disable "You have lines longer than 79 characters. Really post? (y or n) y"

disable "You have lines longer than 79 characters. Really post? (y or n) y"

[Emanuel Berg]

I get this question every second or third mail
I send. URLs are long today. An example from
a gmane.emacs.help thread post I just posted is

https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/10077/how-to-edit-crontab-directly-within-emacs-when-i-already-have-emacs-open

Col 120! So it it by a safe margin (indeed, 41
chars, or >150%) one can say that the 79 char
warning limit is exaggerated...

So how can I disable that question and always
"really post"?

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: disable "You have lines longer than 79 characters. Really post? (y or n) y"

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> writes:

> I get this question every second or third mail
> I send. URLs are long today. An example from
> a gmane.emacs.help thread post I just posted is
>
> https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/10077/how-to-edit-crontab-directly-within-emacs-when-i-already-have-emacs-open
>
> Col 120! So it it by a safe margin (indeed, 41
> chars, or >150%) one can say that the 79 char
> warning limit is exaggerated...
>
> So how can I disable that question and always
> "really post"?

Check the docstring (or Message info manual) for
`message-syntax-checks'.

Re: disable "You have lines longer than 79 characters. Really post? (y or n) y"

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

>> https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/10077/how-to-edit-crontab-directly-within-emacs-when-i-already-have-emacs-open
>
> Check the docstring (or Message info manual)
> for `message-syntax-checks'.

OK, thanks, that should do it. I keep the URL
to test it.

(add-to-list 'message-syntax-checks '(long-lines . disabled))

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: disable "You have lines longer than 79 characters. Really post? (y or n) y"

[Emanuel Berg]

> OK, thanks, that should do it. I keep the URL
> to test it.
>
> (add-to-list 'message-syntax-checks '(long-lines . disabled))

Yes, that worked. Great :)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: disable "You have lines longer than 79 characters. Really post? (y or n) y"

[Christian Barthel]

Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> writes:

> I get this question every second or third mail
> I send. URLs are long today. 

true.

> An example from a gmane.emacs.help thread post 
> I just posted is 
>

Personally, I prefer breaking the URL at the "natural"
line length and use the Gnus "unsplit URL" (W u) to
bring them back in full length and click on it.

The URL would become something like that:

https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/10077/
how-to-edit-crontab-directly-within-emacs-when-
i-already-have-emacs-open

An alternative approach that I do sometimes is to use
my own url shortener service and post that instead.  I
always write the Content-Type, Size and origin below
the URL.

> Col 120! So it it by a safe margin (indeed, 41
> chars, or >150%) one can say that the 79 char
> warning limit is exaggerated...

Out of curiosity, how did you come up with your line
length of being somewhere below 50 chars?

[..]

-- 
Christian Barthel <bch@online.de>

Re: disable "You have lines longer than 79 characters. Really post? (y or n) y"

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Christian Barthel <bch@online.de> writes:

> Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> writes:
>
>> I get this question every second or third mail
>> I send. URLs are long today. 
>
> true.
>
>> An example from a gmane.emacs.help thread post 
>> I just posted is 
>>
>
> Personally, I prefer breaking the URL at the "natural"
> line length and use the Gnus "unsplit URL" (W u) to
> bring them back in full length and click on it.
>
> The URL would become something like that:
>
> https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/10077/how-to-edit-crontab-directly-within-emacs-when-
> i-already-have-emacs-open

Unfortunately, when I hit "W u" and unwrap that URL, it also removes the
button widget from it, so I can no longer reach it with TAB. Does that
happen for everyone else? Seems like a bug.

Re: disable "You have lines longer than 79 characters. Really post? (y or n) y"

[Andreas Schwab]

On Mai 16 2019, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:

> Unfortunately, when I hit "W u" and unwrap that URL, it also removes the
> button widget from it, so I can no longer reach it with TAB. Does that
> happen for everyone else? Seems like a bug.

W b

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."

Re: disable "You have lines longer than 79 characters. Really post? (y or n) y"

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:

> On Mai 16 2019, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, when I hit "W u" and unwrap that URL, it also removes the
>> button widget from it, so I can no longer reach it with TAB. Does that
>> happen for everyone else? Seems like a bug.
>
> W b

Well sure, but if `gnus-treat-buttonize' is non-nil, shouldn't it do
that automatically?

Re: disable "You have lines longer than 79 characters. Really post? (y or n) y"

[Emanuel Berg]

Christian Barthel wrote:

Well, hello there bch :) So it worked out at
last! Great job :)

> Personally, I prefer breaking the URL at the
> "natural" line length and use the Gnus
> "unsplit URL" (W u) to bring them back in
> full length and click on it.

Yeah, but strange as it sounds, not everyone
uses Gnus, and also, that doesn't work on the
web archives which people browse with ordinary
browsers, often not even using a traditional
computer but a smartphone or tablet of
some sort.

> The URL would become something like that:
>
> https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/10077/
> how-to-edit-crontab-directly-within-emacs-when-
> i-already-have-emacs-open
>
> An alternative approach that I do sometimes
> is to use my own url shortener service and
> post that instead. I always write the
> Content-Type, Size and origin below the URL.

Hm, I'm not following 100%... how does that
work/look?

>> Col 120! So it it by a safe margin (indeed,
>> 41 chars, or >150%) one can say that the 79
>> char warning limit is exaggerated...
>
> Out of curiosity, how did you come up with
> your line length of being somewhere below
> 50 chars?

You mean the `fill-column'? It is 47, so good
estimate. So, how did I come up with that?
Well, I use a projector and Emacs in a Linux VT
with the font settings [1] at

FONTFACE="TerminusBold"
FONTSIZE="8x16"
SCREEN_HEIGHT=26
SCREEN_WIDTH=72

Here is a screenshot how it looks [2]

On the projector image on the wall, it
corresponds to a line width of (let me get my
folding rule) ~126cm (or ~49.5 inches) which
I think is just right.

Any questions? :)


[1] https://dataswamp.org/~incal/conf/vt/console-setup
[2] https://dataswamp.org/~incal/figures/gnus/gnus-post.png

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

(where) is ding@gnus.org archived? (was: Re: disable "You have lines longer than 79 characters. Really post? (y or n) y")

[Emanuel Berg]

> Yeah, but strange as it sounds, not everyone
> uses Gnus, and also, that doesn't work on the
> web archives which people browse with
> ordinary browsers, often not even using
> a traditional computer but a smartphone or
> tablet of some sort.

I was going to demonstrate this by providing
a link to the archived message. But (where) is
ding@gnus.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general archived?

In the header, it says

Archived-At: <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/88575>

This I've tried before, and it doesn't seem to
work anywhere, and not here either. [1]

But actually, there is no mention of this
list/NG being archived anywhere, if you
read/look on the usual/probable
places! [2] [3] [4]

Is it actually _not_ archived on the web?


[1] Cannot retrieve URL: 
    http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/88575

    522

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Error 522 Ray ID: 4d80f3d06abd75c8 • 2019-05-16 22:58:16 UTC

    Connection timed out

[2] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/

[3] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/

[4] https://www.gnus.org/resources.html

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: disable "You have lines longer than 79 characters. Really post? (y or n) y"

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> writes:

> Christian Barthel wrote:
>
> Well, hello there bch :) So it worked out at
> last! Great job :)
>
>> Personally, I prefer breaking the URL at the
>> "natural" line length and use the Gnus
>> "unsplit URL" (W u) to bring them back in
>> full length and click on it.
>
> Yeah, but strange as it sounds, not everyone
> uses Gnus, and also, that doesn't work on the
> web archives which people browse with ordinary
> browsers, often not even using a traditional
> computer but a smartphone or tablet of
> some sort.
>
>> The URL would become something like that:
>>
>> https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/10077/
>> how-to-edit-crontab-directly-within-emacs-when-
>> i-already-have-emacs-open
>>
>> An alternative approach that I do sometimes
>> is to use my own url shortener service and
>> post that instead. I always write the
>> Content-Type, Size and origin below the URL.
>
> Hm, I'm not following 100%... how does that
> work/look?
>
>>> Col 120! So it it by a safe margin (indeed,
>>> 41 chars, or >150%) one can say that the 79
>>> char warning limit is exaggerated...
>>
>> Out of curiosity, how did you come up with
>> your line length of being somewhere below
>> 50 chars?
>
> You mean the `fill-column'? It is 47, so good
> estimate. So, how did I come up with that?
> Well, I use a projector and Emacs in a Linux VT
> with the font settings [1] at
>
> FONTFACE="TerminusBold"
> FONTSIZE="8x16"
> SCREEN_HEIGHT=26
> SCREEN_WIDTH=72
>
> Here is a screenshot how it looks [2]
>
> On the projector image on the wall, it
> corresponds to a line width of (let me get my
> folding rule) ~126cm (or ~49.5 inches) which
> I think is just right.
>
> Any questions? :)

Wow, that's your usual interface to Emacs? A projector on the wall? Respect...

Re: disable "You have lines longer than 79 characters. Really post? (y or n) y"

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> Wow, that's your usual interface to Emacs?
> A projector on the wall? Respect...

It is awesome. Good posture. Less eye strain.

Drawback: The resolution! In X, I have 576x416!
But there are much better (and more expensive)
projectors nowadays...

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: disable "You have lines longer than 79 characters. Really post? (y or n) y"

[Christian Barthel]

Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> writes:

> Christian Barthel wrote:
>
> Well, hello there bch :) So it worked out at
> last! Great job :)

Sort of.. I just CC:'ed ding@gnus.org and it looks like
the post finally pops up here.  (I added your mail in
the To: header because I wasn't sure if that would work
or will be rejected).  I guess that I won't be able to
post to other groups where authentication is a required
thing.

> Yeah, but strange as it sounds, not everyone
> uses Gnus, and also, that doesn't work on the
> web archives which people browse with ordinary
> browsers, often not even using a traditional
> computer but a smartphone or tablet of
> some sort.

Yes, that's true.

>> The URL would become something like that:
>>
>> https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/10077/
>> how-to-edit-crontab-directly-within-emacs-when-
>> i-already-have-emacs-open
>>
>> An alternative approach that I do sometimes
>> is to use my own url shortener service and
>> post that instead. I always write the
>> Content-Type, Size and origin below the URL.
>
> Hm, I'm not following 100%... how does that
> work/look?

Something like: https://bit.ly/2VOza3S
(Short-URL to emacs.stackexchange.com, 
Title: How to edit crontab directly within emacs when I 
already have emacs open?, 
Estimated Size: 200k)

The drawback of this is that you have to go through
another service like bit.ly (or create your own) - but
nevertheless, there will be one redirect on the URL
consumer side.

In the case of stack*-.com pages, you can also strip
off the title because the number encodes the article
already.  This would work, too:

https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/10077/ 

Depending on the configuration, website, content
management system etc. other such combinations are
possible.

[..]
> Well, I use a projector and Emacs in a Linux VT
> with the font settings [1] at
>
> FONTFACE="TerminusBold"
> FONTSIZE="8x16"
> SCREEN_HEIGHT=26
> SCREEN_WIDTH=72
>
> Here is a screenshot how it looks [2]
>
> On the projector image on the wall, it
> corresponds to a line width of (let me get my
> folding rule) ~126cm (or ~49.5 inches) which
> I think is just right.
>
> Any questions? :)

Nice setup, indeed. 
-- 
Christian Barthel <bch@online.de>

Re: disable "You have lines longer than 79 characters. Really post? (y or n) y"

[Emanuel Berg]

Christian Barthel wrote:

>> Hm, I'm not following 100%... how does that
>> work/look?
>
> Something like: https://bit.ly/2VOza3S
> (Short-URL to emacs.stackexchange.com, Title:
> How to edit crontab directly within emacs
> when I already have emacs open?, Estimated
> Size: 200k)
>
> The drawback of this is that you have to go
> through another service like bit.ly (or
> create your own) - but nevertheless, there
> will be one redirect on the URL
> consumer side.
>
> In the case of stack*-.com pages, you can
> also strip off the title because the number
> encodes the article already. This would work,
> too:
>
> https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/10077/
>
> Depending on the configuration, website,
> content management system etc. other such
> combinations are possible.

OK, but what is the problem to begin with?

Why is it incorrect or disencouraged to send
URLs which are longer than 79 chars?

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: disable "You have lines longer than 79 characters. Really post? (y or n) y"

[Christian Barthel]

Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> writes:

> OK, but what is the problem to begin with?

Many mailinglists and newsgroups have rules that state that lines
shouldn't be longer than 80 chars or even smaller.  The OpenBSD
mailinglist rule for example, looks like [1]: 

| Plain text, 72 characters per line
|    Many subscribers and developers read their mail on
|    text-based mailers like mail(1), emacs or mutt, and they
|    often find HTML-formatted messages (or lines that stretch
|    beyond 72 characters) unreadable.  

The EmacsWiki [2] states something similar and for written
sentences, there is some argumentation why it's a useful line
length.

But I guess whether this applies to URLs is a different matter
(because you don't read urls like a sentence).  Anyway, I trust
Gnus and stick with that limit :-)

[1] https://www.openbsd.org/mail.html
[2] https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EightyColumnRule
-- 
Christian Barthel <bch@online.de>

Re: disable "You have lines longer than 79 characters. Really post? (y or n) y"

[Emanuel Berg]

Christian Barthel wrote:

>> OK, but what is the problem to begin with?
>
> Many mailinglists and newsgroups have rules
> that state that lines shouldn't be longer
> than 80 chars or even smaller. The OpenBSD
> mailinglist rule for example, looks like [1]:
>
> | Plain text, 72 characters per line Many
> | subscribers and developers read their mail on
> | text-based mailers like mail(1), emacs or
> | mutt, and they often find HTML-formatted
> | messages (or lines that stretch beyond 72
> | characters) unreadable.
>
> The EmacsWiki [2] states something similar
> and for written sentences, there is some
> argumentation why it's a useful line length.

HTML-formatted messages I don't like, but you
can get away with them like this - I think!
I don't remember what exactly do what
anymore :$

;;; HTML and NON-ASCII
(setq gnus-inhibit-images t)
(setq gnus-inhibit-mime-unbuttonizing nil)
(setq mm-discouraged-alternatives '("text/html" "text/richtext"))
(setq mm-text-html-renderer 'w3m)

The second-last line and the last seems to
contradict each other... :)

As for the line length, I think that is some
relic from time passed. I might be wrong tho?

Anyway when I see a mail with to long lines to
the point that it disturbs me, I do
`gnus-article-fill-cited-article'. This ruins
pretty code and ASCII art, so sometimes I have
to go back and forth. For plain text tho it
works well in my experience.

Just some random thoughts :)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal