Feature request ? (or help)

Feature request ? (or help)

[Arne Elofsson]

Hi.

I have two problems that I do not know if there is a solution to in
gnus-5.2 if not I think they should by in rgnus. If there is already
these features in sgnus could someone please tell me how to use them.


1. 
When I archive a message that I post (or mail) I would like to have
it marked as read. is this possible without re-hacking
gnus-request-accept-article or something else ?

(I put outgoing messages either in the same group as where I am or in
a specific outgoing group using gnus-message-archive-group)

2. I am using mh and nnml to do my mail splitting (and creation of
.overview and active files). The problem is if I move the last message
in my inbox (say #1120) than the second last message (maybe #1110)
should be my last read message. However gnus think #1119 (I think) is
the last read message. At the moment I use nnmail-keep-last-article t
to avoid moving the last message, however I would really like to be
able to move the last article. One way of dealing with this would be
that when you read the active file and the last message in a group is
higher than the last read the last read should be lowered. (I'm sure
there are better ways such as actually checking which is the last
actual message in a nnml group)


thanxs a lot

arne

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      From: Arne Elofsson         Email: arne@rune.biokemi.su.se
      Tel:+46(0)8-161553   WWW:  http://www.biokemi.su.se/~arne/

Re: Feature request ? (or help)

[Kai Grossjohann]

>>>>> Arne Elofsson writes:

  Arne> 1.  When I archive a message that I post (or mail) I would
  Arne> like to have it marked as read. is this possible without
  Arne> re-hacking gnus-request-accept-article or something else ?

You're not the first who has this question.  I wanted it, too :-)
Lars doesn't really like this, but he said since so many people want
this, he's put it on the red todo list.

  Arne> 2. I am using mh and nnml to do my mail splitting (and
  Arne> creation of .overview and active files). The problem is [...]

Are you saying that you're actually adding files to nnml group
directories outside of Gnus?  You should never, EVER, do that.  For
doing mail splitting outside of Gnus, set nnmail-use-procmail to t and
adjust the nnmail-procmail-* variables (but the suffix can't be "").

You then have to change your mail splitting thingy so that it appends
messages to a file rather than writing new files into a directory.

Also, very fancy mail splitting can be done from within Gnus so this
is not really necessary.

hth,
kai
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Re: Feature request ? (or help)

[Arne Elofsson]

Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@charly.informatik.uni-dortmund.de> writes:

> 

>   Arne> 2. I am using mh and nnml to do my mail splitting (and
>   Arne> creation of .overview and active files). The problem is [...]
> 
> Are you saying that you're actually adding files to nnml group
> directories outside of Gnus?  You should never, EVER, do that.  For
> doing mail splitting outside of Gnus, set nnmail-use-procmail to t and
> adjust the nnmail-procmail-* variables (but the suffix can't be "").
> 
> You then have to change your mail splitting thingy so that it appends
> messages to a file rather than writing new files into a directory.
> 
Well I do not want to do that I really like the nnml backend as it is
compatible with mh and is very fast.

> Also, very fancy mail splitting can be done from within Gnus so this
> is not really necessary.
> 
Yes I know, however some times I want to read my mail without starting
emacs and I like to have a crontab splitting my mail in the
background. 

I guess what I want is nnmail-use-procmail  but for the nnml backend


arne

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      From: Arne Elofsson         Email: arne@rune.biokemi.su.se
      Tel:+46(0)8-161553   WWW:  http://www.biokemi.su.se/~arne/

Re: Feature request ? (or help)

[Kai Grossjohann]

>>>>> Arne Elofsson writes:

>>>>> Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@charly.informatik.uni-dortmund.de>
>>>>> writes:

  Kai> You then have to change your mail splitting thingy so that it
  Kai> appends messages to a file rather than writing new files into a
  Kai> directory.

  Arne> Well I do not want to do that I really like the nnml backend
  Arne> as it is compatible with mh and is very fast.

Obviously, there has been a misunderstanding here.
nnmail-use-procmail and friends are fully compatible with all
backends.  Thus, there is no reason for you to give up using the nnml
backend.

Here's how it works.  You put the following in .emacs or .gnus.el:

(setq nnmail-use-procmail t)
(setq nnmail-procmail-directory "~/spool/")
(setq nnmail-procmail-suffix "\\.in")

Now, have your mail splitting stuff write all messages for the foo.bar
group into the following file: ~/spool/foo.bar.in
When you then tell Gnus to get new news/mail, Gnus will read all the
messages in ~/spool/foo.bar.in and it will put them into the foo.bar
group.

This works fine for whatever backend you have, be it nnml (which is
what I have been using for a long time, together with the values you
see above), nnfolder, nnbabyl or anything else.

It might be, however, that the name of the spool file depends on the
values of gnus-use-long-file-name and nnmail-use-long-file-names.
Maybe the file is called ~/spool/foo/bar.in instead?

Anyone?

Also, I'm not sure if the suffix can be empty.  There was a time where
it couldn't be empty, but I'm not sure now.  Also, not that this is a
regexp.

  Kai> Also, very fancy mail splitting can be done from within Gnus so
  Kai> this is not really necessary.

  Arne> Yes I know, however some times I want to read my mail without
  Arne> starting emacs and I like to have a crontab splitting my mail
  Arne> in the background.

I see.  Well, this is not well addressed by the above.  You would have
to read the ~/spool/foo.bar.in files from without Emacs to get at the
new mail.  Would that be possible?

  Arne> I guess what I want is nnmail-use-procmail but for the nnml
  Arne> backend

See above; it is very well possible.

Maybe for what you were trying to do originally, nnmh is better
suited.  nnmh does not have the problems with corrupted active files
and the like.

kai
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Re: Feature request ? (or help)

[David Worenklein]

    Kai> Also, I'm not sure if the suffix can be empty.  There was a
    Kai> time where it couldn't be empty, but I'm not sure now.

It can.

    Arne> Yes I know, however some times I want to read my mail
    Arne> without starting emacs and I like to have a crontab
    Arne> splitting my mail in the background.

    Kai>  I see.  Well, this is not well addressed by the above.  You
    Kai> would have to read the ~/spool/foo.bar.in files from without

If you're using mh, you can get the mail from wherever you want.  Just
set your .mh_profile

inc: -form ~/Mail/.scanformat -file ~/Mail/spool/inbox -truncate
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 David C. Worenklein                                       GREENWICH   CAPITAL
 Operations Support                                        M a r k e t s,  Inc
 =============================================================================
 phone: 203-625-2945                                                      ====
 fax:   203-629-2535                                                      ====
 e-mail: dcw@gcm.com                                                      ====

procmail AND /usr/spool/mail/me (was Re: Feature request ? (or help))

[Jack Vinson]

Okay, Lars and I have been having some problems with this one for a while
and it is still not resolved to my liking.

I switched over to nnml a few months ago with procmail (well, something
like it) splitting the majority of my mail into spool files on
nnmail-procmail-directory.  However, any leftover mail gets left alone and
goes into my /usr/spool/mail/jvinson (my nnmail-spool-file) which is also
read when snarfing mail, according to the documentation on
nnmail-use-procmail.

Now, I have all my mail groups set at levels 1 and 2 with all my news
non-mail groups set at 3 and below.  As a result, I should be able to
simply 'C-u 2 g' to get new mail.  However, when I do this, the mail that
has been pre-split is correctly dumped into their corresponding nnml
groups, but the mail in nnmail-spool-file is all slurped into a single mail
group.  This single mail group happens to appear first in the list of
groups in my .newsrc.eld.

I would be happy if someone can corroborate this.  Lars and I would be
happy if someone could come up with a source of or solution to the problem.


-- 
   (      "Mmmmmm - coffee"               (   
   ))     Jack Vinson                     ))  
 C|~~|    jvinson@cheux.ecs.umass.edu   C|~~| 
  `--'                                   `--' 

Re: procmail AND /usr/spool/mail/me (was Re: Feature request ? (or help))

[David Worenklein]

>>>>> "Jack" == Jack Vinson <jvinson@cheux.ecs.umass.edu> writes:
    Jack>  Okay, Lars and I have been having some problems with this
    Jack> one for a while and it is still not resolved to my liking.
    Jack> 
    Jack> I switched over to nnml a few months ago with procmail
    Jack> (well, something like it) splitting the majority of my mail
    Jack> into spool files on nnmail-procmail-directory.  However, any
    Jack> leftover mail gets left alone and goes into my
    Jack> /usr/spool/mail/jvinson (my nnmail-spool-file) which is also
    Jack> read when snarfing mail, according to the documentation on
    Jack> nnmail-use-procmail.
    Jack> 
    Jack> Now, I have all my mail groups set at levels 1 and 2 with
    Jack> all my news non-mail groups set at 3 and below.  As a
    Jack> result, I should be able to simply 'C-u 2 g' to get new
    Jack> mail.  However, when I do this, the mail that has been
    Jack> pre-split is correctly dumped into their corresponding nnml
    Jack> groups, but the mail in nnmail-spool-file is all slurped
    Jack> into a single mail group.  This single mail group happens to
    Jack> appear first in the list of groups in my .newsrc.eld.
    Jack> 
    Jack> I would be happy if someone can corroborate this.  Lars and
    Jack> I would be happy if someone could come up with a source of
    Jack> or solution to the problem.

If you have nnmail-spool-file set to 'procmail or nnmail-use-procmail
set to t, and nnmail-resplit-incoming set to f, gnus will not split
your mail. If you have nnmail-resplit-incoming set to t, gnus will
split all your mail, even the mail that came from a procmail spool
file.

The solution? Make nnmail-resplit-incoming a list of groups that
should be split -- all other groups should be left alone.

Sorry this isn't in patch form, but I don't have an original to diff
it against...

(defun nnmail-split-incoming (incoming func &optional exit-func group)
  "Go through the entire INCOMING file and pick out each individual mail.
FUNC will be called with the buffer narrowed to each mail."
  (let (;; If this is a group-specific split, we bind the split
	;; methods to just this group.
	(nnmail-split-methods (if (and group
								   (or (eq nnmail-spool-file 'procmail)
									   nnmail-use-procmail)
								   (or (not nnmail-resplit-incoming)
									   (and (functionp nnmail-resplit-incoming)
											(eval (list nnmail-resplit-incoming group)))
									   (and (listp nnmail-resplit-incoming)
											(not (member group nnmail-resplit-incoming)))))
				  (list (list group ""))
				nnmail-split-methods)))
    (save-excursion
   ...

Now, if only I could get message-send-mail-with-mh to work . . . :-(

--
 David C. Worenklein                                       GREENWICH   CAPITAL
 Operations Support                                        M a r k e t s,  Inc
 =============================================================================
 phone: 203-625-2945                                                      ====
 fax:   203-629-2535                                                      ====
 e-mail: dcw@gcm.com                                                      ====

nnml non-gnus-splitting etc was(Re: Feature request ? (or help))

[Arne Elofsson]

OK.

I think I see a way of getting this to work.
I should just use procmail and split my mail instead of mh
(or tell mh to split into one big input file instead of many numbered
files)

However this seems to be overkill.

All I wanted was that to be able to remove the last article in a nnml
group (from gnus) and that the second last file is marked as the last
read file. I regenerate the .overview and active files from outside
gnus. 


arne

PS. This is an example what I want to do.
---------------
1. When reading my inbox I have

Message		Status		
34		Read
128		New

---------------
2. Ok now I read message 128 and decides that it should be moved
somewhere. Now I would like gnus to mark all articles 35-128 as unread
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

---------------
3. Now I get a new message to my inbox it is placed as number 35
The problem is now that from the group buffer I can not see that I
have received a new message.  Of course if I go to the summary buffer
I see the message, alternatively I can setq nnmail-keep-last-article t
and thereby never move the last article. But none of these
alternatives is perfect.

got it ?
any easy solutions ?


arne


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      From: Arne Elofsson         Email: arne@rune.biokemi.su.se
      Tel:+46(0)8-161553   WWW:  http://www.biokemi.su.se/~arne/

Re: Feature request ? (or help)

[John Griffith]

>>>>> "KG" == Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@charly.informatik.uni-dortmund.de> writes:
>>>>> Arne Elofsson writes:

    Arne> Yes I know, however some times I want to read my mail
    Arne> without starting emacs and I like to have a crontab
    Arne> splitting my mail in the background.

    KG> I see.  Well, this is not well addressed by the above.  You
    KG> would have to read the ~/spool/foo.bar.in files from without
    KG> Emacs to get at the new mail.  Would that be possible?

I use procmail to split my mail into spool files.  One reason I use
procmail is that I like splitting to happen at delivery time.  That
way I always know when I have mail and who it's from.  Another reason
is though that I don't have to use Gnus to read it.  I just use `mail
-f ~/incoming/<file name>'.  I also have a shell script that does an
`ls' of the spool directory and lists all non-empty groups.

Re: Feature request ? (or help)

[Christopher Davis]

JG> == John Griffith <griffith@sfs.nphil.uni-tuebingen.de>

 JG> I use procmail to split my mail into spool files.  One reason I use
 JG> procmail is that I like splitting to happen at delivery time.  That
 JG> way I always know when I have mail and who it's from.  Another reason
 JG> is though that I don't have to use Gnus to read it.  I just use `mail
 JG> -f ~/incoming/<file name>'.  I also have a shell script that does an
 JG> `ls' of the spool directory and lists all non-empty groups.

Here's a perl script which is a little more sophisticated than your shell
script; procmailers may want to look at this.  (I'm not yet using Gnus to
handle my mail... does use of procmail *without* suffixes, using the
directory to disambiguate the incoming spools and the Gnus-managed mail
storage, work?  I know this had problems in the past...)

It doesn't print empty groups, prints non-empty groups, and stars
non-empty groups that have been modified since last access (since last
access is typically by something like "from", "subj", "Mail", or "less").

#!/usr/bin/perl

$spooldir = "$ENV{'HOME'}/Mail/spool";

chdir($spooldir) || die "can't chdir";

foreach (<*>) {
    ($dev,$ino,$mode,$nlink,$uid,$gid,$rdev,$size,
     $atime,$mtime,$ctime,$blksize,$blocks) = stat($_);
    next if ($size == 0);
    print (($atime < $mtime)?" ** ":"    ");
    print $_,"\n";
}

Re: Feature request ? (or help)

[Steven L Baur]

>>>>> "ckd" == Christopher Davis <ckd@loiosh.kei.com> writes:

ckd> Here's a perl script which is a little more sophisticated than
ckd> your shell script; procmailers may want to look at this.  (I'm
ckd> not yet using Gnus to handle my mail... does use of procmail
ckd> *without* suffixes, using the directory to disambiguate the
ckd> incoming spools and the Gnus-managed mail storage, work?  I know
ckd> this had problems in the past...)

There's also Joe Hildebrand's wonderful jangle.tcl which is a tcl/tk
program that keeps track of mail spool files with new mail in them.

-- 
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Andrea Seastrand: For your vote on the Telecom bill, I will vote for anyone
except you in November.

Re: Feature request ? (or help)

[Ed Donovan]

Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com> writes:
> >>>>> "ckd" == Christopher Davis <ckd@loiosh.kei.com> writes:
> ckd> Here's a perl script which is a little more sophisticated than
> ckd> your shell script; procmailers may want to look at this.  (I'm
> ckd> not yet using Gnus to handle my mail... does use of procmail
> ckd> *without* suffixes, using the directory to disambiguate the
> ckd> incoming spools and the Gnus-managed mail storage, work?  I know
> ckd> this had problems in the past...)
> 
> There's also Joe Hildebrand's wonderful jangle.tcl which is a tcl/tk
> program that keeps track of mail spool files with new mail in them.

There's also also (not at all to say what's better or best) the 'mailstat'
shell script in the procmail package.  I call it on login, 'mailstat
~/.procmail/log' and get:

  Total  Number Folder
  -----  ------ ------
   3627       2 /usr/spool/mail/edonovan
   5454       2 debian-changes.spool
 121747      56 debian-user.spool
  62155      26 ding.spool
   3158       1 w3-beta.spool
  19540      12 xmalpha.spool

(I got this from the Filtering Mail FAQ, which was a great document for
me beginning this stuff, so I plug it: the usual faq-y places &
<URL:http://www.smartpages.com/faqs/mail/filtering-faq/faq.html> )

-- 

Ed Donovan			edonovan@world.std.com

Re: Feature request ? (or help)

[Kai Grossjohann]

>>>>> David Worenklein writes:

  David> If you're using mh, you can get the mail from wherever you
  David> want.  Just set your .mh_profile

  David> inc: -form ~/Mail/.scanformat -file ~/Mail/spool/inbox -truncate

But you should _\bn_\bo_\bt do this with any other backend (like nnml)
because the active file then isn't updated (and the overview file,
too).

kai
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Re: nnml non-gnus-splitting etc was(Re: Feature request ? (or help))

[Kai Grossjohann]

>>>>> Arne Elofsson writes:

  Arne> 1. When reading my inbox I have

  Arne> Message		Status		
  Arne> 34		Read
  Arne> 128		New

  Arne> ---------------
  Arne> 2. Ok now I read message 128 and decides that it should be moved
  Arne> somewhere. Now I would like gnus to mark all articles 35-128 as unread
  Arne>            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  Arne> ---------------

How about just setting this `don't delete the last article' variable?
That should solve all your problems: when you move Mr 128 to another
group the file isn't deleted from disk.  So, MH will write the next
message as 129 and everything will be fine.

    nnmail-keep-last-article's value is nil

    Documentation:
    *If non-nil, nnmail will never delete the last expired article in
    a directory.  You may need to set this variable if other programs
    are putting new mail into folder numbers that Gnus has marked as
    expired.

hth,
kai
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