* [9fans] Purism laptops @ 2016-11-11 18:51 James A. Robinson 2016-11-11 21:42 ` Charles Forsyth ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: James A. Robinson @ 2016-11-11 18:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 251 bytes --] Have folks seen https://puri.sm/ ? Their description of how they are trying to put together "open" hardware (not 100% there yet) makes me wonder if it'd be open enough w/re to hardware specs to make it a target for Plan 9 porting/support. Jim [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 388 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Purism laptops 2016-11-11 18:51 [9fans] Purism laptops James A. Robinson @ 2016-11-11 21:42 ` Charles Forsyth 2016-11-11 23:39 ` Ryan Gonzalez 2016-11-12 16:19 ` Andrés Domínguez 2 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Charles Forsyth @ 2016-11-11 21:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 199 bytes --] On 11 November 2016 at 18:51, James A. Robinson <jim.robinson@gmail.com> wrote: > Have folks seen https://puri.sm/ ? Their description of how they are > trying > t > They look quite nice [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 559 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Purism laptops 2016-11-11 18:51 [9fans] Purism laptops James A. Robinson 2016-11-11 21:42 ` Charles Forsyth @ 2016-11-11 23:39 ` Ryan Gonzalez 2016-11-12 0:07 ` James A. Robinson 2016-11-12 16:19 ` Andrés Domínguez 2 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Ryan Gonzalez @ 2016-11-11 23:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 544 bytes --] Those things really aren't cheap, are they... On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 12:51 PM, James A. Robinson <jim.robinson@gmail.com> wrote: > Have folks seen https://puri.sm/ ? Their description of how they are > trying > to put together "open" hardware (not 100% there yet) makes me wonder if > it'd be open enough w/re to hardware specs to make it a target for Plan 9 > porting/support. > > Jim > > -- Ryan (ライアン) Yoko Shimomura > ryo (supercell/EGOIST) > Hiroyuki Sawano >> everyone else http://kirbyfan64.github.io/ [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1495 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Purism laptops 2016-11-11 23:39 ` Ryan Gonzalez @ 2016-11-12 0:07 ` James A. Robinson 0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: James A. Robinson @ 2016-11-12 0:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 584 bytes --] No, although I imagine you could just buy upgrade parts separately and put them in yourself. They appear to have designed the laptop to make it fairly easy to open up to add your own parts. What really disappoints me is how they are backordered for 1-2 months on the 13" and 6-7 months on the 15". I guess they haven't got enough traction yet to be on a regular build cycle (makes me think of the issues getting ahold of One Plus One phone). On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 3:41 PM Ryan Gonzalez <rymg19@gmail.com> wrote: > Those things really aren't cheap, are they... > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 990 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Purism laptops 2016-11-11 18:51 [9fans] Purism laptops James A. Robinson 2016-11-11 21:42 ` Charles Forsyth 2016-11-11 23:39 ` Ryan Gonzalez @ 2016-11-12 16:19 ` Andrés Domínguez 2016-11-12 19:22 ` James A. Robinson 2 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Andrés Domínguez @ 2016-11-12 16:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs 2016-11-11 19:51 GMT+01:00 James A. Robinson <jim.robinson@gmail.com>: > Have folks seen https://puri.sm/ ? Their description of how they are trying > to put together "open" hardware (not 100% there yet) Do they really make open hardware? In what aspect is their hardware more open than any other laptop? Andrés makes me wonder if > it'd be open enough w/re to hardware specs to make it a target for Plan 9 > porting/support. > > Jim > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Purism laptops 2016-11-12 16:19 ` Andrés Domínguez @ 2016-11-12 19:22 ` James A. Robinson 2016-11-12 21:10 ` Harri Haataja 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: James A. Robinson @ 2016-11-12 19:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1993 bytes --] On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Andrés Domínguez <andresdju@gmail.com> wrote: > Do they really make open hardware? In what aspect > is their hardware more open than any other laptop? Hi, A summary would bet hat typically the hardware drivers that are run on a computer come in two possible forms, either closed source or open source. A closed source driver, a binary blob, would have an externally documented API but nothing telling you what is going on inside the API to drive the hardware, it's a black box from our perspective, and of course it's an executable targeted at a specific OS such as Windows, or on the rare occasion Linux. An alternative is open source. Either the manufacturer is releasing the source code for the driver or they are documenting the details of the hardware internals and making it openly available, so that someone with motivation can write an open source driver. So I think that leaves us with three possible states for the components of a computer: 1. Undocumented hardware, and the manufacturer releases a black-box binary blob to drive it for a specific set of operating system. 2. Fully documented hardware, and someone has written an open source driver for the hardware. In some cases this a "white room" situation where one person signs an NDA in order to get the documents but are then allowed to release a freely available driver (I think this is the case with a few driver used in Linux on the Raspberry Pi). 3. Fully documented hardware and paired with an open source driver for the hardware from the manufacturer. I was having a discussion with someone about a variant of this issue a month ago. They planned to write a driver for a piece of hardware, but the ideal situation of the hardware specification being available was not the case. However, a Linux open source driver was available, so he thought he'd be able to examine that and reverse engineer it for Plan 9. Jim [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 8073 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Purism laptops 2016-11-12 19:22 ` James A. Robinson @ 2016-11-12 21:10 ` Harri Haataja 2016-11-12 21:28 ` James A. Robinson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Harri Haataja @ 2016-11-12 21:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On 12 November 2016 at 21:22, James A. Robinson <jimr@highwire.org> wrote: > On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 8:19 AM, > Andrés Domínguez <andresdju@gmail.com> wrote: >> Do they really make open hardware? In what aspect >> is their hardware more open than any other laptop? > > A summary would bet hat typically the hardware > drivers that are run on a computer come in two possible > forms, either closed source or open source. https://puri.sm/learn/blobs/ Indeed, blobs seems to be one point. Another thing seems to be that they advertise that these laptops have no hidden features or remote control. How they could claim to guarantee this and how a customer could possibly believe them, I don't know. Having hardware kill switches is also nice, but guarantees that they truly stop any access to camera, mic, or whatnot might be hard to make. Trust or no trust, they might be offering some desirable hardware there. -- I appear to be temporarily using gmail's horrible interface. I apologise for any failure in my part in trying to make it do the right thing with post formatting. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Purism laptops 2016-11-12 21:10 ` Harri Haataja @ 2016-11-12 21:28 ` James A. Robinson 0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: James A. Robinson @ 2016-11-12 21:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1106 bytes --] On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 1:12 PM Harri Haataja <realblades@gmail.com> wrote: > https://puri.sm/learn/blobs/ Indeed, blobs seems to be one point. > > Another thing seems to be that they advertise that these laptops > have no hidden features or remote control. How they could claim to > guarantee this and how a customer could possibly believe them, I > don't know. > > Having hardware kill switches is also nice, but guarantees that > they truly stop any access to camera, mic, or whatnot might be hard > to make. > > Trust or no trust, they might be offering some desirable hardware > there. Good points. Something that might have been unclear from my original use of the words "put together 'open' hardware" is that they are simply gathering together hardware from various vendors, not manufacturing the hardware themselves. They are assembling laptops and trying to work with vendors they find acceptable. But I wasn't so drawn by the privacy issues as I was to the idea of having a high end laptop that might be documented enough that one could port another OS to it. Jim [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1553 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2016-11-12 21:28 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2016-11-11 18:51 [9fans] Purism laptops James A. Robinson 2016-11-11 21:42 ` Charles Forsyth 2016-11-11 23:39 ` Ryan Gonzalez 2016-11-12 0:07 ` James A. Robinson 2016-11-12 16:19 ` Andrés Domínguez 2016-11-12 19:22 ` James A. Robinson 2016-11-12 21:10 ` Harri Haataja 2016-11-12 21:28 ` James A. Robinson
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