Re: send from queue

Re: send from queue

[Richard Riley]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 14:44:43 +0100, Richard wrote:
>
>> No it isnt :  I was asking about sending from the Queue summary. The
>> send queue docs refer the reader to Drafts.
>
> I got confused by your long explanations I think. Couldn't your entire
> article be summed up as "I'd like the D s functionality found in drafts
> to work in queue as well"?

Because its not the same thing. Queue is not drafts : clearly there is
some common ground but it isnt clear. A Queue is somewhere you store
done messages to be reviewed/sent later.

I wanted to explain the use case.

regards

r.

Re: send from queue

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:44:29 +0100, Richard wrote:

> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 14:44:43 +0100, Richard wrote:
 
>>> No it isnt :  I was asking about sending from the Queue summary. The
>>> send queue docs refer the reader to Drafts.
 
>> I got confused by your long explanations I think. Couldn't your entire
>> article be summed up as "I'd like the D s functionality found in drafts
>> to work in queue as well"?

> Because its not the same thing.

I am asking you "Couldn't your entire query be summed up as X" and you
answer "Because its not the same thing". Your answer doesn't parse for
me.

What you want isn't to have D s do "Send message" in the queue group?

> Queue is not drafts : clearly there is some common ground but it isnt
> clear. A Queue is somewhere you store done messages to be
> reviewed/sent later.

Sure.

> I wanted to explain the use case.

You just confused me; but that is hopefully just me.


  :-),

   Adam

-- 
 "Här kommer rädslan, gamle vän                               Adam Sjøgren
  När alla fjärilar i magen vaknar upp                   asjo@koldfront.dk
  Viskar välkommen hem"

Re: send from queue

[Eric S Fraga]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:

> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:
>
>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 14:44:43 +0100, Richard wrote:
>>
>>> No it isnt :  I was asking about sending from the Queue summary. The
>>> send queue docs refer the reader to Drafts.
>>
>> I got confused by your long explanations I think. Couldn't your entire
>> article be summed up as "I'd like the D s functionality found in drafts
>> to work in queue as well"?
>
> Because its not the same thing. Queue is not drafts : clearly there is
> some common ground but it isnt clear. A Queue is somewhere you store
> done messages to be reviewed/sent later.

+1

I use queueing to write emails offline daily (e.g. while on the train on
my long commute where I actually do most of my email reading+writing).
I expect to send queued messages out when I connect without checking
(although obviously it's nice to be able to check them if I decide to).
Drafts are very much for *incomplete* emails that I will not send
without reviewing.  I may often have both queued and draft emails after
my train journey.  Very different use cases.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1 + No Gnus v0.11

Re: send from queue

[Richard Riley]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:44:29 +0100, Richard wrote:
>
>> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:
>
>>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 14:44:43 +0100, Richard wrote:
>
>>>> No it isnt :  I was asking about sending from the Queue summary. The
>>>> send queue docs refer the reader to Drafts.
>
>>> I got confused by your long explanations I think. Couldn't your entire
>>> article be summed up as "I'd like the D s functionality found in drafts
>>> to work in queue as well"?
>
>> Because its not the same thing.
>
> I am asking you "Couldn't your entire query be summed up as X" and you
> answer "Because its not the same thing". Your answer doesn't parse for
> me.

It couldnt be summed up as X because it wasnt just X. There was the open
confusion about the differences between drafts and queues too. Like a
lot of gnus the power comes, sometimes, at a cost - its not always as
simple as "X" because of overlap-

I explained the basics and then added on the use case. Here:

,----
| I cant find how to send a single message from the queue without
| editing. I'm guessing its there or should be there. I would like all
| outgoing mail to go without a prompt to the message queue, review the
| queue later and send one by one. Sure I can send them all at once using
| JS too from the group buffer.
`----

>
> What you want isn't to have D s do "Send message" in the queue group?

D s doesnt do that as I explained. When I hit "D" it makes the queued
message as backwards read.

>
>> Queue is not drafts : clearly there is some common ground but it isnt
>> clear. A Queue is somewhere you store done messages to be
>> reviewed/sent later.
>
> Sure.
>
>> I wanted to explain the use case.
>
> You just confused me; but that is hopefully just me.
>
>   :-),
>

I think, hope it is, as Robert understood ;)

Re: send from queue

[Richard Riley]

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:
>
>> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:
>>
>>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 14:44:43 +0100, Richard wrote:
>>>
>>>> No it isnt :  I was asking about sending from the Queue summary. The
>>>> send queue docs refer the reader to Drafts.
>>>
>>> I got confused by your long explanations I think. Couldn't your entire
>>> article be summed up as "I'd like the D s functionality found in drafts
>>> to work in queue as well"?
>>
>> Because its not the same thing. Queue is not drafts : clearly there is
>> some common ground but it isnt clear. A Queue is somewhere you store
>> done messages to be reviewed/sent later.
>
> +1
>
> I use queueing to write emails offline daily (e.g. while on the train on
> my long commute where I actually do most of my email reading+writing).
> I expect to send queued messages out when I connect without checking
> (although obviously it's nice to be able to check them if I decide to).
> Drafts are very much for *incomplete* emails that I will not send
> without reviewing.  I may often have both queued and draft emails after
> my train journey.  Very different use cases.

Phew ;)

Thanks Eric.

Clearly there is overlap.

Out of interest does D s work for you from the queue?

Re: send from queue

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:38:55 +0100, Richard wrote:

>>>> I got confused by your long explanations I think. Couldn't your entire
>>>> article be summed up as "I'd like the D s functionality found in drafts
>>>> to work in queue as well"?
 
>>> Because its not the same thing.
 
>> I am asking you "Couldn't your entire query be summed up as X" and you
>> answer "Because its not the same thing". Your answer doesn't parse for
>> me.

> It couldnt be summed up as X because it wasnt just X. There was the open
> confusion about the differences between drafts and queues too. Like a
> lot of gnus the power comes, sometimes, at a cost - its not always as
> simple as "X" because of overlap-

I'm sorry, I don't follow you at all.

Please read the two first quotes above, and tell me:

Do you really mean to say that you think your answer to my question
above made sense?

I think I was asking a yes/no question.

>> What you want isn't to have D s do "Send message" in the queue group?

> D s doesnt do that as I explained. When I hit "D" it makes the queued
> message as backwards read.

Yes. I understand that is what happens right now. What I am trying to
ask you is: Isn't what you WANT in queue the same functionality AS what
D s does in drafts?

I am not talking about how it CURRENTLY is in queue, I am talking about
how you WOULD LIKE it to work in queue.

Man, my english must be way worse than I thought.


  Best regards,

-- 
 "Här kommer rädslan, gamle vän                               Adam Sjøgren
  När alla fjärilar i magen vaknar upp                   asjo@koldfront.dk
  Viskar välkommen hem"

Re: send from queue

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:40:15 +0100, Richard wrote:

> Out of interest does D s work for you from the queue?

I will throw in the towel now.


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Här kommer rädslan, gamle vän                               Adam Sjøgren
  När alla fjärilar i magen vaknar upp                   asjo@koldfront.dk
  Viskar välkommen hem"

Re: send from queue

[Richard Riley]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:38:55 +0100, Richard wrote:
>
>>>>> I got confused by your long explanations I think. Couldn't your entire
>>>>> article be summed up as "I'd like the D s functionality found in drafts
>>>>> to work in queue as well"?
>
>>>> Because its not the same thing.
>
>>> I am asking you "Couldn't your entire query be summed up as X" and you
>>> answer "Because its not the same thing". Your answer doesn't parse for
>>> me.
>
>> It couldnt be summed up as X because it wasnt just X. There was the open
>> confusion about the differences between drafts and queues too. Like a
>> lot of gnus the power comes, sometimes, at a cost - its not always as
>> simple as "X" because of overlap-
>
> I'm sorry, I don't follow you at all.
>
> Please read the two first quotes above, and tell me:
>
> Do you really mean to say that you think your answer to my question
> above made sense?

Yes. Perfect sense.

>
> I think I was asking a yes/no question.

I'm unsure of how "it couldnt be summed up as X" is unclear. my initial
query was pretty clear. I have replaced it, again, down below in a block
quote.

>
>>> What you want isn't to have D s do "Send message" in the queue group?
>
>> D s doesnt do that as I explained. When I hit "D" it makes the queued
>> message as backwards read.
>
> Yes. I understand that is what happens right now. What I am trying to
> ask you is: Isn't what you WANT in queue the same functionality AS what
> D s does in drafts?

I dont know how many more times I can say that I dont know. Draft send
might be a totally different thing. 

Why even bring drafts into it? I was looking for a way to send a single
message from the queue. Nothing to do with drafts from a user
perspective.

>
> I am not talking about how it CURRENTLY is in queue, I am talking about
> how you WOULD LIKE it to work in queue.

You snipped again. I dont think this is getting anywhere and email has a
tendency to mask any humour/subtleties in tone. I cant make it
clearer than this:-

,----
| I cant find how to send a single message from the queue without
| editing. I'm guessing its there or should be there. I would like all
| outgoing mail to go without a prompt to the message queue, review the
| queue later and send one by one. Sure I can send them all at once using
| JS too from the group buffer.
`----


Since then D s has been mentioned. I hadnt found that myself. And it
doesnt work for me as I have mentioned a few times already.

regards

r.

Re: send from queue

[Richard Riley]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:40:15 +0100, Richard wrote:
>
>> Out of interest does D s work for you from the queue?
>
> I will throw in the towel now.
>
>   Best regards,
>

You are aware that Lars mentioned that D s should provide what I wanted?

Re: send from queue

[Yann Hodique]

>>>>> "Richard" == Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:

> I dont know how many more times I can say that I dont know. Draft send
> might be a totally different thing.

> Why even bring drafts into it? I was looking for a way to send a single
> message from the queue. Nothing to do with drafts from a user
> perspective.

I guess because that's the way it's implemented. If you look carefully,
you should see that your "queue" group is really "nndraft:queue"

Which actually makes sense if you consider a "draft" as being defined
by "something that's still incomplete", with completion being achieved
by sending.
I do agree it's another kind of "draft", but that's why it's a different
group :)

> Since then D s has been mentioned. I hadnt found that myself. And it
> doesnt work for me as I have mentioned a few times already.

"works here".
D s in my queue group does the right thing, sending exactly one message.

Looks like for some reason the `gnus-draft-mode' minor mode is not
activated in your queue (when it should), so that
`gnus-summary-mark-as-read-backward' is not masked. Can you double
check that?

Yann.

--
The singular multiplicity of this universe draws my deepest attention.
It is a thing of ultimate beauty.

  -- The Stolen Journals

Yes/no -> because [Was: send from queue]

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:59:32 +0100, Richard wrote:

>>>>>> I got confused by your long explanations I think. Couldn't your entire
>>>>>> article be summed up as "I'd like the D s functionality found in drafts
>>>>>> to work in queue as well"?

>>>>> Because its not the same thing.

>>>> I am asking you "Couldn't your entire query be summed up as X" and you
>>>> answer "Because its not the same thing". Your answer doesn't parse for
>>>> me.
 
>>> It couldnt be summed up as X because it wasnt just X. There was the open
>>> confusion about the differences between drafts and queues too. Like a
>>> lot of gnus the power comes, sometimes, at a cost - its not always as
>>> simple as "X" because of overlap-
 
>> I'm sorry, I don't follow you at all.
 
>> Please read the two first quotes above, and tell me:
 
>> Do you really mean to say that you think your answer to my question
>> above made sense?

> Yes. Perfect sense.

The FIRST TWO quotes (shown above in this email)?

>> I think I was asking a yes/no question.

> I'm unsure of how "it couldnt be summed up as X" is unclear.

It isn't.

But I asked you to re-read the FIRST TWO quotes. Where you answer a
yes/no question with "Because...".

The "it couldn't be summed up as X" is the FOURTH quote above.


  Best regards,

-- 
 "Här kommer rädslan, gamle vän                               Adam Sjøgren
  När alla fjärilar i magen vaknar upp                   asjo@koldfront.dk
  Viskar välkommen hem"

Sending from queue/drafts [Was: send from queue]

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:59:32 +0100, Richard wrote:

>> Yes. I understand that is what happens right now. What I am trying to
>> ask you is: Isn't what you WANT in queue the same functionality AS what
>> D s does in drafts?

> I dont know how many more times I can say that I dont know. Draft send
> might be a totally different thing. 

Sending a message from one of the groups might be totally different [to
the user] than sending a message from the other?

Really?

> Why even bring drafts into it?

You said that the documentation of queue mentioned looking in the
documentation of drafts.

> I was looking for a way to send a single message from the queue.

Yes.

> Nothing to do with drafts from a user perspective.

Being consistent with another group you might like to send a message
from seems mighty relevant from a user perspective.

>> I am not talking about how it CURRENTLY is in queue, I am talking about
>> how you WOULD LIKE it to work in queue.

> You snipped again.

It is common courtesy to remove the quotes that are not relevant to what
is being discussed anymore.


  Best regards,

-- 
 "Här kommer rädslan, gamle vän                               Adam Sjøgren
  När alla fjärilar i magen vaknar upp                   asjo@koldfront.dk
  Viskar välkommen hem"

Re: send from queue

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:59:32 +0100, Richard wrote:

> I cant make it clearer than this:-

> ,----
> | I cant find how to send a single message from the queue without
> | editing. I'm guessing its there or should be there. I would like all
> | outgoing mail to go without a prompt to the message queue, review the
> | queue later and send one by one. Sure I can send them all at once using
> | JS too from the group buffer.
> `----

This to me is a very convoluted way of saying "In queue I want the same
functionality that D s provides in drafts".

Because your description is very convoluted to me, I was asking you to
confirm that I understood you correctly.

You have consistently avoided saying yes or no.

Which in itself of course is fine, but your answers have consistently
been increasing in confusion level :-)

> Since then D s has been mentioned. I hadnt found that myself. And it
> doesnt work for me as I have mentioned a few times already.

I have noticed that.


  Best regards,

-- 
 "Här kommer rädslan, gamle vän                               Adam Sjøgren
  När alla fjärilar i magen vaknar upp                   asjo@koldfront.dk
  Viskar välkommen hem"

Re: send from queue

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 20:00:36 +0100, Richard wrote:

>>> Out of interest does D s work for you from the queue?

>> I will throw in the towel now.

> You are aware that Lars mentioned that D s should provide what I wanted?

It does so for me.

(I had to look up how to put anything in the queue, but when I did and
entered the group, the menu labeled "Drafts" had "Send selected
message(s) D s" in it, and hitting D s sent the email currently shown
and left the rest untouched.)


  Best regards,

-- 
 "Här kommer rädslan, gamle vän                               Adam Sjøgren
  När alla fjärilar i magen vaknar upp                   asjo@koldfront.dk
  Viskar välkommen hem"

Re: send from queue

[Richard Riley]

Yann Hodique <yann.hodique@gmail.com> writes:

>>>>>> "Richard" == Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:
>
>> I dont know how many more times I can say that I dont know. Draft send
>> might be a totally different thing.
>
>> Why even bring drafts into it? I was looking for a way to send a single
>> message from the queue. Nothing to do with drafts from a user
>> perspective.
>
> I guess because that's the way it's implemented. If you look carefully,
> you should see that your "queue" group is really "nndraft:queue"

Yes, I am aware of that;)

>
> Which actually makes sense if you consider a "draft" as being defined
> by "something that's still incomplete", with completion being achieved
> by sending.

Not really since a draft is generally incomplete in terms of content
whereas a queued item is waiting for permission to be sent.

> I do agree it's another kind of "draft", but that's why it's a different
> group :)

I dont think a queued mail (to be sent) is a draft in the true sense of
what a draft is. Certainly there is no cross over in other mail
clients. A draft is something thats incomplete. There is no cross over
with the "outbox". Note I'm not suggesting anything should necessarily
change - I was just looking for clarification. 

>
>> Since then D s has been mentioned. I hadnt found that myself. And it
>> doesnt work for me as I have mentioned a few times already.
>
> "works here".
> D s in my queue group does the right thing, sending exactly one message.
>
> Looks like for some reason the `gnus-draft-mode' minor mode is not
> activated in your queue (when it should), so that
> `gnus-summary-mark-as-read-backward' is not masked. Can you double
> check that?

That would seem to be the case. I'm looking at this mail now in my queue
and there is no draft mode. I'll do a new build and report back.

Re: send from queue

[Eric S Fraga]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:

> Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>
>> Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:
>>
>>> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 14:44:43 +0100, Richard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No it isnt :  I was asking about sending from the Queue summary. The
>>>>> send queue docs refer the reader to Drafts.
>>>>
>>>> I got confused by your long explanations I think. Couldn't your entire
>>>> article be summed up as "I'd like the D s functionality found in drafts
>>>> to work in queue as well"?
>>>
>>> Because its not the same thing. Queue is not drafts : clearly there is
>>> some common ground but it isnt clear. A Queue is somewhere you store
>>> done messages to be reviewed/sent later.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> I use queueing to write emails offline daily (e.g. while on the train on
>> my long commute where I actually do most of my email reading+writing).
>> I expect to send queued messages out when I connect without checking
>> (although obviously it's nice to be able to check them if I decide to).
>> Drafts are very much for *incomplete* emails that I will not send
>> without reviewing.  I may often have both queued and draft emails after
>> my train journey.  Very different use cases.
>
> Phew ;)
>
> Thanks Eric.
>
> Clearly there is overlap.
>
> Out of interest does D s work for you from the queue?

Never tried it.  I simply use J S to send the whole queue after plugging
in.  I'll try to remember to try this next time...

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1 + No Gnus v0.11

Re: send from queue

[Richard Riley]

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:
>
>> Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>>
>>> Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 14:44:43 +0100, Richard wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> No it isnt :  I was asking about sending from the Queue summary. The
>>>>>> send queue docs refer the reader to Drafts.
>>>>>
>>>>> I got confused by your long explanations I think. Couldn't your entire
>>>>> article be summed up as "I'd like the D s functionality found in drafts
>>>>> to work in queue as well"?
>>>>
>>>> Because its not the same thing. Queue is not drafts : clearly there is
>>>> some common ground but it isnt clear. A Queue is somewhere you store
>>>> done messages to be reviewed/sent later.
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> I use queueing to write emails offline daily (e.g. while on the train on
>>> my long commute where I actually do most of my email reading+writing).
>>> I expect to send queued messages out when I connect without checking
>>> (although obviously it's nice to be able to check them if I decide to).
>>> Drafts are very much for *incomplete* emails that I will not send
>>> without reviewing.  I may often have both queued and draft emails after
>>> my train journey.  Very different use cases.
>>
>> Phew ;)
>>
>> Thanks Eric.
>>
>> Clearly there is overlap.
>>
>> Out of interest does D s work for you from the queue?
>
> Never tried it.  I simply use J S to send the whole queue after plugging
> in.  I'll try to remember to try this next time...

We (Lars!) found the problem : my "group definition" (G E) had changed
somehow. As a result the queue group wasnt correctly registering as a
"draft" group (...) and so the D s didnt work. It does now.