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From: Dave Berry <daveb@tardis.ed.ac.uk>
To: Markus Mottl <markus@oefai.at>, Oleg <oleg_inconnu@myrealbox.com>
Cc: OCaml <caml-list@inria.fr>
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Re: productivity improvement
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 21:44:11 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4.1.20020714213245.00a37f00@pop3.btclick.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20020712114311.GD684@fichte.ai.univie.ac.at>

At 13:43 12/07/2002, Markus Mottl wrote:
>I'd say that depending on the kind of the problem 1:3
>to 1:10 is reasonable and fits well to the experience of others. E.g.,
>the Erlang developers also report productivity gains in this range on
>large-scale commercial projects. OCaml will most likely have similar
>ratios.

I find it unlikely that OCaml would increase productivity as much as
Erlang. Erlang is designed primarily for concurrent programming (I
believe).  When people attempt concurrent programming in C, C++ or Java,
they typically use primitive notions such as threads and locks.  This is
noticeably harder and more error-prone than sequential programming.
Therefore any language that concentrates on this problem has more to gain
than a primarily sequential language.  AFAIK, OCaml uses threads and locks
for concurrent programming, and so is no better in this respect than
conventional languages (it could even be worse, depending on how its GC
interacts with threads and distributed code).

As a commercial manager, I've seen a productivity improvement of about 50%
using Java over C++ -- mainly arising from automatic memory management, and
a slightly cleaner language.  I would expect OCaml to have that 50%, and
perhaps another for a more expressive type system, making 2:1.  For some
problems, e.g. compilers, the increase might be more, say 3:1 or 4:1.  For
comparison, this is also the productivity improvement I'd expect to see
using Visual Basic over C/C++ for small GUI/Database problems.

Dave.
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2002-07-14 20:47 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 94+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-07-08 19:53 [Caml-list] " Oleg
2002-07-08 20:14 ` Michael Vanier
2002-07-10 15:50   ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-10 18:56     ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-10 19:09       ` Jun P.FURUSE
2002-07-11 23:43         ` Pierre Weis
     [not found] ` <15657.61603.221054.289184@spike.artisan.com>
2002-07-09  4:43   ` [Caml-list] Universal Serializer (was: productivity improvement) Oleg
2002-07-09  7:56     ` Nicolas Cannasse
2002-07-09  7:59     ` Nicolas Cannasse
2002-07-10 16:06       ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-10 22:29         ` Michael Vanier
2002-07-11  8:13           ` Nicolas Cannasse
2002-07-12 12:41           ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-14 12:25             ` [Caml-list] Statically detecting arrays bound exceptions ?? (was: Universal Serializer) Berke Durak
2002-07-14 13:24               ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-15  8:23                 ` Xavier Leroy
2002-07-15  8:39                 ` Noel Welsh
2002-07-15 21:22                   ` Oleg
2002-07-15 22:44                     ` Michael Vanier
2002-07-16  6:43                     ` Florian Hars
2002-07-16 20:22               ` [Caml-list] " John Max Skaller
2002-07-16 20:36                 ` Johan Baltié
2002-07-16 20:55                   ` Hao-yang Wang
2002-07-17  8:25                   ` Noel Welsh
2002-07-12  1:41         ` [Caml-list] Universal Serializer (was: productivity improvement) Eray Ozkural
2002-07-12  8:10           ` [Caml-list] OCaml QT bindings Stefano Zacchiroli
2002-07-12 17:30             ` Eray Ozkural
2002-07-12 10:37         ` [Caml-list] Re: productivity improvement Oleg
2002-07-12 11:23           ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-12 11:34             ` Oleg
2002-07-12 11:43               ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-12 12:59                 ` Pierre Weis
2002-07-12 16:42                   ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-14 20:44                 ` Dave Berry [this message]
2002-07-14 22:13                   ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-15 16:43                     ` Alwyn Goodloe
2002-07-16 20:14                     ` Dave Berry
2002-07-17  3:21                       ` Eric Merritt
2002-07-15  9:39                   ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-10-15  8:38                   ` Eray Ozkural
2002-10-17 21:27                     ` Dave Berry
2002-10-18  2:48                       ` Eray Ozkural
2002-10-20 12:46                         ` Dave Berry
2002-10-21  6:11                           ` Michael Vanier
2003-05-10 20:41                           ` Eray Ozkural
2002-07-12 11:43             ` Noel Welsh
2002-07-12 12:10               ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-12 13:44           ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-12 16:19             ` Alan Schmitt
2002-07-12 20:41             ` John Carr
2002-07-13 21:19               ` [Caml-list] Re: productivity improvementu Pierre Weis
2002-07-12 21:24             ` [Caml-list] Re: productivity improvement Brian Smith
2002-10-15  8:57             ` Eray Ozkural
2002-10-15 11:50               ` [Caml-list] eproductivity improvement Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-09 12:45 ` [Caml-list] productivity improvement Basile STARYNKEVITCH
2002-07-09 18:20   ` Shannon --jj Behrens
2002-07-09 19:16     ` Oleg
2002-07-09 20:31       ` Shannon --jj Behrens
2002-07-10 10:02     ` sebastien FURIC
2002-07-10 11:58       ` Dave Mason
2002-07-10 13:11         ` sebastien FURIC
2002-07-10 19:22           ` nadji
2002-07-10 20:15       ` Sieve of Eratosthenes Performance: various languages (Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement) Oleg
2002-07-10 20:34         ` [Caml-list] " William D. Neumann
2002-07-10 20:47           ` [Caml-list] Re: Sieve of Eratosthenes Performance: various languages Alexander V.Voinov
2002-07-10 21:16             ` William D. Neumann
2002-07-10 20:49           ` [Caml-list] Re: Sieve of Eratosthenes Performance: various languages (Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement) William D. Neumann
2002-07-11 22:30           ` [Caml-list] Array.resize ? Oleg
2002-07-11 23:06             ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-12 13:01               ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-12 18:24                 ` Shawn Wagner
2002-07-11 23:31             ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-12 12:54             ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-12 13:23               ` Olivier Andrieu
2002-07-12 14:05                 ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-12 16:09               ` Brian Rogoff
2002-10-19  9:16                 ` Eray Ozkural
2002-10-19 22:15                   ` [Caml-list] debugger losing contact with debuggee process Lex Stein
2002-10-20 10:06                     ` Pierre Weis
2002-10-21  9:11                     ` Xavier Leroy
2002-10-18  3:05             ` [Caml-list] Array.resize ? Eray Ozkural
2002-10-19  1:51               ` Oleg
2003-05-10 20:24                 ` Eray Ozkural
2002-07-10 20:48         ` Sieve of Eratosthenes Performance: various languages (Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement) Markus Mottl
2002-07-11  5:53           ` Anton E. Moscal
2002-10-18  3:07           ` Eray Ozkural
2002-07-10 15:39 ` [Caml-list] productivity improvement John Max Skaller
2002-07-11  8:57   ` Nicolas barnier
2002-07-12 12:16   ` [Caml-list] Is this a bug? John Max Skaller
2002-07-12 14:05     ` Xavier Leroy
2002-07-16  3:34   ` [Caml-list] productivity improvement Oleg
2002-10-18  3:13     ` Eray Ozkural
2002-07-15  6:00 [Caml-list] " Ohad Rodeh
2002-07-16 20:18 ` Dave Berry

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