Re: [9fans] patches from 9front

[hiro <23hiro@gmail.com>]

> You seem to have a knack for calling a spade a spade and that can be
> an invaluable contribution

are you implying here that by your doing the opposite you could also
be invaluably contributing something?

not sure i see the alternative you would like to propose for ori_b.

> How else
> are we going to select from conflicting alternatives?

seems like you are already busy selecting, so perhaps we'll just wait
and see how it turns out, and if it leads nowhere somebody else will
have a go at it.

i like trial & error. if there's nothing more informed to be done.

> The "One plan 9" I mentioned would need to shrink rather than grow

how about you help us shrink it. we already want to remove
fossil/venti and acme could be next.

next up: python & hg (bec. of ori's actual native git implementation).

i don't think anybody here would oppose the goal of minimalism. but
somebody has to do the work. we need really not philosophize if no
software is even discussed.

> Who is going to offer up anything,
> if there is no known criterion by which compatibility can be measured
> and occasionally sacrificed?

are you trying to convert us into a standards body? you doubting our
common sense that much?
cinap has been acting as an informal gatekeeper for a long time. we
have no written rules, but we all seem to value plan9 for the same
reasons, so i don't see much possible conflict, it's rather education
and experience, not rules that are lacking.

a lot of us care to learn more about the how's and why's of the
conventions in plan9 that manage to make a very minimal set of
machinery so much more effective than the other unix-based systems out
there.

that wish is stronger than any bureaucracy that you seem to be proposing here.

> Ori, I'm sure you enjoy the fruit of your developments and I have no
> doubt at all that others - me and git9 would be an example - would
> benefit from your work. But consider my quandary: I have a Plan 9
> network on which I have been unable to deploy a version of SSH that
> makes it possible to interoperate with Git on my work Linux systems of
> various kinds.

do you have any details about that? are your linux systems all
outdated for some reason that is outside of your control? our ssh
client is quite well supported.
perhaps make a new thread on 9front ml and include a proper bugreport,
if there's something wrong we don't know about i'm sure you can be
helped.

> My colleagues frown on anything Plan 9 I contribute and I cannot
> circumvent the development and production Linux systems that we are
> all familiar with. For my purposes, SSH with capabilities like in
> 9front needs to run on traditional Plan 9, because my 9front
> deployment doesn't play well on the equipment I use and much of my
> Plan 9 commitments date to before 9front was a "thing".

i do not understand, your colleagues made you stop using plan 9?
i don't really know what the conflict is. i'm afraid we cannot help
you with your coworkers.

> I can perpetuate my Plan 9 problem and actually solve my work problems
> using Linux and, occasionally, NetBSD. I don't want to, though, nor do
> I want to spend more time on work others have already done.

what *do* you want to work on?

> Is that an unreasonable desire? Should I simply feel privileged that I
> have been able to play with a pointless Plan 9 network, throw away
> twenty-odd years of Plan 9 experience and simply cross over to the
> Dark Side, instead, as my colleagues would prefer me to do?

i'm sure many people here would like to learn from your 20 years of
plan 9 experience.
i see no problem in being part of multiple communities at the same time.
i don't tell my more practically minded friends about computers either.
why is that a problem?

what is the dark side? for me the borders between plan9 and non-plan9
has been getting less tight, bec. with more experience i understand
how to translate mindsets, or even code, from one system to the other
without anybody in my real life ever accusing me of having watched too
many ed wood movies.

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