gnus forgets new mail

gnus forgets new mail

[Norman Walsh]

I had the following frightening experience today. I've duplicated it
using gnus built from CVS as of this morning.

New mail arrives and gets filtered into folders:

...
  [ Stuff to Read -- 233 ]
       3, 369: nnml:misc                               
*      0,  16: nnml:misc.webguy                        
      39,  81: nnml:misc.spam                          
...

If I quit gnus, close emacs, etc. and come back later, when I start
gnus again, all the new messages in 'misc' disappear.

...
  [ Stuff to Read -- 230 ]
*      0, 369: nnml:misc                               
*      0,  16: nnml:misc.webguy                        
      39,  81: nnml:misc.spam                          
...

AFAICS, this only happens in the misc folder. If I enter the folder
with C-u space, I can see the messages, which look like they've
already been read, sitting in the folder.

Now, I don't quit gnus very often so I doubt I've missed (much) mail,
but that also means I don't know how long this has been going on.

Help!?

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

-- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> | Some people will never learn anything,
http://nwalsh.com/            | for this reason, because they
                              | understand everything too soon.--Pope

Re: gnus forgets new mail

[Kai Großjohann]

Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> writes:

> AFAICS, this only happens in the misc folder. If I enter the folder
> with C-u space, I can see the messages, which look like they've
> already been read, sitting in the folder.

Do you use scoring on the folder, perhaps inadvertently?  There is
some command which allows you to say "tell me what is the score of
this message and where does the score come from".  `V t', perhaps?

Also, it could be that you've read these messages in another group
(where they got due to crossposting).  There is also an option that
says to mark crossposted "copies" as read.

kai
-- 
Silence is foo!

Re: gnus forgets new mail

[Norman Walsh]

/ Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) was heard to say:
| Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> writes:
|
|> AFAICS, this only happens in the misc folder. If I enter the folder
|> with C-u space, I can see the messages, which look like they've
|> already been read, sitting in the folder.
|
| Do you use scoring on the folder, perhaps inadvertently?  There is
| some command which allows you to say "tell me what is the score of
| this message and where does the score come from".  `V t', perhaps?

Nope. `V t' says "no score rules apply" to all the messages in question.

| Also, it could be that you've read these messages in another group
| (where they got due to crossposting).  There is also an option that
| says to mark crossposted "copies" as read.

Right. That's a feature. :-) In my case, if I do a 'g', I see that new
mail has arrived. If I then immediately quit and restart (without
reading any mail), the new mail becomes old (and read).

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

-- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> | A life, admirable at first sight, may
http://nwalsh.com/            | have cost so much in imposed
                              | liabilities, chores and self-abasement,
                              | that, brilliant though it appears, it
                              | cannot be considered other than a
                              | failure. Another, which seems to have
                              | misfired, is in reality a triumphant
                              | success, because it has cost so
                              | little.--Henry De Montherlant

Re: gnus forgets new mail

[Kai Großjohann]

Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> writes:

> Right. That's a feature. :-) In my case, if I do a 'g', I see that new
> mail has arrived. If I then immediately quit and restart (without
> reading any mail), the new mail becomes old (and read).

Hm.  Ah.  Hm.  Why could it be?

Yes.  Please have a look at the newsgroup data (type `G E' (not `G
e')).  Also have a look at the active file, and at the overview file
(if there is one).

I'm guessing that Gnus thinks articles up to N are read, but the new
articles get numbers less than N.

This can happen, for example, if you use nnmh and allow it to delete
the last message in a group.

kai
-- 
Silence is foo!

Re: gnus forgets new mail

[Norman Walsh]

/ Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) was heard to say:
| Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> writes:
|
|> Right. That's a feature. :-) In my case, if I do a 'g', I see that new
|> mail has arrived. If I then immediately quit and restart (without
|> reading any mail), the new mail becomes old (and read).
|
| Hm.  Ah.  Hm.  Why could it be?

S'funny, I'd like to know that too :-)

| Yes.  Please have a look at the newsgroup data (type `G E' (not `G
| e')).  Also have a look at the active file, and at the overview file
| (if there is one).

Well, `G E' reports:

;;; Editing the group info for `nnml:misc'.
;; Type `C-c C-c' after you've finished editing.

("nnml:misc" 2
 ((1 . 4669))
 ((seen
   (1 . 3)
   (5 . 6)
   11
   (30 . 31)
   (34 . 35)
   88 98 137
   (168 . 170)
   290
   (313 . 317)
   (404 . 406)
   420
   (481 . 528)
   (530 . 543)
   (545 . 592)
   632 639
   (667 . 669)
   694 727 731 734 744
   (755 . 756)
   (759 . 760)
   775
   (784 . 785)
   (811 . 813)
   823 839 883
   (890 . 891)
   (900 . 902)
   915 920 923 925 932 962 970 973 982 986 1006 1013
   (1019 . 1020)
   (1035 . 1038)
   1040
   (1042 . 1043)
   (1052 . 1053)
   1065 1088 1103 1111 1113 1119 1128 1143
   (1152 . 1153)
   (1169 . 1170)
   1175
   (1185 . 1186)
   1188 1192 1194 1196 1211 1215
   (1219 . 1220)
   (1266 . 1268)
   1298 1313 1315 1325 1334 1339 1348 1363 1375 1377 1383 1411
   (1413 . 1418)
   1428 1434 1438 1456 1465 1474 1483 1503 1541 1553 1556
   (1559 . 1560)
   1564 1570 1576 1593 1600
   (1604 . 1606)
   1612 1620 1624 1629 1634 1638 1645 1656 1672 1683 1695 1724 1729 1734
   (1747 . 1748)
   1758 1760 1764 1766 1783 1789
   (1798 . 1799)
   1804 1848
   (1856 . 1857)
   1860
   (1866 . 1867)
   1872 1875
   (1879 . 1880)
   1886 1890 1892
   (1896 . 1897)
   1946 1996 2000 2030 2032 2037 2083 2105 2110 2117 2201 2204 2234 2301 2316 2318 2326 2333 2344 2388 2426 2437 2460 2502 2508 2514 2520 2571 2645 2653 2681 2700 2777 2798 2824 2833 2835 2885 2894 2924 2937 2976 2991 3049 3053 3059 3135 3137
   (3151 . 3152)
   3154 3182 3365 3411 3448 3515 3518 3551 3571 3604 3937 3978
   (4127 . 4129)
   4134 4214 4216 4273 4300 4323 4342
   (4459 . 4669))
  (forward 625 658 682 710 813 1119 1271
	   (1914 . 1916)
	   2532)
  (save 163
	(165 . 166)
	1084 1806)
  (dormant 34)
  (reply
   (5 . 6)
   10 17 20 27 34 50 62 67 82 90 98 107
   (132 . 133)
   138 143 147
   (153 . 154)
   163 165 182 188 196 222 225
   (255 . 256)
   270 274 281
   (284 . 286)
   301 331
   (336 . 337)
   341
   (354 . 355)
   385
   (392 . 393)
   395 397 400 409 411 434 449 466
   (469 . 470)
   (476 . 477)
   480 482
   (491 . 492)
   499 507
   (512 . 513)
   544 611 613 616 618 620 630 637 641 644 646 650 653 661 681 690 694 703 715 717 719 723 725 729 732 738 742 746 748 750 757 762 765 767 769 776 778 781 788 790 794 797 799 801 805 807 809 813 815 818 820 824 827 831 836 843 849 851 853 855 857 859 861 863 866 868 870 872 875 877 879 881 884 886 888 892 894 896 905 907 909 911 916 918 920 928 933 941 944 953 956 958 960 971 974 977 979 989 991 994 1004 1010 1015 1017 1021 1025 1029 1031 1033 1040 1044 1046 1050 1066 1068 1070 1073 1075 1081 1084 1089 1091 1093 1121 1123 1126 1132 1137 1139 1141 1147 1158 1176 1182 1189 1198 1215 1217 1226 1228 1232 1236 1241
   (1245 . 1246)
   1263 1270 1272 1274 1286 1290 1295 1301 1303 1309 1311 1321 1323 1326 1338 1351 1367
   (1370 . 1371)
   1384 1399 1403 1405 1416
   (1422 . 1423)
   1426 1438 1452 1454 1459 1467 1469 1471 1475 1480 1486
   (1492 . 1493)
   1496 1504 1508 1510
   (1514 . 1515)
   1532
   (1558 . 1559)
   1565 1567 1583 1585 1594 1597 1601 1615 1639 1644 1647 1651 1663 1665 1692
   (1701 . 1702)
   1708 1719 1730 1751 1767
   (1769 . 1770)
   1780 1782 1791 1793
   (1859 . 1860)
   1882 1894
   (1902 . 1903)
   1907 1921 1928 1944 1965
   (2001 . 2002)
   (2038 . 2039)
   2058 2065 2067 2071 2221 2226 2258 2307 2319 2334 2361 2365 2368 2387 2391 2396 2412 2414 2418 2420 2429 2441 2451
   (2456 . 2457)
   2488 2491
   (2494 . 2495)
   2509 2516 2521 2524 2530 2566 2600
   (2604 . 2605)
   2635 2661 2684 2686 2690 2692 2694 2701 2723 2729 2731 2739 2773 2777 2788 2798 2818 2825 2862 2871 2875 2883 2974 3014 3016
   (3020 . 3021)
   3026 3063 3065 3072 3074 3082 3085 3124 3137 3149 3178 3197 3200 3210 3245 3265 3270 3278 3293 3306 3401 3604 4134 4140 4158 4161 4163 4178 4227
   (4237 . 4238)
   (4241 . 4242)
   4247 4253 4257 4260 4295 4301 4307 4320 4330 4338 4384 4389 4391 4398 4407 4409
   (4456 . 4457)
   4465 4470 4472 4475 4477 4480 4487 4489 4495 4497 4501 4553 4599 4622 4638 4643)
  (tick
   (1 . 3)
   (5 . 6)
   11
   (30 . 31)
   35 88 98 137
   (168 . 170)
   290
   (313 . 317)
   (404 . 406)
   420
   (481 . 528)
   (530 . 543)
   (545 . 592)
   632 639
   (667 . 669)
   694 727 731 734 744
   (755 . 756)
   (759 . 760)
   775
   (784 . 785)
   (811 . 813)
   823 839 883
   (890 . 891)
   (900 . 902)
   915 920 923 925 932 962 970 973 982 986 1006 1013
   (1019 . 1020)
   (1035 . 1038)
   1040
   (1042 . 1043)
   (1052 . 1053)
   1065 1088 1103 1111 1113 1119 1128 1143
   (1152 . 1153)
   (1169 . 1170)
   1175
   (1185 . 1186)
   1188 1192 1194 1196 1211 1215
   (1219 . 1220)
   (1266 . 1268)
   1298 1313 1315 1325 1334 1339 1348 1363 1375 1377 1383 1411
   (1413 . 1418)
   1428 1434 1438 1456 1465 1474 1483 1503 1541 1553 1556
   (1559 . 1560)
   1564 1570 1576 1593 1600
   (1604 . 1606)
   1612 1620 1624 1629 1634 1638 1645 1656 1672 1683 1695 1724 1729 1734
   (1747 . 1748)
   1758 1760 1764 1766 1783 1789
   (1798 . 1799)
   1804 1848
   (1856 . 1857)
   1860
   (1866 . 1867)
   1872 1875
   (1879 . 1880)
   1886 1890 1892
   (1896 . 1897)
   1946 1996 2000 2030 2032 2037 2083 2105 2110 2117 2201 2204 2234 2301 2316 2318 2326 2333 2344 2388 2426 2437 2460 2502 2508 2514 2520 2571 2645 2653 2681 2700 2777 2798 2824 2833 2835 2885 2894 2924 2937 2976 2991 3049 3053 3059 3135 3137
   (3151 . 3152)
   3154 3182 3365 3411 3448 3515 3518 3551 3571 3604 3937 3978
   (4127 . 4129)
   4134 4214 4216 4273 4300 4323 4342 4482 4494 4500
   (4502 . 4503)
   4533 4649 4663))
 "archive"
 ((timestamp 15556 25673)))

which may be more meaningful to you than to me. The active file says:

mercury:~/Mail$ grep misc active
misc 4669 1 y
misc.spam 2920 1 y
misc.mplayer 126 1 y
misc.linux-magazine 82 1 y
misc.exim 1540 1 y
misc.webguy 157 1 y
misc.nid 147 1 y
misc.xmlhack 97 1 y
mercury:~/Mail$ 

The .overview file is more than 1Mb so I won't attach it hear. The
first message in the .overview is 1; the last is 4669.

| I'm guessing that Gnus thinks articles up to N are read, but the new
| articles get numbers less than N.

Yeah, that's what I thought too. But the active file seems to be
up-to-date.

| This can happen, for example, if you use nnmh and allow it to delete
| the last message in a group.

This is an nnml group.

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

-- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> | Resist the urge to hurry; it will only
http://nwalsh.com/            | slow you down--Bruce Eckel

Re: gnus forgets new mail

[Robert Epprecht]

Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> writes:

> I had the following frightening experience today.

I have seen similar things and reported here, see:
Message-ID: <86lmdctpxz.fsf@i2d.home>
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:47:36 +0100

> If I quit gnus, close emacs, etc. and come back later, when I start
> gnus again, all the new messages in 'misc' disappear.

It is very likely that I also did quit gnus, closed emacs, etc. and came
back later, as you did, when it happened.

Robert Epprecht

Re: gnus forgets new mail

[Kai Großjohann]

Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> writes:

> / Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) was heard to say:
>
> | Yes.  Please have a look at the newsgroup data (type `G E' (not `G
> | e')).  Also have a look at the active file, and at the overview file
> | (if there is one).
>
> Well, `G E' reports:
>
> ;;; Editing the group info for `nnml:misc'.
> ;; Type `C-c C-c' after you've finished editing.
>
> ("nnml:misc" 2
>  ((1 . 4669)) [...]
>
> which may be more meaningful to you than to me. The active file says:

I think it means that 1 through 4669 are marked as read.

> mercury:~/Mail$ grep misc active
> misc 4669 1 y

I think this says that the lowest article number is 1 and the highest
is 4669.

> The .overview file is more than 1Mb so I won't attach it hear. The
> first message in the .overview is 1; the last is 4669.

Good.

> | I'm guessing that Gnus thinks articles up to N are read, but the new
> | articles get numbers less than N.
>
> Yeah, that's what I thought too. But the active file seems to be
> up-to-date.

Hm.  So when a new message is added to the group, it gets number
4670, and is marked as read?

Strange, strange.

kai
-- 
Silence is foo!

Re: gnus forgets new mail

[Norman Walsh]

/ Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) was heard to say:
| Hm.  So when a new message is added to the group, it gets number
| 4670, and is marked as read?
|
| Strange, strange.

It's a little more subtle than that. If I get new mail and one message
gets split into nnml:misc, it'll be article number 4670. And my Group
buffer will show one new message waiting. If I go into the misc
folder, it'll behave exactly as you'd expect.

But, if I quit gnus w/o reading the misc folder then when I restart
gnus, the misc folder will no longer show a new message. At this point,
if I go into the folder, I don't see articled 4670. But if I enter the
group with C-u SPC, then it'll be there, as the last message.

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

-- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> | Time wounds all heels.
http://nwalsh.com/            | 

Re: gnus forgets new mail

[Norman Walsh]

/ Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> was heard to say:
| I had the following frightening experience today. I've duplicated it
| using gnus built from CVS as of this morning.

And as of this morning, it seems no longer to happen. Whew!

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

-- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> | You look wise. Pray correct that
http://nwalsh.com/            | error.--Charles Lamb