categories - Category Theory list
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Zinovy Diskin <zdiskin@gmail.com>
To: zoran skoda <zskoda@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: A well kept secret?
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:31:10 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1NNRTB-0003eB-9f@mailserv.mta.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <d4da910b0912220859q3858b68am4e58749f21ce839d@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Zoran,

You misunderstood my posting, or I phrased it badly, because

On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 11:59 AM, zoran skoda <zskoda@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Zinovy,
>
> I can say that I dislike your selling/marketing despair and do not share
> excitement in the existence of an easy niche market you propose.
>

in the list "despair-excitement-easy niche", only the second term is
true. Building mathematical models for engineering problems is a hard
business, and the suggestion to view it as a fruitful area for
categorical applications stems from optimism about the power of
category theory, rather than from despair.

I'm not going to defend the market metaphor -- it's doubtful anyway.
Still, I'd like to clarify a couple of points.

1) I think that both sources of mathematical development, the internal
one based on aesthetic criteria and consistency, and the external one
based on applications, are equally important and mutually beneficial.
Apart from posing interesting problems, applications provide novel
interpretations of formal constructs, which is always fruitful.  After
all, effectively applicable  mathematics turns out to be aesthetically
appealing as well (Eugene Vigner wrote a famous paper about this "On
inaccessible effectiveness of mathematics in natural sciences")

2) The problem of "category theory vs. mathematics" is beyond
mathematics as such. A lot of problems could be avoided if a taste for
categorical thinking were cultivated in high school, and the basics of
category theory were taught to mathematicians, scientists, engineers
at the undergrad level. But education is one of the most conservative
social institutes with a huge inertia. Turning mathematical education
towards category theory needs financial and administrative support,
and an external demand. Applications of category theory to engineering
problems would be beneficial in this respect too.

Z.


[For admin and other information see: http://www.mta.ca/~cat-dist/ ]


  parent reply	other threads:[~2009-12-23  4:31 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 54+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-12-17 23:30 peasthope
2009-12-18  4:09 ` John Baez
2009-12-18 22:25   ` Ellis D. Cooper
2009-12-19 17:45     ` Ronnie Brown
2009-12-19 22:16     ` John Baez
2009-12-20 22:52       ` Greg Meredith
2009-12-21 15:46       ` Zinovy Diskin
2009-12-22 16:59         ` zoran skoda
2009-12-23  1:53       ` Tom Leinster
2009-12-23 14:15         ` Colin McLarty
2009-12-23 19:10       ` CatLab Joyal, André
2009-12-20 21:50     ` A well kept secret? jim stasheff
     [not found]     ` <d4da910b0912220859q3858b68am4e58749f21ce839d@mail.gmail.com>
2009-12-23  4:31       ` Zinovy Diskin [this message]
2009-12-23 14:35         ` Ronnie Brown
     [not found]     ` <4B322ACA.50202@btinternet.com>
2009-12-25 20:06       ` Zinovy Diskin
2009-12-20 17:50   ` Joyal, André
     [not found]     ` <B3C24EA955FF0C4EA14658997CD3E25E2159B6AA@CAHIER.gst.uqam.ca>
2009-12-21  8:43       ` additions Joyal, André
2009-12-21 14:16         ` additions Bob Coecke
2009-12-22  2:24           ` additions Joyal, André
2009-12-23 20:51             ` additions Thorsten Altenkirch
2009-12-24 23:55             ` additions Dusko Pavlovic
2009-12-26  2:14             ` additions Peter Selinger
     [not found]           ` <B3C24EA955FF0C4EA14658997CD3E25E370F5626@CAHIER.gst.uqam.ca>
     [not found]             ` <B3C24EA955FF0C4EA14658997CD3E25E370F5636@CAHIER.gst.uqam.ca>
     [not found]               ` <B3C24EA955FF0C4EA14658997CD3E25E370F5638@CAHIER.gst.uqam.ca>
2009-12-28 17:54                 ` quantum information and foundation Joyal, André
2009-12-29 12:13                   ` Urs Schreiber
2009-12-29 15:55                   ` zoran skoda
2009-12-22  0:39         ` additions Mike Stay
2009-12-23 11:19           ` additions Steve Vickers
2009-12-23 18:06             ` additions Mike Stay
2009-12-24 13:12               ` additions Carsten Führmann
2009-12-24 19:23               ` additions Dusko Pavlovic
2009-12-23 19:06             ` additions Thorsten Altenkirch
     [not found]         ` <Pine.LNX.4.64.0912211413340.15997@msr03.math.mcgill.ca>
     [not found]           ` <B3C24EA955FF0C4EA14658997CD3E25E2159B6B3@CAHIER.gst.uqam.ca>
2009-12-23 17:08             ` RE : categories: additions Joyal, André
2009-12-21 19:20   ` additions Michael Barr
2009-12-27 23:14   ` quantum information and foundation Dusko Pavlovic
     [not found]   ` <Pine.GSO.4.64.0912272037140.28761@merc3.comlab>
2009-12-28 16:38     ` Bob Coecke
     [not found]   ` <Pine.GSO.4.64.0912281630040.29390@merc4.comlab>
2009-12-28 18:17     ` Bob Coecke
2009-12-18 10:48 ` A well kept secret? KCHM
2009-12-19 20:55   ` Vaughan Pratt
2009-12-22 12:21 ` additions Mark Weber
2009-12-23  0:05   ` additions Scott Morrison
2009-12-23 14:13     ` additions Mark Weber
     [not found] ` <B3C24EA955FF0C4EA14658997CD3E25E2159B6B8@CAHIER.gst.uqam.ca>
2009-12-23 21:04   ` CatLab Urs Schreiber
     [not found] ` <4B3368C1.3000800@bath.ac.uk>
2009-12-24 16:25   ` additions Mike Stay
2009-12-26  0:03     ` additions Toby Bartels
     [not found]   ` <7f854b310912240825s39f195b2x2db16cc8f3a5cde7@mail.gmail.com>
2009-12-25  8:18     ` additions Carsten Führmann
     [not found] ` <4B347567.9070603@bath.ac.uk>
2009-12-29 23:17   ` additions Mike Stay
2009-12-30 21:00     ` additions Greg Meredith
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2009-12-20  1:00 A well kept secret? Larry Harper
2009-12-20 14:38 ` Colin McLarty
2009-12-20 17:47 ` jim stasheff
2009-12-09  7:40 Ronnie Brown
2009-12-14 18:41 ` Andrew Stacey
2009-12-15  5:12   ` John Baez
2009-12-17  5:08   ` Ross Street

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=E1NNRTB-0003eB-9f@mailserv.mta.ca \
    --to=zdiskin@gmail.com \
    --cc=zskoda@gmail.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).