Re: Emacs Mailer Options

Re: Emacs Mailer Options

[harel barzilai]

newsspam5REMOVETHIS@robf.de wrote:
> "harel barzilai" <barzilai@gmail.com> writes:
> [...]
> > Apparnetly VM and GNUS, available for GNU emacs (I don't have Xemacs
> > though some day I'll look into that option, I'm not there yet with my
> > ssh setup) and they both understand Maildir.
>
> IMHO VM does NOT understand maildir.
>
> Why do you think it does?
>
> You could also take a look at Wonderlust
> http://www.gohome.org/wl/ but IMHO Gnus
> is the right thing.
>
> Robert.

Hello Robert/others...

Perhaps you saw my earlier reply regarding why it appeared that VM can
handle Maildir (http://www.wonderworks.com/vm/vm-faq-4.html#ss4.5) but
that might have been a mis-reading of that page and I have moved on to
exploring more promising leads. Mew is starting to get complicated so
I am looking into gnus, which you recommended, in parallel..

To try to minimize the learning curve I found

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/gnus-faq/section-54.html

"Q4.11 Using Gnus for mail and never news"

and put the

(setq gnus-select-method '(nnml ""))
(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods nil)

in my .emacs but it still asks me for NNTP when I M-x gnus...This is a
dumb question I'm sure but I don't know what it wants..and I'd almost
rather not know..I want to ignore nntp etc for the time being (I have
vague ancient memories from 15 years ago about "rn" and "nn" etc using
that..haven't been using those in 15 years..I don't want to learn that
until my mail is working, see below)

Second, I don't know what exactly procmail does on the system I am a
user of (dreamhost.com) but they do have procmail. Does that mean I
have to follow the directions on "Procmail and Gnus"? Because they
indicate at "Procmail and Gnus"
(http://www.faqs.org/faqs/gnus-faq/section-51.html) "And then I have
procmail deliver to ~/.incoming/inbox.spool" which appears to be
"mbox" format rather than "Maildir" format. My question: Is that true?

Because, that would be a problem, since Dreamhost.com indicates I
*must* switch to maildir format from mbox (that is exactly why I am
moving away from rmail!) in order to have their built-in anti-spam
software work for me..

That is the most important question (in a negative sort of way..) iff
the answer
is that I must move away from Maildir format to use gnus for
email..it's
NOT enough that gnus can convert from maildir to mbox...dreamhost.com
already used procmail to do that for me...the issue is I must keep mail
in Maildir format in order to use dreamhost.com's built-in
anti-spam..(and
as I said their rules make it very dangerous for me to try to install a
local copy
of anti-spam on my shell..)

Hope the above questions are reasonably clear. Many thanks,
Harel
Assuming the above two are not problems, third and last question is,
is there a short simple, easy to follow guide on "how to use Gnus for
just email? I don't see one at
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/gnus-faq/preamble.html and I haven't used
emacs' "info" (which I suspect has a section for this) in a good
decade or so,  so is there a short html page? (also html is easily
printable..I cannot easily print what I see in my emacs...again, I'm
just using a plain text terminal program to ssh into a shell from
which I run the command 'emacs'...) Thanks!

Harel

Re: Emacs Mailer Options

[Reiner Steib]

[ Removed gnu.emacs.vm.info, Followup-To: comp.emacs ]

On Fri, Dec 29 2006, harel barzilai wrote:

> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/gnus-faq/section-54.html

This document is no longer the official Gnus FAQ (it's from 2001).
The current FAQ is distributed with Gnus 5.10 and later (info
"(gnus)Frequently Asked Questions") and it's available on the web at
<http://my.gnus.org/FAQ/>.  I'd strongly recommend to use upgrade to
Gnus 5.10.8 (if you use Emacs 21 or XEmacs) or better use the Gnus
version (= Gnus 5.11 ~= Gnus 5.10.8) bundled with Emacs 22 (pretest).

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Emacs Mailer Options

[Slackat]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+from-uce@imap.cc> writes:

> [ Removed gnu.emacs.vm.info, Followup-To: comp.emacs ]
>
> On Fri, Dec 29 2006, harel barzilai wrote:
>
>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/gnus-faq/section-54.html
>
> This document is no longer the official Gnus FAQ (it's from 2001).
> The current FAQ is distributed with Gnus 5.10 and later (info
> "(gnus)Frequently Asked Questions") and it's available on the web at
> <http://my.gnus.org/FAQ/>.  I'd strongly recommend to use upgrade to
> Gnus 5.10.8 (if you use Emacs 21 or XEmacs) or better use the Gnus
> version (= Gnus 5.11 ~= Gnus 5.10.8) bundled with Emacs 22 (pretest).
>
> Bye, Reiner.
> -- 
>        ,,,
>       (o o)
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
testing
-- 
Slackrat
AKA Bill Henderson
[No _4Q_ for direct email]
emacs/gnus config [http://azurservers.com/gnus]

Re: Emacs Mailer Options

[Giorgos Keramidas]

On 28 Dec 2006 21:20:22 -0800, "harel barzilai" <barzilai@gmail.com> wrote:
> To try to minimize the learning curve I found
> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/gnus-faq/section-54.html
> [...]
> Second, I don't know what exactly procmail does on the system I am a
> user of (dreamhost.com) but they do have procmail. Does that mean I
> have to follow the directions on "Procmail and Gnus"? Because they
> indicate at "Procmail and Gnus"
> (http://www.faqs.org/faqs/gnus-faq/section-51.html) "And then I have
> procmail deliver to ~/.incoming/inbox.spool" which appears to be
> "mbox" format rather than "Maildir" format. My question: Is that true?

You can deliver to Maildir folders with procmail too.  The trick is to
create a Maildir folder first, and then append '/' to the folder name in
your `.procmailrc' file.

To create an empty Maildir/ folder, you can use:

    $ mkdir -p Maildir/cur Maildir/new Maildir/tmp
    $ chmod 0700 Maildir Maildir/*

A delivery recipe, which sends all 'FreeBSD-related' email into this
folder would look like this:

    :0 H
    * Sender:.*@.*freebsd.org
    Maildir/

Note the use of a trailing '/' character to denote that this is not a
UNIX "mbox" folder, but a Maildir folder.

> Because, that would be a problem, since Dreamhost.com indicates I
> *must* switch to maildir format from mbox (that is exactly why I am
> moving away from rmail!) in order to have their built-in anti-spam
> software work for me..

That's a silly requirement, but oh well...

> That is the most important question (in a negative sort of way..) iff
> the answer is that I must move away from Maildir format to use gnus
> for email..it's NOT enough that gnus can convert from maildir to
> mbox...dreamhost.com already used procmail to do that for me...the
> issue is I must keep mail in Maildir format in order to use
> dreamhost.com's built-in anti-spam.

Does their build-in antispam stuff work with your Maildir folders
*after* email has been delivered into the folder?

If this is true, it may be tricky to get their antispam to work with
Gnus and "nnml"-style folders.  You can use Gnus to read messages
*directly* from the Maildir/ folder though.

Re: Emacs Mailer Options

[harel barzilai]

[removing "vm" group from "Followup-to"]


Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
> On 28 Dec 2006 21:20:22 -0800, "harel barzilai" <barzilai@gmail.com> wrote:
> > To try to minimize the learning curve I found
> > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/gnus-faq/section-54.html
> > [...]
> > Second, I don't know what exactly procmail does on the system I am a
> > user of (dreamhost.com) but they do have procmail. Does that mean I
> > have to follow the directions on "Procmail and Gnus"? Because they
> > indicate at "Procmail and Gnus"
> > (http://www.faqs.org/faqs/gnus-faq/section-51.html) "And then I have
> > procmail deliver to ~/.incoming/inbox.spool" which appears to be
> > "mbox" format rather than "Maildir" format. My question: Is that true?
>
> You can deliver to Maildir folders with procmail too.  The trick is to
> create a Maildir folder first, and then append '/' to the folder name in
> your `.procmailrc' file.
>
> To create an empty Maildir/ folder, you can use:
>
>     $ mkdir -p Maildir/cur Maildir/new Maildir/tmp
>     $ chmod 0700 Maildir Maildir/*

Do I need to do this to get gnus working? Unless I'm even more confused
than I think I am ;-) I don't...the Dreamhost system already has a
~/Maildir/ and under "new" subfolder creates files like
"1167545251.23134_0.looneymail-mx1" for messages. This is NEW to me
since up to now I have used the "mbox" format..but the Dreamhost
built-in antispam doesn't work so
I'm trying to move to Maildir format...if/when I can find an emacs mail
reader that handles
that..gnus is bulit in so I'm trying that..


> A delivery recipe, which sends all 'FreeBSD-related' email into this
> folder would look like this:
>
>     :0 H
>     * Sender:.*@.*freebsd.org
>     Maildir/


I think I can skip this too since it's already in the shell given to me
by Dreamhost.com to do this...

Now things get interesting...I created a new user "user_a"  in addition
 the user "harel"
so I can experiment with learning...unfortunately I did a "M-x gnus" to
try to resolve
the NNTP question while still in my "harel" regular account and it
sucked  all
existing emails (from the mbox file for the "harel" account) in my
regular, "harel" account into gnus...
so now I need to figure out how to use gnus in a HURRY...    :-O

I got " *: nndraft:draft" but it wouldn't let me hit return..which is
what I thought
http://my.gnus.org/tutorial/Using-Gnus.html#Using-Gnus was telling me
to do to enter a group..
since the messages are old and not urgent I quit emacs..now I need to
figure out how
to visit the ~/Mail/mail/misc/ it created with my old 200 message
WITHOUT having
it suck in all new messages from my "mbox" style mail spool file...I
can *probably* (he
says hopefully) figure out how to do that on my own..but wondering what
went
wrong with my attempt to "enter group under cursor" earlier..

Let me now try M-x gnus while logged into my "usera" test account
(Dreamhosts's
web panel lets you create that..I still do not have sysop ability in
any way...just the
panel lets a  dreamhost customer create another "user" ...) and see
what happens
with the mail there..because that "usera" account has the "Maildir"
format not
the "mbox" format for email. By the way both  accounts/uses have in
.emacs the lines

(setq gnus-select-method '(nnml ""))
(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods nil)

because the online FAQ said to use that if you want to use gnus ONLY
for email not
usenet (which for the time being is my wish, taking things one step at
a time.. :-)

Ok..I typed M-x gnus <Return> and it says "Gnus v5.9.0 (fundamental)"
which
makes sense to me as a longtime emacs user...and it says: "nnml:
reading  incoming
mail from file..." and its not doing anything else...it did this for 3
or so solid minutes...I was
just about to C-g out of it but finally it now says, "movemail:  (1
return).  Continue? (yes or no)"
so I'll cross fingers and type "yes"...ok I'm now getting

   *: nndraft:drafts

again... and I'm getting "can't select group" again when I try to  hit
return or space.

But this time the reason must be different because my mail still sits
in ~/Maildir/new/ and there is nothing in the (I think?) gnus-created
~/Mail/
for my "usera" account I guess I need to tell gnus to fetch
email from the Maildir style folders in ~/Maildir/   how do I do this?

And for my "harel" account, how do I get gnus to enter (and allow
me to "Enter group" etc) the 200 messages now sitting in the
Mail/mail/misc/ gnus created
(when I accidentally told it too, I guess) earlier tonight?

And is there an online tutorial that's I should follow instead of the
url above?
Thanks!
Harel

p.s.

> Does their build-in antispam stuff work with your Maildir folders
> *after* email has been delivered into the folder?
>
> If this is true, it may be tricky to get their antispam to work with
> Gnus and "nnml"-style folders.  You can use Gnus to read messages
> *directly* from the Maildir/ folder though.

I think it does it before.. guess we will find out (if I get tons of
spam,
at "usera" account, then I guess it means it does antispam after...but
I hope/think it does antispam before depositing messges in ~/Maildir/ )

Learning gnus for email only (Was: Re: Emacs Mailer Options)

[harel barzilai]

Thanks for all the suggestions in the previous thread "Emacs Maier
Options"..I will look into the other options suggested (including rmail
antispam), and will add the tutorial url to the gnus.org manu urls I've
been reading.. but only so many minutes per day and so far I've
invested some good hours into the gnus-as-email reader pathway and it
looks workable...and hope a handful of questions here can have at least
that solution "up and running" for me..I might be only 3 or so
questions away from being able to use gnus for my purposes

(I was somewhat relieved to find
http://www.cyphertext.net/~gfish/mrd/gnus-overview.html which stated,
"To supplement the online Gnus manuals this is a brief overview of the
system. The online docs really do have a lot of information, but I had
a very hard time getting started with them, especially using Gnus to
read mail." so I'm not the only one who has struggled with the online
site (gnus.org/manual.html) but alas even "gfish" intro skips some
"chapter zero" items) So here goes with the questions..

A brief recap of my situation is at the bottom, skippable if you've
read it in my previous posts: but bottom line is I *must* use the
~/Maildir/ directory in my home dir in the shell account I have with
dreamhost.com and into which I ssh (via text only terminal program)
and from which shell I run emacs.. In the account in question all mail
is automatically put into ~/Maildir/ for me (or into new/ etc
subdirectories thereof I guess) My questions are..

1) Am I correct in my impression that I should NOT take the advice
   from the FAQ that

;; Q4.11 Using Gnus for mail and never news
;; Sam Falkner <samf@beehive.frii.com> writes:
;;   I'd like to use gnus to do my email at work, without doing usenet
news
;;   *at all*.
;;
;;   Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> responds:
;;   Change your primary select method to your mail backend:
;;
;; (setq gnus-select-method '(nnml ""))
;; (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods nil)

since it seems that "nnml" is one of the "backends" and if I want
Maildir format for my files, then I'd better not use "nnml"

2) If I correctly understand "6.3.2 Getting Started Reading Mail"
(http://gnus.org/manual/gnus_160.html) then the place to put
my preferences is ~/.gnus.el and in my case instead of:

 (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml "")))

I'll want to put something like

(setq gnus-select-method '(nnmaildir ""))
(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods nil)

Since 6.3.13.5 "Maildir" (http://gnus.org/manual/gnus_180.html#SEC180)
indicates "nnmaildir" is the name for the Maildir format for mail
preference. And do I have the correct exact format in the above two
lines for my .gnus.el? (I also assume it's ok to M-x byte-compile
it and have emacs thus use .gnus.elc?)

3) If I understood correctly, somewhere in the Gnus Manual it said
that I can just let gnus read directly from the ~/Maildir/ directory
rather than have it make copies, yes? And, since gnus normally makes
~/Mail/ the directory, and since dreamhost.com's setup (which I had
better not tinker with, see note at bottom) automatically delivers my
incoming email in Maildir format into ~/Maildir/ then what it appears
I want and need to do it to tell gnus to change that..I think I've
found the answer here " 6.3.4.3 Mail Source Customization"
(http://gnus.org/manual/gnus_165.html)

;; mail-source-ignore-errors
;;     If non-nil, ignore errors when reading mail from a mail source.
;;
;; mail-source-directory
;;     Directory where files (if any) will be stored. The default is
;; '~/Mail/'.    At present, the only thing this is used for is to say
;;     where the incoming files will be stored if the previous variable
;;     is nil.
;;
;; mail-source-incoming-file-prefix
;;     Prefix for file name for storing incoming mail. The default is
;;     'Incoming' in which case files will end up with names like
;;     'Incoming30630D_' or 'Incoming298602ZD'. This is really only
;;     relevant if mail-source-delete-incoming is nil.

So if I follow, then I need to set the mail-source-directory
variable to "~/Maildir/" ..And put it into my ~/.gnus.el yes? What is
the exact format (I do not speak elisp..).

3b) Lastly here, do I need to worry about the
mail-source-incoming-file-prefix? The manual seemed to indicate to
just go ahead and let gnus mess with (i.e., change) the individual
files where individual mail messages are, in the original "spool"
directory rather than have a separate copy..but what if the format
gnus uses is different than the format in which the files arrive? For
example, using test messages, I see the Maildir spool looks like this:
inside the ~/Maildir there are directories.. and inside "new/" the
file names look like this:

--------------------------------------------------

*    /home/user_a/Maildir/new:
*   used 16 available 988114812
*
*   drwx------  2 user_a pg6640 4096 2007-01-01 01:47 .
*   drwx------  6 user_a pg6640 4096 2006-12-31 01:32 ..
*   -rw-------  1 user_a   5090 1849 2006-12-31 01:07
1167545251.23134_0.looneymail-mx1
*   -rw-------  1 user_a   5090 1600 2006-12-31 00:51
1167544309.22136_1.looneymail-mx1

--------------------------------------------------


which appears to be a different name scheme than the one gnus uses
with it's "incoming" ..no problems will result from using gnus
on ~/Maildir with this setup?

4) Once I have the above settled, I can hopefully start reading the
mail from my ~/Maildir/ and was wondering, should I then worry about:

;;   Subject: Q4.4 What happened to my new mail groups?
;;
;;   I got new mail, but I have never seen the groups they should have
;;   been placed in.
;;
;;   They are probably there, but as zombies. Press 'A z' to list
zombie
;;   groups, and then subscribe to the groups you want with 'u' This is
;;   all documented quite nicely in the user's manual.
;;
;; http://www.faqs.org/faqs/gnus-faq/

Thanks,
Harel

(Brief Recap of my situation, skippable if you've read it in previous
posts: my GNU/linux shell provider dreamhost.com switched to Maildir
format from mbox some years ago, making it impossible for me to use
rmail..they did a one-time switch to have all my mail be in one 'mbox'
format file, so I've been able to read w/rmail..but spam has grown
(and grown and..) over these years and dreamhost's built-in antispam
works only if I switch to maildir format..(due to dreamhost's rules
it's too risky for me to try to install a local antispam at this time)
so emacs mail readers which understand maildir format are what I
need..trying to learn gnus for just reading mail so I can avoid 20+
spams/day..will look into gnus for usenet later..using google for now)
I've used the dreamhost web based panel to create a user "usera" with
a separate shell that has the standard setup whereby all email is
automatically put into its ~/Maildir/ directory. Once I figure out
a workable emacs mail reader that can do this I'll switch over my
existing "harel" user/shell  account to that as well..

Re: Learning gnus for email only

[Reiner Steib]

On Mon, Jan 01 2007, harel barzilai wrote:

> (I was somewhat relieved to find
> http://www.cyphertext.net/~gfish/mrd/gnus-overview.html which stated,
[...]
> 1) Am I correct in my impression that I should NOT take the advice
>    from the FAQ that
>
> ;; Q4.11 Using Gnus for mail and never news

I already told you in the previous thread *not* to rely on the
outdated FAQ.  The text of "gfish" refers to "Pterodactyl Gnus" (Gnus
5.8) as a "new" version of Gnus, so it is probably outdated as well.

Please don't rely on random private web pages and consult the manual
that comes with Gnus and the Gnus tutorial instead.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Learning gnus for email only

[harel barzilai]

Reiner Steib wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 01 2007, harel barzilai wrote:
>
> > (I was somewhat relieved to find
> > http://www.cyphertext.net/~gfish/mrd/gnus-overview.html which stated,
> [...]
> > 1) Am I correct in my impression that I should NOT take the advice
> >    from the FAQ that
> >
> > ;; Q4.11 Using Gnus for mail and never news
>
> I already told you in the previous thread *not* to rely on the
> outdated FAQ.  The text of "gfish" refers to "Pterodactyl Gnus" (Gnus
> 5.8) as a "new" version of Gnus, so it is probably outdated as well.
>
> Please don't rely on random private web pages and consult the manual
> that comes with Gnus and the Gnus tutorial instead.
>
> Bye, Reiner.

Reiner, first, I thank you for the tutorial url, though which I am now
struggling to get through,
having earlier worked through other pages. Please note I was *not*
relying on "random
private web pages" for anything other than quoting him saying he, too,
was not
able to get enough information from
http://gnus.org/manual.html...luckly, again, I'm not
trying to follow the tutorial url instead, though looks like I will
still need to post a followup question
or two here after reading it..

As for the faq.org yes, that is clearly out of date...perhaps someone
can request they
either update or remove the out-dated gnus faq from their site? google
gives
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-faq.text as second hit for
"gnus faq" while
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/gnus-faq/ still comes out at #1, alas..

HB

> --
>        ,,,
>       (o o)
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Learning gnus for email only

[harel barzilai]

Thanks again for the updated gnus tutorial web page...I think I have
most of the "Set-up"
figured out except the mail source..and the tutorial has a broken link
for more information
on mail sources, unfortunately..

The tutorial in http://my.gnus.org/tutorial/Mail.html#Mail I was able
to follow until then, and so far I've put in my .gnus.el the following

 (setq user-mail-address "usera@harelbarzilai.org")
(setq user-full-name "Harel's Test Account")

(add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods '(nnmaildir ""))

(setq smtpmail-local-domain "harelbarzilai.org")
(setq smtpmail-sendto-domain "harelbarzilai.org")
(setq smtpmail-debug-info t) ; only to debug problems

though the internal "CCC Anyone out there who can give more info?"
comment next to listing "nnmaildir" , made by the author(s) of the
Tutorial has me a tad worried.. The broken link is to "See Mail Source
Specifiers (Gnus)," which points at
http://my.gnus.org/gnus/Mail-Source-Specifiers.html#Mail-Source-Specifiers"
which doesn't exist. Perhaps I should notify the tutorial authors? In
any case, the only examples they give for mail-sources are of the form,

 (setq mail-sources '((pop :server "frumple" :user "jrl")))

Let me preface my next and last question by saying: I must confess I've
been living in a cave as far as pop servers..have just ssh'd into shell
and used "Mail" or rmail since 1989..emacs fan
since then (well rmail  plus university's preinstalled software, plus
now gmail) but never
ever used outlook eudora etc,  only shell or emacs commands..now my
question: somewhere in its docs dreamhost tells me "mail.mydomain.com"
(or in this case "mail.harelbarzilai.org") is the pop mail server..but
dont' I somehow need to tell gnus to go looking at ~/Maildir/ for mail?
I'm running gnus from inside emacs, of course and emacs from the shell,
and the shell I'm accessing via ssh via a simple text terminal
program..I know the web browser says it can't find
mail.harelbarzilai.org....so pardon me if I'm confused
but since dreamhost (though ways I don't know and have never needed to
know) have all my
incoming mail delivered to /home/username/Maildir/ also known as
~/Maildir/  , for
each "user" I create for my account, don't I need to just tell gnus to
go look at ~/Maildir?
I think by default it looks in (and/or creates) ~/Mail/ ...how can I
change this to ~/Maildir?

Since the link is broken and I don't know elisp formatting I'd need the
exact line to copy
paste into .gnus.el instead of the above "frumple" example... Sorry if
I'm missing something
but I've read the my.gnus.org tutorial chapter 7 entirely though
including 7.2 (and
earlier portions which gave user-mail-address etc) and need this last
piece to finish
the set-up of .gnus.el for reading email, it seems.

Wishing everyone a safe and fulfilling 2007 :-)

Harel

Re: Learning gnus for email only

[Slackat]

"harel barzilai" <barzilai@gmail.com> writes:

> Thanks again for the updated gnus tutorial web page...I think I have
> most of the "Set-up"
> figured out except the mail source..and the tutorial has a broken link
> for more information
> on mail sources, unfortunately..
>
> The tutorial in http://my.gnus.org/tutorial/Mail.html#Mail I was able
> to follow until then, and so far I've put in my .gnus.el the following
>
>  (setq user-mail-address "usera@harelbarzilai.org")
> (setq user-full-name "Harel's Test Account")
>
> (add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods '(nnmaildir ""))
>
> (setq smtpmail-local-domain "harelbarzilai.org")
> (setq smtpmail-sendto-domain "harelbarzilai.org")
> (setq smtpmail-debug-info t) ; only to debug problems
>
> though the internal "CCC Anyone out there who can give more info?"
> comment next to listing "nnmaildir" , made by the author(s) of the
> Tutorial has me a tad worried.. The broken link is to "See Mail Source
> Specifiers (Gnus)," which points at
> http://my.gnus.org/gnus/Mail-Source-Specifiers.html#Mail-Source-Specifiers"
> which doesn't exist. Perhaps I should notify the tutorial authors? In
> any case, the only examples they give for mail-sources are of the form,
>
>  (setq mail-sources '((pop :server "frumple" :user "jrl")))
>
> Let me preface my next and last question by saying: I must confess I've
> been living in a cave as far as pop servers..have just ssh'd into shell
> and used "Mail" or rmail since 1989..emacs fan
> since then (well rmail  plus university's preinstalled software, plus
> now gmail) but never
> ever used outlook eudora etc,  only shell or emacs commands..now my
> question: somewhere in its docs dreamhost tells me "mail.mydomain.com"
> (or in this case "mail.harelbarzilai.org") is the pop mail server..but
> dont' I somehow need to tell gnus to go looking at ~/Maildir/ for mail?
> I'm running gnus from inside emacs, of course and emacs from the shell,
> and the shell I'm accessing via ssh via a simple text terminal
> program..I know the web browser says it can't find
> mail.harelbarzilai.org....so pardon me if I'm confused
> but since dreamhost (though ways I don't know and have never needed to
> know) have all my
> incoming mail delivered to /home/username/Maildir/ also known as
> ~/Maildir/  , for
> each "user" I create for my account, don't I need to just tell gnus to
> go look at ~/Maildir?
> I think by default it looks in (and/or creates) ~/Mail/ ...how can I
> change this to ~/Maildir?
>
> Since the link is broken and I don't know elisp formatting I'd need the
> exact line to copy
> paste into .gnus.el instead of the above "frumple" example... Sorry if
> I'm missing something
> but I've read the my.gnus.org tutorial chapter 7 entirely though
> including 7.2 (and
> earlier portions which gave user-mail-address etc) and need this last
> piece to finish
> the set-up of .gnus.el for reading email, it seems.
>
> Wishing everyone a safe and fulfilling 2007 :-)
>
> Harel

Personally I use fetchmail to bring in mail from pop servers

Basically I use my own azurservers.com for mail, but it's nice to
have backup facilities, so storing it in /root and ignoring the groans
from the system: '.fetchmailrc'

poll pop.MY_POP-SERVER.fr proto POP3 user 'william.henderson' password 'PASSWORD' is 'billhenderson'  here
poll pop.MY_POP-SERVER.fr proto POP3 user 'billhenderson'     password 'PASSWORD' is 'billhenderson'  here
poll pop.MY_POP-SERVER.fr proto POP3 user 'slackrat'          password 'PASSWORD' is 'slackrat'       here
poll pop.MY_POP-SERVER.fr proto POP3 user 'daveycrockett'     password 'PASSWORD' is 'daveycrockett'  here
poll pop.MY_POP-SERVER.fr proto POP3 user 'joannevalliere'    password 'PASSWORD' is 'joannevalliere' here
poll pop.MY_POP-SERVER.fr proto POP3 user 'lysrossitier'      password 'PASSWORD' is 'lysrossitier'   here
poll pop.MY_POP-SERVER.fr proto POP3 user 'meggydupres'       password 'PASSWORD' is 'meggydupres'    here
poll pop.MY_POP-SERVER.fr proto POP3 user 'avatarazur'        password 'PASSWORD' is 'avatarazur'     here


## NOTHER-POP-SERVER.COM
#poll mail.NUTHER_POP-SERVER.com  proto POP3 user 'slackrat'          password 'PASSWORD' is 'inconnu'  here
#poll mail.NUTHER_POP-SERVER.com  proto POP3 user 'henderson_we'      password 'PASSWORD' is 'inconnu'  here
#poll mail.NUTHER_POP-SERVER.com  proto POP3 user 'daveycrockett'     password 'PASSWORD' is 'inconnu'  here

=================

/etc.rc.d/rc.local starts fetchmail

# Bring in the Mail
echo "  "
echo INFORMATION: Starting FetchMail
/usr/bin/fetchmail -f /root/.fetchmailrc -d 600 -K

========================

/home/inconnu/.gnus or .emacs since I'm not fussy

;; WHERE  ARE THE INBOUND MESSAGES STORED AND WHERE SHOULD GNUS PUT THEM
;; #####################################################################
(setq nnmail-spool-file '(  
   (file :path "/var/spool/mail/inconnu")  
   (directory :path "/home/inconnu/Mail")  
)


-- 
Slackrat
AKA Bill Henderson
[No _4Q_ for direct email]
emacs/gnus config [http://azurservers.com/gnus]

Re: Learning gnus for email only

[harel barzilai]

I mean, basically, it seems that it should be the case that I shouldn't
need to have anything
do deal with pop servers directly, since I'm not using a mail client
e.g. eudora...my earlier
settup was

a) ssh into my shell  via plain text terminal ; run emacs from the
shell ; use rmail from emacs (Which read the spool file ~/INBOX
directly and I didn't need to tell emacs/rmail anything or know
anything about pop

versus now, with the dreamhost "testing 1..2..3.." account where the
incoming email
is not in ~/INBOX mbox format but rather in maildir format, in that
user's ~/Maildir/  the setup
would be:

b)  ssh into my shell  via plain text terminal ; run emacs from the
shell ; use gnus from emacs (Which
I want to just tell it to look at ~/Maildir/ )

so there isn't  that big a difference..my comments were only re my
mostly
ignorance and lack of exp. w/pop...but looking at how similar b) is to
a) it seems like
if I'm happy to just use the old ssh via termianl program, then run
emacs, then gnus wouldn't
need to know about (and I wouldn't need to worry about) the whole world
of pop, any
more than I did when using a) ....is that not correct? if I'm correct,
then I just need
(per my post last night, below) the exact code syntax for telling gnus
to look
at ~/Maildir/ (and to put messages there) when I specify what gnus
calls mail-source
...that's all I (think/hope :-) I need to know...

Harel

harel barzilai wrote:
> Thanks again for the updated gnus tutorial web page...I think I have
> most of the "Set-up"
> figured out except the mail source..and the tutorial has a broken link
> for more information
> on mail sources, unfortunately..
>
> The tutorial in http://my.gnus.org/tutorial/Mail.html#Mail I was able
> to follow until then, and so far I've put in my .gnus.el the following
>
>  (setq user-mail-address "usera@harelbarzilai.org")
> (setq user-full-name "Harel's Test Account")
>
> (add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods '(nnmaildir ""))
>
> (setq smtpmail-local-domain "harelbarzilai.org")
> (setq smtpmail-sendto-domain "harelbarzilai.org")
> (setq smtpmail-debug-info t) ; only to debug problems
>
> though the internal "CCC Anyone out there who can give more info?"
> comment next to listing "nnmaildir" , made by the author(s) of the
> Tutorial has me a tad worried.. The broken link is to "See Mail Source
> Specifiers (Gnus)," which points at
> http://my.gnus.org/gnus/Mail-Source-Specifiers.html#Mail-Source-Specifiers"
> which doesn't exist. Perhaps I should notify the tutorial authors? In
> any case, the only examples they give for mail-sources are of the form,
>
>  (setq mail-sources '((pop :server "frumple" :user "jrl")))
>
> Let me preface my next and last question by saying: I must confess I've
> been living in a cave as far as pop servers..have just ssh'd into shell
> and used "Mail" or rmail since 1989..emacs fan
> since then (well rmail  plus university's preinstalled software, plus
> now gmail) but never
> ever used outlook eudora etc,  only shell or emacs commands..now my
> question: somewhere in its docs dreamhost tells me "mail.mydomain.com"
> (or in this case "mail.harelbarzilai.org") is the pop mail server..but
> dont' I somehow need to tell gnus to go looking at ~/Maildir/ for mail?
> I'm running gnus from inside emacs, of course and emacs from the shell,
> and the shell I'm accessing via ssh via a simple text terminal
> program..I know the web browser says it can't find
> mail.harelbarzilai.org....so pardon me if I'm confused
> but since dreamhost (though ways I don't know and have never needed to
> know) have all my
> incoming mail delivered to /home/username/Maildir/ also known as
> ~/Maildir/  , for
> each "user" I create for my account, don't I need to just tell gnus to
> go look at ~/Maildir?
> I think by default it looks in (and/or creates) ~/Mail/ ...how can I
> change this to ~/Maildir?
>
> Since the link is broken and I don't know elisp formatting I'd need the
> exact line to copy
> paste into .gnus.el instead of the above "frumple" example... Sorry if
> I'm missing something
> but I've read the my.gnus.org tutorial chapter 7 entirely though
> including 7.2 (and
> earlier portions which gave user-mail-address etc) and need this last
> piece to finish
> the set-up of .gnus.el for reading email, it seems.
> 
> Wishing everyone a safe and fulfilling 2007 :-)
> 
> Harel

Re: Learning gnus for email only

[Reiner Steib]

[ Please don't top-post and please try to write more carefully in
  order to make your text more readable. ]

On Tue, Jan 02 2007, harel barzilai wrote:

> b)  ssh into my shell  via plain text terminal ; run emacs from the
> shell ; use gnus from emacs (Which
> I want to just tell it to look at ~/Maildir/ )
>
> so there isn't  that big a difference..my comments were only re my
> mostly
> ignorance and lack of exp. w/pop...but looking at how similar b) is to

I'm not sure, but if the files are already in a maildir structure, you
can leave mail-sources set to nil.  You only need to add an nnmaildir
entry to `gnus-secondary-select-methods' (or `gnus-select-method').

I'd suggest the following setup:

(setq gnus-select-method '(nnnil ""))
(setq mail-sources nil)

(add-to-list
 'gnus-secondary-select-methods
 '(nnmaildir "test"
 	     (directory "~/Maildir")
 	     (create-directory "../foo")
 	     (directory-files nnheader-directory-files-safe)
 	     (get-new-mail nil)))

I'm not sure about the correct server parameter (I don't use maildir).
Please read (info "(gnus)Maildir") first (and backup your mail before
experimenting).

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Learning gnus for email only

[harel barzilai]

Reiner Steib wrote:

> I'm not sure, but if the files are already in a maildir structure, you
> can leave mail-sources set to nil.  You only need to add an nnmaildir
> entry to `gnus-secondary-select-methods' (or `gnus-select-method').
>
> I'd suggest the following setup:
>
> (setq gnus-select-method '(nnnil ""))
> (setq mail-sources nil)
>
> (add-to-list
>  'gnus-secondary-select-methods
>  '(nnmaildir "test"
>  	     (directory "~/Maildir")
>  	     (create-directory "../foo")
>  	     (directory-files nnheader-directory-files-safe)
>  	     (get-new-mail nil)))

Thanks, but it's not clear to me what you're suggesting I create as
"foo"?

> I'm not sure about the correct server parameter (I don't use maildir).

Hmm, what does this have to do with servers? I thought we are just
trying to tell gnus *not* to look on any server but just to know which
local
files/directories to look for, to find email messages?

Yes, I'm using a test account "user_a" rather than my usual one,
so it has a separate mailbox so if something goes wrong with this
attempt to learn to  use gnus for email reading, I won't lose my
regular account's email..

> Please read (info "(gnus)Maildir") first (and backup your mail before
> experimenting).

Ok..I'm not very familiar with info but I'm managing... "(gnu)Maildir"
was not found but the "s"
or "search" feature in info, when applied to "maildir" seems to have
found the right item,
which is included below for the benefit of others who might find
themselves in a similar spot..as well as to get confirmation if this
looks right:

..under Getting Mail, then Mail Sources, then Mail Source
Specifications..then searching for Maildir" again within that page, one
finds info telling us that:

<begin quote>================

  Keywords:

    `:path'
          The path of the directory where the mails are stored.  The
          default is taken from the `MAILDIR' environment variable or
          `~/Maildir/'.

    `:subdirs'
          The subdirectories of the Maildir.  The default is `("new"
          "cur")'.

          You can also get mails from remote hosts (because maildirs
          don't suffer from locking problems).

     Two example maildir mail sources:

          (maildir :path "/home/user-name/Maildir/"
                   :subdirs ("cur" "new"))

          (maildir :path "/user@remotehost.org:~/Maildir/"
                   :subdirs ("new"))

<end quote>========================

So it looks like I'm to put

    (maildir :path "/home/user_a/Maildir/"
                   :subdirs ("cur" "new"))

in my .gnus.el ?

Slackat perhaps the above (plus Reiner's earlier lines for my .gnus.el)
are the
way to go instead of,

(setq nnmail-spool-file '(
   (file :path "/var/spool/mail/inconnu")
   (directory :path "/home/inconnu/Mail")
)

then? Well I hope this works. This is a humbling experience. Even you
experts don't find these to be trivial questions. But it doesn't look
like there are any other Maildir capable mail readers that
are automatically bundled with emacs, that are any more 'ready for
prime time' (for us
non-experts ;-) than gnus...so it looks like it's the learning curve
for gnus or else
try to install a package from scratch (or else look into
emacs-anti-spam-package for rmail..)
crossing fingers yet again.. I ran byte-compile of .gnus.el and got:

  ** assignment to free variable mail-sources
  ** `"cur"' is a malformed function
  ** The function `maildir' is not known to be defined.

My entire .gnus is

<begin quote>==========

(setq gnus-select-method '(nnnil ""))
(setq mail-sources nil)

(add-to-list
 'gnus-secondary-select-methods
 '(nnmaildir "test"
             (directory "~/Maildir")
             (create-directory "../foo")
             (directory-files nnheader-directory-files-safe)
             (get-new-mail nil)))

  (maildir :path "/home/user_a/Maildir/"
                   :subdirs ("cur" "new"))

<end quote>==========

From

  ** assignment to free variable mail-sources

it appears not to like

(setq mail-sources nil)

and from the second two lines it doesn't seem to like my putting

(maildir :path "/home/user_a/Maildir/"
                   :subdirs ("cur" "new"))


in my .gnus. Wait, based on an earlier example

 (setq mail-sources '((pop :server "frumple" :user "jrl")))


maybe I'm supposed to include  (lets call this item [[1]]

  (setq mail-sources '(maildir :path "/home/user_a/Maildir/"
                   :subdirs ("cur" "new")))

in my .gnus instead? but then that would be instead of the (setq
mail-sources nil)
you suggested Reiner? Well I [[1]]
instead of  (setq mail-sources nil)  and did another byte-compile and
I'm not
down to 1 error rather than three:

  ** assignment to free variable mail-sources

(I get the same error if I *keep* your (setq mail-sources nil) but
remove item [[1]]..but maybe I am still missing the part about "server"
you mentioned or else still need to replace "foo" by...?)

?? Harel

= = = = =

> [ Please don't top-post

I do not do this during the >95% of the time I reply to others. During
the <5% of the time
I need to add a short correction/clarification to my own note, it seems
like the right courtesy to those
who get newsgroups forwarded to (non gnus, simple) email, but it
doesn't seem worthwhile
to argue over the <5%...

> and please try to write more carefully in order to make your text more readable. ]

 Sorry, it's ugly to my own eyes too but was not mychoosing..I have no
idea when or why groups.google's posting messes up carriage returns, do
you? This is why I like to stay
inside emacs for most of what I do online..usenet is one of the areas
where (for now) I'm
stuck with typing into text boxes in browsers..I could try
to compose reply in Emacs, after "C-x f  50" then "fill-region" to see
if that's
better.

with C-x f 50 lets see how google sends it out to usenet, better,
worse, or the same? Let's try:

I have no idea when or why groups.google's posting
messes  up carriage returns,  do you?  Sorry, it's
ugly to  my own eyes too  but was not  my doing. I
could try to compose  reply in Emacs, after "C-x f
50" then "fill-region" to see if that's better.

Of course if/when I master the basics of gnus for email I can try
learning  it for usenet instead of google.

Re: Learning gnus for email only

[Springfield]

Hi harel,

"harel barzilai" <barzilai@gmail.com> writes:

> Reiner Steib wrote:
>
>> I'd suggest the following setup:
>>
>> (setq gnus-select-method '(nnnil ""))
>> (setq mail-sources nil)
>>
>> (add-to-list
>>  'gnus-secondary-select-methods
>>  '(nnmaildir "test"
>>  	     (directory "~/Maildir")
>>  	     (create-directory "../foo")
>>  	     (directory-files nnheader-directory-files-safe)
>>  	     (get-new-mail nil)))
>
> Thanks, but it's not clear to me what you're suggesting I create as
> "foo"?
>
>> I'm not sure about the correct server parameter (I don't use maildir).
>
> Hmm, what does this have to do with servers? I thought we are just
> trying to tell gnus *not* to look on any server but just to know which
> local
> files/directories to look for, to find email messages?

I use this with a late gnus:

(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
      '((nnmaildir ""
                   (directory "~/.nnmaildir/")
                   (expire-age never)
                   )))

In ~/.nnmaildir/ I have symlinks to my Maildirs like this:

catalyst@lists.rawmode.org -> /home/xxx/Mail/lists/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org
emacs-devel@gnu.org -> /home/xxx/Mail/lists/emacs-devel@gnu.org
personal -> /home/xxx/Mail/personal

This is ideal as I like procmail to process my emails rather than
splitting.

Is this what you're looking for?

Cheers,
Spring

Re: Learning gnus for email only

[Reiner Steib]

On Fri, Jan 05 2007, harel barzilai wrote:

> Reiner Steib wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure, but if the files are already in a maildir structure, you
>> can leave mail-sources set to nil.  You only need to add an nnmaildir
>> entry to `gnus-secondary-select-methods' (or `gnus-select-method').
>>
>> I'd suggest the following setup:
>>
>> (setq gnus-select-method '(nnnil ""))
>> (setq mail-sources nil)
>>
>> (add-to-list
>>  'gnus-secondary-select-methods
>>  '(nnmaildir "test"
>>  	     (directory "~/Maildir")
>>  	     (create-directory "../foo")
>>  	     (directory-files nnheader-directory-files-safe)
>>  	     (get-new-mail nil)))
>
> Thanks, but it's not clear to me what you're suggesting I create as
> "foo"?
>
>> I'm not sure about the correct server parameter (I don't use maildir).
>
> Hmm, what does this have to do with servers? 

I'm talking about a "server parameter" or "server variable" in Gnus
terminology:

(info "(gnus)Server Variables"); <== Press C-x C-e here!
or:
`C-h i d m gnus RET m Server SPC Variables RET'

So in the example above, `directory', `create-directory',
`directory-files' and `get-new-mail' are server parameters.

> I thought we are just trying to tell gnus *not* to look on any
> server but just to know which local files/directories to look for,
> to find email messages?

Correct.  (At least this is my understand of what you'd like to
achieve.)

> Yes, I'm using a test account "user_a" rather than my usual one,
> so it has a separate mailbox so if something goes wrong with this
> attempt to learn to  use gnus for email reading, I won't lose my
> regular account's email..
>
>> Please read (info "(gnus)Maildir") first (and backup your mail before
>> experimenting).
>
> Ok..I'm not very familiar with info but I'm managing... "(gnu)Maildir"
> was not found but the "s"
> or "search" feature in info, when applied to "maildir" seems to have
> found the right item,
> which is included below for the benefit of others who might find
> themselves in a similar spot..as well as to get confirmation if this
> looks right:
>
> ..under Getting Mail, then Mail Sources, then Mail Source
> Specifications..then searching for Maildir" again within that page, one
> finds info telling us that:

No, that is the node
  (info "(gnus)Mail Source Specifiers"); <== Press C-x C-e here!
  `C-h i d m gnus RET m Mail SPC Source SPC Specifiers RET'.

It starts with...

,----[ (info "(gnus)Mail Source Specifiers") ]
| 6.3.4.1 Mail Source Specifiers
| ..............................
| 
| You tell Gnus how to fetch mail by setting `mail-sources' (*note
| Fetching Mail::) to a "mail source specifier".
`----

... so it talks about "how to fetch mail".  You don't want to fetch
mail, though (again: at least this is my understand of what you'd like
to achieve).

> <begin quote>================
>
>   Keywords:
>
>     `:path'
>           The path of the directory where the mails are stored.  The
>           default is taken from the `MAILDIR' environment variable or
>           `~/Maildir/'.
[...]
> <end quote>========================
>
> So it looks like I'm to put
>
>     (maildir :path "/home/user_a/Maildir/"
>                    :subdirs ("cur" "new"))
>
> in my .gnus.el ?

No.  You don't want to fetch mail.

[Anyhow, even if you would want to, it should be
  (add-to-list 'mail-sources '(maildir ...))
instead.]

> Slackat perhaps the above (plus Reiner's earlier lines for my .gnus.el)
> are the
> way to go instead of,
>
> (setq nnmail-spool-file '(

No, no, no:

,----[ <f1> v nnmail-spool-file RET ]
| nnmail-spool-file is a variable defined in `nnmail'.
| Its value is ((file))
| 
| Documentation:
| *Where the mail backends will look for incoming mail.
| This variable is a list of mail source specifiers.
| This variable is obsolete; `mail-sources' should be used instead.
`----

Note the last line!

> then? Well I hope this works. This is a humbling experience. Even you
> experts don't find these to be trivial questions. 

I also find it difficult to give you the right advice.  That means
that we need to improve the manual, because it's sufficiently clear.
In (info "(gnus)Maildir"), we really should add some examples for
simple setups.  I'd appreciate if maildir users would contribute some
setup examples.  (If it's longer than 10-15 lines, we may need a
copyright assignment to be able to include it in the Gnus manual.)

> But it doesn't look like there are any other Maildir capable mail
> readers that are automatically bundled with emacs, that are any more
> 'ready for prime time' (for us non-experts ;-) than gnus...so it
> looks like it's the learning curve for gnus or else try to install a
> package from scratch (or else look into emacs-anti-spam-package for
> rmail..)  crossing fingers yet again.. I ran byte-compile of
> .gnus.el and got:

I strongly suggest *not* to byte-compile .emacs and .gnus.el!

>   ** assignment to free variable mail-sources
>   ** `"cur"' is a malformed function
>   ** The function `maildir' is not known to be defined.

See above.

> My entire .gnus is
>
> <begin quote>==========
>
> (setq gnus-select-method '(nnnil ""))
> (setq mail-sources nil)
>
> (add-to-list
>  'gnus-secondary-select-methods
>  '(nnmaildir "test"
>              (directory "~/Maildir")
>              (create-directory "../foo")
>              (directory-files nnheader-directory-files-safe)
>              (get-new-mail nil)))

Remove this:

>   (maildir :path "/home/user_a/Maildir/"
>                    :subdirs ("cur" "new"))
>
> <end quote>==========


> I have no idea when or why groups.google's posting
> messes  up carriage returns,  do you?  Sorry, it's
> ugly to  my own eyes too  but was not  my doing. I
> could try to compose  reply in Emacs, after "C-x f
> 50" then "fill-region" to see if that's better.

Better.  (You may use 70 instead of 50).

> Of course if/when I master the basics of gnus for email I can try
> learning  it for usenet instead of google.

I hope so.  For gnu.emacs.gnus, you may also use Gmane (run by Lars,
the Gnus author) to post and reply instead:
<http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.user/8460>

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Learning gnus for email only

[harel barzilai]

Hi Springfield and Reiner

Springfield wrote:
> Hi harel,
>
> "harel barzilai" <barzilai@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Reiner Steib wrote:
> >
> >> I'd suggest the following setup:
> >>
> >> (setq gnus-select-method '(nnnil ""))
> >> (setq mail-sources nil)
> >>
> >> (add-to-list
> >>  'gnus-secondary-select-methods
> >>  '(nnmaildir "test"
> >>  	     (directory "~/Maildir")
> >>  	     (create-directory "../foo")
> >>  	     (directory-files nnheader-directory-files-safe)
> >>  	     (get-new-mail nil)))
> >
> > Thanks, but it's not clear to me what you're suggesting I create as
> > "foo"?
> >
> >> I'm not sure about the correct server parameter (I don't use maildir).
> >
> > Hmm, what does this have to do with servers? I thought we are just
> > trying to tell gnus *not* to look on any server but just to know which
> > local
> > files/directories to look for, to find email messages?
>
> I use this with a late gnus:

By "late" gnus do you mean a recent version? The version
I am given by dreamhost.com is 5.9.0

> (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
>       '((nnmaildir ""
>                    (directory "~/.nnmaildir/")
>                    (expire-age never)
>                    )))

> In ~/.nnmaildir/ I have symlinks to my Maildirs like this:
>
> catalyst@lists.rawmode.org -> /home/xxx/Mail/lists/catalyst@lists.rawmode.org
> emacs-devel@gnu.org -> /home/xxx/Mail/lists/emacs-devel@gnu.org
> personal -> /home/xxx/Mail/personal
>
> This is ideal as I like procmail to process my emails rather than
> splitting.

I am very new to gnus and was confused by this. What I *think* you are
saying is that gnus has a method called "splitting" but that you do not
use
the built-in gnus feature called "splitting" and that you use procmail
instead of gnus,
is that what you are saying?

If so, I have no personal preference, except I want the simplest
possible
thing, and I am not familiar with procmail (it is not a bad idea to
assume I know zero except for basic
use of Gnu emacs itself including rmail).

If I leave my ..nmaildir empty will your setup still work? If not, then
that's a problem since
I don't know how to put procmail directions in there (and I do not need
to learn how to process
mailing lists now..I am extremely eager to just get some basic email
functioning; I can always
work on learning more and post questions here, in a few months about
email list and procmail
versus 'splitting')

I'm also confused about what exactly to put in my .gnus, which code to
add and which to replace so I need an entire start-to-finish .gnus.el
...here is the one I have now (Reiner, note the difference too)

===start of file===

(setq gnus-select-method '(nnnil ""))
(setq mail-sources nil)

(add-to-list
 'gnus-secondary-select-methods
 '(nnmaildir "test"
             (directory "~/Maildir")
             (create-directory "../foo")
             (directory-files nnheader-directory-files-safe)
             (get-new-mail nil)))

;;  (maildir :path "/home/user_a/Maildir/"
;;                   :subdirs ("cur" "new"))

(setq mail-sources '(maildir :path "/home/user_a/Maildir/"
                  :subdirs ("cur" "new")))

===end of file===


In particular I had already removed the part

>   (maildir :path "/home/user_a/Maildir/"
>                    :subdirs ("cur" "new"))

and replaced it with what I labeled [[1]] in my previous post. The
[[1]] is the last two lines
in the above .gnus.el

Since I don't know any elisp (I am not counting copy/paste inclusions)
I don't
know how to get info about the code other than "byte-compile" (also
they tell you to byte-compile to make things faster, but maybe there
is a reason to NOT do this to .emacs and .gnus  if so what are the
reasons? And, how can I get the same "test to see if there are error
messages" so I can tell you what those messages are, what method
instead of byte-compile? I think it's something like C-x C-e but for
a whole buffer,  or will I just put the entire .gnus.el in a
"*scratch*"
buffer (which says "(Lisp interaction)") and C-x C-e?)

If I am supposed to use something like

 (add-to-list 'mail-sources '(maildir ...))

is that INSTEAD of

(setq mail-sources '(maildir :path "/home/user_a/Maildir/"
                  :subdirs ("cur" "new")))

and if so what is the entire command, what do I put instead of "..."?

I unfortunately cannot learn elisp extensively, I just need basic code
to copy/paste
into my entire .gnus.el and have a running, working email environment.
I understand
Reiner that you do not use the Maildir. I do *not* fully understand
what you said
in your most recent email but I think I partially understand it. I
think you
are saying that in order to know what do put instead of "foo" I need
to learn about  these server variable entities that "go with" maildir.

Honestly my head is throbbing and if I were not on
(semi)break between semesters I would
have given up a while ago, I am trying very hard to follow. Gnus
 is not something that your average person who is
"very comfortable with emacs but nothing else"can simply
copy/paste a .gnus.el from the www and be done...but we
have all invested a lot and it seems we just need a little Maildir
info and then all should be ready.

>So in the example above, `directory', `create-directory',
>`directory-files' and `get-new-mail' are server parameters

ok I did

(info "(gnus)Server Variables"); <== Press C-x C-e here!

but honestly this is interesting, but it is way beyond what I have time
to learn right now
the entire elisp/gnus aspects. What I *did* learn is that I have to set
some
entities to ~/Maildir/ and that it is NOT enough to only set one thing
only. Other
than that I'm lost.

Again I do not have

;;  (maildir :path "/home/user_a/Maildir/"
;;                   :subdirs ("cur" "new"))


in my .gnus.el any more, and did not have it last night either, but
still
am getting

Compiling file /home/user_a/.gnus.el at Sat Jan  6 00:16:06 2007
  ** assignment to free variable mail-sources

so that's my first question and what to put instead of "foo" is the
other question. Could
someone, anyone, post a start-to-finish .gnus.el that I could use, by
modifying
the one I currently have, which I'll include again below? I really
don't want to give
up on gnus but I have a very simple need (using gnus for
reading/sending email
only, and am forced to use Maildir format for email that my
dreamhost.com puts in my ~/Maildir/ direcotry for me) for the time
being. Thanks,
Harel
P.S. thanks Reiner also for the news-reader alternative for the gnus
group I will look into it next
my .gnus.el below


===start

(setq gnus-select-method '(nnnil ""))
(setq mail-sources nil)

(add-to-list
 'gnus-secondary-select-methods
 '(nnmaildir "test"
             (directory "~/Maildir")
             (create-directory "../foo")
             (directory-files nnheader-directory-files-safe)
             (get-new-mail nil)))

;;  (maildir :path "/home/user_a/Maildir/"
;;                   :subdirs ("cur" "new"))

(setq mail-sources '(maildir :path "/home/user_a/Maildir/"
                  :subdirs ("cur" "new")))


==end

Re: Learning gnus for email only

[Reiner Steib]

On Sat, Jan 06 2007, harel barzilai wrote:

> By "late" gnus do you mean a recent version? The version
> I am given by dreamhost.com is 5.9.0

Gnus 5.9 (there is no "Gnus 5.9.0") neither has support for nnmaildir
nor for nnnil.  You need to upgrade to Gnus 5.10.8 or Emacs 22
(pretest) first.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Learning gnus for email only

[Slackrat]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+from-uce@imap.cc> writes:

> Gnus 5.9 (there is no "Gnus 5.9.0") neither has support for nnmaildir
> nor for nnnil.  You need to upgrade to Gnus 5.10.8 or Emacs 22

Hmmmm.

User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.4

-- 
Slackrat
AKA Bill Henderson
[No _4Q_ for direct email]
emacs/gnus config [http://azurservers.com/gnus]

Re: Learning gnus for email only

[Reiner Steib]

On Sat, Jan 06 2007, Slackrat wrote:

> User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.4

I stand corrected.  I though we used the same format as we do now in
Emacs 22:

| User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.90 (gnu/linux)

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Emacs Mailer Options

[harel barzilai]

Giorgos, I actually understood what you said, this is not
automatic among all the folks here who knew elisp and other
things I don't...I'll file that away...

But I have to admit I've not followed this thread (until today)
for the past 4-5 days while I worked on  rmail-spam-filter....I
had already invested more than 10 hours trying to get gnus
to just read basic email for me and there was no light at the end
of the tunnel yet...and apparently the 2005 version of gnus wasn't
new enough (sorry, as I said earlier, dreamhost won't custom install
for me so I'd just have to wait until they update it...and that
wasn't the only part of using gnus that was far
from  "ready out of the box")

rmail-spam-filter isn't 100% ready-out-of-the-box either
I have to admit but as of tonight I finally got it working...except
it marks everything as spam... but I think we (Alan Wehmann
has been extremely helpful by private email) will get that ironed out..
so it looks like a solution.. (one thing I did discover is:
you probably do NOT want to have a .emacs.elc to get
rmail-spam-filter working via customize-group!)

 I did learn the customize feature for the first time, which
took some reading, but even with that and a half dozen
bumps on the road the light is still closer at the end
of the tunnel, for rsf (rmail-spam-filter), than it was with gnus..

If/when I do, hopefully, get rsf  working, I'll send a short
report to the gnu emacs community with a plea on making
out of the box spam filtering built into emacs...Here's the
short version of that plea: spam has been around for a good decade,
and spam as a "big enough "problem is a good half-decade old...it's
therefore high enough a priority to have tools to deal with that which
folks who don't know elisp (even fact even folks who know less
emacs than I do -- say, folks who have just learned rmail basics
for the first time) should be able to use...Any other reports
which I may have of helpful things discovered or dangers
(e.g. possibly .emacs.elc) to avoid, which might be helpful to
others in the future, I'll include as well. Needless to say
I am grateful to the gnus community people who took
the time to try to help me, even if it didn't work
out for me given my lack of elisp background
nor extensive  linux background but just basic "used emacs
since 1989" day by day experience.

Harel

 Keramidas wrote:
> On 5 Jan 2007 21:51:11 -0800, barzilai@gmail.com wrote:
> > I guess I still just wget
> >
> > http://www.deas.harvard.edu/climate/eli/Downloads/rmail-spam-filter/rmail-spam-filter.el
> >
> > and put
> >
> > (load "/home/harel/rmail-spam-filter.el")
> >
> > in my .emacs [...]
>
> FYI, a nice 'trick' when you have a personalized collection of elisp
> source files, which you want Emacs to know about, isto use something
> like:
>
>     (add-to-list 'load-path "~/elisp")
>
> Then you can put elisp source files in ~/elisp instead of cluttering
> your HOME directory too much.