Fri Jun 16 11:23:35 EDT 2006, rminnich@lanl.gov wrote:
> ...
> 
> But the linux hacking is intended to be frequent.
> 
> ron

All Linux hacking seems to be frequent...

Re: Inferno on OLPC? (was Re: [9fans] *poof*)

[Micah Stetson]

> One of the interesting things to come out of the excellent
> presentation at Usenix was that there are people out there
> who know things like how much power you can get out of a child
> at various ages, etc.
>
> How many 8-year old children == 1 pit pony?

We would like to extend our gratitude to the International Society of
Sweatshop Efficiency Experts for their invaluable engineering
assistance.

No actual children were harmed during the production of this computer.

Re: Inferno on OLPC? (was Re: [9fans] *poof*)

[Wes Kussmaul]

Ronald G Minnich wrote:

> Eric Van Hensbergen wrote:
>
>> The right question is, at 10-15W per child, how long will it take a
>> child with a crank to power a full Linux build....
>>
>> Of course, no local disk may also be a factor there....
>
>
> actually, the crank is history.


I had heard that the crank will be reintroduced on models going to very 
primitive areas, that it had been removed because it generated 
distracting a distracting buzz, e.g.

"Hey Melinda, what do you call a crank on a computer? Nick Negroponte."

-- 
Wes Kussmaul
CIO
The Village Group
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451

781-647-7178


My uncle likes to say that the world’s biggest troubles started when the serpent said, “Try this fruit, and by the way if a bunch of people collectively calling themselves Arthur Andersen signs something it’s the same as if a person named Arthur Andersen signed it.” I don’t get the serpent and fruit part. Must be some Swiss mythology thing. He can be a bit obscure. 

                         P.K. Iggy
                         _How I Like Fixed The Internet_
                           (Tales from the Great Infodepression of 2009
                           and the prosperity that followed)

Re: Inferno on OLPC? (was Re: [9fans] *poof*)

[andrew.simmons]

> One of the interesting things to come out of the excellent
> presentation at Usenix was that there are people out there
> who know things like how much power you can get out of a child
> at various ages, etc.
>
> How many 8-year old children == 1 pit pony?
>
> We could work out how long and how many children it would
> take to compile Linux on this maybe by starting with the time
> and power taken to compile it on some known machine.
>

Personally I'd like to know how you get power out of a child at any age. Do
you hook a turbine up to the Xbox controllers, or what?

Re: Inferno on OLPC? (was Re: [9fans] *poof*)

[quanstro]

since children tend to go real fast in circles and since 
W = F*d, children produce no work. ;-)

but that's okay.  most adults don't either.

- erik

On Sun Jun 18 17:59:23 CDT 2006, andrew.simmons@monitorbm.co.nz wrote:
> > One of the interesting things to come out of the excellent
> > presentation at Usenix was that there are people out there
> > who know things like how much power you can get out of a child
> > at various ages, etc.
> >
> > How many 8-year old children == 1 pit pony?
> >
> > We could work out how long and how many children it would
> > take to compile Linux on this maybe by starting with the time
> > and power taken to compile it on some known machine.
> >
> 
> Personally I'd like to know how you get power out of a child at any age. Do
> you hook a turbine up to the Xbox controllers, or what?

Re: Inferno on OLPC? (was Re: [9fans] *poof*)

[Jack Johnson]

On 6/18/06, andrew.simmons@monitorbm.co.nz
<andrew.simmons@monitorbm.co.nz> wrote:
> Personally I'd like to know how you get power out of a child at any age. Do
> you hook a turbine up to the Xbox controllers, or what?

It's been known for some time that an 830 kJ Twinkie will produce an
order of magnitude more energy when consumed by any primate of an age
range between 1/9 and 1/5 of it's estimated lifespan, but as of yet
this energy production has been unstable.

-J