[Caml-list] Some logo for your OCaml related websites

[Caml-list] Some logo for your OCaml related websites

[Olivier Grisel]

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Dear all,

Some time ago, there was a thread [1] on this list about setting up a 
community website for OCaml users/developers. Richard was planning to 
setup a wiki and a gforge server. In the mean time, here is my little 
contribution to the branding of such a website: a set of logo proposals 
based on the classical gif file (the camel face with sun glasses):
http://champi.champiland.homelinux.org/~olivier/ocaml-logos.html
I provide the SVG source file so that anybody can further enhance this 
early proposal.

Best,

--
Olivier

[1] http://caml.inria.fr/archives/200405/msg00412.html

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Re: [Caml-list] Some logo for your OCaml related websites

[Olivier Grisel]

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I forward this last mail to the caml-list since I forgot to "replay-all" 
before ...

Benjamin Geer a écrit :
> Olivier Grisel wrote:
> 
>> I feel very sorry butI wasn't aware of the origin of this "Joe Camel" 
>> think.
> 
> 
> It was a huge, very controversial advertising campaign... a lot of 
> people were (and still are) very angry about it, all over the world.
> 
>> I can remove the grass bit to try to break the association with the 
>> Joe Camel.
>>
>> What do you think ?
> 
> 
> I don't think it would help.  The shape of the camel face (even without 
> the sunglasses) is what makes it Joe Camel.  This was the intention of 
> the OCaml team when they chose this logo, apparently as a joke (in very 
> bad taste, I think).
> 
> I think OCaml needs a completely new logo.
> 
> The problem of how to make it different from the Perl logo is 
> interesting.  Actually O'Reilly has a trademark on the use of a camel to 
> represent a programming language:
> 
> http://perl.oreilly.com/usage
> 
> I asked them about this last year, and they said they currently had no 
> position on the use of a camel to represent the OCaml language.  I don't 
> know whether they might eventually cause trouble.  You might want to ask 
> them about it.
> 
> Another alternative would be to make a logo that doesn't represent a 
> camel at all.

I agree. Anybody has a better idea ? What could symobolize the ocaml 
programming language ? OReilly seems to think a horse[1] might do, but 
I'm  not quite so sure :o)

[1] http://web.linuxfr.org/2001/03/05/2585.html

Best,

--
Olivier

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RE: [Caml-list] Some logo for your OCaml related websites

[Brandon J. Van Every]

Olivier Grisel wrote:
> Benjamin Geer a écrit :
> >
> > I don't think it would help.  The shape of the camel face
> > (even without
> > the sunglasses) is what makes it Joe Camel.  This was the
> > intention of
> > the OCaml team when they chose this logo, apparently as a
> > joke (in very bad taste, I think).
> >
> > I think OCaml needs a completely new logo.

Yep.  The proferred logo is a clear violation of R.J.Reynolds Tobacco's
trademark.  It can't be used for serious marketing of OCaml, the legal
liabilities are obvious.  (N.B. My Dad was General Counsel for R.J.R.
Tobacco International for many years and retired as the arch spin
doctor!  Makin' the world safe for smoking since 1981.)

> > The problem of how to make it different from the Perl logo is
> > interesting.  Actually O'Reilly has a trademark on the use
> > of a camel to represent a programming language:
> >
> > http://perl.oreilly.com/usage

When I was working on various logo concepts for Python, we realized
there were 3 ways to treat an animal:

- realistically
- comically
- abstractly

We worked on graphical abstracitons of snakes because (1) we knew some
people would have negative associations with realistic snakes, (2) we
were trying to appeal to 'suits' and they wouldn't like cutesy stuff.
After many design iterations, we arrived at
http://www.pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main-oct05.png
The use of the snake is rather subtle.

I would suggest working on abstracitons of camels, so as to keep it
'clean' for suit consumption, and all the moreso because Functional
Programming is about providing better abstractions.

If anyone actually has digital art talent and wants to work on this, I'd
be happy to start a mailing list called 'ocaml-marketing'.  My own
digital art skills are exceedingly limited.  What I can offer is: I have
ok traditional art skills, a critical eye, and I've been through this
kind of logo creation process before.  My own bad logo submissions were
what got better artists to do real work to cough up real logos.  Sort of
a "put up or shut up" approach.

Getting INRIA's buy-in on any branding effort is key, as they probably
have legal control over how OCaml might be trademarked.  We utterly
failed to secure the Python Software Foundation's buy-in, and
consequently all our hard work was torpedoed.  I see securing the
blessing of the controlling organization as far more important than the
logo itself.  Given a blessing, an acceptable logo can always be arrived
at.  Without a blessing, all logo efforts are doomed.

> > Another alternative would be to make a logo that doesn't
> > represent a camel at all.

I think it would be a huge mistake to blow off the memorization value of
camels for OCaml.  What you want is a camel that doesn't cause any
confusion with regards to O'Reilly's trademark.  Again, try
abstractions.  For instance, you could use just the hump of a camel.

Now let's find out if the Bayesian filter is going to bitch and complain
about the oddness of this post compared to other caml-list posts.  Since
you're reading this, I guess not!  That leaves only the humans...


Cheers,                         www.indiegamedesign.com
Brand*n Van Every               S*attle, WA

Praise Be to the caml-list Bayesian filter! It blesseth
my postings, it is evil crap!  evil crap!  Bigarray!
Unboxed overhead group!  Wondering!  chant chant chant...

// return an array of 100 packed tuples
temps
  int $[tvar0][2*100]; // what the c function needs
  value $[tvar1]; // one int
  value $[tvar2]; // one tuple
  int $[tvar3] // loop control var
oncePre
eachPre
  $[cvar0]=&($[tvar0][0]);
eachPost
  $[lvar0] = alloc(2*100, 0 /*NB: zero-tagged block*/ );
  for(int $[tvar3]=0;$[tvar3]<100;$[tvar3]++) {
    $[tvar2] = alloc_tuple(2);
    $[tvar1] = Val_int($[cvar0][0+2*$[tvar3]]);
    Store_field($[tvar2],0,$[tvar1]);
    $[tvar1] = Val_int($[cvar0][1]);
    Store_field($[tvar2],1,$[tvar1+2*$[tvar3]]);
    Array_store($[lvar0],$[tvar3],$[tvar0]);
  }
oncePost

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Re: [Caml-list] Some logo for your OCaml related websites

[Damien Doligez]

Benjamin Geer a écrit :

> Another alternative would be to make a logo that doesn't represent a 
> camel at all.

A pearl in its oyster?

-- Damien

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Re: [Caml-list] Some logo for your OCaml related websites

[William D. Neumann]

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:03:05 +0200, Damien Doligez wrote

> Benjamin Geer a écrit :
> 
> > Another alternative would be to make a logo that doesn't represent a 
> > camel at all.
> 
> A pearl in its oyster?

Heh.  I thought this suggestion was funny enough that I decided to whip something together to see 
how it looks.  Being somewhat pleased with the results, I decided to let you guys have a peek if you 
want.  The images are located at <http://www.unm.edu/~wdnx/camlpearl.html>.

Enjoy.

William D. Neumann

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Re: [Caml-list] Some logo for your OCaml related websites

[Sven Luther]

On Mon, Aug 23, 2004 at 12:10:17PM -0600, William D. Neumann wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:03:05 +0200, Damien Doligez wrote
> 
> > Benjamin Geer a écrit :
> > 
> > > Another alternative would be to make a logo that doesn't represent a 
> > > camel at all.
> > 
> > A pearl in its oyster?
> 
> Heh.  I thought this suggestion was funny enough that I decided to whip something together to see 
> how it looks.  Being somewhat pleased with the results, I decided to let you guys have a peek if you 
> want.  The images are located at <http://www.unm.edu/~wdnx/camlpearl.html>.

I guess the idea was for the perl guys to adopt it though.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

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Re: [Caml-list] Some logo for your OCaml related websites

[William D. Neumann]

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:45:58 +0200, Sven Luther wrote

> I guess the idea was for the perl guys to adopt it though.

Perhaps.  But this offers up a delicious bit of irony:

Perl -> Camel::Caml -> Pearl

Well, it made me chuckle, at least.

William D. Neumann

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Re: [Caml-list] Some logo for your OCaml related websites

[skaller]

On Tue, 2004-08-24 at 04:45, William D. Neumann wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:45:58 +0200, Sven Luther wrote
> 
> > I guess the idea was for the perl guys to adopt it though.
> 
> Perhaps.  But this offers up a delicious bit of irony:
> 
> Perl -> Camel::Caml -> Pearl
> 
> Well, it made me chuckle, at least.
> 
> William D. Neumann

Oh heck, lets open negotiations to swap prisoners.

-- 
John Skaller, mailto:skaller@users.sf.net
voice: 061-2-9660-0850, 
snail: PO BOX 401 Glebe NSW 2037 Australia
Checkout the Felix programming language http://felix.sf.net



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Re: [Caml-list] Some logo for your OCaml related websites

[Brian Hurt]

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004, Damien Doligez wrote:

> Benjamin Geer a écrit :
> 
> > Another alternative would be to make a logo that doesn't represent a 
> > camel at all.
> 
> A pearl in its oyster?

In the interest of brainstorming, why does it have to be an animal?  The 
CAM in Ocaml came from the Catagorical Abstract Machine.  Consider 
machine shapes- especially cogs and cams.

-- 
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive,
difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of
mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it."
                                - Gene Spafford 
Brian

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Re: [Caml-list] Some logo for your OCaml related websites

[Christophe Raffalli]

Brian Hurt wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004, Damien Doligez wrote:
>>Benjamin Geer a écrit :
>>
>>A pearl in its oyster?
> 
> 
> In the interest of brainstorming, why does it have to be an animal?  The 
> CAM in Ocaml came from the Catagorical Abstract Machine.  Consider 
> machine shapes- especially cogs and cams.
> 

What about a machine transforming garbage into pearl or diamond ?

-- 
Christophe Raffalli
Université de Savoie
Batiment Le Chablais, bureau 21
73376 Le Bourget-du-Lac Cedex

tél: (33) 4 79 75 81 03
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mail: Christophe.Raffalli@univ-savoie.fr
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RE: [Caml-list] Some logo for your OCaml related websites

[Brandon J. Van Every]

Olivier Grisel wrote:
>
> As this thread is a bit off topic, the sooner we fork the discussion
> outside the better it is. But could we avoid yet another ad-prone
> mailing list server (eg yahoo groups): gna.org (and others)
> offer free
> mailing lists and web hosting for free software related
> projects with no ad pollution.

I forgot that ocaml-biz exists, since it's been quiet as death.
http://cgorski.org/mailman/listinfo/ocaml-biz_cgorski.org
Let's use that.

Olivier, I tried to reply privately to you, but your address had
permanent fatal errors.


Cheers,                         www.indiegamedesign.com
Brand*n Van Every               S*attle, WA

Praise Be to the caml-list Bayesian filter! It blesseth
my postings, it is evil crap!  evil crap!  Bigarray!
Unboxed overhead group!  Wondering!  chant chant chant...

// return an array of 100 packed tuples
temps
  int $[tvar0][2*100]; // what the c function needs
  value $[tvar1]; // one int
  value $[tvar2]; // one tuple
  int $[tvar3] // loop control var
oncePre
eachPre
  $[cvar0]=&($[tvar0][0]);
eachPost
  $[lvar0] = alloc(2*100, 0 /*NB: zero-tagged block*/ );
  for(int $[tvar3]=0;$[tvar3]<100;$[tvar3]++) {
    $[tvar2] = alloc_tuple(2);
    $[tvar1] = Val_int($[cvar0][0+2*$[tvar3]]);
    Store_field($[tvar2],0,$[tvar1]);
    $[tvar1] = Val_int($[cvar0][1]);
    Store_field($[tvar2],1,$[tvar1+2*$[tvar3]]);
    Array_store($[lvar0],$[tvar3],$[tvar0]);
  }
oncePost

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Re: [Caml-list] Some logo for your OCaml related websites

[Olivier Grisel]

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Brian Hurt a écrit :
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, Olivier Grisel wrote:
>
>>Interesting, but how does a Catagorical Abstract Machine look?
> 
> 
> A lot like Lisp in reality, but wer're talking marketing here.
> 
I was indeed asking how do CAM *visually* look, so as to draw a logo out 
of them ...

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