plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always

plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always

[Uwe Brauer]

Hello

When using thunderbird text/plain message get always encoded
with format=flowed, which is nice when you read the messages
on small device like the Ipod.

Gnus does not use format=flowed per default and the resulting
messages are not nicely displayed.

I have 
mm-fill-flowed t   
mml-enable-flowed t

But this only works when I use hardlines. But sometimes I
write just one long paragraph so the hardline functionality
does not come into play.

In short: how can I force gnus to use always format=flowed?

Thanks

Uwe Brauer 

Re: plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

> Gnus does not use format=flowed per default and the resulting
> messages are not nicely displayed.
>
> I have 
> mm-fill-flowed t   
> mml-enable-flowed t
>
> But this only works when I use hardlines. But sometimes I
> write just one long paragraph so the hardline functionality
> does not come into play.
>
> In short: how can I force gnus to use always format=flowed?

I think setting `use-hard-newlines' would do the trick?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always

[Uwe Brauer]

>> "Lars" == Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

   > Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
   >> 
   >> In short: how can I force gnus to use always format=flowed?

   > I think setting `use-hard-newlines' would do the trick?

Nope, the only solution is actually un filling the message
which results in  very lines!

Re: plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes: 
 
> Nope, the only solution is actually un filling the message which 
> results in  very lines! 
 
Yes, very lines!   :-)  Let's see.  I've now set 
`use-hard-newlines' here, and then things should (according to the 
documentation) turn into format=flowed.  But will it?

Stay tuned!

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: 
 
> Yes, very lines!   :-)  Let's see.  I've now set 
> `use-hard-newlines' here, and then things should (according to 
> the  documentation) turn into format=flowed.  But will it? 
 
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed 

It diddly doo did it.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always

[Uwe Brauer]

>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: 


   > Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: 

   >> Yes, very lines!  :-) Let's see.  I've now set 
   >> `use-hard-newlines' 

   >> here, and then things should (according to the 
   >> documentation) turn 

   >> into format=flowed.  But will it? 


   > 
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed 

   > It diddly doo did it. 



Hm I used use-hard-newlines for this message, indeed 
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed 

Is added *but* also a lot of (unwanted) newlines, at least 
 for me my 

message looks different from the one you sent me. Either 

use-hard-newlines behaves differently in Xemacs or I have 
 some 

additional setting in my gnus-init file 
.


Uwe 

Re: plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

> Either use-hard-newlines behaves differently in Xemacs or I have some
> additional setting in my gnus-init file .

Try removing your gnus-init settings.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always

[Uwe Brauer]

>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

   > Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
   >> Either use-hard-newlines behaves differently in Xemacs or I have some
   >> additional setting in my gnus-init file .

   > Try removing your gnus-init settings.
Right I had the following setting (from Emacs Wiki)

(defun harden-newlines ()
(interactive)
  (save-excursion
    (goto-char (point-min))
    (while (search-forward "\n" nil t)
      (put-text-property (1- (point)) (point) 'hard t))))

(add-hook 'message-send-hook 'harden-newlines)


Which caused the problem mentioned in my last email.

Re: plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always

[Elias Oltmanns]

(2012-12-31) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:
> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: 
>> Yes, very lines!   :-)  Let's see.  I've now set `use-hard-newlines'
>> here, and then things should (according to the  documentation) turn
>> into format=flowed.  But will it? 
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed 
> 
> It diddly doo did it.

It seems to go wrong, though, if the message contains a single
paragraph.

Regards,

Elias

Re: plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

This is a single paragraph with a long line of text that should be 
long enough here.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> This is a single paragraph with a long line of text that should be 
> long enough here.

Yup.  Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always

[Uwe Brauer]

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>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: 
 
   > Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: 
   >> This is a single paragraph with a long line of text that 
   >> should be long enough here. 
 
   > Yup.  Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed 

I think one problem is when text is pasted into a message with hardlines
on. Then unwanted newline can be created. Unfortunately as far as I
know, there is now end of line indicator, or hardline indicator, which
would warn you.

See also:  
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GnusFormatFlowed

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use-hard-newlines bizarre (was: plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always)

[Uwe Brauer]

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>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: 
 
   > Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: 
   >> This is a single paragraph with a long line of text that 
   >> should be long enough here. 
 
   > Yup.  Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed 
 
I have the following in my setting 
 
(add-hook 'message-setup-hook 'my-use-hard-newlines) (defun 
my-use-hard-newlines () 
  (interactive) (use-hard-newlines) (describe-variable 
  use-hard-newlines)) 


Now when I create a new message I am asked make newlines hard.
I say n, but hardlines *is* turned ON, as shown by the describe
variables.

When I bind use-hard-newlines to a key, then the minibuffer correctly
informs me whether hardlines are on or not, so calling the function
interactively is ok, putting it in a hook is not. 

Any idea of this bizarre behaviour?

Uwe Brauer 

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Re: plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always

[Greg Troxel]

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Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

> See also:  http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GnusFormatFlowed

I find this wiki page hard to follow:

  The take on 'older' vs 'graphical' seems to lack the proper standards
  perspective (and probably should mention the non-compliant non-flowed
  issue).

  The "physical" vs "logical" line is an odd way to put it;
  format=flowed is about giving the receiving MUA permission to reflow
  paragraphs, while still sending mail that complies with line length
  norms.

  It says that gnus doesn't really do things, and then sort of that it
  does, and I ended up not knowing what to expect.

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Make newlines between paragraphs hard???? (was: plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always)

[Uwe Brauer]

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>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: 


    
> This is a single paragraph with a long line of text that should be long enough here.
What do you use? 
 
  

Make newlines between paragraphs hard: yes or no. 


If I use yes than, quoted lines look (in my Ipod) as 


> This is a single paragraph with a long line > of text that 
> should be long enough here. 


Instead of 

> This is a single paragraph with a long line of text 
> that should be long enough here.

I am really not sure what is best, shall I unfill the message before
using hardlines

Like 
(defun unfill-region (beg end)
      (interactive "r")
      (filladapt-mode nil)
      (let ((fill-column (point-max)))
    (fill-region beg end nil)
    (filladapt-mode nil)))


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Re: plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always

[Uwe Brauer]

>> "Greg" == Greg Troxel <gdt@work.lexort.com> writes:

   > Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

   >> See also:  http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GnusFormatFlowed

   > I find this wiki page hard to follow:

   >   The take on 'older' vs 'graphical' seems to lack the proper standards
   >   perspective (and probably should mention the non-compliant non-flowed
   >   issue).

   >   The "physical" vs "logical" line is an odd way to put it;
   >   format=flowed is about giving the receiving MUA permission to reflow
   >   paragraphs, while still sending mail that complies with line length
   >   norms.


I have played around with this for the last days.

    -  if you just send a mail with use-hard-newlines, with or without using
       newlines preceding a paragraph-start line, then everything is
       _fine_ and behaves as expected, I can read that mail say on my
       Ipod just nicely since format=flowed is on.

    -  However, if I *reply* to an email, then this are much more
       complicated, because with use-hard-newlines, I see stuff like


> this blablak text > more text

       so the "best" solution would be to unfill the whole message
       (beyond 70 char) but I don't like this solution neither.


Uwe Brauer 

[SOLVED] (was: plain text, Ipod, format=flowed always)

[Uwe Brauer]

>> "Greg" == Greg Troxel <gdt@work.lexort.com> writes:

   > Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

   >> See also:  http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GnusFormatFlowed

   > I find this wiki page hard to follow:

   >   The take on 'older' vs 'graphical' seems to lack the proper standards
   >   perspective (and probably should mention the non-compliant non-flowed
   >   issue).

With respect to my last message:

The setting which screws up, use-hard-newlines and format=flowed, is 

  (setq sc-citation-leader "     ")

Which is my standard setting as you can see in this message. It does not
go well together with use-hard-newlines in the sense that on a Ipod or
similar device you get 

>  The take on 'older' vs 'graphical' seems to lack the proper >  standards perspective 

Etc.

Setting this variable (or similar ones) to have cited text *not*
indented everything works as expected!

I am not sure whose fault that is or if there is a solution to display
indented quoted text correctly using format=flowed