gnus-message-archive-group not producing a Gcc header

gnus-message-archive-group not producing a Gcc header

[Dan Christensen]

I have gnus-message-archive-method set to nil and
gnus-message-archive-group set to "nnimap+rocky:Sent", but I don't get
any Gcc header on my outgoing messages.

Until the last pull I used gnus-outgoing-message-group for this purpose
and it worked fine, but now it's obsolete.  Any ideas?

Dan

Re: gnus-message-archive-group not producing a Gcc header

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Dan Christensen <jdc@uwo.ca> writes:

> I have gnus-message-archive-method set to nil and
> gnus-message-archive-group set to "nnimap+rocky:Sent", but I don't get
> any Gcc header on my outgoing messages.

And that used to work?  Julien, could you take a look at this?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: gnus-message-archive-group not producing a Gcc header

[Julien Danjou]

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On Mon, Dec 06 2010, Dan Christensen wrote:

> I have gnus-message-archive-method set to nil and
> gnus-message-archive-group set to "nnimap+rocky:Sent", but I don't get
> any Gcc header on my outgoing messages.
>
> Until the last pull I used gnus-outgoing-message-group for this purpose
> and it worked fine, but now it's obsolete.  Any ideas?

I've the same setup without any problem.
FYI, the code in `gnus-inews-insert-gcc' does this

         (var (or gnus-outgoing-message-group gnus-message-archive-group))

So both var should work the same.

Could you try to edebug this function and see what it does for you?

-- 
Julien Danjou
// ᐰ <julien@danjou.info>   http://julien.danjou.info

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Re: gnus-message-archive-group not producing a Gcc header

[Dan Christensen]

Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

> On Mon, Dec 06 2010, Dan Christensen wrote:
>
>> I have gnus-message-archive-method set to nil and
>> gnus-message-archive-group set to "nnimap+rocky:Sent", but I don't get
>> any Gcc header on my outgoing messages.
>>
>> Until the last pull I used gnus-outgoing-message-group for this purpose
>> and it worked fine, but now it's obsolete.  Any ideas?
>
> I've the same setup without any problem.
> FYI, the code in `gnus-inews-insert-gcc' does this
>
>          (var (or gnus-outgoing-message-group gnus-message-archive-group))
>
> So both var should work the same.
>
> Could you try to edebug this function and see what it does for you?

That function contains

        ((null gnus-message-archive-method)
            ;; Ignore.
                nil)

so nothing happens.  I don't like having an extra "archive" server
in the server buffer, when I just use an existing server for saving
outgoing messages.

I tried setting gnus-message-archive-method to '("dummy") and things
seem to work, but I think nil should be a valid value when 
gnus-message-archive-group contains a server prefix.  (And this
seems to match the documentation.)

Actually, the documentation is unclear.  I think this paragraph is
left over from when gnus-outgoing-message-group was not obsolete:

    That's the default method of archiving sent messages.  Gnus offers a
    different way for the people who don't like the default method.  In
    that case you should set `gnus-message-archive-group' to `nil'; this
    will disable archiving.

Dan

Re: gnus-message-archive-group not producing a Gcc header

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Dan Christensen <jdc@uwo.ca> writes:

> That function contains
>
>         ((null gnus-message-archive-method)
>             ;; Ignore.
>                 nil)
>
> so nothing happens.  I don't like having an extra "archive" server
> in the server buffer, when I just use an existing server for saving
> outgoing messages.

I'm afraid you'll have to have the archive server set for this to work.

> Actually, the documentation is unclear.  I think this paragraph is
> left over from when gnus-outgoing-message-group was not obsolete:
>
>     That's the default method of archiving sent messages.  Gnus offers a
>     different way for the people who don't like the default method.  In
>     that case you should set `gnus-message-archive-group' to `nil'; this
>     will disable archiving.

I've now removed that paragraph.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: gnus-message-archive-group not producing a Gcc header

[Dan Christensen]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Dan Christensen <jdc@uwo.ca> writes:
>
>> That function contains
>>
>>         ((null gnus-message-archive-method)
>>             ;; Ignore.
>>                 nil)
>>
>> so nothing happens.  I don't like having an extra "archive" server
>> in the server buffer, when I just use an existing server for saving
>> outgoing messages.
>
> I'm afraid you'll have to have the archive server set for this to work.

It seems quite odd to need to specify an archive server that is never
used.  Why not only check that the archive-method is non-nil when and if
it is needed?  Or, why not get rid of the idea of an archive server, and
just require that the archive group be "fully qualified", using an
existing server which is set up like any other server?  Think how much
simpler that node in the manual would be.

But at least I found a different clean workaround:

  (setq message-default-headers "Gcc: nnimap+rocky:Sent")

I'm not sure why there are two independent ways to achieve what I
want.  Should they be merged?  If not, the second way could be
mentioned in the manual as an easy, alternate option.  In fact,
it should probably be mentioned first, since it is a one-liner.

Dan

Re: gnus-message-archive-group not producing a Gcc header

[Dan Christensen]

To elaborate, I think the code should be changed to allow
gnus-message-archive-method to be nil (which should be the default), and
that the manual page Archived Messages should start with something like:

  To have your outgoing messages saved in an archive group, simply set
  the variable gnus-message-archive-group to the full group name,
  including the select method prefix.  For example,

    (setq gnus-message-archive-group "nnimap+imap.example.com:Sent")

And that should be enough for most users, especially those using imap.
Then the manual page could go on to more complicated set-ups:

  If you don't have an existing server that can be used for storing
  outgoing mail, see gnus-message-archive-server below.

  The variable gnus-message-archive group can also be set to:

  a list of strings
      ... [fill in the same list of possibilities]

  If you want to set-up a special server for archiving messages,
  you can use the gnus-message-archive-method variable.
  ... fill in more here ...

But this last part is so complicated.  The default nnfolder "archive"
server created on first use, the gnus-update-message-archive-method
variable, etc.  Maybe it can be avoided?  Maybe just give sample code the
user can use to add an nnfolder server to gnus-secondary-select-methods, 
and then they can use the it in the -archive-group variable?

Dan

Re: gnus-message-archive-group not producing a Gcc header

[Julien Danjou]

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On Fri, Dec 17 2010, Dan Christensen wrote:
> But this last part is so complicated.  The default nnfolder "archive"
> server created on first use, the gnus-update-message-archive-method
> variable, etc.  Maybe it can be avoided?  Maybe just give sample code the
> user can use to add an nnfolder server to gnus-secondary-select-methods, 
> and then they can use the it in the -archive-group variable?

I agree with you. I put that in my TODO and will try to enhance this
part of Gnus in a near future.

-- 
Julien Danjou
❱ http://julien.danjou.info

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Re: gnus-message-archive-group not producing a Gcc header

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Dan Christensen <jdc@uwo.ca> writes:

> It seems quite odd to need to specify an archive server that is never
> used.  Why not only check that the archive-method is non-nil when and if
> it is needed? 

I'm sorry -- that's just the way it's supposed to work.  In the past, at
least, Gnus has been very liable to get very confused if you try to
store messages to backends that "don't exist".  I'd be surprised if that
still wasn't the case.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen