gnus-buffer-live-p?

gnus-buffer-live-p?

[Julien Danjou]

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What's the point of it? It seems to be very old and new code uses
buffer-live-p. I think it predates an arrival of buffer-live-p in a
"recent" Emacs. Can I remove it and replace it with buffer-live-p?

-- 
Julien Danjou
❱ http://julien.danjou.info

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testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility (was: gnus-buffer-live-p?)

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:45:39 +0100 Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> wrote: 

JD> What's the point of it? It seems to be very old and new code uses
JD> buffer-live-p. I think it predates an arrival of buffer-live-p in a
JD> "recent" Emacs. Can I remove it and replace it with buffer-live-p?

I don't know the answer and don't have a usable XEmacs or Emacs 23 setup
to test.  But your question makes me wonder if we should have such a
thing.  I've been planning for *years* to set up a build farm for the
latest Emacs trunk checkout; adding XEmacs and a few other instances
shouldn't be too hard.  For Gnus specifically it would let us find out
very quickly if a checkin breaks compatibility, and we can think of a
way to do "testing" branches to test changes without putting them in the
master branch.

Ted

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:22:28 -0600, Ted wrote:

> I've been planning for *years* to set up a build farm for the latest
> Emacs trunk checkout; adding XEmacs and a few other instances
> shouldn't be too hard.

Mats Lidell has a buildbot that builds XEmacs: http://lidell.nu/xemacs-buildbot/

Maybe you can get some inspiration/tips/crosspollination going :-)


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "I always liked songs with parentheses in the title."        Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[David Engster]

Adam Sjøgren writes:
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:22:28 -0600, Ted wrote:
>
>> I've been planning for *years* to set up a build farm for the latest
>> Emacs trunk checkout; adding XEmacs and a few other instances
>> shouldn't be too hard.
>
> Mats Lidell has a buildbot that builds XEmacs: http://lidell.nu/xemacs-buildbot/
>
> Maybe you can get some inspiration/tips/crosspollination going :-)

I have a buildbot running for CEDET:

http://www.randomsample.de/cedet-buildbot

It wouldn't be hard to add another configuration for Gnus.

-David

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 19:37:38 +0100 David Engster <deng@randomsample.de> wrote: 

DE> Adam Sjøgren writes:
>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:22:28 -0600, Ted wrote:
>> 
>>> I've been planning for *years* to set up a build farm for the latest
>>> Emacs trunk checkout; adding XEmacs and a few other instances
>>> shouldn't be too hard.
>> 
>> Mats Lidell has a buildbot that builds XEmacs: http://lidell.nu/xemacs-buildbot/
>> 
>> Maybe you can get some inspiration/tips/crosspollination going :-)

DE> I have a buildbot running for CEDET:

DE> http://www.randomsample.de/cedet-buildbot

DE> It wouldn't be hard to add another configuration for Gnus.

That would be great, but we want failure reports by e-mail somehow.  And
it would be nice to trigger builds after a check-in, so maybe it could
be connected with the Gnus post-receive hook somehow.  This would be
easiest to set up on git.gnus.org.  What do you think?  Lars?

If you can share the buildbot configuration you use, it would be helpful
so I can set one up for myself regardless.

Thanks
Ted

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[David Engster]

Ted Zlatanov writes:
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 19:37:38 +0100 David Engster <deng@randomsample.de> wrote: 
>
> DE> Adam Sjøgren writes:
>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:22:28 -0600, Ted wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I've been planning for *years* to set up a build farm for the latest
>>>> Emacs trunk checkout; adding XEmacs and a few other instances
>>>> shouldn't be too hard.
>>> 
>>> Mats Lidell has a buildbot that builds XEmacs: http://lidell.nu/xemacs-buildbot/
>>> 
>>> Maybe you can get some inspiration/tips/crosspollination going :-)
>
> DE> I have a buildbot running for CEDET:
>
> DE> http://www.randomsample.de/cedet-buildbot
>
> DE> It wouldn't be hard to add another configuration for Gnus.
>
> That would be great, but we want failure reports by e-mail somehow.  And
> it would be nice to trigger builds after a check-in,

My setup does all of this.

> so maybe it could be connected with the Gnus post-receive hook
> somehow.

Yes, post-receive hook is easiest, but the buildbot can also poll.

> If you can share the buildbot configuration you use, it would be helpful
> so I can set one up for myself regardless.

I'll pack it up and send it to you tomorrow.

-David

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 20:04:04 +0100 David Engster <deng@randomsample.de> wrote: 

DE> Ted Zlatanov writes:
>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 19:37:38 +0100 David Engster <deng@randomsample.de> wrote: 
DE> I have a buildbot running for CEDET:
DE> http://www.randomsample.de/cedet-buildbot
DE> It wouldn't be hard to add another configuration for Gnus.
>> 
>> That would be great, but we want failure reports by e-mail somehow.  And
>> it would be nice to trigger builds after a check-in,

DE> My setup does all of this.

>> so maybe it could be connected with the Gnus post-receive hook
>> somehow.

DE> Yes, post-receive hook is easiest, but the buildbot can also poll.

If you want to set it up to e-mail me and Lars, that would be great.  We
can send to gnus.commits later I guess, but I want to try it out.

>> If you can share the buildbot configuration you use, it would be helpful
>> so I can set one up for myself regardless.

DE> I'll pack it up and send it to you tomorrow.

Wonderful.  Thanks again.

Ted

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[Julien Danjou]

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On Fri, Feb 25 2011, Ted Zlatanov wrote:

> I don't know the answer and don't have a usable XEmacs or Emacs 23 setup
> to test.  But your question makes me wonder if we should have such a
> thing.  I've been planning for *years* to set up a build farm for the
> latest Emacs trunk checkout; adding XEmacs and a few other instances
> shouldn't be too hard.  For Gnus specifically it would let us find out
> very quickly if a checkin breaks compatibility, and we can think of a
> way to do "testing" branches to test changes without putting them in the
> master branch.

I'd be glad. I'm not really familiar nor friendly with Emacs < 24 nor
Emacs, so that would definitively help.

-- 
Julien Danjou
❱ http://julien.danjou.info

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Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> DE> Yes, post-receive hook is easiest, but the buildbot can also poll.
>
> If you want to set it up to e-mail me and Lars, that would be great.  We
> can send to gnus.commits later I guess, but I want to try it out.

Sounds good.  It would be really nice to get a report on build failures
on XEmacs and older Emacs versions automatically.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 13:05:40 +0100, Lars wrote:

> Sounds good.  It would be really nice to get a report on build failures
> on XEmacs and older Emacs versions automatically.

Maybe even start a test-suite? To detect regressions and such
automatically. How does the (e)lisp world usually approach this?

(I've been quite happy/impressed with the testing culture that has
emerged/settled within Perl-circles in the last 10 years or so.)


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "I always liked songs with parentheses in the title."        Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[David Engster]

Adam Sjøgren writes:
> On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 13:05:40 +0100, Lars wrote:
>
>> Sounds good.  It would be really nice to get a report on build failures
>> on XEmacs and older Emacs versions automatically.
>
> Maybe even start a test-suite? To detect regressions and such
> automatically. How does the (e)lisp world usually approach this?

Since you already seem to run Emacs 24, try

(info "ERT")

-David

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 15:51:59 +0100, David wrote:

> Adam Sjøgren writes:

>> Maybe even start a test-suite? To detect regressions and such
>> automatically. How does the (e)lisp world usually approach this?

> Since you already seem to run Emacs 24, try

> (info "ERT")

Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error "Info file ERT does not exist")

This is with Julien Danjou's emacs-snapshot packages. I wonder why
/usr/share/info/emacs-snapshot/ert.gz wasn't picked up...

Oh well, C-u M-x info /usr/share/info/emacs-snapshot/ert.gz did the
trick - looks like just the ticket, nice!


  Best regards,

     Adam

-- 
 "I always liked songs with parentheses in the title."        Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 15:51:59 +0100 David Engster <deng@randomsample.de> wrote: 

DE> Adam Sjøgren writes:
>> On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 13:05:40 +0100, Lars wrote:
>> 
>>> Sounds good.  It would be really nice to get a report on build failures
>>> on XEmacs and older Emacs versions automatically.
>> 
>> Maybe even start a test-suite? To detect regressions and such
>> automatically. How does the (e)lisp world usually approach this?

DE> Since you already seem to run Emacs 24, try

DE> (info "ERT")

Yeah looking at ERT, it seems like the right solution.  Plus it works on
Emacs 23 (AFAICT).  It doesn't have any VCS integration, though, so
something has to wrap it.

Ted

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[David Engster]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes:
> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>
>> DE> Yes, post-receive hook is easiest, but the buildbot can also poll.
>>
>> If you want to set it up to e-mail me and Lars, that would be great.  We
>> can send to gnus.commits later I guess, but I want to try it out.
>
> Sounds good.  It would be really nice to get a report on build failures
> on XEmacs and older Emacs versions automatically.

There's now a buildbot running for Gnus:

http://www.randomsample.de/gnus-buildbot

There are no mail notifications yet, since I first want to make sure it
works.

Now, time to write some tests. :-)

-David

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 08:11:19 +0100 David Engster <deng@randomsample.de> wrote: 

DE> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes:
>> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>> 
DE> Yes, post-receive hook is easiest, but the buildbot can also poll.
>>> 
>>> If you want to set it up to e-mail me and Lars, that would be great.  We
>>> can send to gnus.commits later I guess, but I want to try it out.
>> 
>> Sounds good.  It would be really nice to get a report on build failures
>> on XEmacs and older Emacs versions automatically.

DE> There's now a buildbot running for Gnus:

DE> http://www.randomsample.de/gnus-buildbot

DE> There are no mail notifications yet, since I first want to make sure it
DE> works.

DE> Now, time to write some tests. :-)

Damn it, I am 90% done with mine :)  Can we call yours official and be
done?  Maybe we can put the tests inside the Gnus repo, too?  I think
with ERT we can do pretty well.

Ted

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[David Engster]

Ted Zlatanov writes:
> On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 08:11:19 +0100 David Engster <deng@randomsample.de> wrote: 
>
> DE> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes:
>>> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>>> 
> DE> Yes, post-receive hook is easiest, but the buildbot can also poll.
>>>> 
>>>> If you want to set it up to e-mail me and Lars, that would be great.  We
>>>> can send to gnus.commits later I guess, but I want to try it out.
>>> 
>>> Sounds good.  It would be really nice to get a report on build failures
>>> on XEmacs and older Emacs versions automatically.
>
> DE> There's now a buildbot running for Gnus:
>
> DE> http://www.randomsample.de/gnus-buildbot
>
> DE> There are no mail notifications yet, since I first want to make sure it
> DE> works.
>
> DE> Now, time to write some tests. :-)
>
> Damn it, I am 90% done with mine :) 

It was a quiet sunday, and starting with the CEDET buildbot it was
pretty straightforward. :-)

We can also migrate it to gnus.org, if you want to have it all in one
place, but I also don't have a problem with hosting it.

> Can we call yours official and be done?  Maybe we can put the tests
> inside the Gnus repo, too?

Yes to both. The tests should definitely be in the Gnus repo, preferably
started with a makefile rule. I guess excluding them from the Emacs sync
shouldn't be a problem?

> I think with ERT we can do pretty well.

The important thing is that the tests must be batch-mode compatible with
a proper exit code. Otherwise it gets complicated... I haven't actually
looked into ERT much, but since it has made its way into Emacs proper,
it should be usable. :-)

-David

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 18:37:15 +0100 David Engster <deng@randomsample.de> wrote: 

DE> Ted Zlatanov writes:
>> On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 08:11:19 +0100 David Engster <deng@randomsample.de> wrote: 
DE> http://www.randomsample.de/gnus-buildbot
>> Damn it, I am 90% done with mine :) 

DE> We can also migrate it to gnus.org, if you want to have it all in one
DE> place, but I also don't have a problem with hosting it.

It may be better to move the build master there so e-mails will
originate from the genuine host and get easily delivered to the right
places.  But Lars should decide.

My experience with BuildBot was pretty good, once I figured out that
when it complains on startup that package X (e.g. jinja2) is missing,
you just "apt-get install python-X".

>> Can we call yours official and be done?  Maybe we can put the tests
>> inside the Gnus repo, too?

DE> Yes to both. The tests should definitely be in the Gnus repo, preferably
DE> started with a makefile rule. I guess excluding them from the Emacs sync
DE> shouldn't be a problem?

>> I think with ERT we can do pretty well.

DE> The important thing is that the tests must be batch-mode compatible with
DE> a proper exit code. Otherwise it gets complicated... I haven't actually
DE> looked into ERT much, but since it has made its way into Emacs proper,
DE> it should be usable. :-)

I think the Emacs maintainers would love to have those tests
synchronized within Emacs.  Look at the test/ subdirectory for examples
of how they already do the testing, e.g. for CEDET.  So we can copy
their Makefiles and synchronize just the Gnus tests to work with their
testing structure.

Ted

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 08:11:19 +0100, David wrote:

> There's now a buildbot running for Gnus:

> http://www.randomsample.de/gnus-buildbot

Sweet!

What version of XEmacs is used? Could it run both XEmacs 21.4 and 21.5
(beta)?


  Very cool,

    Adam

-- 
 "I always liked songs with parentheses in the title."        Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[David Engster]

Adam Sjøgren writes:
> On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 08:11:19 +0100, David wrote:
>
>> There's now a buildbot running for Gnus:
>
>> http://www.randomsample.de/gnus-buildbot
>
> Sweet!
>
> What version of XEmacs is used? Could it run both XEmacs 21.4 and 21.5
> (beta)?

It could. Is there a snapshot package for Debian stable?

-David

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:14:55 +0100, David wrote:

> It could. Is there a snapshot package for Debian stable?

Not that I know of.

I am still building a snapshot for unstable¹ - but the packaging is
subpar and bitrotting since I switched to GNU Emacs at home.

If I get really, really bored - and/or the XEmacs guys release 21.5 - I
will try to set up a better snapshot-build-thing, and include stable in
it.


  Best regards,

    Adam

¹ https://xemacs.koldfront.dk/

-- 
 "I always liked songs with parentheses in the title."        Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[David Engster]

Adam Sjøgren writes:
> On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:14:55 +0100, David wrote:
>
>> It could. Is there a snapshot package for Debian stable?
>
> Not that I know of.
>
> I am still building a snapshot for unstable¹ - but the packaging is
> subpar and bitrotting since I switched to GNU Emacs at home.
>
> If I get really, really bored - and/or the XEmacs guys release 21.5 - I
> will try to set up a better snapshot-build-thing, and include stable in
> it.

Well, I just installed the latest beta manually. After I also installed
the packages, it worked (why do I need iswitchb to compile?).

-David

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 21:36:12 +0100, David wrote:

> Well, I just installed the latest beta manually. After I also installed
> the packages, it worked (why do I need iswitchb to compile?).

Super!


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "I always liked songs with parentheses in the title."        Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> DE> http://www.randomsample.de/gnus-buildbot

That's really nice!

But I wonder whether all warnings should be marked as failures, since,
basically, a warning just says "this won't actually work when you try to
run it".

---
In end of data:
gnus-util.el:2030:1:Warning: the function `image-size' is not known to be
    defined.
---

So this function won't work on Emacs 22, for instance.

> DE> We can also migrate it to gnus.org, if you want to have it all in one
> DE> place, but I also don't have a problem with hosting it.
>
> It may be better to move the build master there so e-mails will
> originate from the genuine host and get easily delivered to the right
> places.  But Lars should decide.

I'm all for running it on David's machine.  :-)  Less work for me is less
work for me!  Me me me!

But we could point build.gnus.org to the machine, for instance.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 18:40:25 +0100 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

DE> http://www.randomsample.de/gnus-buildbot

LMI> But I wonder whether all warnings should be marked as failures, since,
LMI> basically, a warning just says "this won't actually work when you try to
LMI> run it".

Yes, definitely.

LMI> But we could point build.gnus.org to the machine, for instance.

Also a good idea.

Ted

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[David Engster]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes:
> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>
>> DE> http://www.randomsample.de/gnus-buildbot
>
> That's really nice!
>
> But I wonder whether all warnings should be marked as failures, since,
> basically, a warning just says "this won't actually work when you try to
> run it".

Huh? When did you run 'make warn' the last time? ;-)

Anyway, I compiled with byte-compile-error-on-warn, and imagine my
astonishment when 'make' threw all kinds of errors in my face, but
happily went on and returned exit code 0 in the end. So I had to go to
the 6th circle and looked into dgnushack.el; I guess we need another
function, like dgnushack-compile-real-seriously-now, which doesn't wrap
byte-compile-file in 'ignore-errors' and actually checks if it returns
'nil'. :-)

But before enabling error-on-warn, there's actually a bunch of warnings
in the various builds which should be fixed first.

-David

Re: testing Gnus and Emacs/XEmacs compatibility

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

David Engster <deng@randomsample.de> writes:

> I guess we need another function, like
> dgnushack-compile-real-seriously-now, which doesn't wrap
> byte-compile-file in 'ignore-errors' and actually checks if it returns
> 'nil'. :-)

Yup.  :-)

> But before enabling error-on-warn, there's actually a bunch of warnings
> in the various builds which should be fixed first.

Yeah, it doesn't make sense to switch that on before we've fixed all the
compilation warnings.  I'll have a peek at the logs and start fixing
things up.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen