new (?) version of the old nnml problem

new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

Something happened to my Gnus. Or the
remote connection?

Now when I do `gnus-group-get-new-news' Gnus
hangs until I do C-g.

The broken POP processes pile up at
`list-processes'.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

I wrote:

> Something happened to my Gnus. Or the
> remote connection?
>
> Now when I do `gnus-group-get-new-news' Gnus
> hangs until I do C-g.
>
> The broken POP processes pile up at
> `list-processes'.

Because NNTP works so good and fast, can't
I get my mails thru that as well? :)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

I wrote:

>> Something happened to my Gnus. Or the remote
>> connection? Now when I do
>> `gnus-group-get-new-news' Gnus hangs until
>> I do C-g. The broken POP processes pile up
>> at `list-processes'.
>
> Because NNTP works so good and fast, can't
> I get my mails thru that as well? :)

nnml seems totally messed up :(

I went into the server buffer and closed it,
but when I go back to the group buffer to get
NNTP, same thing! And then I go back to the
server buffer and nnml is open once again?

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

> I wrote:
>
>>> Something happened to my Gnus. Or the remote
>>> connection? Now when I do
>>> `gnus-group-get-new-news' Gnus hangs until
>>> I do C-g. The broken POP processes pile up
>>> at `list-processes'.
>>
>> Because NNTP works so good and fast, can't
>> I get my mails thru that as well? :)
>
> nnml seems totally messed up :(
>
> I went into the server buffer and closed it,
> but when I go back to the group buffer to get
> NNTP, same thing! And then I go back to the
> server buffer and nnml is open once again?

I think if you hit "D" for "deny" the server will stay closed.

But it's a POP mail source that's causing the problem, not the nnml
store, right? I'm not sure that denying the server would prevent Gnus
from trying to retrieve the mail source.

Maybe confirm that POP access works from the command line first?

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/201818/checking-pop-mail-account-using-terminal

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

I'm gonna use this thread to dump everything
related to this issue. At least then I have it
all in one place.

I've had the issue for several years off and
on, on several computers even with slightly
different OSs (Debian and Raspbian) so it is
starting to get embarrassing.

    Mail source (pop :user XYZ :password ABC
    :server pop.zoho.com :port 995 :stream ssl)
    failed: (error USER XYZ not valid)

and

    gnutls.c: [0] (Emacs) fatal error: The TLS
    connection was non-properly terminated.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> I think if you hit "D" for "deny" the server
> will stay closed.
>
> But it's a POP mail source that's causing the
> problem, not the nnml store, right? I'm not
> sure that denying the server would prevent
> Gnus from trying to retrieve the mail source.

No, you are right, "D" is what I wanted.

> Maybe confirm that POP access works from the
> command line first?
>
> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/201818/checking-pop-mail-account-using-terminal

OK, BRB.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> I think if you hit "D" for "deny" the server
> will stay closed.
>
> But it's a POP mail source that's causing the
> problem, not the nnml store, right? I'm not
> sure that denying the server would prevent
> Gnus from trying to retrieve the mail source.

No, you are right, "D" is what I wanted.
But then I can't send this! Even tho it
isn't mail?

    (error "Can't open server nnml:") in gnus-inews-do-gcc

> Maybe confirm that POP access works from the
> command line first?
>
> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/201818/checking-pop-mail-account-using-terminal

OK, BRB.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> Maybe confirm that POP access works from the
> command line first?
>
> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/201818/checking-pop-mail-account-using-terminal

Error according to socat, works with openssl.

test-zoho () {
    local server=pop.zoho.com
    local port=995
    socat - OPENSSL:${server}:${port}
    echo "socat done"
    openssl s_client -quiet -connect ${server}:${port}
    echo "openssl done"
}

$ test-zoho

    2017/10/20 17:54:09 socat[29967] E SSL_connect(): error:14090086:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_SERVER_CERTIFICATE:certificate verify failed
    socat done
    depth=2 C = US, O = "thawte, Inc.", OU = Certification Services Division, OU = "(c) 2006 thawte, Inc. - For authorized use only", CN = thawte Primary Root CA
    verify return:1
    depth=1 C = US, O = "thawte, Inc.", OU = Domain Validated SSL, CN = thawte DV SSL CA - G2
    verify return:1
    depth=0 CN = *.zoho.com
    verify return:1
    +OK POP3 mx.zohomail.com v1.0 server ready <10427.1508514850321@mx.zohomail.com>
    user XYZ
    +OK
    pass ABC
    +OK
    quit
    +OK mx.zohomail.com Service closing transmission channel
    openssl done

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>> I think if you hit "D" for "deny" the server
>> will stay closed.
>>
>> But it's a POP mail source that's causing the
>> problem, not the nnml store, right? I'm not
>> sure that denying the server would prevent
>> Gnus from trying to retrieve the mail source.
>
> No, you are right, "D" is what I wanted.
> But then I can't send this! Even tho it
> isn't mail?
>
>     (error "Can't open server nnml:") in gnus-inews-do-gcc

It sends okay, the only error is that you have Gnus set up to archive
your messages in the nnml server, so the archiving failed.

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>> Maybe confirm that POP access works from the
>> command line first?
>>
>> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/201818/checking-pop-mail-account-using-terminal
>
> Error according to socat, works with openssl.
>
> test-zoho () {
>     local server=pop.zoho.com
>     local port=995
>     socat - OPENSSL:${server}:${port}
>     echo "socat done"
>     openssl s_client -quiet -connect ${server}:${port}
>     echo "openssl done"
> }
>
> $ test-zoho
>
>     2017/10/20 17:54:09 socat[29967] E SSL_connect(): error:14090086:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_SERVER_CERTIFICATE:certificate verify failed
>     socat done
>     depth=2 C = US, O = "thawte, Inc.", OU = Certification Services Division, OU = "(c) 2006 thawte, Inc. - For authorized use only", CN = thawte Primary Root CA
>     verify return:1
>     depth=1 C = US, O = "thawte, Inc.", OU = Domain Validated SSL, CN = thawte DV SSL CA - G2
>     verify return:1
>     depth=0 CN = *.zoho.com
>     verify return:1
>     +OK POP3 mx.zohomail.com v1.0 server ready <10427.1508514850321@mx.zohomail.com>
>     user XYZ
>     +OK
>     pass ABC
>     +OK
>     quit
>     +OK mx.zohomail.com Service closing transmission channel
>     openssl done

Unfortunately I don't know too much about tls, and will be of limited
help here, but my guess is there's something slightly wrong with the
pop.zoho.com certificate, something that openssl is letting slide, but
socat and gnutls aren't happy about.

I really don't know much about these issues, though, so hopefully
someone else will jump in...

Eric

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

>> No, you are right, "D" is what I wanted.
>> But then I can't send this! Even tho it
>> isn't mail? (error "Can't open server nnml:")
>> in gnus-inews-do-gcc
>
> It sends okay, the only error is that you
> have Gnus set up to archive your messages in
> the nnml server, so the archiving failed.

You are right:

    (setq gnus-message-archive-group "nnml:mail.sent")

Is that a bad idea?

I suppose the optimal would be to have one
-sent group for each group, i.e.
gmane.emacs.gnus.general-sent

Overkill for my purposes tho but I suppose it
would resolve this particular protocol
mismatch issue.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> my guess is there's something slightly wrong
> with the pop.zoho.com certificate, something
> that openssl is letting slide, but socat and
> gnutls aren't happy about.

What exactly is openssl? Can I use that instead
of gnutls?

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>>> No, you are right, "D" is what I wanted.
>>> But then I can't send this! Even tho it
>>> isn't mail? (error "Can't open server nnml:")
>>> in gnus-inews-do-gcc
>>
>> It sends okay, the only error is that you
>> have Gnus set up to archive your messages in
>> the nnml server, so the archiving failed.
>
> You are right:
>
>     (setq gnus-message-archive-group "nnml:mail.sent")
>
> Is that a bad idea?

Not at all -- you've got to put them somewhere. And in fact an nnml
server will always be available (barring some filesystem problems). It's
only because you've explicitly shut it off that it's rejecting messages,
and like I said that might not even solve your real problem, which is
with the POP mail source, not the nnml store.

> I suppose the optimal would be to have one
> -sent group for each group, i.e.
> gmane.emacs.gnus.general-sent

But those sent messages still need to be stored locally, somehow -- you
can't actually post your sent messages to gmane. IMAP is the only server
where the archiving is also remote. nnml or nnmaildir are perfectly good
choices for local storage.

> Overkill for my purposes tho but I suppose it
> would resolve this particular protocol
> mismatch issue.

No it wouldn't, see above.

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>> my guess is there's something slightly wrong
>> with the pop.zoho.com certificate, something
>> that openssl is letting slide, but socat and
>> gnutls aren't happy about.
>
> What exactly is openssl? Can I use that instead
> of gnutls?

My understanding (and again, I know very little about these things) is
that the two programs are roughly equivalent: they handle creating and
checking TLS certificates, and creating and handling TLS-encrypted
connections to remote servers.

I actually was just assuming you are using gnutls, you can probably
check the libgnutls-version. You can also try setting gnutls-log-level
to 3 or 4 and fetching mail, and see if anything interesting pops up in
*Messages*.

The bad news is that I tried this:

gnutls-cli --port 995 pop.zoho.com

And it connected just fine. You might try that, and going through with
the login procedure.

Otherwise, I might be fresh out of helpful!

Eric

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> the two programs are roughly equivalent: they
> handle creating and checking TLS
> certificates, and creating and handling
> TLS-encrypted connections to remote servers.

OK, then how do I specify openssl should be
used instead? Worth a shot... A search with
`apropos-value' and "gnutls" reveals

    starttls-gnutls-program
       "gnutls-cli"

    tls-program
       ("gnutls-cli --insecure -p %p %h" "gnutls-cli
       --insecure -p %p %h --protocols ssl3" "openssl
       s_client -connect %h:%p -no_ssl2 -ign_eof")

Neither set by me, but can be incorrect anyway,
of course. Eheh.

> I actually was just assuming you are using
> gnutls, you can probably check the
> libgnutls-version.

If you mean ... then:

    $ gnutls-cli --version
    gnutls-cli 3.3.8

> You can also try setting gnutls-log-level to
> 3 or 4 and fetching mail, and see if anything
> interesting pops up in *Messages*.

This does, over and over again:

    gnutls.c: [3] ASSERT: gnutls_buffers.c:547

    gnutls.c: [3] (Emacs) retry: Resource temporarily unavailable, try again.
    gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) non-fatal error: Resource temporarily unavailable, try again.
    gnutls.c: [3] ASSERT: gnutls_buffers.c:1104

> The bad news is that I tried this:
>
> gnutls-cli --port 995 pop.zoho.com
>
> And it connected just fine. You might try
> that, and going through with the
> login procedure.

Login procedure works, the rest seems fine (?).

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>> the two programs are roughly equivalent: they
>> handle creating and checking TLS
>> certificates, and creating and handling
>> TLS-encrypted connections to remote servers.
>
> OK, then how do I specify openssl should be
> used instead? Worth a shot... A search with
> `apropos-value' and "gnutls" reveals

apropos-value is nice! I don't think I've ever used that.

>     starttls-gnutls-program
>        "gnutls-cli"
>
>     tls-program
>        ("gnutls-cli --insecure -p %p %h" "gnutls-cli
>        --insecure -p %p %h --protocols ssl3" "openssl
>        s_client -connect %h:%p -no_ssl2 -ign_eof")

Maybe change this variable so that only the "openssl" string is in
there?

[...]

> If you mean ... then:
>
>     $ gnutls-cli --version
>     gnutls-cli 3.3.8

I meant that if the variable libgnutls-version was non-nil, it probably
meant you were using gnutls. But the variables you found above are more
relevant.

>> You can also try setting gnutls-log-level to
>> 3 or 4 and fetching mail, and see if anything
>> interesting pops up in *Messages*.
>
> This does, over and over again:
>
>     gnutls.c: [3] ASSERT: gnutls_buffers.c:547
>
>     gnutls.c: [3] (Emacs) retry: Resource temporarily unavailable, try again.
>     gnutls.c: [1] (Emacs) non-fatal error: Resource temporarily unavailable, try again.
>     gnutls.c: [3] ASSERT: gnutls_buffers.c:1104
>
>> The bad news is that I tried this:
>>
>> gnutls-cli --port 995 pop.zoho.com
>>
>> And it connected just fine. You might try
>> that, and going through with the
>> login procedure.
>
> Login procedure works, the rest seems fine (?).

Here's where I bow out! That's the extent of my meager knowledge. On the
plus side, now you have a real error report to take to emacs.devel :)

Eric

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> Here's where I bow out! That's the extent of
> my meager knowledge.

OK, thanks for everything, of course.
I'll refer to this thread with all the data.
Data.....

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> On the plus side, now you have a real error
> report to take to emacs.devel :)

OK, did it. I don't remember how this works -
do you get a number? The subject of the mail
(bug report) is "24.4; Gnus TLS/SSL POP issue"
- I guess it'll end up somewhere.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>> On the plus side, now you have a real error
>> report to take to emacs.devel :)
>
> OK, did it. I don't remember how this works -
> do you get a number? The subject of the mail
> (bug report) is "24.4; Gnus TLS/SSL POP issue"
> - I guess it'll end up somewhere.

Did you `report-emacs-bug'? You should have gotten a response from the
bug tracker, if so, and I don't see any bugs with that subject in the
tracker. Where did you send it?

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> Did you `report-emacs-bug'? You should have
> gotten a response from the bug tracker, if
> so, and I don't see any bugs with that
> subject in the tracker.

I got this. "YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND
YOUR MESSAGE." OK, feels good to know :)

BTW, how do you use the "tracker" you mention?
Is there an Emacs interface to it?

Or is there a gmane group for it?

    This message was created automatically by
    mail delivery system.

    THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY.

    YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE.

    The original message was received at Sun,
    22 Oct 2017 23:34:05 -0700 from
    moasen@zoho.com [moasen@zoho.com]

    ----- The following addresses had fatal
    errors ----- [Status: Error, Address:
    <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>, ResponseCode 421,
    Host not reachable.]

    Message will be retried for 4 more day(s)

    ----- Transcript of session follows -----

    Received:from raspberrypi.zoho.com
    (m77-218-246-4.cust.tele2.se
    [77.218.246.4]) by mx.zohomail.com with
    SMTPS id 1508737688660867.8851471880902;
    Sun, 22 Oct 2017 22:48:08 -0700 (PDT)
    Message-ID:<86a80ixvmy.fsf@zoho.com>
    Date:Mon, 23 Oct 2017 07:48:05 +0200
    From:Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com>
    User-Agent:Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13)
    Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux)
    To:bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject:24.4; Gnus
    TLS/SSL POP issue Content-Type:text/plain

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Adam Sjøgren]

Emanuel writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

>> Did you `report-emacs-bug'? You should have gotten a response from
>> the bug tracker, if so, and I don't see any bugs with that subject in
>> the tracker.

> I got this. "YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND
> YOUR MESSAGE." OK, feels good to know :)

That is something the email server on raspberrypi.zoho.com is telling
you, it seems.

Apparently it is unable to talk to reach the mx of gnu.org:

>     errors ----- [Status: Error, Address: <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>,
>     ResponseCode 421, Host not reachable.]

Until the email is delivered, nothing will be created in the bug
tracker.

You can find the bug tracker here:

 • https://debbugs.gnu.org/

And there is an Emacs-based interface:

 • http://elpa.gnu.org/packages/debbugs.html

(besides the usual email- and web-based interfaces).


  Best regards,

    Adam


-- 
 "Dessutom tror alla ändå att vi ska lägga ner                Adam Sjøgren
  inför varje platta. Så det var lika bra att göra       asjo@koldfront.dk
  slag i saken."

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>> Did you `report-emacs-bug'? You should have
>> gotten a response from the bug tracker, if
>> so, and I don't see any bugs with that
>> subject in the tracker.
>
> I got this. "YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND
> YOUR MESSAGE." OK, feels good to know :)
>
> BTW, how do you use the "tracker" you mention?
> Is there an Emacs interface to it?
>
> Or is there a gmane group for it?

To add to what Adam said, there is also a gmane group: gmane.emacs.bugs.
It's pretty high-traffic, though.

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> To add to what Adam said, there is also
> a gmane group: gmane.emacs.bugs. It's pretty
> high-traffic, though.

... is that good or bad? :S

Anyway got the confirmation mail - bug#28971,
subject "24.4; Gnus TLS/SSL POP issue".

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

Adam Sjøgren wrote:

>> I got this. "YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR
>> MESSAGE." OK, feels good to know :)
>
> That is something the email server on
> raspberrypi.zoho.com is telling you, it seems.
>
> Apparently it is unable to talk to reach the
> mx of gnu.org:
>
>>     errors ----- [Status: Error, Address:
>>     <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>, ResponseCode
>>     421, Host not reachable.]
>
> Until the email is delivered, nothing will be
> created in the bug tracker.

It sure won't :) No, I knew that wasn't
something on the GNU side.

> You can find the bug tracker here:
>
>  • https://debbugs.gnu.org/
>
> And there is an Emacs-based interface:
>
>  • http://elpa.gnu.org/packages/debbugs.html

OK, thanks, I got the newsgroup up and there
seems to be lots of activity there.
First I thought I hade discovered a new
playground for my own activity but upon reading
the subjects almost none hade even a slight
bearing to what I myself use and know.
Either the Emacs World is huge, or people, even
Emacs people, have poor taste... :)

About this particular bug, it is a strange
thing it doesn't attract more attention because
it seems to be such a vital flaw. It seems to
be a central problem (nnml? or just TLS/SSL?)
but because of the lack of interest, perhaps it
just appears in combination with certain mail
service providers (e.g., mine, zoho).

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

[...]

> About this particular bug, it is a strange
> thing it doesn't attract more attention because
> it seems to be such a vital flaw. It seems to
> be a central problem (nnml? or just TLS/SSL?)
> but because of the lack of interest, perhaps it
> just appears in combination with certain mail
> service providers (e.g., mine, zoho).

I read your bug report, and to be honest it's a bit hard to figure out
what's going on. The maintainers need to be able to get straight to the
point, and you've got the whole thread in there, with the key error
message buried at the bottom!

If I were you I might follow up with another post, just flagging up the
bit about gnutls-log-level, and the "Resource temporarily unavailable"
error. Just knowing what that actually means would be useful.

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> If I were you I might follow up with another
> post, just flagging up the bit about
> gnutls-log-level, and the "Resource
> temporarily unavailable" error. Just knowing
> what that actually means would be useful.

Perhaps one should check out the gnutls source.

Does this error originate from the Emacs
interface or from one of the bins of the "GNU
TLS library"?

I see it with aptitude on Debian, but have no
recollection of ever installing it - maybe
I didn't. I remember there was a method to find
out, but not what it was.

Anyway it doesn't matter as I'm pretty sure
that's what it is.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>> If I were you I might follow up with another
>> post, just flagging up the bit about
>> gnutls-log-level, and the "Resource
>> temporarily unavailable" error. Just knowing
>> what that actually means would be useful.
>
> Perhaps one should check out the gnutls source.
>
> Does this error originate from the Emacs
> interface or from one of the bins of the "GNU
> TLS library"?
>
> I see it with aptitude on Debian, but have no
> recollection of ever installing it - maybe
> I didn't. I remember there was a method to find
> out, but not what it was.
>
> Anyway it doesn't matter as I'm pretty sure
> that's what it is.

Right, but someone still has to figure out if it's a bug in gnutls, or a
bug in the way Emacs is using it, or some other thing. I just think
you'll get a better reaction to the bug report if you pare it down to
just that paragraph.

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> Right, but someone still has to figure out if
> it's a bug in gnutls, or a bug in the way
> Emacs is using it, or some other thing.
> I just think you'll get a better reaction to
> the bug report if you pare it down to just
> that paragraph.

But why do people who are interested in these
issues don't read gmane.emacs.gnus.general to
begin with?

No, I have several books that explain the
SSL/TLS protocols/procedures, so I think
that'll be step one, step two to see how it is
implemented and where the error message appears
in the source.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>> Right, but someone still has to figure out if
>> it's a bug in gnutls, or a bug in the way
>> Emacs is using it, or some other thing.
>> I just think you'll get a better reaction to
>> the bug report if you pare it down to just
>> that paragraph.
>
> But why do people who are interested in these
> issues don't read gmane.emacs.gnus.general to
> begin with?

Because there are far too many things to fix in Emacs! They're trying to
reduce the flood, not add to it. :)

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 19:17:38 +0200 Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> wrote: 

EB> But why do people who are interested in these
EB> issues don't read gmane.emacs.gnus.general to
EB> begin with?

Some do.

Ted

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Robert Pluim]

Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>> Right, but someone still has to figure out if
>> it's a bug in gnutls, or a bug in the way
>> Emacs is using it, or some other thing.
>> I just think you'll get a better reaction to
>> the bug report if you pare it down to just
>> that paragraph.

I responded to the bug report, but I've seen no response from Emanuel

Robert

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Adam Sjøgren]

Robert writes:

> Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

>> Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

>>> Right, but someone still has to figure out if it's a bug in gnutls,
>>> or a bug in the way Emacs is using it, or some other thing. I just
>>> think you'll get a better reaction to the bug report if you pare it
>>> down to just that paragraph.

> I responded to the bug report, but I've seen no response from Emanuel

It is a strange thing - why would someone file a bug report and not
react to responses?!


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Wandering stars                                             Adam Sjøgren
  For whom it is reserved                                asjo@koldfront.dk
  The blackness of darkness, forever"

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Robert Pluim]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> Robert writes:
>
>> Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:
>
>>> Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>>>> Right, but someone still has to figure out if it's a bug in gnutls,
>>>> or a bug in the way Emacs is using it, or some other thing. I just
>>>> think you'll get a better reaction to the bug report if you pare it
>>>> down to just that paragraph.
>
>> I responded to the bug report, but I've seen no response from Emanuel
>
> It is a strange thing - why would someone file a bug report and not
> react to responses?!

He does have Mail-Copies-To: never set in his headers, so maybe he
hasn't checked the debbugs list

Robert

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

Adam Sjøgren wrote:

> It is a strange thing - why would someone file
> a bug report and not react to responses?!

What do you mean? Here is my reply loud and
clear on gmane.emacs.bugs . From here, you seem
to be but a few circuits from total system
disintegration...

    Robert Pluim wrote:

    } You're using the builtin GNUTLS support.
    } There have been a number of fixes to it over
    } the years, so it could be worth trying
    } emacs-26. If that's not possible, the
    } alternative is to switch to using the
    } external gnutls-cli command instead.
    } Something like
    }
    } (defun gnutls-available-p () nil)

    OK, I'll try both suggestions and get back to
    you on gmane.emacs.gnus.general !

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: new (?) version of the old nnml problem

[Emanuel Berg]

This 

    (defun gnutls-available-p () nil)

doesn't seem to have solved the problem

    Opening TLS connection to `pop.zoho.com'...
    Opening TLS connection with `gnutls-cli --insecure -p 995 pop.zoho.com'...done
    Opening TLS connection to `pop.zoho.com'...done
    Mail source (pop :user ABC :password XYZ :server pop.zoho.com :port 995 :stream ssl) failed: (error USER ABC not valid)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573