nnimap shows \Deleted messages

nnimap shows \Deleted messages

[David Edmondson]

Ma Gnus from git on Emacs 23.4.1 on Debian testing.

Sometimes I use another IMAP mail client and delete a message. That mail
client marks the message as \Deleted, but is lazy about expunging. If I
now open this folder using Gnus the \Deleted message is shown to me. I'd
would prefer if messages so marked were not shown (by default?). Is this
possible?

Re: nnimap shows \Deleted messages

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 16:51:32 +0000 David Edmondson <dme@dme.org> wrote: 

DE> Ma Gnus from git on Emacs 23.4.1 on Debian testing.
DE> Sometimes I use another IMAP mail client and delete a message. That mail
DE> client marks the message as \Deleted, but is lazy about expunging. If I
DE> now open this folder using Gnus the \Deleted message is shown to me. I'd
DE> would prefer if messages so marked were not shown (by default?). Is this
DE> possible?

Are you seeing these articles with the E (expire) mark?  If so, you can
customize the group/topic parameters as the manual explains:

http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Group-Parameters.html

Look for the `display' parameter.

You could also score articles with the expire mark down, so they still
show up but at the bottom of your article list (the Summary buffer).

Ted

Re: nnimap shows \Deleted messages

[David Edmondson]

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On Sat, Dec 22 2012, Ted Zlatanov wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 16:51:32 +0000 David Edmondson <dme@dme.org> wrote: 
>
> DE> Ma Gnus from git on Emacs 23.4.1 on Debian testing.
> DE> Sometimes I use another IMAP mail client and delete a message. That mail
> DE> client marks the message as \Deleted, but is lazy about expunging. If I
> DE> now open this folder using Gnus the \Deleted message is shown to me. I'd
> DE> would prefer if messages so marked were not shown (by default?). Is this
> DE> possible?
>
> Are you seeing these articles with the E (expire) mark?

No.

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Re: nnimap shows \Deleted messages

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

David Edmondson <dme@dme.org> writes:

> Sometimes I use another IMAP mail client and delete a message. That mail
> client marks the message as \Deleted, but is lazy about expunging. If I
> now open this folder using Gnus the \Deleted message is shown to me.

Is the article marked as read as well as \Deleted?  I assumed that all
agents would do so, but if not, then Gnus should map \Deleted to read as
well, so that they don't show up (by default)...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: nnimap shows \Deleted messages

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 13:22:46 +0100 Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

LI> David Edmondson <dme@dme.org> writes:
>> Sometimes I use another IMAP mail client and delete a message. That mail
>> client marks the message as \Deleted, but is lazy about expunging. If I
>> now open this folder using Gnus the \Deleted message is shown to me.

LI> Is the article marked as read as well as \Deleted?  I assumed that all
LI> agents would do so, but if not, then Gnus should map \Deleted to read as
LI> well, so that they don't show up (by default)...

Yes, please.

Ted

Re: nnimap shows \Deleted messages

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> LI> Is the article marked as read as well as \Deleted?  I assumed that all
> LI> agents would do so, but if not, then Gnus should map \Deleted to read as
> LI> well, so that they don't show up (by default)...
>
> Yes, please.

I've now done this in Ma Gnus, but I'm not pushing it until I've tested
it a few hours.  Er.  And it's almost party time, so that will be
tomorrow instead.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: nnimap shows \Deleted messages

[David Edmondson]

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On Mon, Dec 31 2012, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>
>> LI> Is the article marked as read as well as \Deleted?  I assumed that all
>> LI> agents would do so, but if not, then Gnus should map \Deleted to read as
>> LI> well, so that they don't show up (by default)...
>>
>> Yes, please.
>
> I've now done this in Ma Gnus, but I'm not pushing it until I've tested
> it a few hours.  Er.  And it's almost party time, so that will be
> tomorrow instead.

Having lived with this change for a while, it feels wrong.

\Deleted articles should be marked as `expired', not simply smashed
together with `read'.

I have \Deleted articles that I haven't read, and that distinction is
currently lost.

I would like to know that I deleted an article, not just assume that I
had read it somewhere else.

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Re: nnimap shows \Deleted messages

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 10:19:51 +0100 David Edmondson <dme@dme.org> wrote: 

DE> Having lived with this change for a while, it feels wrong.

DE> I have \Deleted articles that I haven't read, and that distinction is
DE> currently lost.

DE> I would like to know that I deleted an article, not just assume that I
DE> had read it somewhere else.

I think the majority of users prefer not to have that distinction.
Deleting an article to most people means they don't care about it.  Is
this assumption wrong?  If not, can we accommodate your need without
changing the fundamental behavior?

Ted

Re: nnimap shows \Deleted messages

[David Edmondson]

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On Thu, Jun 06 2013, Ted Zlatanov wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 10:19:51 +0100 David Edmondson <dme@dme.org> wrote: 
>
> DE> Having lived with this change for a while, it feels wrong.
>
> DE> I have \Deleted articles that I haven't read, and that distinction is
> DE> currently lost.
>
> DE> I would like to know that I deleted an article, not just assume that I
> DE> had read it somewhere else.
>
> I think the majority of users prefer not to have that distinction.
> Deleting an article to most people means they don't care about it.  Is
> this assumption wrong?

It seems valid. I would be happy not to see the \Deleted messages at
all, I think.

> If not, can we accommodate your need without changing the fundamental
> behavior?

Currently \Deleted messages appear as read. I'm fine with them appearing
as read, but would like something more as well (expired seems ideal, but
anything that I can use to avoid them showing up in groups where
"(display . all)" is the norm).

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Re: nnimap shows \Deleted messages

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Thu, 06 Jun 2013 15:48:26 +0100 David Edmondson <dme@dme.org> wrote: 

DE> Currently \Deleted messages appear as read. I'm fine with them appearing
DE> as read, but would like something more as well (expired seems ideal, but
DE> anything that I can use to avoid them showing up in groups where
DE> "(display . all)" is the norm).

I don't know the right solution.  Maybe Lars does?

Ted

Re: nnimap shows \Deleted messages

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

David Edmondson <dme@dme.org> writes:

> Currently \Deleted messages appear as read. I'm fine with them appearing
> as read, but would like something more as well (expired seems ideal, but
> anything that I can use to avoid them showing up in groups where
> "(display . all)" is the norm).

The "E" mark is for expirable articles, not expired articles, so that
doesn't seem ideal.

I think "marked as read" is the best we can do.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  No Gnus T-Shirt for sale: http://ingebrigtsen.no/no.php

Re: nnimap shows \Deleted messages

[Andreas Schwab]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> David Edmondson <dme@dme.org> writes:
>
>> Currently \Deleted messages appear as read. I'm fine with them appearing
>> as read, but would like something more as well (expired seems ideal, but
>> anything that I can use to avoid them showing up in groups where
>> "(display . all)" is the norm).
>
> The "E" mark is for expirable articles, not expired articles, so that
> doesn't seem ideal.

\Deleted messages are expirable in some sense, they are expired by
EXPUNGE.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Re: nnimap shows \Deleted messages

[David Edmondson]

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On Thu, Aug 01 2013, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> David Edmondson <dme@dme.org> writes:
>
>> Currently \Deleted messages appear as read. I'm fine with them appearing
>> as read, but would like something more as well (expired seems ideal, but
>> anything that I can use to avoid them showing up in groups where
>> "(display . all)" is the norm).
>
> The "E" mark is for expirable articles, not expired articles, so that
> doesn't seem ideal.
>
> I think "marked as read" is the best we can do.

This annoyed me again, so I looked more. `nnimap-update-info' is not
easy to follow!

This change gets me to where I want to be:

diff --git a/lisp/nnimap.el b/lisp/nnimap.el
index 016a8a2..8661fff 100644
--- a/lisp/nnimap.el
+++ b/lisp/nnimap.el
@@ -154,7 +154,7 @@ textual parts.")
   '((read "\\Seen" %Seen)
     (tick "\\Flagged" %Flagged)
     (reply "\\Answered" %Answered)
-    (expire "gnus-expire")
+    (expire "gnus-expire" %Deleted)
     (dormant "gnus-dormant")
     (score "gnus-score")
     (save "gnus-save")

Summary: deleted articles are give the "expire" mark. From there I can
do what I like on that basis.

Conveniently, it's a data-only change, so it's easy for me to make in my
.gnus.el.

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Re: nnimap shows \Deleted messages

[David Edmondson]

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[ /me comes up for air... ]

On Tue, Dec 25 2012, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> David Edmondson <dme@dme.org> writes:
>> Sometimes I use another IMAP mail client and delete a message. That mail
>> client marks the message as \Deleted, but is lazy about expunging. If I
>> now open this folder using Gnus the \Deleted message is shown to me.
>
> Is the article marked as read as well as \Deleted?  I assumed that all
> agents would do so, but if not, then Gnus should map \Deleted to read as
> well, so that they don't show up (by default)...

In general, yes.

But I have '(display . all)' as a parameter for this group, so it's
mostly irrelevant.

Did the change to map \Deleted to read ever get pushed? I don't see
anything like that in the code (but it's complicated!).

Could we perhaps choose how \Deleted is mapped? I'd probably map it to
expirable...

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