[9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Charlie Lin]

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Any plans for Plan 9 5th edition?

My desires:
ISO-compliant C compiler and preprocessor
Port other programming languages (especially Go) to here
Start a source code repository
Port Git, SVN, Mercurial, et cetera to here

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Stanley Lieber]

Charlie Lin <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:

>Any plans for Plan 9 5th edition?
>
>My desires:
>ISO-compliant C compiler and preprocessor
>Port other programming languages (especially Go) to here
>Start a source code repository
>Port Git, SVN, Mercurial, et cetera to here

At the risk of being contradicted: No.

sl

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen]

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I think there was a port of gcc at one time. It should be possible to use
that to port later versions of gcc.
Go is already ported, AFAIK, but I have not yet found an excuse to try it
out.
Personally, I would really like to have  Ada (Gnat) working on Plan9. I
have made enough errors in C and C++ for a lifetime...
If you have gcc, it does not take that much work to get Gnat working for a
new platform. Most of the work would be the interface to the tasking
system, I think.
Mercurial (and Python) already runs on 9Front.

Ole-Hj.


On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 11:27 PM, Charlie Lin <charlielin65@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Any plans for Plan 9 5th edition?
>
> My desires:
> ISO-compliant C compiler and preprocessor
> Port other programming languages (especially Go) to here
> Start a source code repository
> Port Git, SVN, Mercurial, et cetera to here
>

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Chris McGee]

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A C compiler that supports the latest spec would be nice as long as it doesn't sacrifice compile times. I like how quickly the system can recompile itself. Maybe extend pcc to include new features?

Go works pretty well and is on its way to be a supported platform. I use it quite frequently on 9front.

For git, there's a wrapper script for github and others. But yes, a fuller featured git would be good. There are some projects trying to do that in Go. Maybe that'll work someday.

Mercurial is already there on 9front via python.

Chris

> On Nov 16, 2016, at 5:27 PM, Charlie Lin <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Any plans for Plan 9 5th edition?
> 
> My desires:
> ISO-compliant C compiler and preprocessor
> Port other programming languages (especially Go) to here
> Start a source code repository
> Port Git, SVN, Mercurial, et cetera to here

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[James A. Robinson]

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On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 3:54 PM Chris McGee <newton688@gmail.com> wrote:

> A C compiler that supports the latest spec would be nice as long as it
> doesn't sacrifice compile times. I like how quickly the system can
> recompile itself. Maybe extend pcc to include new features?
>

I'll admit to never having paid much attention to the changing
specification for C. By latest spec you're referring to C11? I recall a
coworker pointing me at http://www.tinycc.org/ awhile ago, and looking at
the page today it says it mostly implements the previous C99 specification

It claims to be small, mostly compliant to C99 ("Currently missing items
are: complex and imaginary numbers and variable length arrays."), and fast.
But it isn't under development by the original author any more.

Jim

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Charlie Lin]

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I have the ANSI X3.159-1989 (C89), the ISO/IEC 9989:1990 (C90) (ANSI
version) and ISO/IEC 9989:1999 (C99).

The first one I found it at the National Technical Reports Library. The
other two I do not know where I obtained them but I know they are on the
Internet, as final standards, not drafts.

On Nov 16, 2016 7:35 PM, "James A. Robinson" <jimr@highwire.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 3:54 PM Chris McGee <newton688@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> A C compiler that supports the latest spec would be nice as long as it
>> doesn't sacrifice compile times. I like how quickly the system can
>> recompile itself. Maybe extend pcc to include new features?
>>
>
> I'll admit to never having paid much attention to the changing
> specification for C. By latest spec you're referring to C11? I recall a
> coworker pointing me at http://www.tinycc.org/ awhile ago, and looking at
> the page today it says it mostly implements the previous C99 specification
>
> It claims to be small, mostly compliant to C99 ("Currently missing items
> are: complex and imaginary numbers and variable length arrays."), and fast.
> But it isn't under development by the original author any more.
>
> Jim
>
>

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Dave MacFarlane]

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 6:53 PM, Chris McGee <newton688@gmail.com> wrote:
> For git, there's a wrapper script for github and others. But yes, a fuller
> featured git would be good. There are some projects trying to do that in Go.
> Maybe that'll work someday.

I know I started a really half-assed, wholly-abandoned implementation
here: https://github.com/driusan/go-git
when I was starting to learn Go so that I could fix a bug in some of
my code on Plan 9 (eventually I just made
the change, tested it, and copied the file to a supported git platform
over drawterm, and commited it from there..)

Who else is trying to do it?

- Dave

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Ori Bernstein]

https://bitbucket.org/oridb/libgit2

If someone wants to actually turn it into a git client, it at least builds
(or used to).

On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 11:16:20 -0500, Dave MacFarlane <driusan@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 6:53 PM, Chris McGee <newton688@gmail.com> wrote:
> > For git, there's a wrapper script for github and others. But yes, a fuller
> > featured git would be good. There are some projects trying to do that in Go.
> > Maybe that'll work someday.
>
> I know I started a really half-assed, wholly-abandoned implementation
> here: https://github.com/driusan/go-git
> when I was starting to learn Go so that I could fix a bug in some of
> my code on Plan 9 (eventually I just made
> the change, tested it, and copied the file to a supported git platform
> over drawterm, and commited it from there..)
>
> Who else is trying to do it?
>
> - Dave
>


--
    Ori Bernstein

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Chris McGee]

It doesn't build for me anymore. Fixing the make file seemed non trivial.

Chris

> On Nov 17, 2016, at 12:50 PM, Ori Bernstein <ori@eigenstate.org> wrote:
> 
> https://bitbucket.org/oridb/libgit2
> 
> If someone wants to actually turn it into a git client, it at least builds
> (or used to).
> 
>> On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 11:16:20 -0500, Dave MacFarlane <driusan@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 6:53 PM, Chris McGee <newton688@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> For git, there's a wrapper script for github and others. But yes, a fuller
>>> featured git would be good. There are some projects trying to do that in Go.
>>> Maybe that'll work someday.
>> 
>> I know I started a really half-assed, wholly-abandoned implementation
>> here: https://github.com/driusan/go-git
>> when I was starting to learn Go so that I could fix a bug in some of
>> my code on Plan 9 (eventually I just made
>> the change, tested it, and copied the file to a supported git platform
>> over drawterm, and commited it from there..)
>> 
>> Who else is trying to do it?
>> 
>> - Dave
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>    Ori Bernstein
> 

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Ori Bernstein]

Plan9 doesn't use make. It has a mkfile as well.

On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 15:29:58 -0500, Chris McGee <newton688@gmail.com> wrote:

> It doesn't build for me anymore. Fixing the make file seemed non trivial.
>
> Chris
>
> > On Nov 17, 2016, at 12:50 PM, Ori Bernstein <ori@eigenstate.org> wrote:
> >
> > https://bitbucket.org/oridb/libgit2
> >
> > If someone wants to actually turn it into a git client, it at least builds
> > (or used to).
> >
> >> On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 11:16:20 -0500, Dave MacFarlane <driusan@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 6:53 PM, Chris McGee <newton688@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> For git, there's a wrapper script for github and others. But yes, a fuller
> >>> featured git would be good. There are some projects trying to do that in Go.
> >>> Maybe that'll work someday.
> >>
> >> I know I started a really half-assed, wholly-abandoned implementation
> >> here: https://github.com/driusan/go-git
> >> when I was starting to learn Go so that I could fix a bug in some of
> >> my code on Plan 9 (eventually I just made
> >> the change, tested it, and copied the file to a supported git platform
> >> over drawterm, and commited it from there..)
> >>
> >> Who else is trying to do it?
> >>
> >> - Dave
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> >    Ori Bernstein
> >
>


--
    Ori Bernstein

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Chris McGee]

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There's also Gogits.

https://github.com/gogits/git

I haven't tried it yet.

Chris

> On Nov 17, 2016, at 11:16 AM, Dave MacFarlane <driusan@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 6:53 PM, Chris McGee <newton688@gmail.com> wrote:
>> For git, there's a wrapper script for github and others. But yes, a fuller
>> featured git would be good. There are some projects trying to do that in Go.
>> Maybe that'll work someday.
> 
> I know I started a really half-assed, wholly-abandoned implementation
> here: https://github.com/driusan/go-git
> when I was starting to learn Go so that I could fix a bug in some of
> my code on Plan 9 (eventually I just made
> the change, tested it, and copied the file to a supported git platform
> over drawterm, and commited it from there..)
> 
> Who else is trying to do it?
> 
> - Dave
> 

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Charlie Lin]

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Add one more: EFI support
Also, can Plan 9 be booted on Open Firmware? (Used on at least Sun SPARC
workstations)

On Nov 16, 2016 5:27 PM, "Charlie Lin" <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:

> Any plans for Plan 9 5th edition?
>
> My desires:
> ISO-compliant C compiler and preprocessor
> Port other programming languages (especially Go) to here
> Start a source code repository
> Port Git, SVN, Mercurial, et cetera to here
>

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Kurt H Maier]

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 07:21:14PM -0500, Charlie Lin wrote:
> Add one more: EFI support
> Also, can Plan 9 be booted on Open Firmware? (Used on at least Sun SPARC
> workstations)
>
> On Nov 16, 2016 5:27 PM, "Charlie Lin" <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Any plans for Plan 9 5th edition?
> >
> > My desires:
> > ISO-compliant C compiler and preprocessor
> > Port other programming languages (especially Go) to here
> > Start a source code repository
> > Port Git, SVN, Mercurial, et cetera to here
> >


These are great ideas, is there some central place you can write these
down so we don't lose track of our goals

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Charlie Lin]

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My idea: implement a user-space filesystem to expose all EFI variables.
As for the bootloader, any ideas?

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 7:30 PM, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 07:21:14PM -0500, Charlie Lin wrote:
> > Add one more: EFI support
> > Also, can Plan 9 be booted on Open Firmware? (Used on at least Sun SPARC
> > workstations)
> >
> > On Nov 16, 2016 5:27 PM, "Charlie Lin" <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Any plans for Plan 9 5th edition?
> > >
> > > My desires:
> > > ISO-compliant C compiler and preprocessor
> > > Port other programming languages (especially Go) to here
> > > Start a source code repository
> > > Port Git, SVN, Mercurial, et cetera to here
> > >
>
>
> These are great ideas, is there some central place you can write these
> down so we don't lose track of our goals
>
>

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Charlie Lin]

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Like efivarfs in the Linux kernel

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Charlie Lin <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:

> My idea: implement a user-space filesystem to expose all EFI variables.
> As for the bootloader, any ideas?
>
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 7:30 PM, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 07:21:14PM -0500, Charlie Lin wrote:
>> > Add one more: EFI support
>> > Also, can Plan 9 be booted on Open Firmware? (Used on at least Sun SPARC
>> > workstations)
>> >
>> > On Nov 16, 2016 5:27 PM, "Charlie Lin" <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Any plans for Plan 9 5th edition?
>> > >
>> > > My desires:
>> > > ISO-compliant C compiler and preprocessor
>> > > Port other programming languages (especially Go) to here
>> > > Start a source code repository
>> > > Port Git, SVN, Mercurial, et cetera to here
>> > >
>>
>>
>> These are great ideas, is there some central place you can write these
>> down so we don't lose track of our goals
>>
>>
>

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Charlie Lin]

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My mistake for hastiness: should we implement the filesystem in kernel or
user space?

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 2:57 PM, Charlie Lin <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:

> Like efivarfs in the Linux kernel
>
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Charlie Lin <charlielin65@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> My idea: implement a user-space filesystem to expose all EFI variables.
>> As for the bootloader, any ideas?
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 7:30 PM, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 07:21:14PM -0500, Charlie Lin wrote:
>>> > Add one more: EFI support
>>> > Also, can Plan 9 be booted on Open Firmware? (Used on at least Sun
>>> SPARC
>>> > workstations)
>>> >
>>> > On Nov 16, 2016 5:27 PM, "Charlie Lin" <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Any plans for Plan 9 5th edition?
>>> > >
>>> > > My desires:
>>> > > ISO-compliant C compiler and preprocessor
>>> > > Port other programming languages (especially Go) to here
>>> > > Start a source code repository
>>> > > Port Git, SVN, Mercurial, et cetera to here
>>> > >
>>>
>>>
>>> These are great ideas, is there some central place you can write these
>>> down so we don't lose track of our goals
>>>
>>>
>>
>

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[hiro]

for 5th edition i wanna see a turing machine where the tape is
exported through a file server, it should support jumping to arbitrary
times via a ctl file. that way we can solve complex problems very
easily from simple rc scripts. for example: echo inf >
turing/time/ctl; cat turing/tape

On 11/18/16, Charlie Lin <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:
> My mistake for hastiness: should we implement the filesystem in kernel or
> user space?
>
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 2:57 PM, Charlie Lin <charlielin65@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Like efivarfs in the Linux kernel
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Charlie Lin <charlielin65@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My idea: implement a user-space filesystem to expose all EFI variables.
>>> As for the bootloader, any ideas?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 7:30 PM, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 07:21:14PM -0500, Charlie Lin wrote:
>>>> > Add one more: EFI support
>>>> > Also, can Plan 9 be booted on Open Firmware? (Used on at least Sun
>>>> SPARC
>>>> > workstations)
>>>> >
>>>> > On Nov 16, 2016 5:27 PM, "Charlie Lin" <charlielin65@gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > Any plans for Plan 9 5th edition?
>>>> > >
>>>> > > My desires:
>>>> > > ISO-compliant C compiler and preprocessor
>>>> > > Port other programming languages (especially Go) to here
>>>> > > Start a source code repository
>>>> > > Port Git, SVN, Mercurial, et cetera to here
>>>> > >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> These are great ideas, is there some central place you can write these
>>>> down so we don't lose track of our goals
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[hiro]

btw. the turing machine should work in user space of course. why would
anyone put that into a kernel?!

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[cinap_lenrek]

calling into firmware code is a big can of worms because firmware is full
of bugs and only works with a small set of the major operating systems that
the firmware authors tested it with.

and theres not really an option for doing it from userspace.

you need to call it from kernel mode ring zero and make sure the firmware
has the same idea of the virtual memory mappings as your kernel plus
work arround the unstated assumptions of the firmware.

linux has a track record of bricked machines and firmware corrupting
memory.

it is just not worth it.

in 9front, the kernel never calls firmware. it does interpret a limited
set of acpi methods on boot to figure out pci interrupt mappings and
and then frees the acpi environment never to return.

all efi/bios calls are done by the bootloader *before* it enters the kernel
so we never have to rely on efi/bios firmware assumptoins. the bootloader
collects the information from efi and passes it to the kernel as plan9.ini
variables.

efi firmware has a boot manager were the user can add and modify entries.

--
cinap

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Steve Simon]

Cinap,

I salute you and the good sense you write.

-Steve




> On 19 Nov 2016, at 16:57, cinap_lenrek@felloff.net wrote:
>
> calling into firmware code is a big can of worms because firmware is full
> of bugs and only works with a small set of the major operating systems that
> the firmware authors tested it with.
>
> and theres not really an option for doing it from userspace.
>
> you need to call it from kernel mode ring zero and make sure the firmware
> has the same idea of the virtual memory mappings as your kernel plus
> work arround the unstated assumptions of the firmware.
>
> linux has a track record of bricked machines and firmware corrupting
> memory.
>
> it is just not worth it.
>
> in 9front, the kernel never calls firmware. it does interpret a limited
> set of acpi methods on boot to figure out pci interrupt mappings and
> and then frees the acpi environment never to return.
>
> all efi/bios calls are done by the bootloader *before* it enters the kernel
> so we never have to rely on efi/bios firmware assumptoins. the bootloader
> collects the information from efi and passes it to the kernel as plan9.ini
> variables.
>
> efi firmware has a boot manager were the user can add and modify entries.
>
> --
> cinap

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Jules Merit]

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9p @ boot is what I made for bootloader. BIOS, PXE, MBR. Not much of a
kernel is needed as one can flash "the" program for cluster nodes.

On Nov 18, 2016 11:57 AM, "Charlie Lin" <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:

My idea: implement a user-space filesystem to expose all EFI variables.
As for the bootloader, any ideas?

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 7:30 PM, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 07:21:14PM -0500, Charlie Lin wrote:
> > Add one more: EFI support
> > Also, can Plan 9 be booted on Open Firmware? (Used on at least Sun SPARC
> > workstations)
> >
> > On Nov 16, 2016 5:27 PM, "Charlie Lin" <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Any plans for Plan 9 5th edition?
> > >
> > > My desires:
> > > ISO-compliant C compiler and preprocessor
> > > Port other programming languages (especially Go) to here
> > > Start a source code repository
> > > Port Git, SVN, Mercurial, et cetera to here
> > >
>
>
> These are great ideas, is there some central place you can write these
> down so we don't lose track of our goals
>
>

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Charlie Lin]

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Who has write access to the Wiki so that we can put the ideas in a TODO
list?
Also does anyone want to host the source tree in a repository?

On Nov 16, 2016 7:21 PM, "Charlie Lin" <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:

> Add one more: EFI support
> Also, can Plan 9 be booted on Open Firmware? (Used on at least Sun SPARC
> workstations)
>
> On Nov 16, 2016 5:27 PM, "Charlie Lin" <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Any plans for Plan 9 5th edition?
>>
>> My desires:
>> ISO-compliant C compiler and preprocessor
>> Port other programming languages (especially Go) to here
>> Start a source code repository
>> Port Git, SVN, Mercurial, et cetera to here
>>
>

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Stanley Lieber]

Charlie there are some things you should know:

        http://fqa.9front.org/fqa0.html

sl

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Kurt H Maier]

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 07:55:38PM -0500, Charlie Lin wrote:
> Also does anyone want to host the source tree in a repository?

This sounds like a lot of work.  Who would undertake this??

khm

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[David Arnold]

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On 17 Nov 2016, at 12:18, Kurt H Maier wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 07:55:38PM -0500, Charlie Lin wrote:

>> Also does anyone want to host the source tree in a repository?
>
> This sounds like a lot of work.  Who would undertake this??

GitHub, GitLab, or BitBucket all provide gratis repository hosting for Git and/or Mercurial.  If one of those were adopted, the work involved for ongoing maintenance is minimal.




d

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[hiro]

i have heard good things about google code

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Ryan Gonzalez]

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...which got shut down earlier this year:

https://opensource.googleblog.com/2015/03/farewell-to-google-code.html?m=1

--
Ryan (ライアン)
Yoko Shimomura > ryo (supercell/EGOIST) > Hiroyuki Sawano >> everyone else
http://kirbyfan64.github.io/

On Nov 19, 2016 8:41 PM, "hiro" <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:

> i have heard good things about google code
>
>

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Kurt H Maier]

On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 10:26:36PM -0600, Ryan Gonzalez wrote:
> ...which got shut down earlier this year:
>
> https://opensource.googleblog.com/2015/03/farewell-to-google-code.html?m=1
>

This must have come to a shock to their users!  I wonder what they did

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[James A. Robinson]

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9fans - best served dry.

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[hiro]

On 11/20/16, Ryan Gonzalez <rymg19@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...which got shut down earlier this year:

That's a lie, nothing has been shut down. Google loves us too much.
Plan 9 is not dead either.
http://r-36.net/9front/9front-5561.df1dc1ff2475.iso.bz2.torrent

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Wes Kussmaul]

On 11/19/2016 05:27 PM, David Arnold wrote:
> On 17 Nov 2016, at 12:18, Kurt H Maier wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 07:55:38PM -0500, Charlie Lin wrote:
>
>>> Also does anyone want to host the source tree in a repository?
>>
>> This sounds like a lot of work.  Who would undertake this??
>
> GitHub, GitLab, or BitBucket all provide gratis repository hosting for Git and/or Mercurial.  If one of those were adopted, the work involved for ongoing maintenance is minimal.

We use gitlab on our team for both repos and task management. I'd be 
happy to create and maintain a group for Plan9.

In fact while I was thinking about it I just did. It's at 
https://gitlab.com/nine-continent


-- 
Wes Kussmaul

The Authenticity Institute
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451

office +1 781 790 1674
mobile +1 781 330 1881

THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE PERSON TO WHOM IT 
IS ADDRESSED.

If it was addressed incorrectly there's not much I can do but ask you 
politely to pretend you didn't see it. Any disclaimer suggesting that 
the sender has some kind of recourse is just wishful thinking.

If I had a message from you that was digitally signed using your Osmio 
VRD™ identity credential from the Osmio Vital Records Department 
(http://osmio.ch), we could easily and at no cost exchange
encrypted messages and files with each other.

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[hiro]

i give up. muted.

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Kurt H Maier]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 09:19:13PM -0500, Wes Kussmaul wrote:
>
>
> On 11/19/2016 05:27 PM, David Arnold wrote:
> > On 17 Nov 2016, at 12:18, Kurt H Maier wrote:
> >> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 07:55:38PM -0500, Charlie Lin wrote:
> >
> >>> Also does anyone want to host the source tree in a repository?
> >>
> >> This sounds like a lot of work.  Who would undertake this??
> >
> > GitHub, GitLab, or BitBucket all provide gratis repository hosting for Git and/or Mercurial.  If one of those were adopted, the work involved for ongoing maintenance is minimal.
>
> We use gitlab on our team for both repos and task management. I'd be
> happy to create and maintain a group for Plan9.
>
> In fact while I was thinking about it I just did. It's at
> https://gitlab.com/nine-continent


Very kind!  Where can I download your Plan 9 git client?

khm

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Sigrid Haflinadóttir]

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How do I register on GitLab though? It tries to show me a captcha, but it
seems mothra doesn't support it! What do I do???

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 09:19:13PM -0500, Wes Kussmaul wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 11/19/2016 05:27 PM, David Arnold wrote:
> > > On 17 Nov 2016, at 12:18, Kurt H Maier wrote:
> > >> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 07:55:38PM -0500, Charlie Lin wrote:
> > >
> > >>> Also does anyone want to host the source tree in a repository?
> > >>
> > >> This sounds like a lot of work.  Who would undertake this??
> > >
> > > GitHub, GitLab, or BitBucket all provide gratis repository hosting for
> Git and/or Mercurial.  If one of those were adopted, the work involved for
> ongoing maintenance is minimal.
> >
> > We use gitlab on our team for both repos and task management. I'd be
> > happy to create and maintain a group for Plan9.
> >
> > In fact while I was thinking about it I just did. It's at
> > https://gitlab.com/nine-continent
>
>
> Very kind!  Where can I download your Plan 9 git client?
>
> khm
>
>

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Wes Kussmaul]

On 11/21/2016 03:46 AM, Sigrid Haflinadóttir wrote:


>     Very kind!  Where can I download your Plan 9 git client?

I'm afraid mine is something of a "stone soup" offering. Perhaps someone 
can add value to the soup by providing a client.


-- 
Wes Kussmaul

The Authenticity Institute
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451

office +1 781 790 1674
mobile +1 781 330 1881

THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE PERSON TO WHOM IT 
IS ADDRESSED.

If it was addressed incorrectly there's not much I can do but ask you 
politely to pretend you didn't see it. Any disclaimer suggesting that 
the sender has some kind of recourse is just wishful thinking.

If I had a message from you that was digitally signed using your Osmio 
VRD™ identity credential from the Osmio Vital Records Department 
(http://osmio.ch), we could easily and at no cost exchange
encrypted messages and files with each other.

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Chris McGee]

This one might be adapted to work for gitlabs. It only supports read only type commands: clone, checkout, pull.

http://9legacy.org/9legacy/tools/git

It could be a start.

Chris

> On Nov 21, 2016, at 10:08 AM, Wes Kussmaul <wes@ReliableID.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/21/2016 03:46 AM, Sigrid Haflinadóttir wrote:
> 
> 
>>    Very kind!  Where can I download your Plan 9 git client?
> 
> I'm afraid mine is something of a "stone soup" offering. Perhaps someone can add value to the soup by providing a client.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Wes Kussmaul
> 
> The Authenticity Institute
> 738 Main Street
> Waltham, MA 02451
> 
> office +1 781 790 1674
> mobile +1 781 330 1881
> 
> THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE PERSON TO WHOM IT IS ADDRESSED.
> 
> If it was addressed incorrectly there's not much I can do but ask you politely to pretend you didn't see it. Any disclaimer suggesting that the sender has some kind of recourse is just wishful thinking.
> 
> If I had a message from you that was digitally signed using your Osmio VRD™ identity credential from the Osmio Vital Records Department (http://osmio.ch), we could easily and at no cost exchange
> encrypted messages and files with each other.
> 
> 
> 

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Charlie Lin]

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Add one more: XHCI (USB 3.0) support, because the USB device driver
currently does not support it, as stated in the USB man page in section 3

On Nov 16, 2016 17:27, "Charlie Lin" <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:

> Any plans for Plan 9 5th edition?
>
> My desires:
> ISO-compliant C compiler and preprocessor
> Port other programming languages (especially Go) to here
> Start a source code repository
> Port Git, SVN, Mercurial, et cetera to here
>

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Charlie Lin]

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Any features that should be incorporated into Plan 9?
Also, where are the developers? Do they still maintain it? If not, I guess
we assume the role of maintainers...

On Nov 16, 2016 17:27, "Charlie Lin" <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:

> Any plans for Plan 9 5th edition?
>
> My desires:
> ISO-compliant C compiler and preprocessor
> Port other programming languages (especially Go) to here
> Start a source code repository
> Port Git, SVN, Mercurial, et cetera to here
>

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Steve Simon]

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Almost all of the original plan9 team work for google now.

some of them work on Go, a language which has shared ancestry with alef and limbo.

there are not maintainers as such, though some people do maintenance and some still develop new features and ports.

plan9 is ad hoc.

i still think it's vastly better than anything else.

and what i want for plan9?
native gcc cross compilers (for work), oauth2 support in webfs, native firefox, and native svn would do nicely.

-Steve

> On 19 Nov 2016, at 20:37, Charlie Lin <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Any features that should be incorporated into Plan 9?
> Also, where are the developers? Do they still maintain it? If not, I guess we assume the role of maintainers...
> 
> 
>> On Nov 16, 2016 17:27, "Charlie Lin" <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Any plans for Plan 9 5th edition?
>> 
>> My desires:
>> ISO-compliant C compiler and preprocessor
>> Port other programming languages (especially Go) to here
>> Start a source code repository
>> Port Git, SVN, Mercurial, et cetera to here

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Stanley Lieber]

http://fqa.9front.org/fqa0.html#0.2.3

sl

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[Chris McGee]

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I like the idea of focusing on the functionality, not specific software, that could go into a 5th edition. It seems that stepping back and rethinking popular industry trends led to some of the unique and interesting decisions that gave us plan9 in the first place.

Here is what I'd like to see
-3D graphics (something akin to /dev/draw except for graphics pipelines)
-Location capabilities (gps, map drawing, routing)
-Mobile interface (clean, simple, optimized for small and touch screens)
-2D graphics editing (edit photographs or make raster art from scratch, layers, antialiasing, filesystem for scripting)
-3D printing (manipulate 3D model data, output one of the standard formats for printers)
-Knowledge/AI system (plug in statements, make inferences)
-Notifications (deliver events, alerts and reminders to my attention in a consistent manner)
-Search quickly for files based on content (indices, also accessible via 9P, there's a paper floating around about this)
-Easily find disk space statistics (free disk space for each file system)
-Single Instruction Multiple Data (language and compiler for writing programs that can use these special instructions)
-Video playback and recording (support for most popular 3 codecs, including one of the free ones, syncing of audio stream, record from camera and/or screen)
-Clean HTML (not fully featured web browser, instead render existing HTML in a clean, readable way, not unlike the various reader modes in popular web browsers, convert to PDF/PS)

I think that each of these can be done in the plan9 way with simple, consistent and elegant implementations that integrate well with the rest of the system. The focus is to enable capability and not necessarily to just port existing software, repeating existing complexity and bloat.

Chris

> On Nov 19, 2016, at 3:37 PM, Charlie Lin <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Any features that should be incorporated into Plan 9?
> 
> 
>> On Nov 16, 2016 17:27, "Charlie Lin" <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Any plans for Plan 9 5th edition?
>> 
>> My desires:
>> ISO-compliant C compiler and preprocessor
>> Port other programming languages (especially Go) to here
>> Start a source code repository
>> Port Git, SVN, Mercurial, et cetera to here

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[hiro]

you have to be careful with these feature requests, some don't really
bring plan 9 forward, because they are too generally useful and not
plan 9 specific enough.

On 11/20/16, Chris McGee <newton688@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like the idea of focusing on the functionality, not specific software,
> that could go into a 5th edition. It seems that stepping back and rethinking
> popular industry trends led to some of the unique and interesting decisions
> that gave us plan9 in the first place.
>
> Here is what I'd like to see
> -3D graphics (something akin to /dev/draw except for graphics pipelines)
> -Location capabilities (gps, map drawing, routing)
> -Mobile interface (clean, simple, optimized for small and touch screens)
> -2D graphics editing (edit photographs or make raster art from scratch,
> layers, antialiasing, filesystem for scripting)
> -3D printing (manipulate 3D model data, output one of the standard formats
> for printers)
> -Knowledge/AI system (plug in statements, make inferences)
> -Notifications (deliver events, alerts and reminders to my attention in a
> consistent manner)
> -Search quickly for files based on content (indices, also accessible via 9P,
> there's a paper floating around about this)
> -Easily find disk space statistics (free disk space for each file system)
> -Single Instruction Multiple Data (language and compiler for writing
> programs that can use these special instructions)
> -Video playback and recording (support for most popular 3 codecs, including
> one of the free ones, syncing of audio stream, record from camera and/or
> screen)
> -Clean HTML (not fully featured web browser, instead render existing HTML in
> a clean, readable way, not unlike the various reader modes in popular web
> browsers, convert to PDF/PS)
>
> I think that each of these can be done in the plan9 way with simple,
> consistent and elegant implementations that integrate well with the rest of
> the system. The focus is to enable capability and not necessarily to just
> port existing software, repeating existing complexity and bloat.
>
> Chris
>
>> On Nov 19, 2016, at 3:37 PM, Charlie Lin <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Any features that should be incorporated into Plan 9?
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 16, 2016 17:27, "Charlie Lin" <charlielin65@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Any plans for Plan 9 5th edition?
>>>
>>> My desires:
>>> ISO-compliant C compiler and preprocessor
>>> Port other programming languages (especially Go) to here
>>> Start a source code repository
>>> Port Git, SVN, Mercurial, et cetera to here
>